China adds to government pressure on Apple over iPhone slowdowns

Posted:
in iPhone
Apple is facing yet another government-backed inquiry into revelations of deliberate iPhone performance throttling, as the Shanghai Consumer Council reportedly sought answers on Monday.




The council has "demanded the cause of the performance and remedy measures as well as complete information regarding the interests of consumers", according to state-run news agency Xinhua. Increased consumer complaints were cited as part of the request, with the council indicating that reported issues were up from 964 in 2015 to 2,615 in 2017.

Apple has been given until Friday to submit its reply.

Several governments have stepped in since Apple admitted that it deliberately throttles performance in iPhones with flagging batteries. The company subsequently issued an apology and dropped the price for a replacement battery to $29, actions which have not satisfied regulators.

Prior to the latest Shanghai request, inquiries have been made by the U.S. Senate, U.S. House of Representatives, and France's DGCCRF.

Apple's iPhones are among the most popular handsets sold in China, now the company's largest market. The iPhone 7 and 7 Plus finished 2017 as two of the 10 best-selling smartphones in the country.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 101
    mike54mike54 Posts: 146member
    Good. Apple deserves it.
    Now I wish governments would go after Intel for their security debacle which has a bigger and more important impact that will last for years.
    ClarityToSeeAvieshekfeudalist78Bandit
  • Reply 2 of 101
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 5,633member
    So, Apple can just send them a copy of their explanation and reasoning that was published weeks ago. What else are they supposed to provide? The crux of all these ‘investigations’ is to try and brand Apple with malicious, intentional planned obsolescence. How do they plan to prove that? Experts have already stated Apple’s solution is acceptable and only criticized Apple for not being more transparent about it. As for those asshats claiming they have the right to choose whether their phones just randomly shut down or whether to slow things down to prevent said shutdowns, what kind of “choice” is that? That kind of “choice” is stupid, just like the asshats who want to be able to install whatever kind of crap they want to and use it to justify jailbreaking.
    edited January 15 magman1979brisancefastasleepRayz2016watto_cobrabshankdavenJWSC
  • Reply 3 of 101
    mike54 said:
    Good. Apple deserves it.
    Now I wish governments would go after Intel for their security debacle which has a bigger and more important impact that will last for years.
    Great, another uneducated armchair commentator who thinks he knows everything and makes asinine comments pushing forward a pitchfork agenda against Apple... Getting sick of seeing this stupid BS online...
    anantksundarammac_dogfastasleepRayz2016Scot1watto_cobraGeorgeBMaccharlesgresbshankdaven
  • Reply 4 of 101
    jdwjdw Posts: 567member
    Even though such would be going against what Apple normally does, they could please everybody with a simply Preference setting:

    ON = Slow my phone as my battery ages so I get more life out of my battery.

    OFF = Allow my phone to suddenly and randomly shut off as the battery ages.

     It really is that simple.
    edited January 15 baconstangbrisanceanantksundaramLatkowatto_cobrapropodClarityToSeebeowulfschmidtbshankdaven
  • Reply 5 of 101
    ClarityToSeeClarityToSee Posts: 25unconfirmed, member
    Thanks for the Engadget article link above Brisance.  It definitely sheds more light on the issues with alternative device options.  I do agree with you that the problem with alternatives like Samsung is two-fold, one lacking proper hardware quality controls and two bloatware. Hence I have stayed firmly in Apple’s camp so far.
    But this IPhone slow down and inferior battery deployment is a major issue that I would like to see them address sooner rather than later.  And I don’t mean addressing by offering a temporary program of ten months to pay $29 to replace a battery but rather addressing by a permanent fix to the problem by genuinely using better power retaining batteries like Samsung, but with better hardware quality controls like Apple is known for.
    feudalist
  • Reply 6 of 101
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,348member
    Thanks for the Engadget article link above Brisance.  It definitely sheds more light on the issues with alternative device options.  I do agree with you that the problem with alternatives like Samsung is two-fold, one lacking proper hardware quality controls and two bloatware. Hence I have stayed firmly in Apple’s camp so far.
    But this IPhone slow down and inferior battery deployment is a major issue that I would like to see them address sooner rather than later.  And I don’t mean addressing by offering a temporary program of ten months to pay $29 to replace a battery but rather addressing by a permanent fix to the problem by genuinely using better power retaining batteries like Samsung, but with better hardware quality controls like Apple is known for.

