Android makers shift focus from under-display fingerprint readers to 3D sensing after iPho...

Posted:
in General Discussion edited October 2017
According to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, Android hardware makers have turned their attention away from under-display fingerprint readers and toward 3D sensing technologies like those Apple debuted with iPhone X, a flip-flop designed to capture customer sentiment.




Kuo in a report seen by AppleInsider says inquiries into potential 3D sensing solutions from Android brand vendors have at least tripled since Apple unveiled its TrueDepth camera system and Face ID in September.

Prior to the announcement of iPhone X, the Android camp was focused on delivering incremental advancements in optical fingerprint recognition technology, namely systems capable of operating through a device screen. Apple, too, was rumored to be working on its own sub-screen Touch ID solution, though the company ultimately opted for facial recognition with Face ID.

Rumors leading up to September's iPhone event suggested Apple chose to integrate a standalone 3D sensing system only after it ran into technical issues with an embedded Touch ID system. Reports later claimed the company has been "all-in" on Face ID replacing Touch ID for over a year.

In any case, Android makers are looking to cash in on the high gross margins a revolutionary experience like 3D sensing can fetch, Kuo says. Compared to facial recognition, notably facial recognition of the variety introduced by Apple, traditional capacitive sensing systems are now seen as mere spec upgrades.

"3D sensing not only enables facial recognition in security applications and allows users to create fun expressions like Apple's Animoji, on a more important level, it is a key factor in the development of AR," Kuo writes. "We therefore believe brand vendors are willing to spend more for related components."

To that end, smartphone makers working with Google's operating system are likely to turn to 3D sensing products from Qualcomm and Himax, Orbbec, and Mantis Vision. The Qualcomm-Himax solution is attracting the most attention as the system is more mature than those offered by other component manufacturers.

With smartphone brands moving away from fingerprint biometrics and toward 3D sensing, Kuo expects yearly shipments of Android devices equipped with 3D sensing components to outnumber those with under-display optical recognition by two or three times over the next two to three years.

In addition to increased interest, the dramatic proliferation of 3D sensing technology will in large part be driven by its compatibility with LCD screens. As Kuo explains, under-display fingerprint recognition systems are for the most part exclusive to OLED panels. As that market is dominated by Samsung, availability of OLED components will remain capped.

In a separate note, Kuo says Samsung has decided to integrate a compact image sensor (CIS) design instead of a "CIS+independent light emitter" arrangement for a sub-screen fingerprint solution set to debut in its Galaxy Note 9, due out in the second half of 2018.

Unlike Chinese OEMs that use rigid OLED panels, which in turn require a "CIS+independent light emitter" system to facilitate fingerprint solutions, Samsung manufactures its own flexible OLED displays and can customize their hardware to suit CIS-only designs. As such, companies looking to integrate under-display optical fingerprint recognition systems in their products will have to rely on suppliers like Synaptics and Goodix.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 92
    EngDevEngDev Posts: 76member

    Qualcomm, on August 15th 2017, announced that their next generation Spectra ISP was going to have depth sensing capabilities and was to be integrated into flagship Snapdragon chips in 2018. So I don't see this coming as a surprise given it will be in the majority of Android flagships next year (of course, the OEMs still need to implement the required hardware).
    Today we’re unveiling our 2nd generation Qualcomm Spectra ISP. It features a completely new architecture that is engineered to increase image quality and speed, but more importantly, it’s designed for depth sensing in high-resolution and high accuracy — at very low-power. 
    Source: Qualcomm


    edited October 2017 gatorguyrepressthisktappe
  • Reply 2 of 92
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    More regurgitated marketing material huh EngDev. 
    If I wanted to get Android related marketing material, I'd just google/youtube it, like you did.

    Qualcomm basically said everything invented in tech in the last 20 years in their fracking marketing material
    just before the Apple fall announcements so excuse me, if I don't care what they claim to be doing.

    When they get their ass kicked all over the place by Samsung and Apple, they won't have much cash to put into R&D to put down; the gravy train has stopped.



    tmaychialkruppmagman1979StrangeDaysrepressthiswatto_cobraRacerhomieX
  • Reply 3 of 92
    I figured if consumers take to using Apple's 3D Face ID method of login, there will be plenty of Android manufacturers following with their flagship models (as those modules will be expensive). So, while Apple is getting all the hate of moving from the fingerprint sensor, the copycat Android smartphone makers won't have to go through the same BS Apple is going through. Just like the removal of the headphone jack. Now, each time a smartphone manufacturer removes the headphone jack it gets accepted more with less whining and crying about it being gone. Apple had to take all the nasty comments because they were the nearly the first (Moto was the first) and largest smartphone manufacturer to dump the audio jack. Hardly any whining about the Google Pixel 2 missing the audio jack. Definitely, nothing compared to what nastiness was tossed at the iPhone.

