The 2019 Mac Pro will be what Apple wants it to be, and it won't, and shouldn't, make ever...

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  • Reply 61 of 308
    dougddougd Posts: 201member
    My black Mac Pro has been running 24/7 for something like four years without a hitch.  It's really all I need and won't buy the new version.  One thing odd though is they only offer a 1 TB SSD unlike the MacBook Pro which can be ordered with 1, 2, or 4 TB SSD. Yes you can get that from OWC but it's weird Apple doesn't offer it.
  • Reply 62 of 308
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,243member
    Well, that's the point. They are making the products that consumers want. 
    Are they?

    I love my 2016 MacBook Pro. It was fun being the first kid on the block to have one. A year-and-a-half later I'm still the ONLY kid on the block to have one. I honestly don't know even one other person (in real life, not counting people I "know" on the internet) who bought one. Not one. Obviously that doesn't mean NO ONE is buying them, and I'm well aware that my anecdotal observations are only valid in the context of their very limited scope. It's just culture shock for me to feel so technologically isolated.

    Same with the trashcan. I like it. In three years of use I can't recall ever coming up against it being an obstacle to anything we wanted to do. Again though, it felt like no one else ever bought one. You couldn't throw a rock in my peer group without hitting a cheese grater, but not a shiny cylinder to be found anywhere.

    I'm not naive or arrogant enough to believe my social/professional circle is representative of the rest of the world, but the shift in culture -- from love to hostility towards Apple -- has been significant enough to make me wonder if it may be indicative of a larger trend.
    docno42
  • Reply 63 of 308
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 423member
    dougd said:
    My black Mac Pro has been running 24/7 for something like four years without a hitch.  It's really all I need and won't buy the new version.  One thing odd though is they only offer a 1 TB SSD unlike the MacBook Pro which can be ordered with 1, 2, or 4 TB SSD. Yes you can get that from OWC but it's weird Apple doesn't offer it.
    I love my cylinder, and I agree about the storage. A high capacity ssd is fairly affordable now, but the propriety ssd of the cylinder Mac is still super expensive. 
  • Reply 64 of 308
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,374member
    Well, that's the point. They are making the products that consumers want. 
    Are they?

    I love my 2016 MacBook Pro. It was fun being the first kid on the block to have one. A year-and-a-half later I'm still the ONLY kid on the block to have one. I honestly don't know even one other person (in real life, not counting people I "know" on the internet) who bought one. Not one. Obviously that doesn't mean NO ONE is buying them, and I'm well aware that my anecdotal observations are only valid in the context of their very limited scope. It's just culture shock for me to feel so technologically isolated.

    Same with the trashcan. I like it. In three years of use I can't recall ever coming up against it being an obstacle to anything we wanted to do. Again though, it felt like no one else ever bought one. You couldn't throw a rock in my peer group without hitting a cheese grater, but not a shiny cylinder to be found anywhere.

    I'm not naive or arrogant enough to believe my social/professional circle is representative of the rest of the world, but the shift in culture -- from love to hostility towards Apple -- has been significant enough to make me wonder if it may be indicative of a larger trend.
    1) I also don't see as many MBPs with the Touch Bar. I do see a fair amount of 12" MacBooks, but most Mac notebooks seem to be older models. Mostly I see iPads, which I think is the real reason. I now have people in my family who still have a decade plus old Mac but are mostly iPad users who update ever 2–4 years. This past month two of them have asked me if they should get a new Mac and I told them that they really don't need to if they're using it as little as they say they are. Both even have a HW issues: one is a 21" iMac with some display defect causing lines and the other is a white 13" MacBook with a bad battery. I told them to hold off for now and I'll probably send them something used to use as a backup so I can remote into it as needed within the next year. I wish that you could do that with iOS devices.

    2) While I almost always use 2017 MBP, when I do jump onto my 2015 model I really miss the keyboard. The display clearly isn't as good despite still being a Retina IPS display, but the keyboard still feels so much better. If I haven't gotten accustomed to the new keyboard to prefer it—as often is needed with change—I doubt I ever will.
  • Reply 65 of 308
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,378member
    kruegdude said:
    k2kw said:
    Apple should make this an insanely powerful even if it means 18 core CPU and 128 GB RAM starting at $ 10,000 for the base model.

    unfortunately this won't arrive till 2020.


