What to expect from Apple's WWDC 2018 keynote -- and what not to

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  • Reply 41 of 140
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 3,589administrator
    emoeller said:
    So I’m hoping for new Apple Watches & bands (the great article mentioned WatchOS but then skipped over the hardware)

    -  bands with additional sensors (heart, blood pressure, metabolism) and batteries (in the band) to allow up to a week on a charge 

    -  An upgrade option for those who purchased a high end initial Watch that would essentially swap out the display and electronics.  This would allow Apple to produce a high end watch that could be passed down from generation to generation as fine mechanical watches are today. Making them iconic.


    I’m hoping for a MBP upgrade, but as discussed Apple may wait another generation of Intel chips to allow 32Gb ram (my 2013 is getting long in the tooth, so please hurry this along)

    A new form of wearable computer - perhaps a arm sleeve cuff/band that would combine Apple Phone & Watch into a single device with a large curved display and much better battery life.  Prelude to  future add on AR glasses that would initially be hardwired to the cuff for power & data (which will require 8k resolution per eye)

    That at of course would mean an 8k monitor for Macs...




    The LTE Apple Watch was announced last fall. We're not expecting new hardware until this fall.
  • Reply 42 of 140
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 5,842member
    bitmod said:
    lkrupp said:
    My sincere advice is to leave the Apple ecosystem. If you think for one millisecond Apple is going to produce a Gaming PC you are living in another universe. No, really, you are. And then you proceed to trash everything else about Apple except for macOS. You say you’re impressed with iPhones and iPads but then say iOS is boring. After years of “disappointment” and “depression” you are way past leaving the platform. Go. Leave. Be happy. Apple most assuredly does not care about your user demographic. Serious PC gamers wouldn’t touch a Mac with a ten foot pole. Go to a Frys or MicroCenter, buy a bunch of parts off the shelves and put together your dream gaming machine and be done with it. Seriously. You don’t belong here and probably will not respond either.
    Harsh man. 
    I would argue that every single Mac user wishes they could play games better on their Mac - who wouldn’t want a better GPU? 
    Who wouldn’t want a better graphics engine?

    There are millions of users who play games on their Mac. Most playing Blizz games cuz that’s all that runs half decent on the Mac. 
    Lots of Pros play games on their macs. 

    I think you underestimate the frustration of Mac users. 
    Doesn’t change reality — Apple has never been interested in building gaming rigs. Nor will they likely reverse course. Such machines needs readily upgradable components and that isn’t the design ethos of Macs.
  • Reply 43 of 140
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,627member
    wizard69 said:
    macapfel said:
    macapfel said:
    I think you (almost) completely forgot about Service and Media. Service: better integration of Home, Family-Sharing, ApplePay, Health on Mac with expanded analytics, ... Media: more Music content, easier access through multiple HomePods, Movies, ... And sure, Siri update!
    Didn't forget. This isn't really a software-centric piece, though.
    Oh, OK. Just from the title I thought this is what could be expected from WWDC as well.
    Yeah, we talked about it briefly, you're right. Software expansions beyond version numbering are WAY harder to predict.

    It seems obvious  that Apple needs to do something with OS for iPads -- especially when they are used with a keyboard.  They could add a cursor to the display and a touchpad to the kb.   Given that, Apple could create a proOS [sic] that incorporates many of the features of macOS: multiple windows; file system; multiuser; Xcode; etc.

    Apple is rumored to be releasing some ARM-based Macs by this WWDC or the next. It would make sense to announce/deliver a proOS Beta to developers next week... maybe, followed by a public beta in a month.

    One can think of a whole lot of advantages of doing this now!


    ARM macs: probably not this WWDC, and probably not next. Nothing we've heard or seen suggests hardware any sooner than 2020. You're right that some discussions with developers probably need to be had.
    Im not sure!      If Apple really intends to go this route, Mac specific ARM chips would already be developed.    For something like the Mac Book Apple can get by with modest modifications to the. A 11.   Even the Mini could  go this route.   

    The other machines would need completely new chips.  One thing you dont see much said about is custom Apple co-processrs to work with Intel hardware.  Maybe a discreet GPU with AR and ML acccelerstion.    This woukd be a great way for apple to bridge the transition gap.   

    Yeah...

    Here's a quote from last year:


    Seems like a lot of wiggle room solely by the kind of ARM processors... Solely, My Ass!

