Editorial: Bloomberg spins Apple's Event as a desperate, blind stab for cheap iPads in edu...

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  • Reply 61 of 129
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,922member
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    mac_128avon b7muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 62 of 129
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,451member
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    They've also welcomed Google ads into Apple News...
    and contracted Google to handle your iCloud server data...
    and agreed to make Google your Spotlight Search default provider...
    and agreed to make Google your default Safari search provider... 

     Gosh Apple seems to trust Google a whole lot, heartily endorsing them to their users. That Ericthehalfbee or Strangedays doesn't agree with Apple's choices is fine, but won't change Apple's decisions as they clearly consider them trustworthy and a preferred partner for some Apple services.  

    Unless of course those members or others think Apple sold 'em out for 30 pieces of silver instead,  but that would open up an entirely new set of trust issues. Yeah, I didn't think so. 
    edited March 2018 mac_128muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 63 of 129
    Addressing the Bloomberg article’s narrative around the Chromebook success story is fair enough, but betting against Gurman’s accuracy at what will be unveiled at the event is something else... we won’t know for sure until the event itself of course, but Gurman has a terrific track record at accurately revealing forthcoming products and event details. There’s a chance he might have this one wrong of course, but Gurman missteps are rare indeed. 
  • Reply 64 of 129
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,874member
    mr lizard said:
    Addressing the Bloomberg article’s narrative around the Chromebook success story is fair enough, but betting against Gurman’s accuracy at what will be unveiled at the event is something else... we won’t know for sure until the event itself of course, but Gurman has a terrific track record at accurately revealing forthcoming products and event details. There’s a chance he might have this one wrong of course, but Gurman missteps are rare indeed. 
    That is true.
  • Reply 65 of 129
    NotsofastNotsofast Posts: 370member
    It may have got lost in the weeds, but at least when it comes to tablets, it is fake news that the iPad is in bad shape in the education market.  Last quarter (?) Apple sold over a million iPads in the education market and was the number 1 tablet.  A great example is the St. Paul public school district, by no means a wealthy district, decided to buy 40K iPads so every student and teacher would have one.  
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 66 of 129
    This editorial reeks of so much defensive desperation that I have a difficult time buying into any of the conclusions the author is attempting to put forth.


    muthuk_vanalingamrogerramjet
  • Reply 67 of 129
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,922member
    gatorguy said:
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    They've also welcomed Google ads into Apple News...
    and contracted Google to handle your iCloud server data...
    and agreed to make Google your Spotlight Search default provider...
    and agreed to make Google your default Safari search provider... 

     Gosh Apple seems to trust Google a whole lot, heartily endorsing them to their users. That Ericthehalfbee or Strangedays doesn't agree with Apple's choices is fine, but won't change Apple's decisions as they clearly consider them trustworthy and a preferred partner for some Apple services.  

    Unless of course those members or others think Apple sold 'em out for 30 pieces of silver instead,  but that would open up an entirely new set of trust issues. Yeah, I didn't think so. 
    I’d be curious to know how many iOS device owners use Google Maps, Google Docs and have a GMail account. A Reuters poll that just came out has the public trusting Google, Microsoft and Amazon more than Apple to obey privacy laws. 

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-facebook-poll/americans-less-likely-to-trust-facebook-than-rivals-on-personal-data-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1H10K3

    Not sure why only 53% trust Apple but I’ve often wondered if privacy is a big deal for Apple customers or if Apple executives just use it as a crutch in areas where their services aren’t as good as the competition. On the one hand I do think Apple uses privacy as crutch. On the other hand I think the issues with Siri and other Apple services go beyond Apple’s privacy stance. For example this afternoon I was getting ready to go for a walk. It was about 38F and sunny. I asked Siri if it was windy out. Siri replied and said no and then said the winds were 15 mph. OK I’ve had other times where Siri would say yes, it does seem windy out and then tell me they were like 9 mph. Another example, I live in a cold weather state. It’s the middle of January and and is 35F and when I ask Siri what the temp is Siri comes back with Brrr it’s x degrees right now. OK 35F in January is cold for Cupertino but it’s not cold for the state I live in. These are just tiny examples but none of them are privacy related.
  • Reply 68 of 129
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,653member
    gatorguy said:
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    They've also welcomed Google ads into Apple News...
    and contracted Google to handle your iCloud server data...
    and agreed to make Google your Spotlight Search default provider...
    and agreed to make Google your default Safari search provider... 

     Gosh Apple seems to trust Google a whole lot, heartily endorsing them to their users. That Ericthehalfbee or Strangedays doesn't agree with Apple's choices is fine, but won't change Apple's decisions as they clearly consider them trustworthy and a preferred partner for some Apple services.  