    Bigger batteries are less stressed, Samsung CPU have deplorable single thread peaks with stresses the battery less, Smaller phones more stress, etc, etc, etc.

    Samsung's batteries in the current phones are ripe with problems (not to mention the Note). What's your fracking explanation there huh bud.

    So, you just lied again. Just stop lying. You're not fooling anyone buddy.
    edited January 16 watto_cobraGeorgeBMacbshankStrangeDays
  • Reply 7 of 101
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 3,151member
    foggyhill said:
    Thanks for the Engadget article link above Brisance.  It definitely sheds more light on the issues with alternative device options.  I do agree with you that the problem with alternatives like Samsung is two-fold, one lacking proper hardware quality controls and two bloatware. Hence I have stayed firmly in Apple’s camp so far.
    But this IPhone slow down and inferior battery deployment is a major issue that I would like to see them address sooner rather than later.  And I don’t mean addressing by offering a temporary program of ten months to pay $29 to replace a battery but rather addressing by a permanent fix to the problem by genuinely using better power retaining batteries like Samsung, but with better hardware quality controls like Apple is known for.

    Bigger batteries are less stressed, Samsung CPU have deplorable single thread peaks with stresses the battery less, Smaller phones, less stress, etc, etc, etc.

    Samsung's batteries in the current phones are ripe with problems (not to mention the Note). What's your fracking explanation there huh bud.

    So, you just lied again. Just stop lying. You're not fooling anyone buddy.
    The irony is that Apple has been using AI to slow down and speed up the processor for some time, and for other reasons besides battery age. And this is something every other high end manufacturer has been doing for years. No phone chip runs at full speed all the time. If it did then the battery would probably last two hours at the most. 

    In response to the iPhone aged battery thing, both Samsung and LG released statements saying that they do not throttle phones with aged batteries. What they didn’t say was that they don’t throttle phones at all. 

    As as far as I remember, the only phone that ran its components at full speed was the Samsung Note4 – and even then it only ran at full speed when it detected it was running a benchmark test. 
    edited January 16 fotoformatwatto_cobraGeorgeBMacbshankJWSCMacsplosionjony0
  • Reply 8 of 101
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 3,151member
    brisance said:
    I think this is a wrong channel to be expressing concerns about Apple’s intentional slow down of phones for this is the core of Apple fan boy club. Although, I consider myself to be a part of this club with one distinction, no blind loyalty like some others here. 
    I am seriously considering giving Samsung a try.  Their battery retention rate in their latest phones after 500 cycles is 95% compared to 80% of Apple’s according to WSJ. And they don’t slow down their phones either. The only thing I am worried about is their bloatware and unwanted bixby. 
    After Mossberg left I can’t trust anything that comes from WSJ about Apple. 

    FYI the Samsung Note 8 has issues as well. https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/01/there-may-be-a-fix-for-galaxy-note-8-battery-charging-issues/
    Yup, sounds like a bug in their power management rather than a problem with the battery. 

    This is probably why Apple shuts down the phone at around 2% charge. 
    watto_cobraGeorgeBMacjony0
  • Reply 9 of 101
    Does this battery issue apply to iPads too? Surely it does.
  • Reply 10 of 101
    croprcropr Posts: 676member
    lkrupp said:
    So, Apple can just send them a copy of their explanation and reasoning that was published weeks ago. What else are they supposed to provide? The crux of all these ‘investigations’ is to try and brand Apple with malicious, intentional planned obsolescence. How do they plan to prove that? Experts have already stated Apple’s solution is acceptable and only criticized Apple for not being more transparent about it. As for those asshats claiming they have the right to choose whether their phones just randomly shut down or whether to slow things down to prevent said shutdowns, what kind of “choice” is that? That kind of “choice” is stupid, just like the asshats who want to be able to install whatever kind of crap they want to and use it to justify jailbreaking.
    There is a big difference between not being more transparent like you claim and what Apple actually did:  hiding the throttling from the customer until some clever guy came with the prove.  The former is a small communication issue, the latter could be interpreted as intentional. 