    Then there's this:


    If you read the above macroscaler article you will find that it requires more cores than are in the typical iPhone or iPad -- but those cores can be GPU correspondence as well as CPU cores.  

    I Can't find the link, but I read that when Apple started making its own GPUs on the A9 it had 6 GPU cores and 4 CPU cores.  Two of the CPU cores could run efficiently at the default low-power, but could be jacked up to match the high-power cores -- and match the power of an Inter I5 chip.

    Now, that's 3 APU iterations, ago.
    All APU chips have a memory bandwidth problem!      apples A series is no exception and that bandwith issue would be very apparent trying to replace Intel processors.  Thankfully that is fairly easy for Apple to rectify.    
  • Reply 44 of 140
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,343member
    bitmod said:
    lkrupp said:
    My sincere advice is to leave the Apple ecosystem. If you think for one millisecond Apple is going to produce a Gaming PC you are living in another universe. No, really, you are. And then you proceed to trash everything else about Apple except for macOS. You say you’re impressed with iPhones and iPads but then say iOS is boring. After years of “disappointment” and “depression” you are way past leaving the platform. Go. Leave. Be happy. Apple most assuredly does not care about your user demographic. Serious PC gamers wouldn’t touch a Mac with a ten foot pole. Go to a Frys or MicroCenter, buy a bunch of parts off the shelves and put together your dream gaming machine and be done with it. Seriously. You don’t belong here and probably will not respond either.
    Harsh man. 
    I would argue that every single Mac user wishes they could play games better on their Mac 
    I don’t, so you’re wrong: not every single Mac user wishes they could play better games on their Mac. 

    If I want to play games I’ll use the Nintendo, which I haven’t played a game on in six years. 
    edited June 2
  • Reply 45 of 140
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 315member
    I’m just wondering will they ever announce the transition & if so, when.  Everything are just rumors for now and really bare.  I’m sure their CPU design team is more than capable to build a microarchitecture that can compete with Intel.
  • Reply 46 of 140
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 315member
    bitmod said:
    lkrupp said:
    My sincere advice is to leave the Apple ecosystem. If you think for one millisecond Apple is going to produce a Gaming PC you are living in another universe. No, really, you are. And then you proceed to trash everything else about Apple except for macOS. You say you’re impressed with iPhones and iPads but then say iOS is boring. After years of “disappointment” and “depression” you are way past leaving the platform. Go. Leave. Be happy. Apple most assuredly does not care about your user demographic. Serious PC gamers wouldn’t touch a Mac with a ten foot pole. Go to a Frys or MicroCenter, buy a bunch of parts off the shelves and put together your dream gaming machine and be done with it. Seriously. You don’t belong here and probably will not respond either.
    Harsh man. 
    I would argue that every single Mac user wishes they could play games better on their Mac - who wouldn’t want a better GPU? 
    Who wouldn’t want a better graphics engine?

    There are millions of users who play games on their Mac. Most playing Blizz games cuz that’s all that runs half decent on the Mac. 
    Lots of Pros play games on their macs. 

    I think you underestimate the frustration of Mac users. 
    Well, I play games on Macs, not every big titles from the year it released, but I do.  As long I don’t expect them to run under Ultra in 4K, most of them runs fine.

    other than that, there are options for Thunderbolt 3 & possible slots for the Mac Pro.  Even Apple advertise some sort of gaming features on the Macs.
    edited June 2 StrangeDays
  • Reply 47 of 140
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,343member
    bitmod said:
    lkrupp said:
    My sincere advice is to leave the Apple ecosystem. If you think for one millisecond Apple is going to produce a Gaming PC you are living in another universe. No, really, you are. And then you proceed to trash everything else about Apple except for macOS. You say you’re impressed with iPhones and iPads but then say iOS is boring. After years of “disappointment” and “depression” you are way past leaving the platform. Go. Leave. Be happy. Apple most assuredly does not care about your user demographic. Serious PC gamers wouldn’t touch a Mac with a ten foot pole. Go to a Frys or MicroCenter, buy a bunch of parts off the shelves and put together your dream gaming machine and be done with it. Seriously. You don’t belong here and probably will not respond either.
    Harsh man. 
    I would argue that every single Mac user wishes they could play games better on their Mac - who wouldn’t want a better GPU? 
    Who wouldn’t want a better graphics engine?

