First look: Apple's bionic iPhone X with Face ID

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  • Reply 41 of 153
    bb-15 said:
    The Verge seemed to complain about Face ID outdoors. Any thoughts AI or they are just being picky?
    My thoughts; the Verge was being picky. 
    The Verge test in sunlight had the iPhone X at belt height next to the belt. That logically would be the edge of the range of the Face ID system. 
    After all, at belt height / next to the belt this is testing the unlock system while looking up at a person's chin. 
    But this is not Chin ID. It is Face ID.
    Logically, if in bright lighting, the iPhone X should be moved up to eye level so that the system can clearly recognize the face of the user.
    As far as I know the iPhone X will work at eye level even in bright sunlight.   
    I thought the 'exact' same thing.  Simply not using it right.  Also, by default, FaceID requires your attention in order to function for security purposes.  However, there is an option you can toggle off in settings that allows you to completely loosen it up and have it 'not' actually require your attention.  I'm guessing that option would cut down on failure rate, but also greatly increase unintended unlocks.
    netmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 153
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,510member
    bells said:
    flaneur said:
    mubaili said:
    Any scoop why Gruber got the snub? but congrats on moving up the Apple ladder. Looking forward to a in deep bashing on Android phones.
    Just checked his site. :o Not sure if he’s just being sarcastic or really didn’t get a review unit and is pissed about it. Casey Liss wrote a blog post giving his thoughts on Apple’s reasoning around X reviews.

    https://one37.net/blog/31/10/2017/pr

    There are a few things Gruber has complained about recently like the MacBook/Macbook Pro keyboards and he didn’t mince any words on his dislike of the notch (called it gross) so maybe this is Apple showing their displeasure.
    I kind of hope Gruber is getting smacked. He's become, to a certain extent, a "deeply worried" (his words re the keyboard) hand-wringer like Marco Arment. 

    There's a difference between level-headed criticism of Apple and this new style of apocalyptic Chicken-Little "worry" about Apple's "priorities."

    The latter spreads an unreasoned, emotional contagion of doubt about Apples's mind-set and future. This encourages the hater crowd, the piranhas of Wall Street, the ignorati among tech journalists, and could even spread into the ranks at Apple itself — where, after all, the Jobs project is just a shared vision — a vulnerable psychological stance, in other words — of how to force difficult advanced products into existence.


    I like Gruber. He clearly is an Apple fan, but I find his analysis fair. 
    I like Gruber too, and I think he often makes valid criticisms of Apple's choices. But there's this whiney disease that's been going around among the Apple bloggers like Arment or Siracusa that also seems to have infected Gruber from time to time. This is where they make some valid criticism and then extrapolate based on that to a blanket "Apple has lost its way" kind of "worry." (Watch for that word among them.)

    Logically, there's no basis for that extrapolation based on one or a few instances that they're annoyed by. They are projecting emotionally — "worried." I always want to say, for God's sake, shut up, stop being a baby, Apple is deeper than you realize and if there's an issue, they'll eventually straighten it out. The last instance I saw with Gruber was over the keyboard butterfly switch and its vulnerability to dust. I'll look it up if I have to.
    StrangeDayspatchythepiratenetmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 153
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,510member
    flaneur said:
    mubaili said:
    Any scoop why Gruber got the snub? but congrats on moving up the Apple ladder. Looking forward to a in deep bashing on Android phones.
    Just checked his site. :o Not sure if he’s just being sarcastic or really didn’t get a review unit and is pissed about it. Casey Liss wrote a blog post giving his thoughts on Apple’s reasoning around X reviews.

    https://one37.net/blog/31/10/2017/pr

    There are a few things Gruber has complained about recently like the MacBook/Macbook Pro keyboards and he didn’t mince any words on his dislike of the notch (called it gross) so maybe this is Apple showing their displeasure.
    I kind of hope Gruber is getting smacked. He's become, to a certain extent, a "deeply worried" (his words re the keyboard) hand-wringer like Marco Arment. 

    There's a difference between level-headed criticism of Apple and this new style of apocalyptic Chicken-Little "worry" about Apple's "priorities."