    Every customer with a a slow iPhone  who bought a new iPhone but who was not given the option to replace the battery, was mislead by Apple.   The fact that a lot of Apple Stores guided these customers to buy a new iPhone did not help to contradict the possible intentional character.

    The throttling itself is not the issue, the secrecy about it is. 
    holyonemuthuk_vanalingamClarityToSeebeowulfschmidtfeudalist
  • Reply 11 of 101
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,348member
    kkqd1337 said:
    Does this battery issue apply to iPads too? Surely it does.
    There is no battery issue. Never was.
    The "issue" is people thinking their batteries will last forever no matter how intensely they use them and Apple trying to keeping them from being faced with this delusion full on. Seems letting the phones die as per usual in this case (with ensuing "shock" at this real world tragedy..., would have been the better option seemingly).

    What Apple does is essentially power management which happens in phones of all vintage to prevent crapping up the battery life daily and overall battery life. Mobile phones are "throttled" almost ALL THE TIME or your phone wouldn't even last half a day. That's the funny thing about this dumbass outrage.

    For example, Apple used to have all big cores doing all the work and now and thus slowing them down slowed down all operations, while now it can shove part of the tasks to small cores as fast as possible to save power while keeping those that need the juice on the big cores. Well the algorythm that does that must be heavily tuned so as not to affect UI and user performance; matching usage to ressources is an art. Some edge cases undoubtably will see this slow down but probably less than before when everything was run on the big cores (like the Iphone 6 and 6s).

    That's why I expect later Apple SOC to work better under degraded battery than earlier versions.

    Since the batteries are so much bigger with much better thermals (heat dissipation) and less environmental stresses (used in very cold or hot weather), and Ipad's rarely are run through full charging cycles every day (which are particularly bad for batteries), it can take a long long time before the batteries get degraded to the same point as in a phone, at a minimum many years (I'd estimate 3-4 at a minimum even under heavy use). By that time, most people would already realize that the battery is losing juice and not be surprised with degraded performance.

    The reason this hit harder here is that many heavy Iphone users these days can reach 700 full charge (meaning they've also put their phone under thermal stress due to intensive use) cycles within 12-18 months.  You can easly discharge your phone completely at least twice a day if you use say GPS, bluetooth music and are on the net plus running several background apps and playing a few AA games.
    watto_cobraGeorgeBMacStrangeDays
  • Reply 12 of 101
    LatkoLatko Posts: 36member
    Rayz2016 said:
    foggyhill said:
    Thanks for the Engadget article link above Brisance.  It definitely sheds more light on the issues with alternative device options.  I do agree with you that the problem with alternatives like Samsung is two-fold, one lacking proper hardware quality controls and two bloatware. Hence I have stayed firmly in Apple’s camp so far.
    But this IPhone slow down and inferior battery deployment is a major issue that I would like to see them address sooner rather than later.  And I don’t mean addressing by offering a temporary program of ten months to pay $29 to replace a battery but rather addressing by a permanent fix to the problem by genuinely using better power retaining batteries like Samsung, but with better hardware quality controls like Apple is known for.

    Bigger batteries are less stressed, Samsung CPU have deplorable single thread peaks with stresses the battery less, Smaller phones, less stress, etc, etc, etc.

    Samsung's batteries in the current phones are ripe with problems (not to mention the Note). What's your fracking explanation there huh bud.