    There are millions of users who play games on their Mac. Most playing Blizz games cuz that’s all that runs half decent on the Mac. 
    Lots of Pros play games on their macs. 

    I think you underestimate the frustration of Mac users. 
    Doesn’t change reality — Apple has never been interested in building gaming rigs. Nor will they likely reverse course. Such machines needs readily upgradable components and that isn’t the design ethos of Macs.
    The problem here is that very few people here are developers, so they wade in with their wish-of-the-day, without any real thought to context, or the company they’re talking about. 

    Odd that hat no one has mentioned the Marzipan thing … ah, but that’s something only developers are interested in, so no surprise there. 

    However, I still think that Apple will offer a machine that can be upgraded through modules that you can swap in and out externally. But this will be unpopular here for two reasons:

    1. It will not allow every single screw to be replaced by a cheaper screw by people who have no intention of opening up the machine. 
    2. It won’t be available, fully-specced, for the price of a stale donut. 

  • Reply 48 of 140
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,666moderator
    Personally I have been really disappointed & depressed with the hardware in the MacBook Pro & the iMac for a long time. Plus I wished that Apple would be more serious about a Gaming PC. I love Apple’s MacOS, but in order to have a great Gaming PC I had to build a Windows Gaming Machine. Personally I hate using Windows, but that is the only way for me to play really great games with awesome graphics. Another thing is that I wish Apple would not be so obsessed with thinnest. Because of this we are limited in what hardware can be put into a iMac & in a MacBook Pro. I want to stay in the Apple ecosystem, but cannot do that if I want to play seriously great games. Another thing I would wish for is for Apple to ditch Intel. Intel has been awful to Apple treating them like they are crap & never producing any CPUs that is mind blowing. I would really like Apple since they already have a great relationship with AMD for graphics to use their CPUs or work with Apple to create a awesome CPU just for Apple Mac devices. I really believe that AMD is humble enough to be willing to go the extra miles for Apple to create great hardware if they can work out the problems with Thunderbolt 3 compatibility. For me the last 5 years I have not been impressed with the Mac hardware Apple has brought out. On the other hand I have been really impressed with the iPhones & iPads devices. Personally I think iOS still has much more room to grow & especially would like to see a refresh of the GUI to make me feel like I have really updated to a new iOS. In my humble opinion I feel that iOS GUI has been looking boring of late. Gets updated, but still feels like the same old iOS. So in the end I am not holding my breath or excited when it comes to the 2018 WWDC. I have been so disappointed year after year that I just don’t care as much as I use to. Especially after the release of the 2016 MacBook Pros. Which is sad because I really am a Apple fan & want them to be great with Mac devices along with their awesome iOS devices. If they can ditch Intel they will be better for it. Till then I will be hoping & waiting for the Mac lineups to improve dramatically. 
    I wonder if there might be, in Apple’s DNA, an aversion to dedicated gaming machines.  Contemporary Apple seems to want users to be out in the world experiencing life, getting exercise and all that.  Macs are for artistic professionals, and for developing iOS software in that view of the world.  I could be mistaken.  
    rotateleftbyte
  • Reply 49 of 140
    Although a lot of peoplelove the macbook air...i think Apple will drop it from their line up. The whole “Air” moniker It really doesn’t make sense anymore. The macbook is more thin & air like. Giving the air a retina screen finally just seems pointless. It will only increase the price of the air, and that seems to be the main thing going for it over the macbook. Like the macbook’s air’s shortcoming was the lack of a retina screen, the macbook’s shortcoming is it’s lack of ports. Apple should just give the macbook some extra ports and discontinue the macbook air. Problem solved. No more confusion and streamline the laptop line up.
  • Reply 51 of 140
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 3,082member
    ROFL...
    Apple schedules a software themed show, but all the Apple Fans can talk about is hardware!

    Yet, what sets Apple apart from the rest is its software and ecosystems.   Hardware tends to stay abreast or bit ahead of the competition.  But otherwise it essentially (especially Mac hardware) is just off the shelf stuff that any sophisticated organization can buy, stuff in a nice box and sell...

