What to expect from Apple's WWDC 2018 keynote -- and what not to

123457»

Comments

  • Reply 121 of 140
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 3,102member
    Unfortunately, he either doesn't read well of is intentionally misunderstanding my posts... I never said that hardware is irrelevant.
    I understand exactly what you’re saying; I just reject the premise. The Dub Dub Deece has been as much about hardware as about software.
    WWDC is about software & ecosystem  -- which is what makes Apple shine.
    They ought to discontinue the event, then. No displays, no networking… what ecosystem?
    Yet, he and others can only see and focus on hardware....
    Okay, now I’m smirking. Please explain how hardware is not part of a technology ecosystem.
    Basically, with a few exceptions, in the Mac line Apple does enough hardware wise to stay in the top tier.
    What aren’t the exceptions? Apple does more to excel with SECONDARY hardware than with primary hardware. They were first with high-res displays, first with quality cameras, first with whatever battery tech (which, yes, is mostly software) lets them get such good battery life… but their primary hardware is woefully out of date or simply crippled due to the shape/style of their products.
    In smart phones they stay barely ahead of Samsung. Actually, most years, they're ahead for 6 months until Samsung releases their latest...
    That’s barely? 6 months in the phone field is like having a car that does 50 MPG 5 years before anyone else does it–and cheaper.
    LOL...  How's that tunnel vision?   Hardware, hardware, hardware, hardware....  The whole world is hardware...
  • Reply 122 of 140
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 6,447member
    Once again y’all are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Happens every WWDC.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 123 of 140
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 315member
    lkrupp said:
    Once again y’all are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Happens every WWDC.
    Don't disappoint me about what it should work.
  • Reply 124 of 140
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 315member
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:
    DuhSesame said:

     Apple is the only one that build powerful ARM cores for now (Samsung is catching up though), and Intel haven’t change their microarchitecture since Skylake.

    I don’t really trust Geekbench results, but then the cores they build inside an iPhone doesn’t show its full potential.
    NVIDIA has also been further developing their own cores. Although, we haven't seen them used outside of their automotive hardware.

    Xavier SoC:


    Geekbench has its flaws, but a lot of the time it depends on what's being asked. For example, when the A9X was first released, it had similar results in Geekbench to a Core m3-6Y30. However, when it was tested in SPEC benchmark, it turned out to be weaker in almost every regard. One other aspect of Geekbench that needs to be considered, is the fact that there are pauses between workloads to avoid thermal throttling, so it doesn't necessarily represent the real world performance. 
    Right, thermal throttling.  The CPU in A-series have to slow down after a long period, and not to mention the frequency is only around 2.3GHz.  personal computers usually can achieve higher frequencies for a long period because of their cooling system.
    A couple of things:
    • Phil Schiller has already said that Apple has no plans for machines powered solely by the kind of ARM processors used in the iPhone and iPad. 
    • AFAICT, all Intel-based Macs already have a cooling system.

    So, throttling/cooling may not be issues.
    Sure, back in 2000 they said they’ve never switch to x86 too.

    And when you want to talk about thermal throttling, check out most laptops on notebookcheck.  I’m afraid that lots of Macs are no exception.
    edited June 3
  • Reply 125 of 140
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 315member
    cgWerks said:
    StrangeDays said:
    Boy you two should write television — such creative narratives you cook up. It’s all nonsense, of course... I use Apple services often and gladly. Music subscription, movie rental, storage, etc. No plans to quit and not interested in competing service providers. 

    As for you claim that Apple is disgusting and doesn’t care if things work anymore...what can I say, that’s pure insanity from someone getting high on nostalgia fumes. I supported university Mac labs in the ‘90s and things are waaay easier and better in every way today. In every way. I’ve never seen better Mac hardware, and I’ve never seen a more open, communicative Apple. Time to get yourself a Dell, buddy, and reap all the value-add that surely awaits you outside of disgusting old Apple. 
    Difference is, I'm not a fanboy.

    I also use some Apple services, because I'm on the platform. Off-platform services are better, though. Dropbox is much better than iCloud. As horrible as the UIs and privacy are for Google, their services are more solid and feature-rich. There are oodles of music and video services.

    There just isn't much special about Apple's services, was my point. If you weren't on the Apple platform, you wouldn't be on the outside saying, "Gee, I sure wish I could use Apple xyz service!"

