First look: Apple's bionic iPhone X with Face ID

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  • Reply 101 of 153
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,728member
    larryjw said:
    I attach zero importance to the 5W charger. That might be an issue for first time Apple buyers, but everyone else has a drawer filled with Apple chargers. Apple put a minimal charger in because they know anything more is unnecessary. 
    This makes no sense. Having a drawer full of Apple chargers doesn't make your new 5 W charger charge the iPhone X any faster.

    The point is, the iPhone X can be charged at a much faster rate than the included 5 W adaptor is capable of. For very little incremental cost (to Apple), Apple could include a more powerful charger. Given the high retail price of the iPhone X, I agree that it just seems mean-spirited of Apple to not include a more powerful adaptor.
    adonissmu
  • Reply 102 of 153
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,728member
    larryjw said:
    I attach zero importance to the 5W charger. That might be an issue for first time Apple buyers, but everyone else has a drawer filled with Apple chargers. Apple put a minimal charger in because they know anything more is unnecessary. 
    Ah, you meant that one of your many "Apple chargers" is a more powerful one that will fast-charge the iPhone X.

    Well, that's great for you. Doesn't really change the argument though.
  • Reply 103 of 153
    It's not a dramatic rethinking. It's an iPhone 8 with a no bezels and face ID.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 104 of 153
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,950member
    It's not a dramatic rethinking. It's an iPhone 8 with a no bezels and face ID.
    Can you explain that statement?
    StrangeDaysadonissmu
  • Reply 105 of 153
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,510member
    dws-2 said:
    flaneur said:
    mubaili said:
    Any scoop why Gruber got the snub? but congrats on moving up the Apple ladder. Looking forward to a in deep bashing on Android phones.
    Just checked his site. :o Not sure if he’s just being sarcastic or really didn’t get a review unit and is pissed about it. Casey Liss wrote a blog post giving his thoughts on Apple’s reasoning around X reviews.

    https://one37.net/blog/31/10/2017/pr

    There are a few things Gruber has complained about recently like the MacBook/Macbook Pro keyboards and he didn’t mince any words on his dislike of the notch (called it gross) so maybe this is Apple showing their displeasure.
    I kind of hope Gruber is getting smacked. He's become, to a certain extent, a "deeply worried" (his words re the keyboard) hand-wringer like Marco Arment. 

    There's a difference between level-headed criticism of Apple and this new style of apocalyptic Chicken-Little "worry" about Apple's "priorities."

    The latter spreads an unreasoned, emotional contagion of doubt about Apples's mind-set and future. This encourages the hater crowd, the piranhas of Wall Street, the ignorati among tech journalists, and could even spread into the ranks at Apple itself — where, after all, the Jobs project is just a shared vision — a vulnerable psychological stance, in other words — of how to force difficult advanced products into existence.
     I get what you’re saying about the “worry” over Apple’s priorities, especially as it concerns the Mac. If anything, Apple is paying too much attention to the Mac. And his stark criticism of the notch is just odd. There are a limited number of things you can do when you require cameras on the front of the device. In this case, there are no good options, but Apple’s is as good as any other; in fact, it’s probably better because 99% of people don’t use landscape mode for anything other than videos and pictures, and it looks fine in portrait mode.

    However, the new MBP keyboard really is annoying. Every few days, a random key stops working correctly until I turn the computer upside and try to blow out the dust particle. And every time it heats up, random keys start clicking loudly like they’re partially stuck. I had the keyboard (actually whole computer) switched out once, and the new one does the same thing, so I’m just living with it. It is really frustrating, though. I’m typing this on Apple’s 9.7” iPad Pro keyboard cover, which, for me at least, is better than the MBP keyboard. I’m not concerned about Apple’s “priorities,” but the MBP keyboard really does need to be fixed or replaced.
    Yes, seems like there is a real issue with the keyboard, and I emailed Neil here at AI last week that maybe they should do a story on it. 

    I'd be interested to know (I don't have one of these yet) if vacuuming (using a brush attachment or holding the hose above the keys so it doesn't make contact) and keeping the keyboard covered when open and not in use, might make a difference. Using gravity to de-dust doesn't seem quite as efficient, seeing that we live in a time of vacuum cleaners.

    But to the point about Gruber — he sees it as reason to "worry about Apple's priorities." This is unnecessary emotional trash talk, Marco Arment-style.