    The latter spreads an unreasoned, emotional contagion of doubt about Apples's mind-set and future. This encourages the hater crowd, the piranhas of Wall Street, the ignorati among tech journalists, and could even spread into the ranks at Apple itself — where, after all, the Jobs project is just a shared vision — a vulnerable psychological stance, in other words — of how to force difficult advanced products into existence.
    Well if Apple is shutting him out a bit they need to be careful. A lot of people seem to respect him and his opinions. Don’t want him starting to get more pissy about Apple on his site.
    True, and I think Gruber needs to be careful. Jobs's company is based on a rare kind of psychology, and the likes of an influential critic like Gruber can poke a hole in the airship, or cause others to do so.
  • Reply 44 of 153
    I would agree that including the 5w charger seems a little silly.  Apple packs in so much incredible technology into this device - including rapid charging and wireless charging - and rightfully calls it he iPhone of the future, and yet packages it with a pitiful charging system that was included in the very first iPhone 10 years ago.  

    I guess its similar to the Airpods.  The tech is built into the device, but you have to spend an incredible amount of money to use it. 
    1) quick charing isn't that quick. Gruber did a timed comparison and it didn't really seem much to get excited about.

    2) AirPods are among the cheaper products in its category, hardly "incredible" expense
    pscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 153
    flaneur said:
    bells said:
    flaneur said:
    mubaili said:
    Any scoop why Gruber got the snub? but congrats on moving up the Apple ladder. Looking forward to a in deep bashing on Android phones.
    Just checked his site. :o Not sure if he’s just being sarcastic or really didn’t get a review unit and is pissed about it. Casey Liss wrote a blog post giving his thoughts on Apple’s reasoning around X reviews.

    https://one37.net/blog/31/10/2017/pr

    There are a few things Gruber has complained about recently like the MacBook/Macbook Pro keyboards and he didn’t mince any words on his dislike of the notch (called it gross) so maybe this is Apple showing their displeasure.
    I kind of hope Gruber is getting smacked. He's become, to a certain extent, a "deeply worried" (his words re the keyboard) hand-wringer like Marco Arment. 

    There's a difference between level-headed criticism of Apple and this new style of apocalyptic Chicken-Little "worry" about Apple's "priorities."

    The latter spreads an unreasoned, emotional contagion of doubt about Apples's mind-set and future. This encourages the hater crowd, the piranhas of Wall Street, the ignorati among tech journalists, and could even spread into the ranks at Apple itself — where, after all, the Jobs project is just a shared vision — a vulnerable psychological stance, in other words — of how to force difficult advanced products into existence.


    I like Gruber. He clearly is an Apple fan, but I find his analysis fair. 
    I like Gruber too, and I think he often makes valid criticisms of Apple's choices. But there's this whiney disease that's been going around among the Apple bloggers like Arment or Siracusa that also seems to have infected Gruber from time to time. This is where they make some valid criticism and then extrapolate based on that to a blanket "Apple has lost its way" kind of "worry." (Watch for that word among them.)

    Logically, there's no basis for that extrapolation based on one or a few instances that they're annoyed by. They are projecting emotionally — "worried." I always want to say, for God's sake, shut up, stop being a baby, Apple is deeper than you realize and if there's an issue, they'll eventually straighten it out. The last instance I saw with Gruber was over the keyboard butterfly switch and its vulnerability to dust. I'll look it up if I have to.
    I really noticed it with the Mac keyboards where just recently all these Mac techies/bloggers in unison were losing their minds over the keyboards. 
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 46 of 153

    flaneur said:
    mubaili said:
    Any scoop why Gruber got the snub? but congrats on moving up the Apple ladder. Looking forward to a in deep bashing on Android phones.
    Just checked his site. :o Not sure if he’s just being sarcastic or really didn’t get a review unit and is pissed about it. Casey Liss wrote a blog post giving his thoughts on Apple’s reasoning around X reviews.

    https://one37.net/blog/31/10/2017/pr

    There are a few things Gruber has complained about recently like the MacBook/Macbook Pro keyboards and he didn’t mince any words on his dislike of the notch (called it gross) so maybe this is Apple showing their displeasure.
    I kind of hope Gruber is getting smacked. He's become, to a certain extent, a "deeply worried" (his words re the keyboard) hand-wringer like Marco Arment. 