    What I meant by disgusting, is in comparing how they cared about quality in the past to now, not compared to the competition. I also supported Macs back in the 90s. Sure, it's easier now, but so isn't supporting PCs. However, supporting Macs now isn't easier than supporting them a decade or so ago.

    Your comment about Apple hardware never being better is a bit perplexing though. Is that pure fanboy? How can you say that when Apple used to incorporate the latest and greatest, often months before PC makers... isn't better than lagging a year or so behind? If you mean they are the best, like they say every keynote address... well, then sure, they are obviously faster than a machine from 10 years ago. That's just a stupid 'duh' marketing throw-away.
    True, not everyone like the new thing, but eventually it will solved by improving and seeing the promise.  And now it’s hard to feel like they even tried to make it truth.  There should be no reason why take so long to refine a product.

    I still don’t want to make a switch.  When I checked XPS (or other laptops) I always nitpicking about their designs, except Macs (I can accept new things easier than most).
    cgWerks
  • Reply 126 of 140



    Having trouble with forum software, posting images. Anyway, I have 8GB rMBP 10,1 OSX 10.10.5 as can be seen the mega power user I am, doing stuff like email & net surfing, lol...all I need is a 12" Macbook w 8GB ram? Uh huh, if you say so. I run about 25 tabs in each browser, it was opening 6 more tabs to research my post here, so just tech sites, no video hogs like cable network news...I often have similar problems when I just open a single tab of msnbc, foxnews, or that stinker of a RAM hog, cnn.com. I'm sure this would happen with Chrome or Safari. In fact I get similar problems where the system become unresponsive, basically stalls out on a HP 2009 i7 core laptop with 4GB RAM using Opera that also slows down after opening 10 or more tabs, and running it for days on end. Restarting is what is needed to free up the memory completely, but simply quiting and restarting the broswer is all that is needed...until a few hrs later, or the next day, when the browser memory leaks/holds on memory cause this problem,

    Hey Apple/Microsoft/PC world,,,hammer on the browsers to get them to work with the friggin Net, so I can still use it the way I used to back in a decade ago, before the net required 5G cellular & 1GB Fios connections ( only have 100Mbps cable now, Verizon 20-50Mbps).
    cgWerks
  • Reply 127 of 140
    mike54mike54 Posts: 264member
    A laptop 15in or 17in laptop with price that's alot more approachable.
    A mac mini or headless mac.
    Mouse and trackpad support for iPad.
    Return to AA batteries in mouse and keyboard and trackpad.
    iCloud free storage of 10gb.
    Revamped iCloud on the web.
    Return to routers and make modem/routers.
    Return to monitors.
    Improved design of an iPhone SE X, plastic even.
    Return to Safari for Windows.

    I am at odds with Apple. Apple has no intention of doing any of this.
    GeorgeBMaccgWerks
  • Reply 128 of 140
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,499member

    Having trouble with forum software, posting images. Anyway, I have 8GB rMBP 10,1 OSX 10.10.5 as can be seen the mega power user I am, doing stuff like email & net surfing, lol...all I need is a 12" Macbook w 8GB ram? Uh huh, if you say so. I run about 25 tabs in each browser, it was opening 6 more tabs to research my post here, so just tech sites, no video hogs like cable network news...I often have similar problems when I just open a single tab of msnbc, foxnews, or that stinker of a RAM hog, cnn.com. I'm sure this would happen with Chrome or Safari. In fact I get similar problems where the system become unresponsive, basically stalls out on a HP 2009 i7 core laptop with 4GB RAM using Opera that also slows down after opening 10 or more tabs, and running it for days on end. Restarting is what is needed to free up the memory completely, but simply quiting and restarting the broswer is all that is needed...until a few hrs later, or the next day, when the browser memory leaks/holds on memory cause this problem,

    Hey Apple/Microsoft/PC world,,,hammer on the browsers to get them to work with the friggin Net, so I can still use it the way I used to back in a decade ago, before the net required 5G cellular & 1GB Fios connections ( only have 100Mbps cable now, Verizon 20-50Mbps).
    Read this and weep:

    https://twitter.com/fr3ino/status/1000708906434392064

    Back in the late 1990s I did web site design 0ver much slower connections than available today.  One of my major design goals was to get the main page of a site up in less than 10 seconds -- otherwise most users would just move on.

    It's not the browsers that are at fault -- it's the content!

