"Most people are comfortable with it within minutes - 30 minutes, whatever. It's not the kind of thing you have to live with for a week or two to get used to," said Schiller. "That, to me, is always the sign of some or our most advanced, best thought-out technology: they become intuitive incredibly quickly and change how you think about everything else you use."
That's not what intuitive means to me. Things don't "become" intuitive through practice...they are intuitive exactly because they don't require a learning curve.
I generally like watching Phil's presentation at Apple announcements and it's a good thing to see him out and talking about Apple products outside of the auditorium. But at some level I interpret most of what he's saying as being very cliche, reaching, rehashed, and standard marketing 101 spin-speak. Is it really burning your boats on iPhone X when you have two very capable iPhone 8s as a life raft? No doubt that the year-long wave of anticipation for something totally new would have been in vain had the iPhone 8, or much less the iPhone 7s, been the only option. Not shipping the X this year would not have destroyed the iPhone franchise because the iPhone 8/8+ is still clearly better than most competitive flagship products. All in all, nothing earth shattering either good or bad to be inferred based on what Phil is saying - but I can't shake a my gut feeling that what we're hearing from Phil, at least between the lines, is decidedly not "Think Different" but more like "Defend Your Position." Overthinking perhaps, but that's what my gut tells me.
I won't rehash your words as you put things very well but if Phil, and by extension Apple, is really listening, give us a mid range tower!
Zero engineering issues to resolve, a form factor everybody is well used to, upgradeable, thermally stable, bring your own screen... Just like with the G3, G4, G5...
There are some 'boats' that never needed to be burned, much less in the name of 'innovation'.
A brand new Mac form factor, and you claim it would have zero engineering issues to resolve. Do you guys even listen to the words you’re saying?
You obviously didn't read what I said. Imagine a box like the G4. Do you really think they need to re-invent the wheel? What engineering 'issues' need to be solved. No slim, no screen, no space limitations, no cylinder... . If the rest of the industry can churn out those machines - and sell them - so can Apple (40% margins included), and in the blink of an eye.
We aren't talking about breaking new ground or resolving complex engineering issues. It's about making a well designed computer without a screen at an attractive price that runs macOS.
I know why Apple doesn't have this machine. We all know.
The point was about Apple 'listening' and how his comments come over as empty marketing. Nothing more.
"Most people are comfortable with it within minutes - 30 minutes, whatever."
Pernt near instantaneous for me. Within a day, I was attempting to swipe up on Air 2, then realized I had to push the home button like some kind of animal.
I have an iPhone 5 and was looking forward to the new iPhone releases. The iPhone 8 would work fine for me but I couldn't bring myself to shell out the big bucks for something that looks not much different. (Someone tell Jon Ive at least some of his ideas are not precious enough to hold onto for five+ years!) The iPhone X was more like it but I'll wait another year (if there are no delays) in the hope of less expensive models.
If you can’t see the clear differences between an iPhone 5 and 8, you’re going to be blown away when you finally join everyone else living in the present day. “Looks not much different” indeed.
“Schiller claims that Apple "learned over the last few years" the "depth and love" that the Mac platform has by pro users.”
Why only recently have they come to understand this? This is surprising to me, having worked in video post at a time when Mac devotion was at it’s highest level. I thought for sure they understood how much we love and demand Macs. Better late than never I guess.
Couldn't they have just looked at the companies quarterly reports and see that with MACs over a $20 Billion business that probably a lot of them were high end Pros.
"Most people are comfortable with it within minutes - 30 minutes, whatever. It's not the kind of thing you have to live with for a week or two to get used to," said Schiller. "That, to me, is always the sign of some or our most advanced, best thought-out technology: they become intuitive incredibly quickly and change how you think about everything else you use."
That's not what intuitive means to me. Things don't "become" intuitive through practice...they are intuitive exactly because they don't require a learning curve.
That might be true except people have been using iPhones and others with home buttons for more than 10 years and developed habits and muscle memory for the home button. So, if somebody adapts to the X in 30 minutes or so, I would say that’s pretty damn intuitive.