    It would be justified to say that Apple may be overreaching technically, or guilty of mechanical hubris in expecting something so delicate to survive in the real world, or releasing something without enough testing, but what about it suggests that Apple's priorities in general should be "worrying"? It's easy to imagine that they're working very hard to find out what's going wrong with these keyboards, much easier in my mind than that they're being somehow perverse in their priorities.
    dws-2StrangeDayspatchythepirate
  • Reply 106 of 153
    dewmedewme Posts: 2,094member
    mr. h said:
    larryjw said:
    I attach zero importance to the 5W charger. That might be an issue for first time Apple buyers, but everyone else has a drawer filled with Apple chargers. Apple put a minimal charger in because they know anything more is unnecessary. 
    This makes no sense. Having a drawer full of Apple chargers doesn't make your new 5 W charger charge the iPhone X any faster.

    The point is, the iPhone X can be charged at a much faster rate than the included 5 W adaptor is capable of. For very little incremental cost (to Apple), Apple could include a more powerful charger. Given the high retail price of the iPhone X, I agree that it just seems mean-spirited of Apple to not include a more powerful adaptor.
    Just a guess, but I'd bet that including the 5W charger has more to do with packaging and shipping considerations than anything else. If they included a larger charger such as the 12W iPad unit they would have to modify their packaging, palletizing, material handling equipment, shipping crates, etc., to accommodate a larger box. At some point they may have to bite the bullet and do it anyway, but doing it now may be deemed too disruptive to delivery promises. Mean spirited? Why would it ever be in Apple's best interest to be mean to its legions of loyal customers? That's a totally irrational concept.
    williamlondonStrangeDayspscooter63
  • Reply 107 of 153
    Does iPhone X have a Taptic Engine?
  • Reply 108 of 153
    bb-15bb-15 Posts: 259member
    k2kw said:
    bb-15 said:
    The Verge seemed to complain about Face ID outdoors. Any thoughts AI or they are just being picky?
    My thoughts; the Verge was being picky. 
    The Verge test in sunlight had the iPhone X at belt height next to the belt. That logically would be the edge of the range of the Face ID system. 
    After all, at belt height / next to the belt this is testing the unlock system while looking up at a person's chin. 
    But this is not Chin ID. It is Face ID.
    Logically, if in bright lighting, the iPhone X should be moved up to eye level so that the system can clearly recognize the face of the user.
    As far as I know the iPhone X will work at eye level even in bright sunlight.   
    TouchId works at belt height.
    First of all; Face ID works at belt height (according to the Verge video) when the light from above is not extremely bright (like sunlight).
    But I can also play the game of finding where one unlocking system works and another one doesn't.
    * Touch ID does not work when wearing gloves but Face ID does. ;-) 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 109 of 153
    larryjw said:
    I would agree that including the 5w charger seems a little silly.  Apple packs in so much incredible technology into this device - including rapid charging and wireless charging - and rightfully calls it he iPhone of the future, and yet packages it with a pitiful charging system that was included in the very first iPhone 10 years ago.  

    I guess its similar to the Airpods.  The tech is built into the device, but you have to spend an incredible amount of money to use it. 
    I attach zero importance to the 5W charger. That might be an issue for first time Apple buyers, but everyone else has a drawer filled with Apple chargers. Apple put a minimal charger in because they know anything more is unnecessary. 
    There’s a reason Apple is the most profitable companies in the world. This is one of them. iPad Pro ships with 12W charger which is a complete joke. But that way Apple gets people to buy a USB-C adapter and lightning to USB-C cable which is more $$ for them. 
    paisleydisco
  • Reply 110 of 153
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,950member
    larryjw said:
    I would agree that including the 5w charger seems a little silly.  Apple packs in so much incredible technology into this device - including rapid charging and wireless charging - and rightfully calls it he iPhone of the future, and yet packages it with a pitiful charging system that was included in the very first iPhone 10 years ago.  

    I guess its similar to the Airpods.  The tech is built into the device, but you have to spend an incredible amount of money to use it. 
    I attach zero importance to the 5W charger. That might be an issue for first time Apple buyers, but everyone else has a drawer filled with Apple chargers. Apple put a minimal charger in because they know anything more is unnecessary. 
    There’s a reason Apple is the most profitable companies in the world. This is one of them. iPad Pro ships with 12W charger which is a complete joke. But that way Apple gets people to buy a USB-C adapter and lightning to USB-C cable which is more $$ for them. 
    Yeah, that's where all profit comes from¡ :eyeroll:
    GG1patchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 111 of 153
    larryjw said:
    I would agree that including the 5w charger seems a little silly.  Apple packs in so much incredible technology into this device - including rapid charging and wireless charging - and rightfully calls it he iPhone of the future, and yet packages it with a pitiful charging system that was included in the very first iPhone 10 years ago.  