    Unless of course those members or others think Apple sold 'em out for 30 pieces of silver instead,  but that would open up an entirely new set of trust issues. Yeah, I didn't think so. 
    I’d be curious to know how many iOS device owners use Google Maps, Google Docs and have a GMail account. A Reuters poll that just came out has the public trusting Google, Microsoft and Amazon more than Apple to obey privacy laws. 

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-facebook-poll/americans-less-likely-to-trust-facebook-than-rivals-on-personal-data-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1H10K3

    Not sure why only 53% trust Apple but I’ve often wondered if privacy is a big deal for Apple customers or if Apple executives just use it as a crutch in areas where their services aren’t as good as the competition. On the one hand I do think Apple uses privacy as crutch. On the other hand I think the issues with Siri and other Apple services go beyond Apple’s privacy stance. For example this afternoon I was getting ready to go for a walk. It was about 38F and sunny. I asked Siri if it was windy out. Siri replied and said no and then said the winds were 15 mph. OK I’ve had other times where Siri would say yes, it does seem windy out and then tell me they were like 9 mph. Another example, I live in a cold weather state. It’s the middle of January and and is 35F and when I ask Siri what the temp is Siri comes back with Brrr it’s x degrees right now. OK 35F in January is cold for Cupertino but it’s not cold for the state I live in. These are just tiny examples but none of them are privacy related.
    I have to use Google Maps because Apple Maps doesn't have anywhere near the same coverage or detail as Google in my part of the world.
    muthuk_vanalingamarthurba
  • Reply 69 of 129
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,874member
    gatorguy said:
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    They've also welcomed Google ads into Apple News...
    and contracted Google to handle your iCloud server data...
    and agreed to make Google your Spotlight Search default provider...
    and agreed to make Google your default Safari search provider... 

     Gosh Apple seems to trust Google a whole lot, heartily endorsing them to their users. That Ericthehalfbee or Strangedays doesn't agree with Apple's choices is fine, but won't change Apple's decisions as they clearly consider them trustworthy and a preferred partner for some Apple services.  

    Unless of course those members or others think Apple sold 'em out for 30 pieces of silver instead,  but that would open up an entirely new set of trust issues. Yeah, I didn't think so. 
    I’d be curious to know how many iOS device owners use Google Maps, Google Docs and have a GMail account. A Reuters poll that just came out has the public trusting Google, Microsoft and Amazon more than Apple to obey privacy laws. 

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-facebook-poll/americans-less-likely-to-trust-facebook-than-rivals-on-personal-data-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1H10K3

    Not sure why only 53% trust Apple but I’ve often wondered if privacy is a big deal for Apple customers or if Apple executives just use it as a crutch in areas where their services aren’t as good as the competition. On the one hand I do think Apple uses privacy as crutch. On the other hand I think the issues with Siri and other Apple services go beyond Apple’s privacy stance. For example this afternoon I was getting ready to go for a walk. It was about 38F and sunny. I asked Siri if it was windy out. Siri replied and said no and then said the winds were 15 mph. OK I’ve had other times where Siri would say yes, it does seem windy out and then tell me they were like 9 mph. Another example, I live in a cold weather state. It’s the middle of January and and is 35F and when I ask Siri what the temp is Siri comes back with Brrr it’s x degrees right now. OK 35F in January is cold for Cupertino but it’s not cold for the state I live in. These are just tiny examples but none of them are privacy related.
    "Not sure why only 53% trust Apple but I’ve often wondered if privacy is a big deal for Apple customers or if Apple executives just use it as a crutch in areas where their services aren’t as good as the competition."

