The 2019 Mac Pro will be what Apple wants it to be, and it won't, and shouldn't, make ever...

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  • Reply 81 of 289
    SoliSoli Posts: 6,734member
    k2kw said:
    Well, that's the point. They are making the products that consumers want. 
    Are they?

    I love my 2016 MacBook Pro. It was fun being the first kid on the block to have one. A year-and-a-half later I'm still the ONLY kid on the block to have one. I honestly don't know even one other person (in real life, not counting people I "know" on the internet) who bought one. Not one. Obviously that doesn't mean NO ONE is buying them, and I'm well aware that my anecdotal observations are only valid in the context of their very limited scope. It's just culture shock for me to feel so technologically isolated.
    I think that is the result of the TouchBar.   I really wanted a Laptop with touchId, but not that over priced gimmick.   I consider it a failure.   If it had been a success we would have had a slew of Windows copycats.

    Apple went Stealth Fighter when they should have gone Stealth Bomber and kept the SD slot and MagSafe.


    I disagree about MagSafe. Power over USB is MUCH better for me. I can use any power source capable of spitting the juice out a USB connector, including spare batteries. I can plug it in on the right side, which is really handy when having it on the left means it's in the way. When I have a lot of peripherals going on I can disconnect the power cord and that spot becomes another I/O port.

    As for whoopthie protraction, the connector pops out just fine. Trust me, I know. So do the dogs.
    MagSafe was/is great. It replaced an inarguably lesser design when Mac notebooks would only get a couple hours of battery life under normal use. Now I can go all day so I don't need to have a cable over area with pedestrian traffic, and I'm not sure it would be that functional with how light the current Mac notebooks are.

    They could make the magnet weaker so it pulls off with the same force, but that also means that moving the laptop means it'll pop over more easily (which was always an annoyance we dealt with for having all its other benefits. Plus, we now have 4 ports that can used for power, used for USB, used for a display, and other things in any arrangement we see fit.

    It's also cheaper to replace a USB-C cord and you don't to buy an Apple PSU (but I don't know of any that are less expensive and of quality). Having the power cord of the MagSafe cable attached to PSU has cost me a fair amount of money, not to mention using a soldering gun and shrink tubing to MacGyver a torn MagSafe cable near the connector end. Most of that probably occurred because the MagSafe connector was always on the left side of the Mac and I know plug in my USB-C power cord on the right side where there is no bend.

    And if tripping over a cable is really a concern there is always the external battery pack you mention (which is great for long flights until adequate power for notebooks in seats becomes common) or getting an adapter that will add a breakaway, magnetic connector, which you can put at the Mac end, PSU end, in the middle between two USB-C cables, or in any other configuration from several vendors as one sees fit.

    MagSafe was great, but it's era is over. Long live USB-C!
    racerhomie3StrangeDayslorin schultz
  • Reply 82 of 289
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 2,346administrator
    "Apple made a mistake with the "Pro" naming scheme, which feeds into the toxic elitism surrounding this."

    What? That's a completely bizarre statement considering the Mac Pro and MacBook Pro have been identified as such for a long time.
    This isn't a new phenomenon.
    Was the "toxic elitism" comment the opinion of the author? Because it's absurdly hyperbolical. 
    "Absurdly hyperbolic" are people screaming that they'll leave the Mac, and their friends will leave too and Apple will die because there aren't USB-A ports, or a SD card reader. Or, maybe, the whole "I've had Apple computers for XX years, and if Steve Jobs was alive..." nonsense. Step back a year, and pick your topic of whining, and the script is the same, every year, until it magically isn't.

    Look no further than the ARM in the Mac, the Mac Pro in 2019, and this thread itself to see the entitled crybaby crap that can get spewed about the topic.

    OF COURSE it is the opinion of the author. That's why it's labeled an editorial.
    edited April 6 racerhomie3StrangeDayslkruppRayz2016macxpressbestkeptsecretfastasleep
  • Reply 83 of 289
    SoliSoli Posts: 6,734member
    Stop that iMac Pro BS. No we cannot imagine single timy glare monitor with low precision picture that gets yellow after two years of work. We need processing unit with powerful video card and we wi;l supply proper quality displays and multiple of them depending on configuration needed.
    On one end of anti-AIO spectrum is your comment that the display doesn't last and on the other is another poster who says that the display will last for decades when everything else isn't functional. Apple can't win.
  • Reply 84 of 289
    SoliSoli Posts: 6,734member

    One of the things early Apple and Steve Jobs learned was that if you give people a system they can grow on, with and in, then people will find new ways of using it. – Ways that both will be beneficial to Apple and their customers. 

    The current Apple seem to have lost much of this early gained knowledge. It has in many ways become a non-learning organization.
    Far too many companies have faltered under the philosophy of design by committee. 
    Actually, Jobs hated expandabilty and slots and sought out to block them. Read it from the guys in the room. Here’s one of the Macintosh creators Andy Hertzfeld:

    Apple's other co-founder, Steve Jobs, didn't agree with Jef about many things, but they both felt the same way about hardware expandability: it was a bug instead of a feature. Steve was reportedly against having slots in the Apple II back in the days of yore, and felt even stronger about slots for the Mac. He decreed that the Macintosh would remain perpetually bereft of slots, enclosed in a tightly sealed case,”

    https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Diagnostic_Port.txt

    So much for your theory. 

