Dell XPS 13 9370 vs. Apple's 13-inch MacBook Pro, the ultimate comparison

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  • Reply 81 of 116
    wizard69 said:
    sflocal said:
    Windows is the standard at businesses.  That’s not going to change anytime soon.  The admin at a shop I consult with blew a gasket when I wanted to use my Mac on their network.  Now, more folks are doing it, he’s being ordered to allow it, and guess which users have almost zero issues?

    i think he fears that Macs threaten his job security.

    I administer windows machines on a Win2012 server AD setup at another site and let me tell you it’s a pain in the backside.  Windows machines always needs babysitting.
    He like fears threats to the kick backs.  Wild guess anyways but you have to wonder sometimes as IT managers sometimes are seemingly irrational.    I'm running Windows 10 at the moment and I can flatly state that Windows WiFI support, reliability or whatever you want to call it, is terrible.   The Windows crap is very noticeable if you spend a lot of time with different platforms.    Interestingly Linux on the same laptop seems to be much more stable and the WiFi chip set support is very new under Linux.

    It's not that he necessarily fears for his job, he's just resistant to change, especially to something about which he knows next to nothing.  He could learn what he needs to in order to make his job easier, he's just not willing to without being explicitly required to.

    That said, integrating Macs into a previously pure Windows networking environment can be difficult, unless the network was designed for interoperability in mind.  It can be done though, and while it's tedious and time consuming, it's not terribly complex.

  • Reply 82 of 116
    Cinthetyk said:
    I can't say that I'm a fanboy of any specific computing ecosystem, but I certainly can say that this thread doesn't do Apple any favors. A few of you are objective, rational people who think for themselves, so for that I applaud you.

    On the topic of the actual article, I realized that I seem to be in the minority of hating the MBP touchpad. I'm also not a big fan of the XPS keyboard. Odd.

    You're not alone, though I hate touchpads in general.  They completely and entirely suck as an input device, no matter on what machine they happen to be.
  • Reply 83 of 116
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 6,032member
    cgWerks said:
    bluefire1 said:
    Ever use Dell customer support?
    Exactly. I'm sticking with my MacBook Pro
    Oh, I'm no big fan of Dell. It's more an indicator of just how far Apple has fallen.
    If Apple were still on their game, there wouldn't be a point to such articles and we Mac people wouldn't be looking with envy at PCs.
    Speak for yourself. All I see is garbage, certainly not enviable. Today’s Macs are best performing and most enjoyable versions of Macs I’ve ever used. Go get a Dell. 
  • Reply 84 of 116
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 6,032member

    KITA said:
    I'd be curious how something like the MateBook X Pro would fare. It has a 14" 3000x2000 display with the same brightness and color gamut as the 13" MBP. They also managed to stick a low power dGPU in there, the NVIDIA MX150 with 2 GB GDDR5.


    That’s a blatant ripoff design, copying the MBP. Just another knockoff. Even its name is a chinese copy. 
    edited May 7
  • Reply 85 of 116
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 6,032member
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    KITA said:
    Soli said:
    KITA said:
    linkman said:
    KITA said:
    I'd be curious how something like the MateBook X Pro would fare. It has a 14" 3000x2000 display with the same brightness and color gamut as the 13" MBP. They also managed to stick a low power dGPU in there, the NVIDIA MX150 with 2 GB GDDR5.

    [image]
    MateBook X Pro? Just how is that not trademark infringement? Huawei even capitalizes the B in the name. And the laptop is very similar looking to the MacBook Pro. If I were Apple I'd definitely be suing.
    Why would it be a trademark infringement? While certain aspects look similar to a MacBook Pro, it has a 3:2 touch display with essentially no bezel and a camera hidden in a keyboard key. These are very distinct design features.
     
    [image]

    Apple never sued ASUS for any of their ZenBook laptops and some of those look very similar to the MacBook Air.

    [image]
    Having a distinct feature doesn't mean it's not infringing, or are you McDowell and think your burger is "distinct" because you omit the sesame seeds on the bun? The difference between MacBook Pro and MateBook X Pro are very close and they're the exact same type of product for same type of customer so I easily see how this is infringing on Apple's brand.