    That sums it up right there.  Even in schools that deploy iPads, many of those iPads are running Google's services, not Apple's. The more people that use Google's services, the more Google wins.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 70 of 129
    Latko said:
    The school market is a lost chance for Apple - as long as it doesn’t deliver on the need for deployment tools (device management, app/version management, content mgt., rights/access mgt.) and keeps denying the need for multiple iOS accounts. Cook & co don’t even understand the concept of double instance multi-tasking (2 Word/Excel docs at the same time), making their post-PC claims near ridiculous. So an iPad with a pencil (if it comes at a Chromebook ‘s pricepoint to start with...) basically remains an overpriced sketchbook - that will never see structural implementation by the lack of a supporting infrastructure (what did Apple’s coopration with IBM bring in ?) A cheap repackaging effort that only underlines the lack of a broader understanding of the sectors’ device/content mgt. needs. Better stay out of this market - edu won’t match Cook’s premium financial prerequisites anyway and it would make Apple’s “thinking in the best interest of the customer” just a fluffy claim - as they only want to sell boxes
    The educational market is, and has always been, extremely price sensitive. Price sensitive markets aren't necessarily markets in which Apple should be attempting to compete. Apple makes aspirational devices and services. People who are used to using inferior alternatives should be desperate to buy and replace the old products with Apple products.
    I don't think the education market has always been price sensitive: there would never be a mac at school if this was the case. The comparison of Chromebooks to other devices misses two big points: Chromebooks are a network client for Google's education platform, which is superior to competitor offerings. Windows and Apple devices still sell apps on things, Chromebooks are access to GSuite for Education/Google Classroom. The other point is that Chromebooks don't require much expertise to look after. They are secure, they deploy and upgrade with no effort, they are interchangeable. To a school, it's the first computing platform that is as easy to use as a textbook. You just hand them out. But it's the first point. I live in Australia, have a child at elementary school and my son is at secondary school. The elementary school is on Windows, the secondary school is Apple: Macbooks Pros at school, personal iPads. But in 2017, both schools introduced Google Classroom and GSuite.  This is the beginning of the end for Windows in the elementary school. The secondary school is a performing arts school, and I think the Macs will survive there due to some special apps. But the requirement for iPads ... I'm not so sure that will survive.  Meanwhile my nephew and niece are at regional schools that have converted to Chromebooks, and two of my friends kids too. These are my anecdotes, but the latest ChromeOS market share figures show a massive increase in ChromeOS market share in Australian education, despite the five-year warning the incumbents had. This massive growth is from a low base, but it's exactly what happened in the US.

    As for tablets, I don't use my Android tablet anymore. I have a AUD $600 Asus Flip which is fast, runs Android and Chrome apps. This is why Android tablets are dead. Chromebooks are a much better value proposition. At my son's school, every child has a keyboard case for their iPad. It's not mandated, but they all come to the same conclusion about the advantage of a keyboard. This indicates a big problem for iPads in the secondary school classroom, in my opinion. When you see this, the attraction of Chromebooks becomes perhaps clearer.
    edited March 2018 muthuk_vanalingamrogifan_new
  • Reply 71 of 129
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,297member
    gatorguy said:
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    They've also welcomed Google ads into Apple News...
    and contracted Google to handle your iCloud server data...
    and agreed to make Google your Spotlight Search default provider...
    and agreed to make Google your default Safari search provider... 

     Gosh Apple seems to trust Google a whole lot, heartily endorsing them to their users. That Ericthehalfbee or Strangedays doesn't agree with Apple's choices is fine, but won't change Apple's decisions as they clearly consider them trustworthy and a preferred partner for some Apple services.  

    Unless of course those members or others think Apple sold 'em out for 30 pieces of silver instead,  but that would open up an entirely new set of trust issues. Yeah, I didn't think so. 
    I’d be curious to know how many iOS device owners use Google Maps, Google Docs and have a GMail account. A Reuters poll that just came out has the public trusting Google, Microsoft and Amazon more than Apple to obey privacy laws. 

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-facebook-poll/americans-less-likely-to-trust-facebook-than-rivals-on-personal-data-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1H10K3