    So, you just lied again. Just stop lying. You're not fooling anyone buddy.
    The irony is that Apple has been using AI to slow down and speed up the processor for some time, and for other reasons besides battery age.
    That AI that you mention (which is redundant on chips running their own mng'd performance) should have been the most elementary form of EI: detecting a batt-based shutdown and offering the user the choice to throttle or not. How difficult is that (and how amazing the current CEO's leadership...)
    edited January 16
  • Reply 13 of 101
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 3,151member
    Latko said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    foggyhill said:
    Thanks for the Engadget article link above Brisance.  It definitely sheds more light on the issues with alternative device options.  I do agree with you that the problem with alternatives like Samsung is two-fold, one lacking proper hardware quality controls and two bloatware. Hence I have stayed firmly in Apple’s camp so far.
    But this IPhone slow down and inferior battery deployment is a major issue that I would like to see them address sooner rather than later.  And I don’t mean addressing by offering a temporary program of ten months to pay $29 to replace a battery but rather addressing by a permanent fix to the problem by genuinely using better power retaining batteries like Samsung, but with better hardware quality controls like Apple is known for.

    Bigger batteries are less stressed, Samsung CPU have deplorable single thread peaks with stresses the battery less, Smaller phones, less stress, etc, etc, etc.

    Samsung's batteries in the current phones are ripe with problems (not to mention the Note). What's your fracking explanation there huh bud.

    So, you just lied again. Just stop lying. You're not fooling anyone buddy.
    The irony is that Apple has been using AI to slow down and speed up the processor for some time, and for other reasons besides battery age.
    That AI that you mention (which is redundant on chips running their own mng'd performance) should have been the most elementary form of EI: detecting a batt-based shutdown and offering the user the choice to throttle or not. How difficult is that (and how amazing the current CEO's leadership...)
    Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. First Officer Grimble and I have detected a problem with the aircraft’s power management systems. In response to this the flight attendants will be coming around with a short customer service form. Tick option 1 if you’d prefer a safe landing now, or option 2 if you’d prefer to carry on with a fair chance that we’ll plunge from the sky in flames. 

    The reason there will be no option is because Apple knows that everyone (including all the people who’re demanding a choice) will always pick a slower phone over a crashing one. Apple engineers are not going to include an option no one will use. 
    edited January 16 watto_cobraGeorgeBMacbshankjkichline78BanditJWSCStrangeDays
  • Reply 14 of 101
    jumejume Posts: 133member
    mike54 said:
    Good. Apple deserves it.
    Now I wish governments would go after Intel for their security debacle which has a bigger and more important impact that will last for years.
    Great, another uneducated armchair commentator who thinks he knows everything and makes asinine comments pushing forward a pitchfork agenda against Apple... Getting sick of seeing this stupid BS online...
    It's not stupid bullshit. It was made deliberately to sell more phones and there was no communication to us or Apple store workers to handle this in the right way when your phone gets slow. Nobody knew this was because of old battery. I still don't believe it's just because of the old battery. I have replaced mine. The settings do not show warning of crippled battery, but the phone is still utterly slow. Nothing like first two years when I bought it. And don't shit me it's the apps thing. I have the same apps from the day I bought my iPhone 6. 

    Get ok with it. Apple screwed up big time here and it's time to pay back.

    I wonder what would be your and other fanboy alike comments if this was Samsung case?!? You would probably shit all over Samsung for it... Grow up kids. Apple make great products, but their quality is very questionable in recent years. It's not just #throttlegate. Also premium priced iPhoneX doesn't feel that premium at all and it's full of usability quirks. For the most expensive product in it's niche you would not expect that.