    [video]
    The distinct features are inherent of a different design. Even the chassis is a different shape than the MBP.
    Again—and more directly, this time—what the fuck does that have to do with the god damn name?
    When Huawei entered the laptop market it didn't take a genius to come up with 'MateBook' for naming in different versions. [...]

    The names are somewhat similar but no one is going to confuse them. Both have their own reasons for having the names they have.
    No, it only took a ripoff artist. MateBook is a copy of MacBook. Pretending otherwise is just embarrassing pandering to the chinese knockoffs. 

    My mother would completely confuse them. 
  • Reply 86 of 116
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 6,032member
    cgWerks said:
    Soli said:
    I've lived through a lot stuff, too, or so I recall, but that doesn't mean it's accurate.
    Yes, way back pre-OSX days, I had to re-load systems from time to time, but I had that process down pretty well and aside from data-transfer time and some 'merging' work, it was pretty consistent and dependable.
    Since switching my household over to OS X with the intel launch, I have never, ever had to reload a system. I wouldn’t even know how I’m so out of practice. My Windows machines have required countless reinstalls and re-images. I don’t run into bugs or issues and our Macs just work perfectly. 

    So by your own data today’s OS X machines are more reliable than Macs of yore. With more users. 
  • Reply 87 of 116
    linkmanlinkman Posts: 851member
    DAalseth said:
    OTOH its a Dell. I dobt like, or trust, Dell systems. Been burned, and seen to many others get burned by shoddy construction, terrible support, and haphazard quality control. 
    As I promised, here are the links to support my dislike for Dell:

    Dell knowingly sold thousands of desktop PCs with faulty components to customers

    https://www.computerworld.com/article/2514646/computer-hardware/dell-could-be-haunted-by-past-poor-support.html


    Dell agreed to pay more than $100 million in penalties to settle charges of disclosure accounting fraud filed by the SEC

    https://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/23/business/23dell.html

     

    Dell posts inaccurate graphics card comparison showing an intentionally blurry render

    https://www.engadget.com/2011/11/25/dell-posts-inaccurate-graphics-card-comparison-promptly-removes/

    [note by me: They hadn't removed it immediately. I checked their site after the article hit and it still showed the misleading image. So they lied again.]

     

    Customers complain of long support calls, difficult to understand techs

    https://web.archive.org/web/20060111225854/http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_41/b3954102.htm

    [I was in the same situation. My PC had a flashing amber power light and I couldn't turn it on. The tech was going through his repertoire of "Sir, did you install any new software recently?]


    Lawsuit Indicates Dell Hid Faults of Computers

    https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/19/technology/19docs.html?_r=1&src=busln

    [I had to deal with a lot of faulty ones at work. My home computer -- same problem, and it took three hours of frustrating phone calls to get Dell to admit the motherboard was faulty and schedule a replacement]


  • Reply 88 of 116
    lkrupp said:
    For me and I bet most Apple fans it doesn’t matter if some PC laptop has more ports, is faster by a few milliseconds, has more cores or whatever. It’s always macOS vs Windows for me and I can’t imagine using that POS operating system. I bought my wife a Dell laptop with an i7 processor, good amount of RAM because the $2000.00 software package for her Bernina 830 sewing/embroidery machine only runs on Windows. The Dell has Windows 10 installed with all current updates applied and still takes almost three times longer to boot up than my 2013 iMac running High Sierra. On the Dell sometimes it can connect to the sewing machine, sometimes it won’t and the wife has to use a USB stick to move her designs onto the machine. If I won the fastest tricked out Windows PC money could buy I would sell it for whatever I could get for it and buy another Mac. End of story.
    FWIW... there are several embroidery programs for the Mac, one called Embrilliance is Mac/Windows and it offers pretty much all the features I've seen on fancy Windows packages, if not more, and it's fairly easy to use. I have digitized logos, fixed problem files, even photographic art with it. They have a demo version for Mac and Windows available here: http://embrilliance.com/demonstration-versions Also, most Windows embroidery programs work just fine on the Mac with VMWare Fusion or Parallels, so much easier than BootCamp.
    cornchip
  • Reply 89 of 116
    Thanks--this was a fair comparison and one I'm currently contemplating. Pros and cons of both, as always. Have a 2016 MacBook Pro that I use at work, and an older unibody MacBook Pro at home. My fingers thank me every time I go back to the older keyboard. The Dell XPS models remind me of those unibody Macs in their serviceability. You can even download the service guide on how to upgrade the memory/SSD/battery on them, and only proves to me that you can make a sleek, modern ultrabook without blocking upgradeability. As for ports, the 9370 has ditched most of the traditional ports like Apple so you have the same issues there, but the new 9570 (the 15" XPS) still has them as well as full TB3, along with the new hexacore Coffeelake CPUs. Don't care about the webcam. Mine has a piece of tape on it.  :-)  Don't really care if one case is 1-2 mm longer or shorter than the other.