    Not sure why only 53% trust Apple but I’ve often wondered if privacy is a big deal for Apple customers or if Apple executives just use it as a crutch in areas where their services aren’t as good as the competition. On the one hand I do think Apple uses privacy as crutch. On the other hand I think the issues with Siri and other Apple services go beyond Apple’s privacy stance. For example this afternoon I was getting ready to go for a walk. It was about 38F and sunny. I asked Siri if it was windy out. Siri replied and said no and then said the winds were 15 mph. OK I’ve had other times where Siri would say yes, it does seem windy out and then tell me they were like 9 mph. Another example, I live in a cold weather state. It’s the middle of January and and is 35F and when I ask Siri what the temp is Siri comes back with Brrr it’s x degrees right now. OK 35F in January is cold for Cupertino but it’s not cold for the state I live in. These are just tiny examples but none of them are privacy related.
    I find it terrifying that people could be so incredibly STUPID!
    radarthekatmagman1979
  • Reply 72 of 129
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,297member
    Latko said:
    The school market is a lost chance for Apple - as long as it doesn’t deliver on the need for deployment tools (device management, app/version management, content mgt., rights/access mgt.) and keeps denying the need for multiple iOS accounts. Cook & co don’t even understand the concept of double instance multi-tasking (2 Word/Excel docs at the same time), making their post-PC claims near ridiculous. So an iPad with a pencil (if it comes at a Chromebook ‘s pricepoint to start with...) basically remains an overpriced sketchbook - that will never see structural implementation by the lack of a supporting infrastructure (what did Apple’s coopration with IBM bring in ?) A cheap repackaging effort that only underlines the lack of a broader understanding of the sectors’ device/content mgt. needs. Better stay out of this market - edu won’t match Cook’s premium financial prerequisites anyway and it would make Apple’s “thinking in the best interest of the customer” just a fluffy claim - as they only want to sell boxes
    The educational market is, and has always been, extremely price sensitive. Price sensitive markets aren't necessarily markets in which Apple should be attempting to compete. Apple makes aspirational devices and services. People who are used to using inferior alternatives should be desperate to buy and replace the old products with Apple products.
    I don't think the education market has always been price sensitive: there would never be a mac at school if this was the case. The comparison of Chromebooks to other devices misses two big points: Chromebooks are a network client for Google's education platform, which is superior to competitor offerings. Windows and Apple devices still sell apps on things, Chromebooks are access to GSuite for Education/Google Classroom. The other point is that Chromebooks don't require much expertise to look after. They are secure, they deploy and upgrade with no effort, they are interchangeable. To a school, it's the first computing platform that is as easy to use as a textbook. You just hand them out. But it's the first point. I live in Australia, have a child at elementary school and my son is at secondary school. The elementary school is on Windows, the secondary school is Apple: Macbooks Pros at school, personal iPads. But in 2017, both schools introduced Google Classroom and GSuite.  This is the beginning of the end for Windows in the elementary school. The secondary school is a performing arts school, and I think the Macs will survive there due to some special apps. But the requirement for iPads ... I'm not so sure that will survive.  Meanwhile my nephew and niece are at regional schools that have converted to Chromebooks, and two of my friends kids too. These are my anecdotes, but the latest ChromeOS market share figures show a massive increase in ChromeOS market share in Australian education, despite the five-year warning the incumbents had. This massive growth is from a low base, but it's exactly what happened in the US.

    As for tablets, I don't use my Android tablet anymore. I have a AUD $600 Asus Flip which is fast, runs Android and Chrome apps. This is why Android tablets are dead. Chromebooks are a much better value proposition. At my son's school, every child has a keyboard case for their iPad. It's not mandated, but they all come to the same conclusion about the advantage of a keyboard. This indicates a big problem for iPads in the secondary school classroom, in my opinion. When you see this, the attraction of Chromebooks becomes perhaps clearer.
    Thanks.... Well said!
    I glean from this two major points:
    1)  Chromebooks are cheap, easily deployed and maintained -- which makes the administration's job easier.
    2) They provide easy access to high quality Google Cloud apps such as Google Classroom which makes the teacher's job easier.

    Apple needs to approach this from the standpoint of the school rather than the student if they plan to challenge Google in this arena.  And, I think they need to:   Google is using this as a loss-leader to indoctrinate kids into THEIR eco system.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 73 of 129
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,874member
    Latko said:
    The school market is a lost chance for Apple - as long as it doesn’t deliver on the need for deployment tools (device management, app/version management, content mgt., rights/access mgt.) and keeps denying the need for multiple iOS accounts. Cook & co don’t even understand the concept of double instance multi-tasking (2 Word/Excel docs at the same time), making their post-PC claims near ridiculous. So an iPad with a pencil (if it comes at a Chromebook ‘s pricepoint to start with...) basically remains an overpriced sketchbook - that will never see structural implementation by the lack of a supporting infrastructure (what did Apple’s coopration with IBM bring in ?) A cheap repackaging effort that only underlines the lack of a broader understanding of the sectors’ device/content mgt. needs. Better stay out of this market - edu won’t match Cook’s premium financial prerequisites anyway and it would make Apple’s “thinking in the best interest of the customer” just a fluffy claim - as they only want to sell boxes
    The educational market is, and has always been, extremely price sensitive. Price sensitive markets aren't necessarily markets in which Apple should be attempting to compete. Apple makes aspirational devices and services. People who are used to using inferior alternatives should be desperate to buy and replace the old products with Apple products.
    I don't think the education market has always been price sensitive: there would never be a mac at school if this was the case. The comparison of Chromebooks to other devices misses two big points: Chromebooks are a network client for Google's education platform, which is superior to competitor offerings. Windows and Apple devices still sell apps on things, Chromebooks are access to GSuite for Education/Google Classroom. The other point is that Chromebooks don't require much expertise to look after. They are secure, they deploy and upgrade with no effort, they are interchangeable. To a school, it's the first computing platform that is as easy to use as a textbook. You just hand them out. But it's the first point. I live in Australia, have a child at elementary school and my son is at secondary school. The elementary school is on Windows, the secondary school is Apple: Macbooks Pros at school, personal iPads. But in 2017, both schools introduced Google Classroom and GSuite.  This is the beginning of the end for Windows in the elementary school. The secondary school is a performing arts school, and I think the Macs will survive there due to some special apps. But the requirement for iPads ... I'm not so sure that will survive.  Meanwhile my nephew and niece are at regional schools that have converted to Chromebooks, and two of my friends kids too. These are my anecdotes, but the latest ChromeOS market share figures show a massive increase in ChromeOS market share in Australian education, despite the five-year warning the incumbents had. This massive growth is from a low base, but it's exactly what happened in the US.