    There's a difference between level-headed criticism of Apple and this new style of apocalyptic Chicken-Little "worry" about Apple's "priorities."

    The latter spreads an unreasoned, emotional contagion of doubt about Apples's mind-set and future. This encourages the hater crowd, the piranhas of Wall Street, the ignorati among tech journalists, and could even spread into the ranks at Apple itself — where, after all, the Jobs project is just a shared vision — a vulnerable psychological stance, in other words — of how to force difficult advanced products into existence.
    Agreed, I've been super turned off by the Arment-led Techie Echo Chamber of Doom, Worry, and Concern (tm). This includes Gruber, who is usually level-headed, and Joanna Stern, a frequent guest on his podcast who did a horrible review of the AW3 by reviewing it for what she wanted it to do (exclusive all-day LTE use without iPhone present) vs what it actually does (accessory device that can operate when iPhone is away).
    edited October 2017 patchythepiratenetmagewatto_cobrapaisleydisco
  • Reply 47 of 153

    kkqd1337 said:
    I don’t want sound like I’m trolling or anything, I’m picking up a new iPhone X on Saturday.

    But this reads a bit like a fan boy review. IMO reviewers should be a lot more critical of this phone. I’m in the getting one regardless crowd, but it’s pretty obvious to anyone the X is quite underwhelming. These snapchat features are an embarrassment, that graphic for Apple Pay approval? Wow! Awful. And where is the stand out feature? The notch?

    I don’t know / it just feels like a treading water phone to me really. 
    Yeah that's just, like, your opinion, man. Underwhelming my ass...great screen, processor faster than the entry level MBP, true tone display, great cameras, computational photography, etc etc...

    The revolution is over, it happened 10 years ago. It's incremental, iterative improvements from here on.
    tmayanantksundaramjony0netmagewatto_cobrabaconstang
  • Reply 48 of 153
    flaneur said:
    bells said:
    flaneur said:
    mubaili said:
    Any scoop why Gruber got the snub? but congrats on moving up the Apple ladder. Looking forward to a in deep bashing on Android phones.
    Just checked his site. :o Not sure if he’s just being sarcastic or really didn’t get a review unit and is pissed about it. Casey Liss wrote a blog post giving his thoughts on Apple’s reasoning around X reviews.

    https://one37.net/blog/31/10/2017/pr

    There are a few things Gruber has complained about recently like the MacBook/Macbook Pro keyboards and he didn’t mince any words on his dislike of the notch (called it gross) so maybe this is Apple showing their displeasure.
    I kind of hope Gruber is getting smacked. He's become, to a certain extent, a "deeply worried" (his words re the keyboard) hand-wringer like Marco Arment. 

    There's a difference between level-headed criticism of Apple and this new style of apocalyptic Chicken-Little "worry" about Apple's "priorities."

    The latter spreads an unreasoned, emotional contagion of doubt about Apples's mind-set and future. This encourages the hater crowd, the piranhas of Wall Street, the ignorati among tech journalists, and could even spread into the ranks at Apple itself — where, after all, the Jobs project is just a shared vision — a vulnerable psychological stance, in other words — of how to force difficult advanced products into existence.


    I like Gruber. He clearly is an Apple fan, but I find his analysis fair. 
    I like Gruber too, and I think he often makes valid criticisms of Apple's choices. But there's this whiney disease that's been going around among the Apple bloggers like Arment or Siracusa that also seems to have infected Gruber from time to time. This is where they make some valid criticism and then extrapolate based on that to a blanket "Apple has lost its way" kind of "worry." (Watch for that word among them.)