    Apple always makes a nice fat target for first hate then once the hate dies down, all the other smartphone makers jump onboard and follow Apple with only minimum fuss from the crappy critics. The idiots just don't get it. Things change in tech and some company has to be the first mover. I still believe most of the less-expensive smartphones will keep the touch sensor. Nothing wrong with using the fingerprint reader method. It works great but some know-it-all biatch will say it's outdated and all smartphones must use another method just to keep up with Apple. It seems as though Apple isn't allowed to do anything different without some chorus of boos and hisses being tossed in their direction.
    edited October 2017 lkruppbadmonkrandominternetpersonmagman1979jbdragoncornchipwatto_cobramacguistarwarsleavingthebigg
  • Reply 4 of 92
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    According to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, Android hardware makers have turned their attention away from under-display fingerprint readers and toward 3D sensing technologies like those Apple debuted with iPhone X, a flip-flop designed to capture customer sentiment. 
    This guys notes get more ridiculous every day. Just a bunch of gibberish. Where is the customer sentiment for 3D sensing? Most consumers haven’t used Face ID yet and AR is in its infancy. Nobody knows yet if this is going to be the next big thing everyone has to have. 
    randominternetpersoncropr
  • Reply 5 of 92
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,034member
    Suddenly, the fingerprint sensor looks outdated on phones...lol. 3D facial recognition is a new sheriff in town. 
    Next android phones will have 3D facial recognition and the notch too...I’m almost certain.
    tmaychialkruppmagman1979jbdragonwatto_cobraRacerhomieXjony0
  • Reply 6 of 92
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    fallenjt said:
    Suddenly, the fingerprint sensor looks outdated on phones...lol. 3D facial recognition is a new sheriff in town. 
    Next android phones will have 3D facial recognition and the notch too...I’m almost certain.
    Oh no, my friend. 

    Samsung is set to outdo Apple yet again!

    They’re going to put the notch in the centre of the screen!

    Copy Apple? My ass!


    tmayjahbladelkruppcalimagman1979StrangeDaysrepressthisevilutionwatto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 7 of 92
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,073member
    The power of Apple's current and future SoC's are going to become ever more apparent as Android running phones struggle to implement innovations with under powered Snapdragons. Hell, they can't even manage 1080p at 240 fps, how are they going to run heavy duty 3D sensing.
    edited October 2017 magman1979caliwatto_cobraRacerhomieX
  • Reply 8 of 92
    it'd make a lot more sense to put face id in the macbooks.  then they can get rid of the shiny touch id button that sticks out like a sore thumb, as well as that gimmicky touch bar.
    edited October 2017 jbdragon
  • Reply 9 of 92
    Wait till 2nd gen for me in iPhone 3D!
    jbdragonRacerhomieX
  • Reply 10 of 92
    jcallows said:
    it'll make a lot more sense to put face id in the macbooks.  then they can get rid of the shiny touch id button sticks out like a sore thumb, as well as that gimmicky touch bar.
    I use the touch ID and touch bar all the time, I like it.
    magman1979bb-15cornchipwatto_cobrabluefire1pscooter63jony0
  • Reply 11 of 92
    The power of Apple's current and future SoC's are going to become ever more apparent as Android running phones struggle to implement innovations with under powered Snapdragons. Hell, they can't even manage 1080p at 240 fps, how are they going to run heavy duty 3D sensing.
    And how many people need 1080p at 240fps?
    andrewj5790gatorguy
  • Reply 12 of 92
    jcallows said:
    it'll make a lot more sense to put face id in the macbooks.  then they can get rid of the shiny touch id button sticks out like a sore thumb, as well as that gimmicky touch bar.
    I use the touch ID and touch bar all the time, I like it.
    Ahhhhh... but he doesn’t, therefore, it just be a disaster that everyone dislikes. Also, a bunch of stodgy Mac pundits like Marco Arment, et. al. dislike it, so he knows he is right and your like of the touch bar is invalid. 
    edited October 2017 slprescottcalirandominternetpersonmagman1979StrangeDayspatchythepiratejony0
  • Reply 13 of 92
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,461member
    I figured if consumers take to using Apple's 3D Face ID method of login, there will be plenty of Android manufacturers following with their flagship models (as those modules will be expensive). So, while Apple is getting all the hate of moving from the fingerprint sensor, the copycat Android smartphone makers won't have to go through the same BS Apple is going through. Just like the removal of the headphone jack. Now, each time a smartphone manufacturer removes the headphone jack it gets accepted more with less whining and crying about it being gone. Apple had to take all the nasty comments because they were the nearly the first (Moto was the first) and largest smartphone manufacturer to dump the audio jack. Hardly any whining about the Google Pixel 2 missing the audio jack. Definitely, nothing compared to what nastiness was tossed at the iPhone.