    As for tablets, I don't use my Android tablet anymore. I have a AUD $600 Asus Flip which is fast, runs Android and Chrome apps. This is why Android tablets are dead. Chromebooks are a much better value proposition. At my son's school, every child has a keyboard case for their iPad. It's not mandated, but they all come to the same conclusion about the advantage of a keyboard. This indicates a big problem for iPads in the secondary school classroom, in my opinion. When you see this, the attraction of Chromebooks becomes perhaps clearer.
    "As for tablets, I don't use my Android tablet anymore. I have a AUD $600 Asus Flip which is fast, runs Android and Chrome apps. This is why Android tablets are dead. Chromebooks are a much better value proposition. At my son's school, every child has a keyboard case for their iPad. It's not mandated, but they all come to the same conclusion about the advantage of a keyboard. This indicates a big problem for iPads in the secondary school classroom, in my opinion. When you see this, the attraction of Chromebooks becomes perhaps clearer."

    Great post and this last paragraph is very important. This is a big reason why MS is betting big on Windows 10 S (Now called Windows 10 in S mode) + ARM + Office 365 => it is their answer to Chromebook + Gsuite.  Also, I think the day of the dedicated tablet is waning. For most mainstream users a large-screen smartphone + laptop running a mobile OS (ChromeOS, Windows S, iOS) is all that they really need (key words being mainstream users).
    edited March 2018
  • Reply 74 of 129
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,874member
    gatorguy said:
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    They've also welcomed Google ads into Apple News...
    and contracted Google to handle your iCloud server data...
    and agreed to make Google your Spotlight Search default provider...
    and agreed to make Google your default Safari search provider... 

     Gosh Apple seems to trust Google a whole lot, heartily endorsing them to their users. That Ericthehalfbee or Strangedays doesn't agree with Apple's choices is fine, but won't change Apple's decisions as they clearly consider them trustworthy and a preferred partner for some Apple services.  

    Unless of course those members or others think Apple sold 'em out for 30 pieces of silver instead,  but that would open up an entirely new set of trust issues. Yeah, I didn't think so. 
    I’d be curious to know how many iOS device owners use Google Maps, Google Docs and have a GMail account. A Reuters poll that just came out has the public trusting Google, Microsoft and Amazon more than Apple to obey privacy laws. 

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-facebook-poll/americans-less-likely-to-trust-facebook-than-rivals-on-personal-data-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1H10K3

    Not sure why only 53% trust Apple but I’ve often wondered if privacy is a big deal for Apple customers or if Apple executives just use it as a crutch in areas where their services aren’t as good as the competition. On the one hand I do think Apple uses privacy as crutch. On the other hand I think the issues with Siri and other Apple services go beyond Apple’s privacy stance. For example this afternoon I was getting ready to go for a walk. It was about 38F and sunny. I asked Siri if it was windy out. Siri replied and said no and then said the winds were 15 mph. OK I’ve had other times where Siri would say yes, it does seem windy out and then tell me they were like 9 mph. Another example, I live in a cold weather state. It’s the middle of January and and is 35F and when I ask Siri what the temp is Siri comes back with Brrr it’s x degrees right now. OK 35F in January is cold for Cupertino but it’s not cold for the state I live in. These are just tiny examples but none of them are privacy related.
    This video clearly shows Steve Jobs' stance on privacy.  Contrast his views with that of Tim Cook.  If you listen carefully Jobs was never against collecting data.  He understood there are users that will give up more privacy in exchange for better services but they key is transparency: letting the user know exactly what you're collecting and what you're going to do with that data.  I hope the current Apple leadership is taking this into consideration because from the sounds of it, they come across as being data-phobic.


    arthurba
  • Reply 75 of 129
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,922member
    gatorguy said:
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    They've also welcomed Google ads into Apple News...
    and contracted Google to handle your iCloud server data...
    and agreed to make Google your Spotlight Search default provider...
    and agreed to make Google your default Safari search provider... 

     Gosh Apple seems to trust Google a whole lot, heartily endorsing them to their users. That Ericthehalfbee or Strangedays doesn't agree with Apple's choices is fine, but won't change Apple's decisions as they clearly consider them trustworthy and a preferred partner for some Apple services.  