    Logically, there's no basis for that extrapolation based on one or a few instances that they're annoyed by. They are projecting emotionally — "worried." I always want to say, for God's sake, shut up, stop being a baby, Apple is deeper than you realize and if there's an issue, they'll eventually straighten it out. The last instance I saw with Gruber was over the keyboard butterfly switch and its vulnerability to dust. I'll look it up if I have to.
    I really noticed it with the Mac keyboards where just recently all these Mac techies/bloggers in unison were losing their minds over the keyboards. 
    Yup -- Gruber's article about "a fucking piece of dust" was just nonsense, since it was based on the anecdotal report of another blogger. Which is not to say Apple can do no wrong, but one blogger's stuck keyboard does not make a crisis in design. Gruber and Stern were bitching about the keyboard a year ago when it was just the louder noise they didn't like. They've got it out for the keyboard!
    rogifan_newpatchythepiratenetmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 153
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,976member
    Great early review. Agree about the disappointment of fast OR wireless charger not being included in the box. Would have also been nice to have AirPods included with the purchase as well. 
    fcking greedy, dude. Samsung Note 8 included none of these at the same price point. What would you expect a better iPhone X to include a $160 pair of AirPod?
    StrangeDaysjony0patchythepiratepscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 153
    flaneur said:
    bells said:
    flaneur said:
    mubaili said:
    Any scoop why Gruber got the snub? but congrats on moving up the Apple ladder. Looking forward to a in deep bashing on Android phones.
    Just checked his site. :o Not sure if he’s just being sarcastic or really didn’t get a review unit and is pissed about it. Casey Liss wrote a blog post giving his thoughts on Apple’s reasoning around X reviews.

    https://one37.net/blog/31/10/2017/pr

    There are a few things Gruber has complained about recently like the MacBook/Macbook Pro keyboards and he didn’t mince any words on his dislike of the notch (called it gross) so maybe this is Apple showing their displeasure.
    I kind of hope Gruber is getting smacked. He's become, to a certain extent, a "deeply worried" (his words re the keyboard) hand-wringer like Marco Arment. 

    There's a difference between level-headed criticism of Apple and this new style of apocalyptic Chicken-Little "worry" about Apple's "priorities."

    The latter spreads an unreasoned, emotional contagion of doubt about Apples's mind-set and future. This encourages the hater crowd, the piranhas of Wall Street, the ignorati among tech journalists, and could even spread into the ranks at Apple itself — where, after all, the Jobs project is just a shared vision — a vulnerable psychological stance, in other words — of how to force difficult advanced products into existence.


    I like Gruber. He clearly is an Apple fan, but I find his analysis fair. 
    I like Gruber too, and I think he often makes valid criticisms of Apple's choices. But there's this whiney disease that's been going around among the Apple bloggers like Arment or Siracusa that also seems to have infected Gruber from time to time. This is where they make some valid criticism and then extrapolate based on that to a blanket "Apple has lost its way" kind of "worry." (Watch for that word among them.)

    Logically, there's no basis for that extrapolation based on one or a few instances that they're annoyed by. They are projecting emotionally — "worried." I always want to say, for God's sake, shut up, stop being a baby, Apple is deeper than you realize and if there's an issue, they'll eventually straighten it out. The last instance I saw with Gruber was over the keyboard butterfly switch and its vulnerability to dust. I'll look it up if I have to.
    I really noticed it with the Mac keyboards where just recently all these Mac techies/bloggers in unison were losing their minds over the keyboards. 
    Yup -- Gruber's article about "a fucking piece of dust" was just nonsense, since it was based on the anecdotal report of another blogger. Which is not to say Apple can do no wrong, but one blogger's stuck keyboard does not make a crisis in design. Gruber and Stern were bitching about the keyboard a year ago when it was just the louder noise they didn't like. They've got it out for the keyboard!
    I stopped going to DF about a month ago.  Like you say, his bitching was increasing. Others have mentioned the “worry”.  But what got me to stop was all the Trump posts.  I get news notifications all day about Trump.  I hear it on TV at my in-laws. People talk about Trump at work.  The last thing I want is to see Trump talk on, what I consider, a tech site.  Granted, it’s Gruber’s site and he can post whatever the hell he wants.  But he was posting too little of what I want to see and too much of what I don’t.  Plus, it was getting close to MLB playoff time and I expected to see baseball updates that I don’t care about.  I don’t particularly care about Kubrick the way he does but I could take the occasional post about it.  Sometimes I found them interesting.  But, again, more that I could live without.  So I stopped going, cold turkey. I tend to like his write-ups and I think he makes good points and is thoughtful and considerate when he’s putting fingers to keyboard (loud or not) but, man, drop the excess stuff.