    Big offenders are things like JavaScript and JSON -- why would any web developer want their code and download content to be human-readable -- at a very high performance penalty?

    For example, you an reduce most JSON packets by 50 % (size and bandwidth) or more by using an alternative format that can be packed or unpacked with a single command.

    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 129 of 140
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,408member
    The Upgrade podcast guys have a good list of things they want to see. I agree with all of them.

    https://www.relay.fm/upgrade/195

    I’d much rather see some of this stuff than a bunch of game demos showing off ARKit.
  • Reply 130 of 140
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,737member
    And we got.... a waste of 2 hours. :(
  • Reply 131 of 140
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    LOL...  How's that tunnel vision?   Hardware, hardware, hardware, hardware....  The whole world is hardware...
    Oh, look. No hardware. GET A CLUE. You don’t have an argument.
    cgWerks said:
    And we got.... a waste of 2 hours. :(
    I actually like some of the features both in iOS 12 and OS X 10.14. It looks like Apple is redesigning its desktop applications to look like iOS applications (note the big buttons in a big left sidebar), so I’d like them to redesign iTunes in the near future. And bring back the ability to resize artwork. And actually care about locally stored content (which is obviously not happening).
    edited June 4
  • Reply 132 of 140
    columbuscolumbus Posts: 281member
    columbus said:

    MacBook Pro

    What says no: There isn't a compelling engineering reason for Apple to do so today.

    I would have thought recent feature (Dell XPS 13 9370 vs. Apple's 13-inch MacBook Pro, the ultimate comparison) rather contradicts this point:
    This is huge step up in CPU performance-per-watt compared to previous quad-core designs, coming in slightly faster than a 2015 15-inch MacBook Pro and getting close to the current base model 15" MacBook Pro, while using less than half the wattage.


    The 8th gen CPUs do offer quite a boost in performance.
    That'a assuming they want to go i7 quad-core versus the dual-core in the 13-inch MBP to differentiate between it and the 15-inch. I'm not convinced they do, and that's the premise. We'll see.

    I agree with the basic concept, though. A quad-core eighth generation processor outperforms the dual-core seventh. What it does not do is outperform the quad-core seventh, and that's the point.
    Well done - you called it right I got it wrong. I guess we are waiting until at least September now for new MacBook models.
  • Reply 133 of 140
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 3,596administrator
    columbus said:
    columbus said:

    MacBook Pro

    What says no: There isn't a compelling engineering reason for Apple to do so today.

    I would have thought recent feature (Dell XPS 13 9370 vs. Apple's 13-inch MacBook Pro, the ultimate comparison) rather contradicts this point:
    This is huge step up in CPU performance-per-watt compared to previous quad-core designs, coming in slightly faster than a 2015 15-inch MacBook Pro and getting close to the current base model 15" MacBook Pro, while using less than half the wattage.


    The 8th gen CPUs do offer quite a boost in performance.
    That'a assuming they want to go i7 quad-core versus the dual-core in the 13-inch MBP to differentiate between it and the 15-inch. I'm not convinced they do, and that's the premise. We'll see.

    I agree with the basic concept, though. A quad-core eighth generation processor outperforms the dual-core seventh. What it does not do is outperform the quad-core seventh, and that's the point.
    Well done - you called it right I got it wrong. I guess we are waiting until at least September now for new MacBook models.
    I don't think it will be that long for the MacBook. Probably longer for the MBP.
  • Reply 134 of 140
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,737member
    cgWerks said:
    And we got.... a waste of 2 hours. :(
    I actually like some of the features both in iOS 12 and OS X 10.14. It looks like Apple is redesigning its desktop applications to look like iOS applications (note the big buttons in a big left sidebar), so I’d like them to redesign iTunes in the near future. And bring back the ability to resize artwork. And actually care about locally stored content (which is obviously not happening).
    I didn't see the macOS part yet... is it worth bothering? (Had to leave for a meeting.)

    Yeah, the multi-user FaceTime was kind of neat, and I like the focus on speed increase (though I'm more concerned about bugs, stability, UI, etc. than speed).

    But, I didn't see anything that said... hey, this will improve your life or productivity.