    Personally waiting to see what Apple releases this summer (?) in terms of a new MacBook Air before deciding on a new Mac or XPS. My hope is they would keep the existing case/keyboard but offer a current CPU, replace Thunderbolt 2 with Thunderbolt 3, and possibly offer the Retina display. Now that would be a nice modest refresh since the replacement is supposed to be around the same price as the existing Air if not a little bit less, so it'd be unrealistic to expect any dramatic upgrades.. The cynic in me however expects the Air to be replaced with a 13" MacBook with all the same limitations of that series--crap keyboard, one port, low-end CPU. I really don't care for the keyboard and the various articles I've read here and elsewhere about $700 repairs to fix them from dust are concerning. You already pay a premium for Apple products so to be told that you should have bought Applecare is an excuse of the lame "you're holding it wrong" variety.. Apple's an almost trillion dollar company and they don't need to get a free pass from their users. I'm thankful I haven't had problems with mine but would agree with those who say the new design introduced too many compromises.

    In the end...would think for most people the issue is really how tied you are to macOS though.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 90 of 116
    http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/04/campaigns/xps-linux-laptop-us

    You click and support fro Linux turns in only one option: Windows 10. How magic is that to advertise one and sell another product.
    rtefined search
    http://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/sfc/sf/xps-laptops?~ck=mn&appliedRefinements=7692
    Too bad it suppoirts Ubuntu release from April 2016. Ubuntu LTS is now going 18.04
    edited May 7
  • Reply 91 of 116
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,895member
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    KITA said:
    Soli said:
    KITA said:
    linkman said:
    KITA said:
    I'd be curious how something like the MateBook X Pro would fare. It has a 14" 3000x2000 display with the same brightness and color gamut as the 13" MBP. They also managed to stick a low power dGPU in there, the NVIDIA MX150 with 2 GB GDDR5.

    [image]
    MateBook X Pro? Just how is that not trademark infringement? Huawei even capitalizes the B in the name. And the laptop is very similar looking to the MacBook Pro. If I were Apple I'd definitely be suing.
    Why would it be a trademark infringement? While certain aspects look similar to a MacBook Pro, it has a 3:2 touch display with essentially no bezel and a camera hidden in a keyboard key. These are very distinct design features.
     
    [image]

    Apple never sued ASUS for any of their ZenBook laptops and some of those look very similar to the MacBook Air.

    [image]
    Having a distinct feature doesn't mean it's not infringing, or are you McDowell and think your burger is "distinct" because you omit the sesame seeds on the bun? The difference between MacBook Pro and MateBook X Pro are very close and they're the exact same type of product for same type of customer so I easily see how this is infringing on Apple's brand.

    [video]
    The distinct features are inherent of a different design. Even the chassis is a different shape than the MBP.
    Again—and more directly, this time—what the fuck does that have to do with the god damn name?
    When Huawei entered the laptop market it didn't take a genius to come up with 'MateBook' for naming in different versions. [...]

    The names are somewhat similar but no one is going to confuse them. Both have their own reasons for having the names they have.
    No, it only took a ripoff artist. MateBook is a copy of MacBook. Pretending otherwise is just embarrassing pandering to the chinese knockoffs. 

    My mother would completely confuse them. 
    So your mum would probably confuse any aluminium laptop for another. 