    Unless of course those members or others think Apple sold 'em out for 30 pieces of silver instead,  but that would open up an entirely new set of trust issues. Yeah, I didn't think so. 
    I’d be curious to know how many iOS device owners use Google Maps, Google Docs and have a GMail account. A Reuters poll that just came out has the public trusting Google, Microsoft and Amazon more than Apple to obey privacy laws. 

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-facebook-poll/americans-less-likely-to-trust-facebook-than-rivals-on-personal-data-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN1H10K3

    Not sure why only 53% trust Apple but I’ve often wondered if privacy is a big deal for Apple customers or if Apple executives just use it as a crutch in areas where their services aren’t as good as the competition. On the one hand I do think Apple uses privacy as crutch. On the other hand I think the issues with Siri and other Apple services go beyond Apple’s privacy stance. For example this afternoon I was getting ready to go for a walk. It was about 38F and sunny. I asked Siri if it was windy out. Siri replied and said no and then said the winds were 15 mph. OK I’ve had other times where Siri would say yes, it does seem windy out and then tell me they were like 9 mph. Another example, I live in a cold weather state. It’s the middle of January and and is 35F and when I ask Siri what the temp is Siri comes back with Brrr it’s x degrees right now. OK 35F in January is cold for Cupertino but it’s not cold for the state I live in. These are just tiny examples but none of them are privacy related.
    This video clearly shows Steve Jobs' stance on privacy.  Contrast his views with that of Tim Cook.  If you listen carefully Jobs was never against collecting data.  He understood there are users that will give up more privacy in exchange for better services but they key is transparency: letting the user know exactly what you're collecting and what you're going to do with that data.  I hope the current Apple leadership is taking this into consideration because from the sounds of it, they come across as being data-phobic.


    Yep, transparency is the key. As long as people know what you’re collecting and what you’re doing with it and it’s opt-in.
    radarthekat
  • Reply 76 of 129
    brakkenbrakken Posts: 677member
    K-12 isn’t going to be a profitable business. Apple doesn’t do unprofitable business.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 77 of 129
    This editorial reeks of so much defensive desperation that I have a difficult time buying into any of the conclusions the author is attempting to put forth.


    Honestly, before you click on the link of an article written by DED you can just imagine how laden with hyperbole and manufactured vitriol it will be.

    And he never fails to deliver!

    I just picture an unobjective loyalist hunched over a keyboard late at night slamming on his keyboard in rage and frustration keeping up the fight against a world where Apple makes mistakes, or where other companies have the capability to make/offer better products/services.

    Actually, you know what? He probably has a detective's crazy wall at home entitled 'The World vs Apple' where he has a tough time deciding which villain should have the most strings leading back to it: Google, Amazon or Microsoft.

    I'm still waiting for an update to his pure conjecture BS article about the purchase of Beats leading to HomePod tech, given recent reports which show HomePod was being developed two years before the Beats purchase. I'm not holding my breath.


    edited March 2018 canukstormaressaressavon b7
  • Reply 78 of 129
    thttht Posts: 3,164member
    Latko said:
    The school market is a lost chance for Apple - as long as it doesn’t deliver on the need for deployment tools (device management, app/version management, content mgt., rights/access mgt.) and keeps denying the need for multiple iOS accounts. Cook & co don’t even understand the concept of double instance multi-tasking (2 Word/Excel docs at the same time), making their post-PC claims near ridiculous. So an iPad with a pencil (if it comes at a Chromebook ‘s pricepoint to start with...) basically remains an overpriced sketchbook - that will never see structural implementation by the lack of a supporting infrastructure (what did Apple’s coopration with IBM bring in ?) A cheap repackaging effort that only underlines the lack of a broader understanding of the sectors’ device/content mgt. needs. Better stay out of this market - edu won’t match Cook’s premium financial prerequisites anyway and it would make Apple’s “thinking in the best interest of the customer” just a fluffy claim - as they only want to sell boxes
    The educational market is, and has always been, extremely price sensitive. Price sensitive markets aren't necessarily markets in which Apple should be attempting to compete. Apple makes aspirational devices and services. People who are used to using inferior alternatives should be desperate to buy and replace the old products with Apple products.
    I don't think the education market has always been price sensitive: there would never be a mac at school if this was the case. The comparison of Chromebooks to other devices misses two big points: Chromebooks are a network client for Google's education platform, which is superior to competitor offerings. Windows and Apple devices still sell apps on things, Chromebooks are access to GSuite for Education/Google Classroom. The other point is that Chromebooks don't require much expertise to look after. They are secure, they deploy and upgrade with no effort, they are interchangeable. To a school, it's the first computing platform that is as easy to use as a textbook. You just hand them out. But it's the first point. I live in Australia, have a child at elementary school and my son is at secondary school. The elementary school is on Windows, the secondary school is Apple: Macbooks Pros at school, personal iPads. But in 2017, both schools introduced Google Classroom and GSuite.  This is the beginning of the end for Windows in the elementary school. The secondary school is a performing arts school, and I think the Macs will survive there due to some special apps. But the requirement for iPads ... I'm not so sure that will survive.  Meanwhile my nephew and niece are at regional schools that have converted to Chromebooks, and two of my friends kids too. These are my anecdotes, but the latest ChromeOS market share figures show a massive increase in ChromeOS market share in Australian education, despite the five-year warning the incumbents had. This massive growth is from a low base, but it's exactly what happened in the US.