The talk of collaboration makes me wonder about the Apple secrecy modes where no one outside each team knew what was going on, and sometimes even people on a team didn't really know. How is collaboration possible in such an environment?
"Most people are comfortable with it within minutes - 30 minutes, whatever. It's not the kind of thing you have to live with for a week or two to get used to," said Schiller. "That, to me, is always the sign of some or our most advanced, best thought-out technology: they become intuitive incredibly quickly and change how you think about everything else you use."
That's not what intuitive means to me. Things don't "become" intuitive through practice...they are intuitive exactly because they don't require a learning curve.
To be fair, it’s more an unlearning curve in this case. The test of intuitiveness here would be how a person who never used a smartphone adapts to the X.
Delays and software glitches seem to be increasing at Apple. Innovations are coming more slowly. Apple's quality goals are an increasingly tired excuse, and "integration" seems to be the next excuse.
I have an iPhone 5 and was looking forward to the new iPhone releases. The iPhone 8 would work fine for me but I couldn't bring myself to shell out the big bucks for something that looks not much different. (Someone tell Jon Ive at least some of his ideas are not precious enough to hold onto for five+ years!) The iPhone X was more like it but I'll wait another year (if there are no delays) in the hope of less expensive models.
Someone should tell you what Ive has stated on many occasions — Apple doesn’t believe design is how something looks alone, but how it works. And that they don’t do change for change’s sake. And that his 20 person design team works as a team and it isn’t just him designing this stuff.
But then someone needs to point out to you that Apple doesn't actually operate by these ideals. iOS 7 was all about change for the sake of change, as evidenced by what they actually did to it and by who was put on the task (the marketing print people, not the UI experts).
The only functional improvement was the control center, which they've now changed for the sake of [perpetual] change again by making it a pile of changeable nondescript objects.
They've removed tons of functionality from various Apple products and changed appearances to suit convenience of Apple (the idiotic change to the wifi/Bluetooth controls) and Ive's aesthetic preferences for flat minimalism (and Cook's color taste?).
Furthering this point, take note: The changes to iOS's GUI were almost entirely only skin deep. Unfortunately, the former looks are what helped people intuit the brilliant function. Brilliant design that is obscured by meaningless visuals is bad design.
Also, I'm calling PR nonsense on the claim that the iMac Pro is Apple showing awareness of their pro users' desires. First of all, it's pretty obvious that the iMac Pro was in development already. They announced it early in an attempt to stem the flow of bad press against Apple's foolish behavior (their rejection of anything but end user consumer and mass-market interests - after all, prime shareholders aren't power-users, they're end-users and basic consumers).
Secondly, this isn't what pros actually asked for. While it looks good on paper, an all-in-one computer with laptop-style components and questionable heat/performance management is not what content-creators, power-users and whatnot were asking for. The iMac Pro is actually worse than the 2013 Mac Pro in these ways. At least the 2013 Mac Pro wasn't glued to a display (though it also wasn't paired with a Retina display of any kind, which was part of the problem for content creators, especially when Apple offered a Retina display on an iMac almost around the same time as the Mac Pro that lacked it). This market of users had already been predicting the abandonment of the Mac Pro, even going so far as to bitterly joke that Apple's arrogant ignorance would likely offer them an "iMac Pro" instead of a real power-user's workstation... and, lo and behold, here it comes, name and all.
If Apple cared about addressing their missteps, they'd be talking to us about the next Mac Pro they claim to have decided to make (ex post facto).
To me, they need to approach the Mac Pro line differently. Perhaps have 2 stock versions you buy without configuration options. Chassis should be innovatively Functional/Expandable - a “Truck”, not “Ive Pretty.” Then Apple can offer an option to build your own with a ton of possibilities. You build your MacPro and then Apple bills you assembly at 1-3 hours at $200/hour. Do them on a custom order basis and run the entire space at break even + 5%. Mac OS will need a Pro team to integrate exotic hardware drivers, etc.
