Apple responds to reports of worn batteries forcing iPhone CPU slowdowns

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  • Reply 61 of 173
    dewmedewme Posts: 2,199member
    When I read the "smooth out the instantaneous peaks" the first question in my mind was ... why doesn't Apple use a super-capacitor to buffer the batteries from these sort of sporadic peaks if they can induce device crashes? While this won't increase battery capacity it may increase battery lifetime by shielding it from (at least some) peaks which could theoretically move the battery wear threshold point where throttling via software is needed further out. In the meantime and for existing devices, a simple battery health meter (green-yellow-red bar gauge) of some sort is the least Apple can provide so I can decide whether and when to bring my device in for a battery replacement. I cannot think of a reason why Apple would not want to put this information in front of its customers and give them the ability to make an informed decision. 
  • Reply 62 of 173
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Low Power Mode (the function the iPhone offers you at 20%) cuts the CPU Power down dramatically to get some more battery out of the remaining charge. Since I see people running around with Low Power Mode turned on for bassicaly all the time, since they are still somehow used to the battery life of theyre Nokia from 10 years ago, I really don't see a throtling to prevent the battery from getting too worse I consider that a good thing in generall. Would it be benefficial to tell the user that it happen with a pop up? Maybe. But Most users I know (I sell and support smartphones, just to give you a context) are unable to understand messages of the iPhone telling them, that iCloud backup failed due to insufficient storage. So if you tell Them

    "Your iPhone battery seems to be damaged and maybe needs service. To prevent your iPhone from shutting down, we reduced the speed of your phone. Please contact Apple Care for more Information."

    I guess there would be 3 scenarios:

    A) The customer is puzzled, doesn't get it and just ignores it.
    B) The User thinks Apple has some fishy remote controll over his smartphone, wants to force him to pay for service and/or is angry because he cant play flappy bird with full CPU power
    C) The User properly understands what he was told about, takes a talk with Apple Care and gets a replacement of his battery, maybe even for free because of Apple Care+

    So I guess there is no right or wrong answer here. But at least I do appreciate that Apple is thinking about helping customers with the Issues, and not just tells them they should just go buy a new phone.
    cornchip
  • Reply 63 of 173
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 5,007administrator
    dysamoria said:
    "It has been conclusively proven that older iPhone hardware with an adequately functioning battery is no slower than it was at launch."
    Stop promoting that PR article. The issue was never whether the CPU was being slowed. The issue was that the performance of the device under newer OS versions was lousy compared to the OS version the phone originally started with. The complaint is that iOS is growing more bloated and that adding questionable features helps sell more phones both by being carrot AND stick. The complaint is that Apple doesn't optimize iOS performance for prior devices (or at all, even, just relying on faster hardware).

    That PR piece defending Apple sets up a straw man to knock down complaints without ever addressing the real issue of iOS being increasingly bloated, version after version.
    Still no. The issue, and bogus conspiracy theory, was that Apple intentionally slowed down the phones processing power to force you to buy a new phone, when that is demonstrably not the case. As before, with a good battery, the phones remain the same speed and power that they were the day that they were bought. The geekbench data from Monday proves yet again, that the phones with a good battery are the same speed that they were at launch.

    The testers cited in the previous article are a third party. They weren't contracted by Apple, and neither are we -- so by definition it isn't a "PR piece."

    What changes over time is the demands that newer software place on the phone, and I have said that all along. I don't disagree with the bloat issue -- but that is an entirely different matter, unrelated to any CPU slowdown.

    The issue here is transparency, not any conspiracy for Apple to get you to buy new hardware. Get a new battery. Problem solved, the phone is back to the same speed it was when it came out of the box.
    edited December 2017 cornchiptmaymagman1979netmage
  • Reply 64 of 173
    r2d2r2d2 Posts: 95member
    Kind of a dumb controversy, really. As the A series SoC has become more and more powerful, seems like the trend is to claim that the iPhone is either "overpowered" for the software used most of the time or that users "won't really notice" the difference with a new iPhone most of the time. But now, suddenly, people are worried that a benchmark number drops a bit vs. optimum conditions.
    It doesn't drop a bit but a lot! It's to the point that I often have to actually wait 10-15 seconds for web pages to load with a good internet connection. I also have to wait for iBooks to load. I even have to wait for the settings page to load. Never had that happen before the upgrade. Not just optimum conditions but all conditions. This is a problem.
    ZooMigolarryamuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 65 of 173
    r2d2r2d2 Posts: 95member
    sdw2001 said:
    The issue continues to not be a Apple-led conspiracy to force users to buy new hardware. Apple is not slowing down older devices to convince users to buy a new one. If it did, the throttling would be permanent, and a new battery would not solve the issue.