    I guess its similar to the Airpods.  The tech is built into the device, but you have to spend an incredible amount of money to use it. 
    I attach zero importance to the 5W charger. That might be an issue for first time Apple buyers, but everyone else has a drawer filled with Apple chargers. Apple put a minimal charger in because they know anything more is unnecessary. 
    There’s a reason Apple is the most profitable companies in the world. This is one of them. iPad Pro ships with 12W charger which is a complete joke. But that way Apple gets people to buy a USB-C adapter and lightning to USB-C cable which is more $$ for them. 
    I believe that the markup on Apple’s USB-C adapter and the Lightning to USB-C cable are huge, but I also believe they don’t sell enough of them to even make a dent in their earnings..  If they cost less I might consider buying them for my iPad Pro, as might others.  But that’s a big ‘might’ for me. For my use, the standard 12W charger is fine.  It isn’t particularly fast for the giant battery in the 12.9” Pro but typically I can just charge it overnight and then the iPad is set for a few days.  For me, at least, fast charging wouldn’t make that much of a difference.  However, Apple’s charger and cable aren’t prohibitively expensive and if I felt I needed them I wouldn’t hesitate.
    bb-15StrangeDayspatchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 112 of 153
    Soli said:
    It's not a dramatic rethinking. It's an iPhone 8 with a no bezels and face ID.
    Can you explain that statement?
    Sure! It's an iPhone 8 with a no bezels and face ID, like I said.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 113 of 153
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,950member
    Soli said:
    It's not a dramatic rethinking. It's an iPhone 8 with a no bezels and face ID.
    Can you explain that statement?
    Sure! It's an iPhone 8 with a no bezels and face ID, like I said.
    No, it's not. Not even close.
    pscooter63patchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 114 of 153
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    It's not a dramatic rethinking. It's an iPhone 8 with a no bezels and face ID.
    Can you explain that statement?
    Sure! It's an iPhone 8 with a no bezels and face ID, like I said.
    No, it's not. Not even close.
    It's got the same glass back, it's got the same camera except placed vertically, it's got the same amount of RAM and the same processor.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 115 of 153
    k2kw said:
    Soli said:

    k2kw said:
    cpsro said:
    mubaili said:
    Any scoop why Gruber got the snub? but congrats on moving up the Apple ladder. Looking forward to a in deep bashing on Android phones.
    Just checked his site. :o Not sure if he’s just being sarcastic or really didn’t get a review unit and is pissed about it. Casey Liss wrote a blog post giving his thoughts on Apple’s reasoning around X reviews.

    https://one37.net/blog/31/10/2017/pr

    There are a few things Gruber has complained about recently like the MacBook/Macbook Pro keyboards and he didn’t mince any words on his dislike of the notch (called it gross) so maybe this is Apple showing their displeasure.
    I'm sure Apple is pleased that the number one feature highlighted by Steven Levy--apparently the company's current best friend--was a poop animoji.
    I guess this generation of kids will spend their money for talking pooh (and then whine about why they can't afford college) but I'm going to have to wait for a better reason to buy this phone now.
    You do understand that the cost of college has shot up into the stratosphere, right? 


    PS: I didn't know anyone still used MS' Active Server Pages, but if I were to have guessed I'd have guessed a gov't website.
    College is expensive because most professors are vastly overpaid.
    Yeah i’m guessing you don’t know any teachers or professors. Over paid, good one. It’s only educating our youth. Unlike, say, professional athletes or the executive pay class, which includes university administrators these days. Why they make more than professors I’ll never know. 
    edited November 2017 williamlondonadonissmu
  • Reply 116 of 153
    k2kw said:
    bb-15 said:
    The Verge seemed to complain about Face ID outdoors. Any thoughts AI or they are just being picky?
    My thoughts; the Verge was being picky. 
    The Verge test in sunlight had the iPhone X at belt height next to the belt. That logically would be the edge of the range of the Face ID system. 
    After all, at belt height / next to the belt this is testing the unlock system while looking up at a person's chin. 
    But this is not Chin ID. It is Face ID.
    Logically, if in bright lighting, the iPhone X should be moved up to eye level so that the system can clearly recognize the face of the user.
    As far as I know the iPhone X will work at eye level even in bright sunlight.   
    TouchId works at belt height.
    And it doesn’t work when it’s raining. So what? What on earth is your point?
  • Reply 117 of 153

    lkrupp said:
    LOL! I didn't even have to look at the byline to know who wrote this! The summary on the main page says it all: "The new iPhone is the greatest invention since the wheel, curing cancer, improving the user's appearance, and ascending into Heaven all that believe in it.”
    So the only article you would consider to be unbiased is one that trashes Apple?
    Oh, of course that's what it means, because as we all know, there's nothing in between fawning fanboyism and trashing. Anything that isn't one must be the other.