I think we’d see lots of monster rigs, relatively low prices and the emergence of a boutique computer attitude.
"Most people are comfortable with it within minutes - 30 minutes, whatever."
Pernt near instantaneous for me. Within a day, I was attempting to swipe up on Air 2, then realized I had to push the home button like some kind of animal.
This is funniest comment I’ve read this month! 👍🏾🤣👍🏾
I have an iPhone 5 and was looking forward to the new iPhone releases. The iPhone 8 would work fine for me but I couldn't bring myself to shell out the big bucks for something that looks not much different.
Maybe it doesn't look all that much different (it actually does, but let's move along) -- maybe you should try playing with an iPhone 8 for oh, say a full minute. You'll notice a huge difference that is well worth the money.
AppleInsider said: Issues cited along the way were the unexpected result that removing the cable had on bud retention in the ears, dealing with RF shielding by the human body itself, and other fit and finish issues.
RF shielding by the human body... you mean, RF absorbtion into the human body, Phil?
rogifan_new said: Are you suggesting Cook wanted to do this all along but Steve Jobs wouldn’t let him?
I imagine more like Jobs kept the priorities straight. Jobs cared foremost about making the best products and user-experience. Cook cares most about profit margins/maximization and supply chains, etc.
welshdog said: The Mac malaise started under Jobs direct supervision. I watched as my beautiful Xserves died on the vine and Steve’s response was “Nobody is buying them”.
There is a bit of a difference there, IMO, between pro Macs and server-room hardware. I loved our Xserves too (we had a few racks of them), but between the hardware systems (and RAID, etc.) and server software, that is quite an undertaking if the target market isn't warming up to it. One of the biggest problems was service and support, as Apple didn't have the infrastructure in place that companies like HP had. We got away with it, as I could literally put them on a cart and roll them down the sidewalk to an Apple Store. Also, Apple probably recognized the shift happening towards cloud and away from localized servers.
StrangeDays said: Someone should tell you what Ive has stated on many occasions — Apple doesn’t believe design is how something looks alone, but how it works. And that they don’t do change for change’s sake. And that his 20 person design team works as a team and it isn’t just him designing this stuff.
I've heard him say that... I'm just not sure I really believe it anymore. They seem to often just introduce new designs to have something fresh. The market does seem to demand that, though, so I can't blame him totally.
StrangeDays said: A brand new Mac form factor, and you claim it would have zero engineering issues to resolve. Do you guys even listen to the words you’re saying?
I think we're maybe questioning why there must be a new form-factor. As I've previously stated... just put the latest and greatest stuff in the 'cheese grater' and iMac guts into the 'cylinder' and most of us would be darn happy. Not zero enginnering, but shouldn't be too crazy hard either.
StrangeDays said: To which I say — if this is actually true then there’s a huge untapped market full of potential. Start your company. Build what Apple refuses to. Watch your success and fortunes unfold as Jobs and Woz did. What is stopping you??
Several thousand engineers and $100B dollars? Give or take. I don't have to be able to do what they are doing to know when they are doing things right or making mistakes.
If you went to a symphany and the instruments were out of tune and they couldn't keep in time with each other and such... would it be fair to say, "Hey, if you StrangeDays can't play it better yourself, stop complaining."?
... The iPhone X was more like it but I'll wait another year (if there are no delays) in the hope of less expensive models.
If you can’t see the clear differences between an iPhone 5 and 8, you’re going to be blown away when you finally join everyone else living in the present day. “Looks not much different” indeed.
I think the point was that the 5 was when the design was still nice (for GBannis), and that the X seems to be a bit of a move back in that direction... but that he/she doesn't like the 8 at all. I'm in that same camp. I love the design of my SE, and don't care about the 6, 7, 8, etc. as it was a design degradation (in form factor, look, materials, etc.). The X seems high quality and better design again (with some downsides). But, it's closer to the design of the 5, SE, etc.
radarthekat said: To be fair, it’s more an unlearning curve in this case. The test of intuitiveness here would be how a person who never used a smartphone adapts to the X.