    There should be more pressure on Apple. They need to step up their game and improve!
    edited January 16 muthuk_vanalingamholyoneClarityToSee
  • Reply 15 of 101
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 4,881member
    mike54 said:
    Good. Apple deserves it.
    Now I wish governments would go after Intel for their security debacle which has a bigger and more important impact that will last for years.
    That was a mistake though  (unless it was a genuine backdoor, but I doubt it). 
  • Reply 16 of 101
    lkrupp said:
    So, Apple can just send them a copy of their explanation and reasoning that was published weeks ago. What else are they supposed to provide? The crux of all these ‘investigations’ is to try and brand Apple with malicious, intentional planned obsolescence. How do they plan to prove that? Experts have already stated Apple’s solution is acceptable and only criticized Apple for not being more transparent about it. As for those asshats claiming they have the right to choose whether their phones just randomly shut down or whether to slow things down to prevent said shutdowns, what kind of “choice” is that? That kind of “choice” is stupid, just like the asshats who want to be able to install whatever kind of crap they want to and use it to justify jailbreaking.
    The "asshats" as you call them want the best of both worlds:
    -- Apple manages its iPhones even after their sale to insure they operate at their best in all ways possible.  That often involves compromise -- such as the current "is slowing worse than a complete shutdown?"
    -- Microsoft/HP, etc... take a hands off approach.  Once you buy it you can do whatever you want with it.  But, you are essentially on your own -- for good or for bad.

    Each approach has its advantages and disadvantages.
    But, you can't have the benefits of a fully managed system without giving up some of the freedoms of an unmanaged system.

    This isn't the first time Apple has been condemned by the uninformed for managing their products.  It won't be the last.

    But, it is also complicated by the Jobs' legacy of simplicity -- where there aren't a lot of detailed instructions.  Rather, like the instruction manual on one of the original Ataris:   "Avoid Klingons"

    StrangeDays
  • Reply 17 of 101
    Rayz2016 said:
    foggyhill said:
    Thanks for the Engadget article link above Brisance.  It definitely sheds more light on the issues with alternative device options.  I do agree with you that the problem with alternatives like Samsung is two-fold, one lacking proper hardware quality controls and two bloatware. Hence I have stayed firmly in Apple’s camp so far.
    But this IPhone slow down and inferior battery deployment is a major issue that I would like to see them address sooner rather than later.  And I don’t mean addressing by offering a temporary program of ten months to pay $29 to replace a battery but rather addressing by a permanent fix to the problem by genuinely using better power retaining batteries like Samsung, but with better hardware quality controls like Apple is known for.

    Bigger batteries are less stressed, Samsung CPU have deplorable single thread peaks with stresses the battery less, Smaller phones, less stress, etc, etc, etc.

    Samsung's batteries in the current phones are ripe with problems (not to mention the Note). What's your fracking explanation there huh bud.

    So, you just lied again. Just stop lying. You're not fooling anyone buddy.
    The irony is that Apple has been using AI to slow down and speed up the processor for some time, and for other reasons besides battery age. And this is something every other high end manufacturer has been doing for years. No phone chip runs at full speed all the time. If it did then the battery would probably last two hours at the most. 

    In response to the iPhone aged battery thing, both Samsung and LG released statements saying that they do not throttle phones with aged batteries. What they didn’t say was that they don’t throttle phones at all. 

    As as far as I remember, the only phone that ran its components at full speed was the Samsung Note4 – and even then it only ran at full speed when it detected it was running a benchmark test. 
    Yep!   That's a good point that few have realized...
    Every CPU in every computer from every manufacturer is managed in a variety of ways....
    ...  Deal with it!
  • Reply 18 of 101
    cropr said:
    lkrupp said:
    So, Apple can just send them a copy of their explanation and reasoning that was published weeks ago. What else are they supposed to provide? The crux of all these ‘investigations’ is to try and brand Apple with malicious, intentional planned obsolescence. How do they plan to prove that? Experts have already stated Apple’s solution is acceptable and only criticized Apple for not being more transparent about it. As for those asshats claiming they have the right to choose whether their phones just randomly shut down or whether to slow things down to prevent said shutdowns, what kind of “choice” is that? That kind of “choice” is stupid, just like the asshats who want to be able to install whatever kind of crap they want to and use it to justify jailbreaking.
    There is a big difference between not being more transparent like you claim and what Apple actually did:  hiding the throttling from the customer until some clever guy came with the prove.  The former is a small communication issue, the latter could be interpreted as intentional. 