    I’m glad this article got posted.  I’m one of the early iPhone X orderers and am expecting delivery on Friday and Daniel wrote about a few things I was unaware of.  I hope to see more of that in the in-depth review.

    I’m also hoping developers come up with some cool stuff for the TrueDepth camera.  Unlocking and Apple Pay are cool but I couldn’t care less about Snapchat filters and animoji.
    entropysGG1StrangeDayspatchythepiratenetmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 153
    bb-15bb-15 Posts: 259member
    ben20 said:
    The triplets kids just hacked Face ID, see the video at WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/articles/iphone-x-how-we-tested-and-tricked-faceid-1509465766
    The WSJ video was the first one which tried to be a bit more systematic but even then, there were some mistakes. 
    - Did not unlock the iPhone X; putting on a fake mustache, picture on cardboard or on another phone. A latex duplicate mask of a person (put on someone else with eye holes). A fraternal twin test. 
    - The triplet young boy test was better than what I've seen before because the 1st triplet who registered the phone was out of the frame of the video. Better. 
    But, there were two triplets together in front of the iPhone X when it unlocked. 
    Which triplet unlocked the phone? Did one triplet's face fail and another one was successful? Unknown. 
    - The triplet test showed that Face ID could be fooled but the WSJ test was done in a sloppy way.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 153
    bb-15 said:
    ben20 said:
    The triplets kids just hacked Face ID, see the video at WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/articles/iphone-x-how-we-tested-and-tricked-faceid-1509465766
    The WSJ video was the first one which tried to be a bit more systematic but even then, there were some mistakes. 
    - Did not unlock the iPhone X; putting on a fake mustache, picture on cardboard or on another phone. A latex duplicate mask of a person (put on someone else with eye holes). A fraternal twin test. 
    - The triplet young boy test was better than what I've seen before because the 1st triplet who registered the phone was out of the frame of the video. Better. 
    But, there were two triplets together in front of the iPhone X when it unlocked. 
    Which triplet unlocked the phone? Did one triplet's face fail and another one was successful? Unknown. 
    - The triplet test showed that Face ID could be fooled but the WSJ test was done in a sloppy way.  
    If I were one of people who developed FaceID, or one of the presenters at the unveiling of iPhone X, I would find it at least slightly annoying that, even though I/my team had mentioned that there can be a false positive with twins or people who have very strong resemblance to each other, all the big tech sites were testing that new tech with twins or people who have a very strong resemblance to each other.  How about demonstrating that it worked as expected with all those people who aren’t twins or triplets.  They’re just finding the absolute worst case scenario and using that for the test. It seems silly.

    When the Tesla Model X came out, people were trying to push the range to see what it was capable of.  They didn’t try pulling a trailer uphill in the snow to show that, geez, this thing doesn’t work like we were told.
    tycho_macuserjony0netmagebb-15pscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 153
    ben20 said:
    The triplets kids just hacked Face ID, see the video at WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/articles/iphone-x-how-we-tested-and-tricked-faceid-1509465766
    Oh look - people with precise enough technique to replicate a face, can replicate a face, so that AI in iPhoneX can accept it and unlock the phone.
    Okay. Now, try to do the same with a random person on a street that does not give his/her face for a scan. I am pretty sure it will be a breeze too. /s

