Editorial: Bloomberg spins Apple's Event as a desperate, blind stab for cheap iPads in edu...

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  • Reply 41 of 129
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,327member

    Another horribly biased, condescending, one-sided article by Daniel Dilger. I couldn’t read more than 5-6 paragraphs before giving up. I am just going skip his articles from now on. 
    Good, saves us from having to explain facts when you willfully choose to remain ignorant about them by refusing to read what hurts your narrative. 
    edited March 2018 netmagepscooter63magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 129
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,327member

    sfolax said:
    This "Editorial" is quite defensive over rumoured devices that haven't even been announced yet. Can't you just wait until they announced and then start defending?

    Also, these are just electronic devices. Imagine going back 10 years and reading the equivalent of these articles about Blackberries. How embarrassing for the writers.
    The defensive editorials are always a tell. If Apple was really winning in the classroom there would be no need for an editorial like this.
    Nah, the true tell is the butthurt — when the usual small bunch of butthurts come out of the woodwork complaining about DED editorials rife with facts then you know. You just can’t stand it when it’s proven that the usual Goolglers and Church of Marketshare people don’t know how to run a business as well as Apple does, proven time and time again. 
    edited March 2018 netmagemagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 129
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,327member

    I think Apple has lost their sense of "fun" in product design.
    Buy some AirPods or an X. I have both and they’re a joy to use. 
    pscooter63magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 129
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,327member
    Rayz2016 said:

    Anyway, here’s the takeaway from this article. 

    If a child uses a platform in school then he will carry on using that platform as an adult. 

    Daniel’s right: it’s a myth. If it wasn’t a myth then the iPad would never have sustained its lead. I used a PC throughout my formative years, and couldn’t wait to get off the platform as soon as I could afford it. 

    Furthermore, Apple knows it’s a myth

    Furthermore, I suspect that both Daniel and Apple know that once the kid gets home, the Chromebook is dropped in favour of the iPad, which the family can afford to buy because they got the Chromebook for nothing (thanks Google!). 
    Bingo, we have a winner. DED debunks what we know is a myth and butthurt ensues. Same as it ever was. 
    edited March 2018 pscooter63ericthehalfbeethtnetmagemagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 129
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,327member
    wizard69 said:
    Well i see DED is back to wasting bandwidth with a ton of crap that doesnt even touch upon Apples real problems in efucation. The number one issue with iPads is the lack of a keyboard which makes anything other than tribial text entry a psin. 

    The second issue  with iPad is pricing.  Apple in its ecessive greed raised the price on the whole line somehow completely mis understanding what people expect from the electronics industry!!  That is people in general, schools simply dont have the luxury of paying what ever Apple wants.  
    Er...but...I mean...iPads have gotten dramatically cheaper. $329 for a normal sized ipad is a steal. Kids don’t need the more expensive Pro models. So your little “But Apple is greedy!” trope is nonsense. Entry-level iPods, iPads, iPhones and Macs have provided immense value to the price-sensitive over the years. Far more than during the old days of Apple yore. The upper-tier offerings also offer great functionality as use case need increases.

    (I like how you littered your post with spelling errors to drive your point home?)
    edited March 2018 netmagemagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 129
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,327member

    Latko said:
    The school market is a lost chance for Apple - as long as it doesn’t deliver on the need for deployment tools (device management, app/version management, content mgt., rights/access mgt.) and keeps denying the need for multiple iOS accounts. Cook & co don’t even understand the concept of double instance multi-tasking (2 Word/Excel docs at the same time), making their post-PC claims near ridiculous. So an iPad with a pencil (if it comes at a Chromebook ‘s pricepoint to start with...) basically remains an overpriced sketchbook - that will never see structural implementation by the lack of a supporting infrastructure (what did Apple’s coopration with IBM bring in ?) A cheap repackaging effort that only underlines the lack of a broader understanding of the sectors’ device/content mgt. needs. Better stay out of this market - edu won’t match Cook’s premium financial prerequisites anyway and it would make Apple’s “thinking in the best interest of the customer” just a fluffy claim - as they only want to sell boxes
    The educational market is, and has always been, extremely price sensitive. Price sensitive markets aren't necessarily markets in which Apple should be attempting to compete. Apple makes aspirational devices and services. People who are used to using inferior alternatives should be desperate to buy and replace the old products with Apple products.
    Except Google’s product and services aren’t inferior to Apple’s. This argument was fine at a time when other companies products really were inferior to Apple’s. 
    Yeah, they are. To claim googles shitty UX software and shitty knockoff hardware is the same as Apple’s is an absurd joke and identifies your deeply entrenched agenda position as a concern troll. If they’re as good as you say I’d fully have expected you to switch and we’d be spared all the repetitive hand-wringing and teeth gnashing every time there’s a new announcement or launch. Yet...you haven’t.
    netmagepscooter63magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 129
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    netmagearthurbamagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 129
    And, for those who think the Chromebook is winning against the iPad or is better than the iPad, here's some food for thought from an Apple Distinguished Educator:
    https://www.swiftteacher.org/swift-teacher/2017/4/24/uh-oh-chromebook-meet-the-new-ipad
    arthurbamagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 129
    Rayz2016 said:

    Anyway, here’s the takeaway from this article. 

    If a child uses a platform in school then he will carry on using that platform as an adult. 

    Daniel’s right: it’s a myth. If it wasn’t a myth then the iPad would never have sustained its lead. I used a PC throughout my formative years, and couldn’t wait to get off the platform as soon as I could afford it. 

    Furthermore, Apple knows it’s a myth

    Furthermore, I suspect that both Daniel and Apple know that once the kid gets home, the Chromebook is dropped in favour of the iPad, which the family can afford to buy because they got the Chromebook for nothing (thanks Google!). 
    Bingo, we have a winner. DED debunks what we know is a myth and butthurt ensues. Same as it ever was. 
    Sorry but DED didn't debunk anything. He just spread his narrative which we all know is always self serving to Apple. He will twist facts to make sure that Apple looks better. If you really think that DED isn't the one that has more reason to twist the facts as opposed to a non partisan site like Bloomberg then you're being slightly naive.
    muthuk_vanalingamrogerramjet
  • Reply 50 of 129
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 

    So you might want to educate yourself before you just automatically assume that your dislike of Google is the truth. Google never denied it does track data (Apple does too on it's products), the point is that Google doesn't use that data to sell ads, etc. It's only used for product improvement when it comes to the education market.
    edited March 2018 techrules
  • Reply 51 of 129
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,877member
    And, for those who think the Chromebook is winning against the iPad or is better than the iPad, here's some food for thought from an Apple Distinguished Educator:
    https://www.swiftteacher.org/swift-teacher/2017/4/24/uh-oh-chromebook-meet-the-new-ipad

    Here's another viewpoint from a someone with extensive experience deploying iPads & Chromebooks in the UK:

    1.  

    2.  


    3.  


    4.   


    5.  
    arthurbatechrules
  • Reply 52 of 129
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 

    So you might want to educate yourself before you just automatically assume that your dislike of Google is the truth. Google never denied it does track data (Apple does too on it's products), the point is that Google doesn't use that data to sell ads, etc. It's only used for product improvement when it comes to the education market.
    Did you actually take the time to read through EFF's report? If Google's only intention in mining all that data of school kids was benign, I doubt EFF would've made a formal complaint to the FTC or spent as much time as it did in conducting that survey and compiling that report to raise awareness about the issue.

    Incidentally, the company I own is a reseller partner for GSuite, so it's not as if I have an obsessive hatred of all things Google. That doesn't stop me, though, from carefully evaluating what Google has to offer, especially the stuff it gives away for free or at low cost. GSuite being a paid, enterprise service is a different ball game from the free Google services.
    netmagemagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 129
    And, for those who think the Chromebook is winning against the iPad or is better than the iPad, here's some food for thought from an Apple Distinguished Educator:
    https://www.swiftteacher.org/swift-teacher/2017/4/24/uh-oh-chromebook-meet-the-new-ipad

    Here's another viewpoint from a someone with extensive experience deploying iPads & Chromebooks in the UK:

    1.  

    2.  

    3.  

    4.   

    5.  
    I am quite sure no one here was making a case for an iOS laptop, better typing, cheaper iPad or a more rugged iPad, so not sure about the relevance of those comments for this discussion.

    But, his other thoughts are probably spot on. I sometimes wonder why Apple doesn't simply buy JAMF or work out some agreement with them - those guys do a great job with deploying and managing Apple devices in the enterprise, which would easily solve one of the major problems schools seem to be having. Or, may it's a lot more nuanced than just that.