    As for tablets, I don't use my Android tablet anymore. I have a AUD $600 Asus Flip which is fast, runs Android and Chrome apps. This is why Android tablets are dead. Chromebooks are a much better value proposition. At my son's school, every child has a keyboard case for their iPad. It's not mandated, but they all come to the same conclusion about the advantage of a keyboard. This indicates a big problem for iPads in the secondary school classroom, in my opinion. When you see this, the attraction of Chromebooks becomes perhaps clearer.
    Thanks.... Well said!
    I glean from this two major points:
    1)  Chromebooks are cheap, easily deployed and maintained -- which makes the administration's job easier.
    2) They provide easy access to high quality Google Cloud apps such as Google Classroom which makes the teacher's job easier.

    Apple needs to approach this from the standpoint of the school rather than the student if they plan to challenge Google in this arena.  And, I think they need to:   Google is using this as a loss-leader to indoctrinate kids into THEIR eco system.
    One of DED’s points is that there is no such thing as decades long brand loyalty in a mass market wide sense, and this is the tech sector to boot. As has been seen already in the article and by others here, kids using Google’s hardware and services today may not be be using Google’s hardware and services 10 years from now.

    This is the tech sector, 10 years from now Google could be an also-ran and it’s some other company who is making all the sales. Maybe 10 years from now, the market will go towards client-side computing while server side (the cloud) is left to rust, ie, nothing but a commodity.

    For Apple, they are not going to win the race to the bottom, and the EDU market is basically the bottom. Apple isn’t even going to play that game. They will likely offer a solution that will deem as better for teachers and students. It will cost more to have. Apple is counting on it being good enough to carve out a niche on the high end, their usual market strategy.
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 79 of 129
    brakkenbrakken Posts: 677member
    I find it interestig how most comments take the position of either/or, polarising positions on this concept of privacy and the use of personal information.

    Apple does not sell personal profiles to third parties, and makes the most of available technology to ensure we cannot be tracked. The fact that a number of 'Americans' do not trust Apple really is the epitome of flawed statistics. Been to a Cnet or Verge or Bloomberg, or Wrong Street or etc article on user privacy recently? False equvialencies and hyperbole are good indicators of fake news.

    The salient point is there is no reason for Apple to mislead customers about its stance on privacy - and this is a vastly different issue from creating a database for users to enhance search results, improve inquiry responses and ensure accurate content. The two oughtn't be conflated. There is simply no profit in misleading its customers in this way, and would be a key thrreat to its reputation. I believe this is why many bloggerists do their best to portray exactly this story line: Apple's competitor's only chance is to destroy Apple's reputation and itegrity, if a consumerist company can approach such a thing.

    Right from Job's return in '97, he positioned Apple as not an 'us or them' proposition, but an 'us with them'. Apple's success has certainly embittered Gates and Schmidt, but that hasn't resulted in them able to have their companies produce non-fail products. Apple is not in the business of monitoring and taking responsibility for other company's business models, nor even its customers' behaviour, and certainly not other countries' internal politics.

    Apple only takes responsibility for itself, and the plague of invective paid for by MS and Alphagoo to tarnish Apple's reputation is neither here nor there when evaluating Apple based on its own business model: consumerism, profit, and technological progress as the vehicle for these - or is it vice-versa? ;)

    Sadly, many people are incapable of behaving like adults, resulting in their not investigating more deeply the technology they use everyday, or the various business models that deliver the services they employ. Throwing one's hands up and pledging incredulity that Facebook sold or allowed user data to be accessed by a third party is really not the issue - from the very beginning, fb sold its service as based on just this business model. The issue is how each society will choose to either support data mining to support commercial interests.