    But NOBODY can touch Apple's software or ecosystem.  So let's all focus on the hardware!   LOL...
  • Reply 52 of 140
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    So let's all focus on the hardware!   LOL...
    Why should we settle for shit hardware?
    cgWerksascii
  • Reply 53 of 140
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,730member
    Rayz2016 said:
    The problem here is that very few people here are developers, so they wade in with their wish-of-the-day, without any real thought to context, or the company they’re talking about. 
    Listen to the recent episode of ATP podcast... 3 developers talking about what they want.
    1. Apple to slow down on software  (which, supposedly, Apple is going to do... which should mean things being less about the software, at least features to talk about).
    2. Demonstrate their commitment to the Mac

    So, while I'm not a developer, that's pretty much what I want as well. Unfortunately, this seems to run counter to the rumor-mill which is saying mostly software, little hardware.
  • Reply 54 of 140
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,730member

    radarthekat said:
    I wonder if there might be, in Apple’s DNA, an aversion to dedicated gaming machines.  Contemporary Apple seems to want users to be out in the world experiencing life, getting exercise and all that.  Macs are for artistic professionals, and for developing iOS software in that view of the world.  I could be mistaken.  
    I think that's just mostly marketing for the Watch as they finally found a use for it. If they were worried about people experiencing the world, they'd have to kill off their best product (iPhone), as that seems to be one of the biggest barriers to people experiencing the world today.

    But, yes, Macs have always been about creative professionals as one of their verticals... they just accidentally also do OK in gaming from time to time. It just isn't a focus they want to chase, IMO.

    ROFL...
    Apple schedules a software themed show, but all the Apple Fans can talk about is hardware!

    Yet, what sets Apple apart from the rest is its software and ecosystems.   Hardware tends to stay abreast or bit ahead of the competition.  But otherwise it essentially (especially Mac hardware) is just off the shelf stuff that any sophisticated organization can buy, stuff in a nice box and sell...

    But NOBODY can touch Apple's software or ecosystem.  So let's all focus on the hardware!   LOL...
    Maybe because the dang hardware is so horribly behind???
    And, Apple is supposed to be taking a rest on software features and fixing all the problems... so the show shouldn't really be software focused for the keynote. Sure, the breakout sessions will mostly be about the depths of the software.

    I agree it's the software that is key, though... which is all the more reason to take a break from feature-itis and stabilize it!
    And the services, well, they are just being driven by the hardware/software. If people weren't invested in the eco-system already, they'd not give a rip about any of Apple's services.

    Once you understand this, the house-of-cards nature starts to become a bit more apparent. They really need to be in emergency mode right now, IMO.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 55 of 140
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,730member
    columbus said:
    Mike Wuerthele said:
    That'a assuming they want to go i7 quad-core versus the dual-core in the 13-inch MBP to differentiate between it and the 15-inch. I'm not convinced they do, and that's the premise. We'll see.

    I agree with the basic concept, though. A quad-core eighth generation processor outperforms the dual-core seventh. What it does not do is outperform the quad-core seventh, and that's the point.
    I guess you can make a case either way and it is hard to know what will happen as the full MacBook range is such a confusing inconsistent mess.
    Pragmatically I think (aside from fixing the keyboards) it would make sense to move all the 13" models over to quad core 15W CPUs and drop the touch bar and the price.
    That would leave a very competitive laptop for most people and be the start of rationalising the lineup. I really hope we see this at WWDC.
    The next decision is to either merge the MacBook and Air into one good product or put them both out of their misery.
    Isn't the 13" differentiated from the 15" by ...  SIZE ?
    They are both pro models, so they should have the best stuff one could fit in them, or at least have it be an option.
    There was once a time when even the non-pro Macs had quad-core... I had an entry-level iMac with quad-core in it. The Mini had a quad-core option.
    Now, you can buy a MacBook Pro that doesn't even offer quad-core as an option? That seems to need fixed.
    And, if they feel they must make the 15" superior so they can charge lots more $$$ for it, then put the 6-core in it.
  • Reply 56 of 140
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,499member
    Just for grins...