    Every customer with a a slow iPhone  who bought a new iPhone but who was not given the option to replace the battery, was mislead by Apple.   The fact that a lot of Apple Stores guided these customers to buy a new iPhone did not help to contradict the possible intentional character.

    The throttling itself is not the issue, the secrecy about it is. 
    Exactly, I and a few here have raised this very point and none of the grand AI zealots have ever addressed it, that's because there is no defense, there's a lot of conflating of two things which in regards to this legal matter have very little to do with each other, one is a solution to a technical flaw and the other, more relevant, is the PR strategy for said solution. The question will be did the lack of public awerness unduly benefit Apple .i.e. an average person noticing their device slugish after an OS update and poorly informed make an incorrect conclusion that their device is out dated and can no longer cope with moden softwear buy a new one, because an average person has no idea that battery quality has any correlation to processor speed, I for one didn't. So can @lkrupp @foggyhill and the rest please demonstrate to us all how a half descent lawyer couldn't make that stick.  
    muthuk_vanalingamClarityToSee
  • Reply 19 of 101
    cropr said:
    lkrupp said:
    So, Apple can just send them a copy of their explanation and reasoning that was published weeks ago. What else are they supposed to provide? The crux of all these ‘investigations’ is to try and brand Apple with malicious, intentional planned obsolescence. How do they plan to prove that? Experts have already stated Apple’s solution is acceptable and only criticized Apple for not being more transparent about it. As for those asshats claiming they have the right to choose whether their phones just randomly shut down or whether to slow things down to prevent said shutdowns, what kind of “choice” is that? That kind of “choice” is stupid, just like the asshats who want to be able to install whatever kind of crap they want to and use it to justify jailbreaking.
    There is a big difference between not being more transparent like you claim and what Apple actually did:  hiding the throttling from the customer until some clever guy came with the prove.  The former is a small communication issue, the latter could be interpreted as intentional. 

    Every customer with a a slow iPhone  who bought a new iPhone but who was not given the option to replace the battery, was mislead by Apple.   The fact that a lot of Apple Stores guided these customers to buy a new iPhone did not help to contradict the possible intentional character.

    The throttling itself is not the issue, the secrecy about it is. 
    Sorry to ruin your conspiracy theory.   But, Apple manages every facet of their products even after the sale in order to insure the best customer experience with them.   And, it quite obviously works.  At the same time, Apple keeps it simple by simply producing and managing products that "just work" without long winded explanations -- or any explanation. 
    ... Deal with it.  Or, buy an Android...  But go away with your conspiracy theories...
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 20 of 101
    jume said:
    mike54 said:
    Good. Apple deserves it.
    Now I wish governments would go after Intel for their security debacle which has a bigger and more important impact that will last for years.
    Great, another uneducated armchair commentator who thinks he knows everything and makes asinine comments pushing forward a pitchfork agenda against Apple... Getting sick of seeing this stupid BS online...
    It's not stupid bullshit. It was made deliberately to sell more phones and there was no communication to us or Apple store workers to handle this in the right way when your phone gets slow. Nobody knew this was because of old battery. I still don't believe it's just because of the old battery. I have replaced mine. The settings do not show warning of crippled battery, but the phone is still utterly slow. Nothing like first two years when I bought it. And don't shit me it's the apps thing. I have the same apps from the day I bought my iPhone 6. 

    Get ok with it. Apple screwed up big time here and it's time to pay back.

    I wonder what would be your and other fanboy alike comments if this was Samsung case?!? You would probably shit all over Samsung for it... Grow up kids. Apple make great products, but their quality is very questionable in recent years. It's not just #throttlegate. Also premium priced iPhoneX doesn't feel that premium at all and it's full of usability quirks. For the most expensive product in it's niche you would not expect that.

    There should be more pressure on Apple. They need to step up their game and improve!
    So, you add to your rant of stupid (uninformed) bullshit...   Sad...
    StrangeDaysmagman1979
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