    'Convenience' is the battle-cry for Alphagoo, MS and fb, and many sites which seem to support Apple, including AppleInsider, promote the use of cross-website sign-in functionality through fb or gmail. Most people want convenience, and those companies do their best to provide whaat their customers want. 

    Shouldn't 'the government' protect citizens against manipulation by large companies? How could it, when the government is subject to lobbying by those very companies who control not only the data being collected, and the information about those companies, but also provide the government with that collected information? This issue of privacy strikes at much deeper layers of not just our personal choices, but the way in which our society is structured, and its very foundation.
    magman1979radarthekatGG1watto_cobra
  • Reply 80 of 129
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    brakken said:
    I find it interestig how most comments take the position of either/or, polarising positions on this concept of privacy and the use of personal information.

    Apple does not sell personal profiles to third parties, and makes the most of available technology to ensure we cannot be tracked. The fact that a number of 'Americans' do not trust Apple really is the epitome of flawed statistics. Been to a Cnet or Verge or Bloomberg, or Wrong Street or etc article on user privacy recently? False equvialencies and hyperbole are good indicators of fake news.

    The salient point is there is no reason for Apple to mislead customers about its stance on privacy - and this is a vastly different issue from creating a database for users to enhance search results, improve inquiry responses and ensure accurate content. The two oughtn't be conflated. There is simply no profit in misleading its customers in this way, and would be a key thrreat to its reputation. I believe this is why many bloggerists do their best to portray exactly this story line: Apple's competitor's only chance is to destroy Apple's reputation and itegrity, if a consumerist company can approach such a thing.

    Right from Job's return in '97, he positioned Apple as not an 'us or them' proposition, but an 'us with them'. Apple's success has certainly embittered Gates and Schmidt, but that hasn't resulted in them able to have their companies produce non-fail products. Apple is not in the business of monitoring and taking responsibility for other company's business models, nor even its customers' behaviour, and certainly not other countries' internal politics.

    Apple only takes responsibility for itself, and the plague of invective paid for by MS and Alphagoo to tarnish Apple's reputation is neither here nor there when evaluating Apple based on its own business model: consumerism, profit, and technological progress as the vehicle for these - or is it vice-versa? ;)

    Sadly, many people are incapable of behaving like adults, resulting in their not investigating more deeply the technology they use everyday, or the various business models that deliver the services they employ. Throwing one's hands up and pledging incredulity that Facebook sold or allowed user data to be accessed by a third party is really not the issue - from the very beginning, fb sold its service as based on just this business model. The issue is how each society will choose to either support data mining to support commercial interests.

    'Convenience' is the battle-cry for Alphagoo, MS and fb, and many sites which seem to support Apple, including AppleInsider, promote the use of cross-website sign-in functionality through fb or gmail. Most people want convenience, and those companies do their best to provide whaat their customers want. 

    Shouldn't 'the government' protect citizens against manipulation by large companies? How could it, when the government is subject to lobbying by those very companies who control not only the data being collected, and the information about those companies, but also provide the government with that collected information? This issue of privacy strikes at much deeper layers of not just our personal choices, but the way in which our society is structured, and its very foundation.
    The problem with the trust thing is what on earth does "privacy" actually means, what were the exact questions asked, what context and who got sampled.
    All of that has an impact on the answer.   For example, worldwide, 89% of users are not using Apple, mostly for economic reasons (they can't afford it) and thus have no direct knowledge of how Apple differs from others on the point of privacy. They're family with Google/Android though and we know familiarity breads trust of a sort (even though it may be completely unearned).

    For those crowd who use Google/Android, privacy has a value defined by Apple has already been given away, and they either have no knowledge of what else Apple offers or willingly have considered the tradeoff not worth it. So, There is also this little think in psychology of confirmation bias; people must justify their own choices to themselves, before they even justify them to others. 

    You get a lot of false equivalence type justifications in this case, either pulling down Apple to Androids privacy level, or lifting up Android to IOS's level (without any basis in actual facts mind you). For the everything is crap but Android is less crappy, Android would come ahead, in the case of the flawed but good crowd, again Android would magically still be "ahead". It can only win either way.

    I've not even added the constant clickbait narrative of the media who seem to revel in rolling Apple in mud to actually feed this confirmation bubble that sells clicks and gets eyeballs.  The important thing for the media is not that it's true, but that's seems true to the people they're targeting. Of course, this kind of feeding has an impact on those who don't get first hand info on Apple products (those who actually are not looking for the features that Apple push).

    Putting this all together it's easy to see why you'd get a distrust of Apple.for  a worldwide sample of smart phone users.

    Even in the US were Apple has a much bigger market share, the kind of constant clickbait drone has an impact on public perception too.
    magman1979GG1watto_cobra
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