    Oh, well, I guess we will know what Apple has up its sleeve, come Tuesday.
    arthurba
  • Reply 54 of 129
    gatorguy said:
    Is Google still data mining kids in school?
    Did you look? It's not hidden info. By the way are you still beating your partner?
    https://edu.google.com/k-12-solutions/privacy-security/?modal_active=none


    Ah, did the joke on behalf of your employer hit a nerve?
    pscooter63magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 129
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    netmagepscooter63arthurbamagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 129
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,309member
    I agree:   Bloomberg missed the boat.
    But I think AI did here as well...

    It's not about hardware sales, marketshare or margins.  Actually, the opposite.

    Grocery stores will knowingly sell something at a loss simply to get you into their store -- where they know that they'll make up for that loss with other sales.  Likewise, McDonald's lures kids in with promises of playgrounds an HappyMeals...

    I think Google is doing the same:  Using cash strapped school districts to lure unsuspecting grade schoolers into their ecosystem where they hope to trap them into a prison of Google Docs -- and have unrestricted access to their data and personal habits.

    Remember, Bill Gates didn't capture the PC market with superior technology.   His was superior marketing.
    arthurba
  • Reply 57 of 129
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,452member
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Yeah, we know what EFF said with no one else backing them up on the claim.  The same EFF that said trust Google because Apple won't protect you from government intrusions? Yah that EFF. 
  • Reply 58 of 129
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,929member

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    Define winning? Despite your predictable hurt over a DED piece, he again backs up the piece with reason. Market share without revenue and profit is not winning. You can’t not make money and then “make it up in volume!” That isn’t sustainable. As he cited, the chrome numbers are pathetically small, and ipad is certainly out-winning.
    Haha back to the old but Apple had the most profits canard. If schools are choosing Chromebooks over iPads then Google is winning. Google’s business model isn’t making money off pricey hardware. Doesn’t mean they’re losing at anything.
    edited March 2018 GeorgeBMaccanukstormmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 59 of 129
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,929member

    sfolax said:
    This "Editorial" is quite defensive over rumoured devices that haven't even been announced yet. Can't you just wait until they announced and then start defending?

    Also, these are just electronic devices. Imagine going back 10 years and reading the equivalent of these articles about Blackberries. How embarrassing for the writers.
    The defensive editorials are always a tell. If Apple was really winning in the classroom there would be no need for an editorial like this.
    Nah, the true tell is the butthurt — when the usual small bunch of butthurts come out of the woodwork complaining about DED editorials rife with facts then you know. You just can’t stand it when it’s proven that the usual Goolglers and Church of Marketshare people don’t know how to run a business as well as Apple does, proven time and time again. 
    Rife with facts? LOL. Maybe selective “facts” to fit a narrative.
    muthuk_vanalingamrogerramjet
  • Reply 60 of 129
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,929member

    Latko said:
    The school market is a lost chance for Apple - as long as it doesn’t deliver on the need for deployment tools (device management, app/version management, content mgt., rights/access mgt.) and keeps denying the need for multiple iOS accounts. Cook & co don’t even understand the concept of double instance multi-tasking (2 Word/Excel docs at the same time), making their post-PC claims near ridiculous. So an iPad with a pencil (if it comes at a Chromebook ‘s pricepoint to start with...) basically remains an overpriced sketchbook - that will never see structural implementation by the lack of a supporting infrastructure (what did Apple’s coopration with IBM bring in ?) A cheap repackaging effort that only underlines the lack of a broader understanding of the sectors’ device/content mgt. needs. Better stay out of this market - edu won’t match Cook’s premium financial prerequisites anyway and it would make Apple’s “thinking in the best interest of the customer” just a fluffy claim - as they only want to sell boxes
    The educational market is, and has always been, extremely price sensitive. Price sensitive markets aren't necessarily markets in which Apple should be attempting to compete. Apple makes aspirational devices and services. People who are used to using inferior alternatives should be desperate to buy and replace the old products with Apple products.
    Except Google’s product and services aren’t inferior to Apple’s. This argument was fine at a time when other companies products really were inferior to Apple’s. 
    Yeah, they are. To claim googles shitty UX software and shitty knockoff hardware is the same as Apple’s is an absurd joke and identifies your deeply entrenched agenda position as a concern troll. If they’re as good as you say I’d fully have expected you to switch and we’d be spared all the repetitive hand-wringing and teeth gnashing every time there’s a new announcement or launch. Yet...you haven’t.
    That’s your opinion. Not fact. Sheesh even huge Apple supporter Rene Ritchie isn’t this much of a sycophant.

    https://www.imore.com/no-2-pencil-analyzing-apple-education

    https://www.imore.com/state-apple-education
    canukstorm
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