    I'm going to take issue with that.  Apple IS slowing down older devices, ostensibly to prevent shutdowns.  The throttling is absolutely permanent as long as the battery is not replaced.  I can't think of anyone who is going to replace their battery.  Apple may claim it doesn't throttle older hardware to force users to upgrade, but that is the net effect.  we know that because they just told us.  

    There are other comment sections on other sites where people have reported replacing their batteries and the performance throttling has continued. It seems to be permanent.
    sdw2001
  • Reply 66 of 173
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 5,007administrator
    r2d2 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    The issue continues to not be a Apple-led conspiracy to force users to buy new hardware. Apple is not slowing down older devices to convince users to buy a new one. If it did, the throttling would be permanent, and a new battery would not solve the issue.


    I'm going to take issue with that.  Apple IS slowing down older devices, ostensibly to prevent shutdowns.  The throttling is absolutely permanent as long as the battery is not replaced.  I can't think of anyone who is going to replace their battery.  Apple may claim it doesn't throttle older hardware to force users to upgrade, but that is the net effect.  we know that because they just told us.  

    There are other comment sections on other sites where people have reported replacing their batteries and the performance throttling has continued. It seems to be permanent.
    There was some initial confusion, but what looks to have happened is people are confusing pop-up mall kiosk battery places for "authorized service centers" and actual Apple parts. That said, we're still looking into it.

    This doesn't mean that all DIY battery replacements are bad. It does mean that some are.
    hammeroftruthmagman1979netmage
  • Reply 67 of 173
    r2d2r2d2 Posts: 95member

    The issue here is transparency, not any conspiracy for Apple to get you to buy new hardware. Get a new battery. Problem solved, the phone is back to the same speed it was when it came out of the box.
    The problem is that without giving any notification about the issue, one could argue that they are knowingly misleading you into buying new hardware. They, themselves, are responsible for keeping the "conspiracy" alive.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 68 of 173
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 5,007administrator
    r2d2 said:

    The issue here is transparency, not any conspiracy for Apple to get you to buy new hardware. Get a new battery. Problem solved, the phone is back to the same speed it was when it came out of the box.
    The problem is that without giving any notification about the issue, one could argue that they are knowingly misleading you into buying new hardware. They, themselves, are responsible for keeping the "conspiracy" alive.
    You could possibly argue that, yes. It is a big logical stretch without any proof, though.

    The 10.2.1 update did say that the random shutdown issue was fixed. It didn't delve into any details about the how and why. So, it's not even a "stealth" upgrade -- it's just not a fully disclosed one.
    netmage
  • Reply 69 of 173
    This is very hard to believe. My iPhone 6 ran just fine until OS11 was installed, then it crapped the bed. Everything took 3-5 times as long to happen. Apps opened so much slower, pages drew slower.. hell the phone would even refuse to rotate from portrait to landscape most of the time. I'm more inclined to believe this is Apple trying to force new phone purchases than battery life issues. Just in case anyone questions this, my battery life was still all day with moderate use, and over a weekend when I didn't use my phone much, I was typically still at 30%+ on Sunday night (Friday night - Sunday night, no charge).
    edited December 2017
  • Reply 70 of 173
    Double edged sword. Throttle the device, your not being transparent and are intentionally forcing upgrades. Tell people when the battery is faulty/needs to be replaced and they will claim Apple are intentionally forcing battery replacements or upgrades. 

    The narrative is always anti-Apple.


    magman1979dewme
  • Reply 71 of 173
    wigbywigby Posts: 692member
    Good detective work indeed but they're forming a narrative that maybe not everyone agrees with. It could be read as "planned obsolescence" but the actual story is more complex. Battery management makes sense and I would expect it. Notification makes sense as well though needs to thread the gap between notifying and not confusing.
    Apple is doing hundreds of things like this in background. Do you want them to tell
    you all of them? They couldn’t possibly know which ones would blow up on the internet until conspiracy theorists go to town. I’m not sure they could really be expected to do any more.
    smiffy31
  • Reply 72 of 173
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,719member
    mvigod said:
    Bacillus3 said:
    Why do GPS dependent apps like Waze perform worse in iOS11 ? I have no time for research / survey's, but wouldn't be surprised with some anti-competitive measure to have been taken "in the interest of he UX" "the customer", "the integration level" and alike objectives
    Anti-competitive?  You mean like apple not allowing Waze or Google maps on CarPlay?  Or like only Apple Music and no Spotify on CarPlay?  Years ago Microsoft got destroyed by FTC for monopolistic behavior like this.  When do they start looking at apple?