    Think bigger :-)
    I do think it should have at least a 512 GB RAM option.   How high do you think they should top out?
  • Reply 66 of 308
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,374member
    dougd said:
    My black Mac Pro has been running 24/7 for something like four years without a hitch.  It's really all I need and won't buy the new version.  One thing odd though is they only offer a 1 TB SSD unlike the MacBook Pro which can be ordered with 1, 2, or 4 TB SSD. Yes you can get that from OWC but it's weird Apple doesn't offer it.
    Huh. I never noticed that. That seems odd since I can't see how they need any extensive testing for those higher capacity SSDs in the Mac Pro. Seems like they're leaving money on the table. Is the MBP SSD interconnect the same as that 2013 Mac Pro?
  • Reply 67 of 308
    geirnoklebyegeirnoklebye Posts: 37unconfirmed, member
    One of the things early Apple and Steve Jobs learned was that if you give people a system they can grow on, with and in, then people will find new ways of using it. – Ways that both will be beneficial to Apple and their customers. 

    The current Apple seem to have lost much of this early gained knowledge. It has in many ways become a non-learning organization.
    Far too many companies have faltered under the philosophy of design by committee. 
  • Reply 68 of 308
    Soli said:
    "Apple made a mistake with the "Pro" naming scheme, which feeds into the toxic elitism surrounding this."

    What? That's a completely bizarre statement considering the Mac Pro and MacBook Pro have been identified as such for a long time.
    This thread, as well as countless others, clearly show the entitlenment some people have over what they believe Apple owes them for being “longtime power users.”

    That said, I don’t think anything would change with these people if Apple changed the nomenclature. 
    Well the bond between the producer and the consumer has to work two ways for it to work. Value is something Steve had an eye for. He built an ecosystem which in return made people go back to apple for some other stuff attaching to it. I had almost everything Apple produced from computers to phones to tablets. Today. Apple isn´t giving me the value apple once gave me. Its Apples choice to do whatever they dare and want. Just dont coma nockin on my door after that door hits you ass...  :D . That said and the sentiments in the air. The only Apple device now is Ipads and My old trusty mac mini (yes the UPGRADABLE one), So about half of that is now non-Apple. So this looks like the end for mac os for my part. I've prepared myself for this for a long time and seen it comming. Wheres that ecosystem now? (Apple) You just made yourself expendable. I didnt really hope for this, but across the years I saw your lacking engagement in our journey together. So I kept on looking for other alternatives (younger, slimmer, more toned) and I made some great friends I didn't even know existed. I'm now ready for it. 


    edited April 6
  • Reply 69 of 308
    dougddougd Posts: 201member
    Soli said:
    dougd said:
    My black Mac Pro has been running 24/7 for something like four years without a hitch.  It's really all I need and won't buy the new version.  One thing odd though is they only offer a 1 TB SSD unlike the MacBook Pro which can be ordered with 1, 2, or 4 TB SSD. Yes you can get that from OWC but it's weird Apple doesn't offer it.
    Huh. I never noticed that. That seems odd since I can't see how they need any extensive testing for those higher capacity SSDs in the Mac Pro. Seems like they're leaving money on the table. Is the MBP SSD interconnect the same as that 2013 Mac Pro?

    Unlikely the same interface. MacBook Pro SSDs are soldered in

  • Reply 70 of 308
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,378member
    Well, that's the point. They are making the products that consumers want. 
    Are they?

    I love my 2016 MacBook Pro. It was fun being the first kid on the block to have one. A year-and-a-half later I'm still the ONLY kid on the block to have one. I honestly don't know even one other person (in real life, not counting people I "know" on the internet) who bought one. Not one. Obviously that doesn't mean NO ONE is buying them, and I'm well aware that my anecdotal observations are only valid in the context of their very limited scope. It's just culture shock for me to feel so technologically isolated.
    I think that is the result of the TouchBar.   I really wanted a Laptop with touchId, but not that over priced gimmick.   I consider it a failure.   If it had been a success we would have had a slew of Windows copycats.

    Apple went Stealth Fighter when they should have gone Stealth Bomber and kept the SD slot and MagSafe.


  • Reply 71 of 308
    djames4242djames4242 Posts: 492member
    netrox said:
    I actually upgraded RAM after I bought the standard iMac to save money. I've done the same with all my PC's as well. 