    Just look at the logo. Zero confusion.
    Just look at the screen bezel. Zero confusion.
    Just look for the webcam. Zero confusion.
    Just look at the aspect ratio. Zero confusion.

    Then turn the thing on and touch the screen. Zero confusion.
    Spill some liquid on the keyboard. Zero confusion.

    According to some reviews, it's almost as if Huawei is guilty. Guilty of making the MacBook Pro that Apple wants to make.

    You appear to be incapable of giving credit where credit is due.

    http://www.alphr.com/huawei/1008613/huawei-matebook-x-pro-review

    At the end of the day, competition is what counts and that is what we have. The more the better.
  • Reply 92 of 116
    commentzillacommentzilla Posts: 114member
    sflocal said:
    rob53 said:
    mbdrake76 said:
    rob53 said:
    Lost me when the article mentioned Dell. Could care less how a 4-year user of Macs thinks any Windows PC compares to a Mac. It doesn’t, no way, no how. 
    I pick whatever tool gets the job done regardless of whether it is a PC or a Mac. Happily switch between them. There's plenty of stuff that a Mac is absolutely brilliant at, and similarly for a Windows based PC. This mindset that X is far superior to Y and nothing else matter is absolute BS.
    Call it what you want. I’ve been managing and operating computerized systems since 1976 and the best complete system I ever managed was based on Apple equipment. Windows systems have always been a pain to even attempt to secure as well as the constant patching. 
    Windows is the standard at businesses.  That’s not going to change anytime soon.  The admin at a shop I consult with blew a gasket when I wanted to use my Mac on their network.  Now, more folks are doing it, he’s being ordered to allow it, and guess which users have almost zero issues?

    i think he fears that Macs threaten his job security.

    I administer windows machines on a Win2012 server AD setup at another site and let me tell you it’s a pain in the backside.  Windows machines always needs babysitting.
    Is this a post from 10 years ago? Macs are everywhere now. Get on a plane and they usually make up 50% or more of the computers and smartphones.
  • Reply 93 of 116
    sflocal said:
    rob53 said:
    mbdrake76 said:
    rob53 said:
    Lost me when the article mentioned Dell. Could care less how a 4-year user of Macs thinks any Windows PC compares to a Mac. It doesn’t, no way, no how. 
    I pick whatever tool gets the job done regardless of whether it is a PC or a Mac. Happily switch between them. There's plenty of stuff that a Mac is absolutely brilliant at, and similarly for a Windows based PC. This mindset that X is far superior to Y and nothing else matter is absolute BS.
    Call it what you want. I’ve been managing and operating computerized systems since 1976 and the best complete system I ever managed was based on Apple equipment. Windows systems have always been a pain to even attempt to secure as well as the constant patching. 
    Windows is the standard at businesses.  That’s not going to change anytime soon.  The admin at a shop I consult with blew a gasket when I wanted to use my Mac on their network.  Now, more folks are doing it, he’s being ordered to allow it, and guess which users have almost zero issues?

    i think he fears that Macs threaten his job security.

    I administer windows machines on a Win2012 server AD setup at another site and let me tell you it’s a pain in the backside.  Windows machines always needs babysitting.

    This isn’t what I see at all. Basically my whole software company uses MacBook Pro’s. Backend Developers do remote into windows servers to code (have been doing so for a decade)

    Instead what I have found is a HUGE shift to Apple as companies have let employees pick their machines and most want apple machines.

    of course a company without the funds and stuck in the past wont update.

    Apple one of the worlds biggest software companies uses Apple products. ;-)
  • Reply 95 of 116
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,759member
    Soli said:
    ... but with macOS the Menu Bar is quite varied in its contents. It can grow or shrink in thickness and the number of pixels used for the elements based on the app and how you scale the display in System Preferences. I'd say that most people have the space on their Mac, but I don't think Apple would be happen with it is most didn't have a problem. ...
    Or, they could just take the approach they have with the new App Store... :wink: 


  • Reply 96 of 116
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,759member
    StrangeDays said:
    Speak for yourself. All I see is garbage, certainly not enviable. Today’s Macs are best performing and most enjoyable versions of Macs I’ve ever used. Go get a Dell. 
    They're always the best performing Macs you've used, heh. If they start getting slower than the previous generation, then we'll really know we're in trouble! This isn't saying a whole lot though (but, I guess even Apple execs, including Jobs, felt it was worth stating each keynote).