Exactly! And, whether you like it or not, a button will always beat a swipe in intuitiveness. Now, maybe it's fair to make an argument that intuitiveness is overrated and it's time to move on with non-physical controls and screen space as a trade-off to intuitiveness... but that's a whole other debate. Phil is a marketing guy though, not a UI designer or industrial designer, so he's just doing his job of schmoozing whatever Apple does to sound as good as possible.
dysamoria said: Secondly, this isn't what pros actually asked for. While it looks good on paper, an all-in-one computer with laptop-style components and questionable heat/performance management is not what content-creators, power-users and whatnot were asking for. The iMac Pro is actually worse than the 2013 Mac Pro in these ways.
No doubt. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the iMac Pro can keep it's cool as well as the cylinder Mac Pro or as quietly. Nice screen aside, it seems like a downgrade, not a successor. It will work great for *some* subsection of pros, but that they apparently thought it would be the next in line to the Mac Pro is kind of scary.
AppleZulu said: I think the placeholder aspect is pretty significant here. Everybody and his brother is putting voice-activated speaker pods out on the market. Had Apple kept entirely mum about the HomePod until it was ready to go, even people well-invested in the Apple ecosystem would’ve had little reason not to go ahead and buy the Google or Amazon device, dimming Apple’s market prospects as they enter later. Even with the delay, with Apple laying down the marker, a lot will be willing to wait for the Apple device, rather than start down the road with one of the other items. for months. I’m only bringing this up to wonder aloud (figuratively) if Belkin’s delay is tied to HomePod and as-of-yet advances in networking and HomeKit tech.
Yup. Even with any let-down arising from the delay, I agree that announcing it was a good idea. I'd like to try out a voice-controlled "assistant" device, not because I have any genuine need but just because it seems like it might be fun. If Apple hadn't announced the HomePod I probably would have bought an Amazon device last week. Instead, knowing that the HomePod is coming, I've delayed my purchase of an Echo until after I've purchased, tried, been disappointed by, and returned a HomePod.
I'm actually only half joking. Based on what little we know about the HomePod it doesn't sound like home assistant functions are its intended purpose. But that just reinforces your point. Despite knowing that it probably is not exactly what I want, I'm still waiting to at least try it before buying anything else.
"Most people are comfortable with it within minutes - 30 minutes, whatever. It's not the kind of thing you have to live with for a week or two to get used to," said Schiller. "That, to me, is always the sign of some or our most advanced, best thought-out technology: they become intuitive incredibly quickly and change how you think about everything else you use."
That's not what intuitive means to me. Things don't "become" intuitive through practice...they are intuitive exactly because they don't require a learning curve.
BINGO! That's exactly what I was going to say. Something doesn't "become" intuitive. It either is or isn't.
I'm not mentioning it just to be pedantic. The reason I thought it worthy of comment is that it makes me wonder how well the leaders at Apple share their vision. It may not seem like a big deal to say "intuitive" when what's really meant is "easily learned," but when one is conveying a product vision to a design team, misunderstandings hamper the process.
Maybe it was just a conversational mis-step and not a big deal. It sure got my attention though.
Comments
That's not what intuitive means to me. Things don't "become" intuitive through practice...they are intuitive exactly because they don't require a learning curve.
We aren't talking about breaking new ground or resolving complex engineering issues. It's about making a well designed computer without a screen at an attractive price that runs macOS.
I know why Apple doesn't have this machine. We all know.
The point was about Apple 'listening' and how his comments come over as empty marketing. Nothing more.
Pernt near instantaneous for me. Within a day, I was attempting to swipe up on Air 2, then realized I had to push the home button like some kind of animal.
The only functional improvement was the control center, which they've now changed for the sake of [perpetual] change again by making it a pile of changeable nondescript objects.