    While it's true most of those machines don't get upgraded, it does not mean nobody does that. The upgrades are more common among those who own pros at home than those who use them at work.

    Do you really think that companies will let users upgrade their company machines? No. That's not how it works. Companies OWN those machines, not users. Users have little say. 
    At no point did I say that nobody does it. In fact, the middle of the article spells out who does, and how rare it is. It's just important to note, that while probably 90% of AI readers do it, we are far and away the minority in that regard.

    Regarding work, the fact that the user won't upgrade it isn't the point. The corporate entity doesn't, and won't, as it's neither cost nor labor effective to do so.
    ...but does this mean they shouldn't make components upgradable for those who want to upgrade?

    How much more difficult would it be for memory and drives to be user-upgradable, and would there be any actual tradeoffs to do so? I get that Apple is obsessed with making thin laptops and that requires soldered on components. There's a tradeoff there (and as someone who has upgraded the memory and hard drives multiple times in my 2011 MBP, *and* have removed the optical drive in favor of a second SSD, I personally disagree with this tradeoff, but at least there is one). With a desktop machine, those compromises no longer exist. Soldering memory and drives (and even graphics cards and CPUs) on a desktop machine serves little purpose. There's no performance gain, and who cares how much larger a desktop machine is? My Mac Mini is tiny, but I've also upgrade its memory and its hard drive twice, and added a second SSD. There was little reason for Apple to solder components to the logic board of the Mini, other than to prevent future upgrades. I'm about to finally replace my Mini with a 2017 iMac and am very thankful the memory can easily be upgraded.

    Point is - very few people may upgrade their desktop Macs, but that doesn't mean there's any logical reason Apple should design a machine that can't be upgraded.
    docno42
  • Reply 72 of 308
    It's funny how Apple could sell a pretty box with a motherboard, no ssd, no ram... just the board in a box that can boot OSX... and pros would *LOVE* it. BYO keyboard, mouse, monitor, memory, storage. They could call it "Minimalism" and have Ive narrate about the beauty of simplicity...

    They could have an option where the motherboard has laser-engraved Jobs-Wozniak signatures on it and make it cliche-throwback. They could have a base option that does include ram and a drive... whatever. This isn't difficult but Apple keeps playing this like they're a nine-year-old trying to win a game of h-o-r-s-e, taking only impossible shots so that if one goes in they have bragging rights.
  • Reply 73 of 308
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,374member
    dougd said:
    Soli said:
    dougd said:
    My black Mac Pro has been running 24/7 for something like four years without a hitch.  It's really all I need and won't buy the new version.  One thing odd though is they only offer a 1 TB SSD unlike the MacBook Pro which can be ordered with 1, 2, or 4 TB SSD. Yes you can get that from OWC but it's weird Apple doesn't offer it.
    Huh. I never noticed that. That seems odd since I can't see how they need any extensive testing for those higher capacity SSDs in the Mac Pro. Seems like they're leaving money on the table. Is the MBP SSD interconnect the same as that 2013 Mac Pro?
    Unlikely the same interface. MacBook Pro SSDs are soldered in
    LOL I did forget about that. That would certainly be different.
    cornchip
  • Reply 74 of 308
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,110member
    "Apple made a mistake with the "Pro" naming scheme, which feeds into the toxic elitism surrounding this."

    What? That's a completely bizarre statement considering the Mac Pro and MacBook Pro have been identified as such for a long time.
    This isn't a new phenomenon.
    Was the "toxic elitism" comment the opinion of the author? Because it's absurdly hyperbolical. 
    edited April 6 cornchip
  • Reply 75 of 308
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,374member
    "Apple made a mistake with the "Pro" naming scheme, which feeds into the toxic elitism surrounding this."

    What? That's a completely bizarre statement considering the Mac Pro and MacBook Pro have been identified as such for a long time.
    This isn't a new phenomenon.
    Was the "toxic elitism" comment the opinion of the author? Because it's absurdly hyperbolical. 
    Of course it was the opinion of the author, just as it's your opinion that it's "absurdly hyperbolical" and my opinion that it's on point.
    StrangeDaysMike Wuerthelecornchipchasm
  • Reply 76 of 308
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,243member
    k2kw said:
    Well, that's the point. They are making the products that consumers want. 
    Are they?