    If I could so easily leave the Mac eco-system right now, I would. Apple doesn't currently have a computer that is a good fit for me, and if the problems keep escalating, it probably wouldn't suck too much more of my time to be on Windows.

    StrangeDays said:
    Since switching my household over to OS X with the intel launch, I have never, ever had to reload a system. I wouldn’t even know how I’m so out of practice. My Windows machines have required countless reinstalls and re-images. I don’t run into bugs or issues and our Macs just work perfectly. 

    So by your own data today’s OS X machines are more reliable than Macs of yore. With more users. 
    Well, I've had to reload a couple OS X machines so far... when even the upper levels of Apple support couldn't help. But, in general, yes, you could just keep running and OS X/macOS machine and upgrading each time. Apple has done quite well with that and the migration tools.

    But, I think you might have misread or misunderstood what I said. Today's Macs might be more reliable than System 7 (etc.) days, but not as reliable as the OS X of the 2000s. That's the problem. Maybe they'll eventually get it worked out, but OS X kind of took a dive after they stated merging 'cloud' and iOS stuff into it. Well, and too much mucking with core technologies and stuff like that too.

    sflocal said:
    Windows is the standard at businesses.  That’s not going to change anytime soon.  The admin at a shop I consult with blew a gasket when I wanted to use my Mac on their network.  Now, more folks are doing it, he’s being ordered to allow it, and guess which users have almost zero issues?

    i think he fears that Macs threaten his job security.

    I administer windows machines on a Win2012 server AD setup at another site and let me tell you it’s a pain in the backside.  Windows machines always needs babysitting.
    Is this a post from 10 years ago? Macs are everywhere now. Get on a plane and they usually make up 50% or more of the computers and smartphones.
    Heh, maybe those 'IT guys' never get out of the server room, though. It has been a decade, I guess, since I've been in big-corporate IT, but I'm kind of guessing not all that much has changed. Those big 'machines' change *very* slowly. They are probably still using IE6 too.

    gowhitestripes said:
    Instead what I have found is a HUGE shift to Apple as companies have let employees pick their machines and most want apple machines.
    I wonder what percent of Fortune 100 companies do this, though. Yes, the vast majority of small entrepreneurial startups and small software dev companies use Macs. For those places, MBPs are pretty much standard issue.
  • Reply 97 of 116
    danvmdanvm Posts: 692member
    sflocal said:
    rob53 said:
    mbdrake76 said:
    rob53 said:
    Lost me when the article mentioned Dell. Could care less how a 4-year user of Macs thinks any Windows PC compares to a Mac. It doesn’t, no way, no how. 
    I pick whatever tool gets the job done regardless of whether it is a PC or a Mac. Happily switch between them. There's plenty of stuff that a Mac is absolutely brilliant at, and similarly for a Windows based PC. This mindset that X is far superior to Y and nothing else matter is absolute BS.
    Call it what you want. I’ve been managing and operating computerized systems since 1976 and the best complete system I ever managed was based on Apple equipment. Windows systems have always been a pain to even attempt to secure as well as the constant patching. 
    Windows is the standard at businesses.  That’s not going to change anytime soon.  The admin at a shop I consult with blew a gasket when I wanted to use my Mac on their network.  Now, more folks are doing it, he’s being ordered to allow it, and guess which users have almost zero issues?

    i think he fears that Macs threaten his job security.