They've removed tons of functionality from various Apple products and changed appearances to suit convenience of Apple (the idiotic change to the wifi/Bluetooth controls) and Ive's aesthetic preferences for flat minimalism (and Cook's color taste?).
Furthering this point, take note: The changes to iOS's GUI were almost entirely only skin deep. Unfortunately, the former looks are what helped people intuit the brilliant function. Brilliant design that is obscured by meaningless visuals is bad design.
Secondly, this isn't what pros actually asked for. While it looks good on paper, an all-in-one computer with laptop-style components and questionable heat/performance management is not what content-creators, power-users and whatnot were asking for. The iMac Pro is actually worse than the 2013 Mac Pro in these ways. At least the 2013 Mac Pro wasn't glued to a display (though it also wasn't paired with a Retina display of any kind, which was part of the problem for content creators, especially when Apple offered a Retina display on an iMac almost around the same time as the Mac Pro that lacked it). This market of users had already been predicting the abandonment of the Mac Pro, even going so far as to bitterly joke that Apple's arrogant ignorance would likely offer them an "iMac Pro" instead of a real power-user's workstation... and, lo and behold, here it comes, name and all.
If Apple cared about addressing their missteps, they'd be talking to us about the next Mac Pro they claim to have decided to make (ex post facto).
I think we’d see lots of monster rigs, relatively low prices and the emergence of a boutique computer attitude.
I imagine more like Jobs kept the priorities straight. Jobs cared foremost about making the best products and user-experience. Cook cares most about profit margins/maximization and supply chains, etc.
There is a bit of a difference there, IMO, between pro Macs and server-room hardware. I loved our Xserves too (we had a few racks of them), but between the hardware systems (and RAID, etc.) and server software, that is quite an undertaking if the target market isn't warming up to it. One of the biggest problems was service and support, as Apple didn't have the infrastructure in place that companies like HP had. We got away with it, as I could literally put them on a cart and roll them down the sidewalk to an Apple Store. Also, Apple probably recognized the shift happening towards cloud and away from localized servers.
I've heard him say that... I'm just not sure I really believe it anymore. They seem to often just introduce new designs to have something fresh. The market does seem to demand that, though, so I can't blame him totally.
I think we're maybe questioning why there must be a new form-factor. As I've previously stated... just put the latest and greatest stuff in the 'cheese grater' and iMac guts into the 'cylinder' and most of us would be darn happy. Not zero enginnering, but shouldn't be too crazy hard either.
Several thousand engineers and $100B dollars? Give or take.
If you went to a symphany and the instruments were out of tune and they couldn't keep in time with each other and such... would it be fair to say, "Hey, if you StrangeDays can't play it better yourself, stop complaining."?
Exactly! And, whether you like it or not, a button will always beat a swipe in intuitiveness. Now, maybe it's fair to make an argument that intuitiveness is overrated and it's time to move on with non-physical controls and screen space as a trade-off to intuitiveness... but that's a whole other debate. Phil is a marketing guy though, not a UI designer or industrial designer, so he's just doing his job of schmoozing whatever Apple does to sound as good as possible.
No doubt. I'll be pleasantly surprised if the iMac Pro can keep it's cool as well as the cylinder Mac Pro or as quietly. Nice screen aside, it seems like a downgrade, not a successor. It will work great for *some* subsection of pros, but that they apparently thought it would be the next in line to the Mac Pro is kind of scary.
I'm actually only half joking. Based on what little we know about the HomePod it doesn't sound like home assistant functions are its intended purpose. But that just reinforces your point. Despite knowing that it probably is not exactly what I want, I'm still waiting to at least try it before buying anything else.
I'm not mentioning it just to be pedantic. The reason I thought it worthy of comment is that it makes me wonder how well the leaders at Apple share their vision. It may not seem like a big deal to say "intuitive" when what's really meant is "easily learned," but when one is conveying a product vision to a design team, misunderstandings hamper the process.
Maybe it was just a conversational mis-step and not a big deal. It sure got my attention though.