    (Walks away rolling eyes)
    Keep walking...
    For the record, I didn't even bash Apple -- I poked the author in the ribs for being such an unabashed zealot. lkrupp's response was even more absurd absolutism. If calling him on that is out of line, you may be right that this forum and I aren't a good fit.
    Using terms like that makes you appear to be a troll. DED isn’t a zealot, he’s a columnist and he backs up his conclusions with reasoning and facts. This upsets those who struggle with reasoning, fatcs, and the conclusion that Apple’s products are usually better. 

    Your “calling him out” just demonstrates that you struggle with these things, and or the job of a columnist. 
    williamlondonpscooter63patchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 118 of 153
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,950member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    It's not a dramatic rethinking. It's an iPhone 8 with a no bezels and face ID.
    Can you explain that statement?
    Sure! It's an iPhone 8 with a no bezels and face ID, like I said.
    No, it's not. Not even close.
    It's got the same glass back, it's got the same camera except placed vertically, it's got the same amount of RAM and the same processor.
    1) Do you really not understand the vast differences in the display technologies and specs or the increased difficulties in engineering that display into that casing with that fit and finish? Quality OLED displays aren't fucking cheap!

    2) No, the iPhone X doesn't have the same camera as the iPhone 7. It's form factor and display width is the same as the 4.7" iPhone so that's the one you need to compare it to, not the Plus-sized iPhone with a considerably larger footprint and internal volume for components.

    3) Have you even considered why the dual cameras between the Plus-sized model and the iPhone X are placed in different orientations? Hint: It probably has something to do with that barely worth mentioning feature called Face ID.

    4) And then you have an entirely redesigned UI for the iPhone X's display's non-squared-off display, higher resolution needing different UI elements, and other major developer support for the new aspect ratio and Safe Areas. This shit takes a fuckload of consideration, effort, and cost to do right!
    edited November 2017 patchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 119 of 153

    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    mubaili said:
    Any scoop why Gruber got the snub? but congrats on moving up the Apple ladder. Looking forward to a in deep bashing on Android phones.
    mubaili said:
    Any scoop why Gruber got the snub? but congrats on moving up the Apple ladder. Looking forward to a in deep bashing on Android phones.
    Just checked his site. :o Not sure if he’s just being sarcastic or really didn’t get a review unit and is pissed about it. Casey Liss wrote a blog post giving his thoughts on Apple’s reasoning around X reviews.

    https://one37.net/blog/31/10/2017/pr

    There are a few things Gruber has complained about recently like the MacBook/Macbook Pro keyboards and he didn’t mince any words on his dislike of the notch (called it gross) so maybe this is Apple showing their displeasure.
    Gruber did get a review unit. He stated that he's only had less than 24 hours with it so he can't post his own detailed review at this time. He also noted that many longtime reviewers were only given a day to use the device before the embargo was lifted.
    Oh boo hoo.
    It's a statement of fact, not a reason for you to make a petty remark about a blogger you don't know. I guess I was wrong in thinking you'd want an answer to @mubaili ;'s query.
    I’m saying boo hoo to the snarkiness from Gruber (and others) that the ‘right’ people or usual suspects didn’t get review units or that Apple didn’t follow their typical policy. He tries to walk it back on his podcast but the snark is still up on his website. I do, however, agree with him that not enough people got extended time with the phone to do a proper review. I believe only 3 outlets in the US had more than 24 hours with the phone. I don’t understand that logic. The two major things with this phone - Face ID and the loss of the home button and remapping all those actions - is that really something you can comment on well in less than 24 hours? With some of these UI and gesture changes my guess is ones first impression would be worse than after they’ve used these gestures for a week or so, and had a chance to start to retrain their muscle memory. So no I don’t get the logic behind so many only have 24 hours or less with the phone before the embargo was lifted.
    Exactly. I’m in the dark on their thought process here too. 
  • Reply 120 of 153
    mr. h said:
    larryjw said:
    I attach zero importance to the 5W charger. That might be an issue for first time Apple buyers, but everyone else has a drawer filled with Apple chargers. Apple put a minimal charger in because they know anything more is unnecessary. 
    This makes no sense. Having a drawer full of Apple chargers doesn't make your new 5 W charger charge the iPhone X any faster.

    The point is, the iPhone X can be charged at a much faster rate than the included 5 W adaptor is capable of. For very little incremental cost (to Apple), Apple could include a more powerful charger. Given the high retail price of the iPhone X, I agree that it just seems mean-spirited of Apple to not include a more powerful adaptor.
    It’s not actually much faster. Gruber timed the 8 with the 29-watt charged compared to the iphone 7 without fast charging. At thirty minutes the fast charging was 54% charged while the iphone 7 had it at 43%. That’s nothing to get excited about. 

    https://daringfireball.net/2017/09/the_iphones_8
    edited November 2017 williamlondonbb-15GG1watto_cobraadonissmu
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