    I administer windows machines on a Win2012 server AD setup at another site and let me tell you it’s a pain in the backside.  Windows machines always needs babysitting.
    Is this a post from 10 years ago? Macs are everywhere now. Get on a plane and they usually make up 50% or more of the computers and smartphones.
    Maybe inside the plane is 50%, but as soon as you get out, still below 10%.

    https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/12/mac-market-share-2017/  ;
    cornchip
  • Reply 98 of 116
    danvmdanvm Posts: 692member
    sflocal said:
    rob53 said:
    mbdrake76 said:
    rob53 said:
    Lost me when the article mentioned Dell. Could care less how a 4-year user of Macs thinks any Windows PC compares to a Mac. It doesn’t, no way, no how. 
    I pick whatever tool gets the job done regardless of whether it is a PC or a Mac. Happily switch between them. There's plenty of stuff that a Mac is absolutely brilliant at, and similarly for a Windows based PC. This mindset that X is far superior to Y and nothing else matter is absolute BS.
    Call it what you want. I’ve been managing and operating computerized systems since 1976 and the best complete system I ever managed was based on Apple equipment. Windows systems have always been a pain to even attempt to secure as well as the constant patching. 
    Windows is the standard at businesses.  That’s not going to change anytime soon.  The admin at a shop I consult with blew a gasket when I wanted to use my Mac on their network.  Now, more folks are doing it, he’s being ordered to allow it, and guess which users have almost zero issues?

    i think he fears that Macs threaten his job security.

    I administer windows machines on a Win2012 server AD setup at another site and let me tell you it’s a pain in the backside.  Windows machines always needs babysitting.

    This isn’t what I see at all. Basically my whole software company uses MacBook Pro’s. Backend Developers do remote into windows servers to code (have been doing so for a decade)

    Instead what I have found is a HUGE shift to Apple as companies have let employees pick their machines and most want apple machines.

    of course a company without the funds and stuck in the past wont update.


    The huge shift to Apple still below 10% of marketshare.

    Apple one of the worlds biggest software companies uses Apple products. ;-)
    Looks like Apple isn't one of the biggest software companies, or at least top 10. 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_software_companies

  • Reply 99 of 116
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,759member
    danvm said:
    Maybe inside the plane is 50%, but as soon as you get out, still below 10%.
    It really depends on environment.

    If you go in most big companies, it will be PCs on most people's desk. The Macs might be in the art/marketing dept, or on the CEOs desk, but there won't be many of them. If you go on a college campus, it's probably over 50% Mac, in my experience. If you go in a coffee shop, likewise. If you go in most entrepreneurial startups, it's going to be mostly Mac if not all Mac. Podcasters, mostly Mac. YouTube creators, heavily Mac.

    I'm even seeing a far higher percentage of average home users running Mac. But, that too is location dependent. The last smaller city we lived in was far to the PC side of things. Where we live now (relatively big city), it's more Mac based.

    The problem is that *SO* many PCs get put on the average worker desks, used as point of sales terminals, used for all sorts of industry uses... it skews the numbers. If you were to limit the stats to actual user/owners of a computer, I think you'd find it much closer to 50% than you think.
    cornchip
  • Reply 100 of 116
    danvmdanvm Posts: 692member
    cgWerks said:
    danvm said:
    Maybe inside the plane is 50%, but as soon as you get out, still below 10%.
    It really depends on environment.

    If you go in most big companies, it will be PCs on most people's desk. The Macs might be in the art/marketing dept, or on the CEOs desk, but there won't be many of them. If you go on a college campus, it's probably over 50% Mac, in my experience. If you go in a coffee shop, likewise. If you go in most entrepreneurial startups, it's going to be mostly Mac if not all Mac. Podcasters, mostly Mac. YouTube creators, heavily Mac.

    I'm even seeing a far higher percentage of average home users running Mac. But, that too is location dependent. The last smaller city we lived in was far to the PC side of things. Where we live now (relatively big city), it's more Mac based.

    The problem is that *SO* many PCs get put on the average worker desks, used as point of sales terminals, used for all sorts of industry uses... it skews the numbers. If you were to limit the stats to actual user/owners of a computer, I think you'd find it much closer to 50% than you think.
    You can manage numbers and stats to show different results.  But as a whole, Mac are still less than 10 percent of the whole market.  Last year 259.5 PC's were sold and 20M of them were Mac's.  
    https://venturebeat.com/2018/01/11/gartner-and-idc-agree-hp-shipped-the-most-pcs-in-2017/
    avon b7
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