    Apple always makes a nice fat target for first hate then once the hate dies down, all the other smartphone makers jump onboard and follow Apple with only minimum fuss from the crappy critics. The idiots just don't get it. Things change in tech and some company has to be the first mover. I still believe most of the less-expensive smartphones will keep the touch sensor. Nothing wrong with using the fingerprint reader method. It works great but some know-it-all biatch will say it's outdated and all smartphones must use another method just to keep up with Apple. It seems as though Apple isn't allowed to do anything different without some chorus of boos and hisses being tossed in their direction.

    I'm hoping all the naysayers that live here will read your comment. Remember Steve Ballmer's keyboard snark over the iPhone when it was released. Following your explanation let's make a prediction about the much maligned "notch." When the competition puts the 3D cameras in and they have a notch too I wonder how much howling will go on then. Oh, and the headphone jack? I read a c|net review of the Pixel 2 and the absence of a headphone jack was dealt with in one sentence followed by "but it's waterproof." 
    radarthekatbadmonkmagman1979patchythepiratejbdragonwatto_cobrakiltedgreenjony0
  • Reply 14 of 92
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,461member
    The power of Apple's current and future SoC's are going to become ever more apparent as Android running phones struggle to implement innovations with under powered Snapdragons. Hell, they can't even manage 1080p at 240 fps, how are they going to run heavy duty 3D sensing.
    And how many people need 1080p at 240fps?

    A lot of people, like those who like the slow motion videos it supports.
    calimagman1979analogjackjbdragonericthehalfbeewatto_cobrapscooter63jony0
  • Reply 15 of 92
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,172member
    fallenjt said:
    Suddenly, the fingerprint sensor looks outdated on phones...lol. 3D facial recognition is a new sheriff in town. 
    Next android phones will have 3D facial recognition and the notch too...I’m almost certain.
    But yet people still say Apple is a follower when it comes to technology. They can't innovate anything! You know, Samsung had facial recognition before Apple so that just means Apple followed Samsung, right?
    magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 92
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,172member
    jcallows said:
    it'd make a lot more sense to put face id in the macbooks.  then they can get rid of the shiny touch id button that sticks out like a sore thumb, as well as that gimmicky touch bar.
    I would say this is coming to the Mac at some point. We'll see how successful this is, but it does make sense since the camera is already facing you. This would work for almost any Mac, and Apple could even implement it into their own displays that they're apparently working on if they can keep it secure getting from the display to the Mac. 
    jcallowswatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 92
    jcallows said:
    it'd make a lot more sense to put face id in the macbooks.  then they can get rid of the shiny touch id button that sticks out like a sore thumb, as well as that gimmicky touch bar.
    I think it is inevitable that Face ID comes to Macs. If the supply constraint of these modules is a bad as being reported they are probably just holding off until then can get that under control. 
    jcallowsrich gregorywatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 92
    rob53rob53 Posts: 2,646member
    The problem I see with Android phones containing facial recognition is except for the very top end implementations they will work part of the time and be very easy to bypass. This will cause the same kickback from government officials who think everyone uses the same design and chips. Look at Apple Pay. Samsung comes out with it's fake magnetic strip copier and merchants think they can get away with not upgrading their hardware (yes, this is still an issue). Once cheap Android phones come out, I'm sure Samsung will use the same magnetic strip garbage and merchants will again see no reason to upgrade their equipment.

    I'd like to see Apple develop and deploy a restaurant handheld POS device (I know there are some) that uses Apple Pay Cash along with iBeacon or whatever else they can develop so people can pay at the table without giving the server their credit cards. (None of the restaurants in my area have anything close to this and places that have those weird tablet devices at the table are not something I would use.)
    calimobirdpatchythepiratewatto_cobrapscooter63jony0
  • Reply 19 of 92
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,439member
    So how long will it be until retail purchases will be made with some form of 3D sensing? Do you really want credit card, banks and corporations to have a 3D image of your face on record? I have a iPhone 6s and don't plan on replacing for years to come unless it is lost or damaged. I assume iOS for iPhone X and those to follow will still allow for passcode verification. 
  • Reply 20 of 92
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,030member
    Hardly any whining about the Google Pixel 2 missing the audio jack.
    I agree with most of your statements and all of your general sentiment, but one point of content I have is the whining about the Pixel 2. I've seen a lot of bemoaning over its loss. While Google's HW sales isn't even in the same ballpark as Apple, they do have plenty of mindshare.


    The comments and rationalizations why the 3.5mm analog headphone jack should never go away are amazing… and depressing… and pathetic.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobrapscooter63
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