    I love my 2016 MacBook Pro. It was fun being the first kid on the block to have one. A year-and-a-half later I'm still the ONLY kid on the block to have one. I honestly don't know even one other person (in real life, not counting people I "know" on the internet) who bought one. Not one. Obviously that doesn't mean NO ONE is buying them, and I'm well aware that my anecdotal observations are only valid in the context of their very limited scope. It's just culture shock for me to feel so technologically isolated.
    I think that is the result of the TouchBar.   I really wanted a Laptop with touchId, but not that over priced gimmick.   I consider it a failure.   If it had been a success we would have had a slew of Windows copycats.

    Apple went Stealth Fighter when they should have gone Stealth Bomber and kept the SD slot and MagSafe.


    I disagree about MagSafe. Power over USB is MUCH better for me. I can use any power source capable of spitting the juice out a USB connector, including spare batteries. I can plug it in on the right side, which is really handy when having it on the left means it's in the way. When I have a lot of peripherals going on I can disconnect the power cord and that spot becomes another I/O port.

    As for whoopthie protraction, the connector pops out just fine. Trust me, I know. So do the dogs.
    Solidjames4242
  • Reply 77 of 308
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 5,837member
    One of the things early Apple and Steve Jobs learned was that if you give people a system they can grow on, with and in, then people will find new ways of using it. – Ways that both will be beneficial to Apple and their customers. 

    The current Apple seem to have lost much of this early gained knowledge. It has in many ways become a non-learning organization.
    Far too many companies have faltered under the philosophy of design by committee. 
    Actually, Jobs hated expandabilty and slots and sought out to block them. Read it from the guys in the room. Here’s one of the Macintosh creators Andy Hertzfeld:

    Apple's other co-founder, Steve Jobs, didn't agree with Jef about many things, but they both felt the same way about hardware expandability: it was a bug instead of a feature. Steve was reportedly against having slots in the Apple II back in the days of yore, and felt even stronger about slots for the Mac. He decreed that the Macintosh would remain perpetually bereft of slots, enclosed in a tightly sealed case,”

    https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Diagnostic_Port.txt

    So much for your theory. 

    And are are you actually claiming Apple is a design by committee company!? Good one. 
    SolimacplusplusRayz2016chasmfastasleep
  • Reply 78 of 308
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,243member
    I took a look at my own upgrade history and found that all but one have been installing third-party RAM and storage at the time of purchase. I only bothered because Apple demands buttrape prices for BTO options. If Apple's prices for RAM and storage upgrades at the time of purchase were more reasonable I wouldn't have bothered doing it myself. That means my objection isn't really that I can't upgrade my Mac myself anymore, it's that Apple's prices for generic commodity items are too high.

    I don't care whether or not I'm able to upgrade a new Mac myself, all I care about is getting reasonable value for my money. When Apple's prices are anywhere from half-again to double the going rate, it makes me grumpy.
  • Reply 79 of 308
    Stop that iMac Pro BS. No we cannot imagine single timy glare monitor with low precision picture that gets yellow after two years of work. We need processing unit with powerful video card and we wi;l supply proper quality displays and multiple of them depending on configuration needed.
  • Reply 80 of 308
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,378member
    entropys said:
    k2kw said:
    Apple should make this an insanely powerful even if it means 18 core CPU and 128 GB RAM starting at $ 10,000 for the base model.

    unfortunately this won't arrive till 2020.


    I will never be in the market for something so powerful and expensive. Yet I passionately believe that there should be a powerful, flexible and versatile Mac Pro as a hero project. The most powerful computer you can buy off the shelf.  The marketing benefits alone would be fantastic.

    Of course, what would be truly awesome would be three options: the iMac Pro; a cheese grater; and a hero project paradigm shifter.
    I always thought of the Trash Can as the MacMiniPro.

    It would be great if this new group could build and support all three products.   Every two years one of the models gets a redesign followed by refreshed components 3 years later.

    MacMiniPro (TrashCan) Refresh 2018 new Design 2021
    IMacPro. 2017 refreshed in 2020
    MacPro 2019 refreshed in 2022

    This way every year there is something new coming out from this group.   With a Spec Refresh every 3 years each model doesn't get so old to be a bad value.

    Businesses would love this as they like predictability.
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