  • Reply 54 of 153
    dewmedewme Posts: 2,094member
    Not sure why people are concerned about identical twins (much less larger identical groupings) and the iPhone X. Only about 3 in 1000 births involve identical twins. If you have an identical twin there’s a very good chance that you know who that person is quite well. So what’s the real world scenario with an iPhone X that your identical twin is putting at risk? Are you concerned that your identical twin is going to commit some sort of fraud or deception against you by breaking into your iPhone X? Is there something that this same identical person would not have been able to do simply by obtaining a fraudulent identification card (like a drivers license) and walking into your bank and draining your bank account? Identical twins, triplets, etc., have always been in a unique position to deceive and spoof systems that rely on visual identification alone. I’d bet that the iPhone X does a better job of detecting differences in identicals than humans relying on visual clues alone. Likewise, “spoof” scenarios that purposely train the iPhone X to accept identicals aren’t showing anything that the testers didn’t already know. And again, what’s the real world scenario or purpose for training a device to treat multiple individuals as the same logged-in identity that is not already possible by sharing your passcode with the other person? If you have to train the phone to accept more than one individual as the same it’s no different than a shared passcode that can only be used by identicals. That sounds like a feature to me. 
    StrangeDaysnetmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 153
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,976member
    bb-15 said:
    ben20 said:
    The triplets kids just hacked Face ID, see the video at WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/articles/iphone-x-how-we-tested-and-tricked-faceid-1509465766
    The WSJ video was the first one which tried to be a bit more systematic but even then, there were some mistakes. 
    - Did not unlock the iPhone X; putting on a fake mustache, picture on cardboard or on another phone. A latex duplicate mask of a person (put on someone else with eye holes). A fraternal twin test. 
    - The triplet young boy test was better than what I've seen before because the 1st triplet who registered the phone was out of the frame of the video. Better. 
    But, there were two triplets together in front of the iPhone X when it unlocked. 
    Which triplet unlocked the phone? Did one triplet's face fail and another one was successful? Unknown. 
    - The triplet test showed that Face ID could be fooled but the WSJ test was done in a sloppy way.  
    Seriously, who gives the fuck about twin, triplet or quadruplet test craps. Apple said it's not intended for family identical xxxplet.
    edited October 2017 williamlondonjony0netmagebb-15pscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 153
    LunnziesLunnzies Posts: 7unconfirmed, member
    Am I the only person who noticed that manufacturing defect with the OLED display. Looks like a bunch of dead pixels next to the Notch on the right ear.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 57 of 153
    Wow Paul Thurrott is pissing all over FaceID. I refused to click on the link but basically he claims Apple leaked that Bloomberg story to lower expectations, that Face ID works poorly and likens it to tech that Microsoft abandoned with the Kinect. I’m gonna take a not to wild guess that Thurrott didn’t get a review unit so he’s going off other reviews. But so far the only I’ve seen that had issues with Face ID is The Verge and I don’t trust Nilay Patel at all. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was exaggerating many issues he might have had.

    https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/ios/142329/x-cuses-iphone-x-facial-recognition-will-not-meet-expectations


    PT is a Microsoft guy.

    http://wiki.twit.tv/wiki/Windows_Weekly

    bb-15
  • Reply 58 of 153
    LunnziesLunnzies Posts: 7unconfirmed, member
    Am I the only person who noticed that manufacturing defect with the OLED display. Looks like a bunch of dead pixels next to the Notch on the right ear. 
    Sorry about the multiple posts. I cant delete them either it seems
    edited October 2017 williamlondon
  • Reply 59 of 153
    LunnziesLunnzies Posts: 7unconfirmed, member
    Am I the only person who noticed that manufacturing defect with the OLED display. Looks like a bunch of dead pixels next to the Notch on the right ear.
    Sorry about the multiple posts. I cant delete them either it seems
    edited October 2017 williamlondon
  • Reply 60 of 153

    rogifan_new said: I really noticed it with the Mac keyboards where just recently all these Mac techies/bloggers in unison were losing their minds over the keyboards. 

    Off on a tangential topic--- and IMO rightly so. Arguably ThinkPad keyboards are(or at least used to be) considered industry best by the pundit class(and me too years ago) but no one seems to want to copy them!!! I would love if Apple would copy ThinkPad keys/keyboards(at least the ones I use to know years ago). 

    Speaking of...best laptops ever made...

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/5/16428720/lenovo-retro-thinkpad-25th-anniversary

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/10/lenovos-25th-anniversary-thinkpad-brings-back-the-keyboard-we-love/

    Aint that pretty!? AND it has Buttons!!! Real live to goodness physical buttons!!! [hold still my heart... pitter patter].

    I betcha it even has ... PORTS!!! Well yes it does ... multiple ports wow! 

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