    I have an iPhone X but also bought a Pixel 2 XL because I want Waze and google maps on my car along with other features that Apple shuts down out of self interest vs customer centric strategy.  

    Would any of you apple fans here complain that apple has allowed you to use whatever apps you want on CarPlay?  Maybe you like  Waze, Google Maps or some other favorite third party app.  
    If Apple had anywhere near a monopoly, the govt would take a look. However we’ve been told Android is “winning”. 


    magman1979netmage
  • Reply 73 of 173
    This respond does not convince me.I can use a power bank If I do not want my iPhone to shut down.
    I recently bought iPhone X just because my iPhone 6 is too slow to use.If this happens again,I would absolutely choose another mobile phone brand.
    larrya
  • Reply 74 of 173
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,824member
    dysamoria said:
    "It has been conclusively proven that older iPhone hardware with an adequately functioning battery is no slower than it was at launch."
    Stop promoting that PR article. The issue was never whether the CPU was being slowed. The issue was that the performance of the device under newer OS versions was lousy compared to the OS version the phone originally started with. The complaint is that iOS is growing more bloated and that adding questionable features helps sell more phones both by being carrot AND stick. The complaint is that Apple doesn't optimize iOS performance for prior devices (or at all, even, just relying on faster hardware).

    That PR piece defending Apple sets up a straw man to knock down complaints without ever addressing the real issue of iOS being increasingly bloated, version after version.
    Still no. The issue, and bogus conspiracy theory, was that Apple intentionally slowed down the phones processing power to force you to buy a new phone, when that is demonstrably not the case. As before, with a good battery, the phones remain the same speed and power that they were the day that they were bought. The geekbench data from Monday proves yet again, that the phones with a good battery are the same speed that they were at launch.

    The testers cited in the previous article are a third party. They weren't contracted by Apple, and neither are we -- so by definition it isn't a "PR piece."

    What changes over time is the demands that newer software place on the phone, and I have said that all along. I don't disagree with the bloat issue -- but that is an entirely different matter, unrelated to any CPU slowdown.

    The issue here is transparency, not any conspiracy for Apple to get you to buy new hardware. Get a new battery. Problem solved, the phone is back to the same speed it was when it came out of the box.
    I would like to know who at Apple decided that they should throttle their phones via these software changes. Who was aware that problems with aging batteries who be addressed this way and did they reject the idea of replacing these batteries.   At the price for a Apple phone they should last 3 years.

    this is far worse than the Maps fiasco that got Forestall fired.  Is Cook going to insist on the same standard or was he aware of the problem and how was it being handled.
    mike54muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 76 of 173
    Seems to me the choice is allow for full-speed all the time and the iPhone to conk out when under load, possibly taking the hardware with it, or throttling down when the battery is old or depleted.

    More transparency would have been good, though.
    Either way Apple would have been the scapegoat. "You throttle the speed and make me buy a battery!" or "You could have throttled the speed and not let me fry my logic board and make me buy a replacement device!"

    Apple can't win. Even when they replace a battery and charge $79, people think that they are being robbed. I guess those people never had to buy a car battery, that's robbery. 
    cornchip
  • Reply 77 of 173
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 5,007administrator
    jdw said:
    It's a question of chemistry and physics. That's got more to do with the physical size of the battery in the MacBook. Bigger battery means more reactants to fuel the reaction, a larger cathode and anode surface, and longer time to depletion.

    And -- this isn't really new. For sure in white plastic MacBooks, if you had a dead, or no, battery, the machine down clocked itself because there just wasn't enough power to run safely even when you were on AC.
    edited December 2017 netmage
  • Reply 78 of 173
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 5,007administrator

    MonicaMT said:
    This respond does not convince me.I can use a power bank If I do not want my iPhone to shut down.
    I recently bought iPhone X just because my iPhone 6 is too slow to use.If this happens again,I would absolutely choose another mobile phone brand.
    Three full years of a chemical process running day in and day out, and you don't expect your battery to die?
    cornchipmagman1979netmage
  • Reply 79 of 173
    My iPhone 6 plays very well before iPhone8/8 plus/X was published.But after that...I recently bought an iPhone X because of this.
    I'm just curious that why is this such a coincidence???
    Feel like somebody stole 
    1,149 USD from me.
  • Reply 80 of 173
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,427member
    Wow Business Insider is raking Apple over the coals on this. Ridiculous. I’m really not sure what the big huff is over this. My 5s is On it’s third screen & 2nd battery. Runs great. 

    Anything they can do to catch them “red handed” tho. Acting like Apple is trying screw people into buying new phones by having OS compensate for battery degradation? How big of a stretch can there be? 

    Raise of hands of people here who think Apple is outright lying?
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