    And are are you actually claiming Apple is a design by committee company!? Good one. 
    While not accurate, as you prove, he did make one of the best "If Steve Jobs were alive…" arguments I've seen without actually using those words.
  • Reply 85 of 289
    There is alot of truth in this article. I am the niche pro, inside the niche, inside the niche...I am self employed, using my Mac Pro from home to trade stocks. Been doing it for going on 15 years now, I have always had Mac "pro" machines starting with the PowerPC towers way back, up through my current 2012 cheese grater. On average a machine will last me 7-8 years...with upgrades to RAM, video cards, and yes processors (all done by me). I passed on the 2013 simply because it wasn't really an upgrade from my current upgraded cheese grater (though I went back and forth several times before choosing to pass).

    Because of my particular niche, I don't really care about 18 cores or 128G of RAM. I run 6 monitors so I care about graphic expansion (though not 4 or 5K necessarily). It is getting harder and harder to stick with the Mac...not because of anything Apple has or hasn't done, but because almost all brokerages are Windows only platforms these days. I will stick with Apple as long as I can, and with that in mind, I hope the 2019 Mac Pro is something special, because I will be looking to buy around then.

    Love the site, and forums. Keep it up!
    docno42chasm
  • Reply 86 of 289
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,011member
    macxpress said:
    eightzero said:
    Observation: Apple or AI says the words "Mac Pro" and the AI forums assplode. 

    You pro dudes/ dudettes are a passionate lot. And bless you all, 'cause it makes great reading. 
    Haha....well yes it brings out the armchair engineers, executives, and industrial designers. I didn't know there were so many experts here yet I don't see them applying for a position at Apple. 
    Hey now, I actually am an industrial designer!
    Solimacpluspluslkrupp
  • Reply 87 of 289
    The word "Pro" is getting both stale and divisive. Can we find a new product name for this line? How about the "Mac Mod" where Mod officially means "modular"? Apple keeps saying "modular" so why not? And Mod also rhymes with Pod. Mod also means "stylish," "fashionable," "Modern," "chic," and "up-to-date." Mod is also a specific fashion style from the 1960s meaning a black trench coat and sunglasses. For a while the Beatles were dressed in mod. I would say that Neo in the Matrix was very mod. I would suggest Apple hire Keanu Reeves and dress him in mod style to sell the first Mac Mod. The Mac Mod would likely come in black, with a hint of green. "Sunglasses not included."

    If Apple uses this name idea I think they owe me about $50k.
    I would go with Pete, Linc and Julie.
    chasm
  • Reply 88 of 289
    rcfarcfa Posts: 682member
    In the end it boils down to one thing: licensing of Apple’s OS to third parties.

    Nobody in their right mind blames Apple for not building hardware for what, given its size, are niche  markets.
    The issue is, what’s a niche market for Apple is still a sizable for others, and users don’t feel like they should be forced into using inferior software, just because the hardware they need doesn’t fit into Apple’s 80-20 model of doing business.

    people and companies want to be able to standardize on one platform, and the availability of Apple’s tied-at-the-hip hardware and software offerings just don’t cover sufficient ground.
    The result is that people stick or are driven to other platforms who would love to use macOS, but can’t find suitable hardware.
    docno42
  • Reply 89 of 289
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 4,377member
    Stop that iMac Pro BS. No we cannot imagine single timy glare monitor with low precision picture that gets yellow after two years of work. We need processing unit with powerful video card and we wi;l supply proper quality displays and multiple of them depending on configuration needed.
    It's not BS, you're just making a typical mistake -- believing everyone is you. Most of Apple's pros are software developers, says Craig F. I'm one of them. The displays on iMacs are more than quality enough for my work. I switched to AIOs with a 2011 iMac and haven't looked back. It use an VESA arm mount on my sit-stand desk and the setup has a super clean look & feel, uncluttered of wires. I love it.
    chasm
  • Reply 90 of 289
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 1,920member
    I took a look at my own upgrade history and found that all but one have been installing third-party RAM and storage at the time of purchase. I only bothered because Apple demands buttrape prices for BTO options. If Apple's prices for RAM and storage upgrades at the time of purchase were more reasonable I wouldn't have bothered doing it myself. That means my objection isn't really that I can't upgrade my Mac myself anymore, it's that Apple's prices for generic commodity items are too high.

    I don't care whether or not I'm able to upgrade a new Mac myself, all I care about is getting reasonable value for my money. When Apple's prices are anywhere from half-again to double the going rate, it makes me grumpy.
    This is the issue. Well said.