    Several What Ifs:

    • Apple has Developed A New RISC chip for Macs 
    • There is a variant for iPads
    • Apple has legally reverse-engineered Intel ala AMD


  • Reply 57 of 140
    flydogflydog Posts: 105member
    Personally I have been really disappointed & depressed with the hardware in the MacBook Pro & the iMac for a long time. Plus I wished that Apple would be more serious about a Gaming PC. I love Apple’s MacOS, but in order to have a great Gaming PC I had to build a Windows Gaming Machine. Personally I hate using Windows, but that is the only way for me to play really great games with awesome graphics. Another thing is that I wish Apple would not be so obsessed with thinnest. Because of this we are limited in what hardware can be put into a iMac & in a MacBook Pro. I want to stay in the Apple ecosystem, but cannot do that if I want to play seriously great games. Another thing I would wish for is for Apple to ditch Intel. Intel has been awful to Apple treating them like they are crap & never producing any CPUs that is mind blowing. I would really like Apple since they already have a great relationship with AMD for graphics to use their CPUs or work with Apple to create a awesome CPU just for Apple Mac devices. I really believe that AMD is humble enough to be willing to go the extra miles for Apple to create great hardware if they can work out the problems with Thunderbolt 3 compatibility. For me the last 5 years I have not been impressed with the Mac hardware Apple has brought out. On the other hand I have been really impressed with the iPhones & iPads devices. Personally I think iOS still has much more room to grow & especially would like to see a refresh of the GUI to make me feel like I have really updated to a new iOS. In my humble opinion I feel that iOS GUI has been looking boring of late. Gets updated, but still feels like the same old iOS. So in the end I am not holding my breath or excited when it comes to the 2018 WWDC. I have been so disappointed year after year that I just don’t care as much as I use to. Especially after the release of the 2016 MacBook Pros. Which is sad because I really am a Apple fan & want them to be great with Mac devices along with their awesome iOS devices. If they can ditch Intel they will be better for it. Till then I will be hoping & waiting for the Mac lineups to improve dramatically. 
    You might find this video on the use of paragraphs useful: 

    cgWerks
  • Reply 58 of 140
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,730member
    Just for grins...

    Several What Ifs:

    • Apple has Developed A New RISC chip for Macs 
    • There is a variant for iPads
    • Apple has legally reverse-engineered Intel ala AMD
    Then I'll take back some of the negative stuff I've said over the last couple of years, and have a bit more hope in future Apple again.

    However, they'd still need some Intel-based updates until the above has matured or proven itself capable for those who need x86 compatibility. I don't think that's the kind of thing people would just leap into.
  • Reply 59 of 140
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,499member
    cgWerks said:
    Just for grins...

    Several What Ifs:

    • Apple has Developed A New RISC chip for Macs 
    • There is a variant for iPads
    • Apple has legally reverse-engineered Intel ala AMD
    Then I'll take back some of the negative stuff I've said over the last couple of years, and have a bit more hope in future Apple again.

    However, they'd still need some Intel-based updates until the above has matured or proven itself capable for those who need x86 compatibility. I don't think that's the kind of thing people would just leap into.
    I think that Apple has the talent and enough time to have accomplished this — Including the Intel RevEng for lower-end Macs... and they seem to be working on tech for high-end Macs, as well as cross-platform graphics.

    Obviously, Apple won’t sell their chips/tech to others.  If Apple is in a place to reveal this at WWDC 2018, they could make some interesting hardware announcements on Monday... and put a tent pole in the ground for the future.

    As a Developer it makes sense!

  • Reply 60 of 140
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 315member
    cgWerks said:
    Just for grins...

    Several What Ifs:

    • Apple has Developed A New RISC chip for Macs 
    • There is a variant for iPads
    • Apple has legally reverse-engineered Intel ala AMD
    Then I'll take back some of the negative stuff I've said over the last couple of years, and have a bit more hope in future Apple again.

    However, they'd still need some Intel-based updates until the above has matured or proven itself capable for those who need x86 compatibility. I don't think that's the kind of thing people would just leap into.
    I think that Apple has the talent and enough time to have accomplished this — Including the Intel RevEng for lower-end Macs... and they seem to be working on tech for high-end Macs, as well as cross-platform graphics.

    Obviously, Apple won’t sell their chips/tech to others.  If Apple is in a place to reveal this at WWDC 2018, they could make some interesting hardware announcements on Monday... and put a tent pole in the ground for the future.

    As a Developer it makes sense!

    Their CPU design team could be one of the best for today and definitely can create a core that’s as powerful (if not more) as the one offered from Intel.  Apple is the only one that build powerful ARM cores for now (Samsung is catching up though), and Intel haven’t change their microarchitecture since Skylake.

    I don’t really trust Geekbench results, but then the cores they build inside an iPhone doesn’t show its full potential.
    edited June 2
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