  • Reply 91 of 289
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 2,610member
    Shouldn’t the Mac Pro be the most boring product in Apple’s lineup?  Why do they need to spend all this time rethinking the pro desktop?
    mattinozcornchip
  • Reply 92 of 289
    SoliSoli Posts: 6,734member
    Shouldn’t the Mac Pro be the most boring product in Apple’s lineup?  Why do they need to spend all this time rethinking the pro desktop?
    You'd think, but do you remember when Apple kept the iconic "cheese grater" design through many years of upgrades, which included a transition from PPC to Intel? I recall endless comments about how the design was stale. One could argue that it's rational for Apple to appeal to the irrationality of the consumer.
    docno42cornchip
  • Reply 93 of 289
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,565member
    When you want a Mac that is as upgradeable as any old PC, that doesn't make you a 'pro', that makes you a 'hobbyist'.

    SoliStrangeDaysRayz2016fastasleep
  • Reply 94 of 289
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,260member
    Stop that iMac Pro BS. No we cannot imagine single timy glare monitor with low precision picture that gets yellow after two years of work. We need processing unit with powerful video card and we wi;l supply proper quality displays and multiple of them depending on configuration needed.
    I have never heard of a LCD monitor turning yellow after two years of work. Neither a LCD TV. A defective GPU may cause this, but as far as I know Apple has offered free replacement for all defective GPUs.

    I have nothing to say about a low precision picture, however. /s
    edited April 6 StrangeDaysRayz2016
  • Reply 95 of 289
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,260member
    Shouldn’t the Mac Pro be the most boring product in Apple’s lineup?  Why do they need to spend all this time rethinking the pro desktop?
    Because they CAN...

    Anyway, as long as the current desktops do the job, pro or not, there is nothing wrong in rethinking the pro desktop.
    edited April 6
  • Reply 96 of 289
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 993member

    steven n. said:
    I disagree with the article.  

    That is some elitist stuff here. I don't even think you know what the word "Pro" means but you would had you actually read the article.


    "Workflow teams from 'StarWars' were the same narrow group that liked the trashcan." and "Apple didn't listen on the Mac Pro once already " are mutually exclusive. 1 of those can be true but not both. Simple logic 101.

    "The Pros know better and it doesnt matter what the 'wider'"???? "The Pros know better"??? You have already demonstrated you don't know what a "Pro" user is. How can they "know better" when you can't even define the group you are talking about?

    "Also, the premise that many people never upgrade their mac pro is a faulty one for the pro market."
    Again, you have reading issues since the author neither wrote that nor implied that.

    Wow... Just wow...

    That said, you have made it very clear what you are after from YOUR stand point but don't assume every single "Pro" user has the same exact criteria as you or your criteria are even a majority of views for the target audience.

    Not sure if you misread or have a poor grasp of logic. Apple first didnt listen and produced the trashcan mac. THEN, a bunch of apologist 'pixar/star wars' users apologized endlessly how much they like the trashcan and endlessly would yell at other pro users that they knew best...only to have apple embarrassingly admit the design was a failure.
    Not sure if you understood those Pixar/Lucas Film users were Pro users. As I said, you have fundamental logic errors in almost every one of your discussions.

    And Apple did not admit to the design being a failure but they did admit they made miscalculations on thermal expansion and (most importantly) multiple GPUs VS bigger GPUs.

    What you are failing to understand is not every person wants a computer just like you. The custom build market is decreasing every year. From PCs to Macs, people tend not to upgrade every 1.5 years like they did in the day of the 386/486/486DX/Pentium.... If you limit your product line (you might want to read "The Paradox of Choice") you have to hope you target the largest group possible. You won't always hit.
    SolimacplusplusRayz2016
  • Reply 97 of 289
    6toecat6toecat Posts: 42member
    The 2016 MacBook Pro was everything I had waited for, and I edited a 4K TV series using it. Sure I would love a Mac Pro with loads more RAM and expandability, but ti doesn't exist yet, so Pro users on the Mac have to make due until there are more viable options. Fortunately, Final Cut Pro X is optimized really well with the Mac hardware, so even the sub - pro Mac models that are available today work adequately for 4K workflows. It's the 8K workflow that Apple has only recently begun to address, and I can't wait.
    macplusplusSolichasmfastasleep
  • Reply 98 of 289
    Even after all this , I am just happy that High Sierra got a native eGPU solution. I cannot wait to try it out.
  • Reply 99 of 289
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,432member
    Shouldn’t the Mac Pro be the most boring product in Apple’s lineup?  Why do they need to spend all this time rethinking the pro desktop?
    Because that's the Apple way.
  • Reply 100 of 289
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 5,811member
    cornchip said:
    macxpress said:
    eightzero said:
    Observation: Apple or AI says the words "Mac Pro" and the AI forums assplode. 

    You pro dudes/ dudettes are a passionate lot. And bless you all, 'cause it makes great reading. 
    Haha....well yes it brings out the armchair engineers, executives, and industrial designers. I didn't know there were so many experts here yet I don't see them applying for a position at Apple. 
    Hey now, I actually am an industrial designer!
    Yeah, prove it. Or are we just supposed to accept the claim of an anonymous poster on a tech blog like the trolls who start out saying “I’ve used Apple products for years and I love the company...BUT”?
    Rayz2016
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