    Mike Wuerthele said:
    I don't think it will be that long for the MacBook. Probably longer for the MBP.
    The problem is, Apple didn't even leave us with a clue. I suppose they are now too embarrassed to even say anything?
  • Reply 135 of 140
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    cgWerks said:
    The problem is, Apple didn't even leave us with a clue. I suppose they are now too embarrassed to even say anything?
    If they’re actually going to make their own chips for Macs–whenever that actually happens–I can see them openly referencing the 2005 keynote and the Intel transition.
  • Reply 136 of 140
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,737member
    cgWerks said:
    The problem is, Apple didn't even leave us with a clue. I suppose they are now too embarrassed to even say anything?
    If they’re actually going to make their own chips for Macs–whenever that actually happens–I can see them openly referencing the 2005 keynote and the Intel transition.
    Yeah, if that is what they are doing, it's at least a year off and we'll hear about it next WWDC. In the mean time, they need to release some new hardware. So, either they aren't going to any time soon, or they'll quietly do it (which is what I meant by embarrassed).
  • Reply 137 of 140
    No hardware annoucements, everyone disappointed?

    Looks like predictions of i3 cannonlake in the refresed 12"MB were ...usual guesswork. Time to guess again.

    Wonder what AMD will announce tomorrow @Computex  https://hothardware.com/news/amd-teases-computex-unveil  "The big takeaway from that 3DMark run is that AMD's hardware was faster than Intel's Kaby Lake-G Vega Graphics chip reports WCCFTech. The processor is thought to be a Zen+ based APU with quad cores running eight threads with a 3.0GHz base clock."

    Between now and 2019, will the MB stagnate or be updated soon with.... Amber Lake Y-series...not that all day power you want...14nm process, not 10nm Cannonlake, same micro arch as b4.

    New screen saving paradigm form Intel? All day runtimes...not for me, my eyesight is not good, I want full screen brightness all the time in most environs.8hrs would be nice though....couldn't use Firefox as a 'poweruser' though, battery and SDD wouldn't last very long in that scenario ;)
  • Reply 138 of 140
    flydog said:
    Personally I have been really disappointed & depressed with the hardware in the MacBook Pro & the iMac for a long time. Plus I wished that Apple would be more serious about a Gaming PC. I love Apple’s MacOS, but in order to have a great Gaming PC I had to build a Windows Gaming Machine. Personally I hate using Windows, but that is the only way for me to play really great games with awesome graphics. Another thing is that I wish Apple would not be so obsessed with thinnest. Because of this we are limited in what hardware can be put into a iMac & in a MacBook Pro. I want to stay in the Apple ecosystem, but cannot do that if I want to play seriously great games. Another thing I would wish for is for Apple to ditch Intel. Intel has been awful to Apple treating them like they are crap & never producing any CPUs that is mind blowing. I would really like Apple since they already have a great relationship with AMD for graphics to use their CPUs or work with Apple to create a awesome CPU just for Apple Mac devices. I really believe that AMD is humble enough to be willing to go the extra miles for Apple to create great hardware if they can work out the problems with Thunderbolt 3 compatibility. For me the last 5 years I have not been impressed with the Mac hardware Apple has brought out. On the other hand I have been really impressed with the iPhones & iPads devices. Personally I think iOS still has much more room to grow & especially would like to see a refresh of the GUI to make me feel like I have really updated to a new iOS. In my humble opinion I feel that iOS GUI has been looking boring of late. Gets updated, but still feels like the same old iOS. So in the end I am not holding my breath or excited when it comes to the 2018 WWDC. I have been so disappointed year after year that I just don’t care as much as I use to. Especially after the release of the 2016 MacBook Pros. Which is sad because I really am a Apple fan & want them to be great with Mac devices along with their awesome iOS devices. If they can ditch Intel they will be better for it. Till then I will be hoping & waiting for the Mac lineups to improve dramatically. 
    You might find this video on the use of paragraphs useful: 

    Thanks for the tip. To be honest I was not thinking about paragraphing when I was typing this. You are right & i knew this, but think I was being lazy about it. Thanks again. 
  • Reply 139 of 140
    Personally I have been really disappointed & depressed with the hardware in the MacBook Pro & the iMac for a long time. Plus I wished that Apple would be more serious about a Gaming PC. I love Apple’s MacOS, but in order to have a great Gaming PC I had to build a Windows Gaming Machine. Personally I hate using Windows, but that is the only way for me to play really great games with awesome graphics. Another thing is that I wish Apple would not be so obsessed with thinnest. Because of this we are limited in what hardware can be put into a iMac & in a MacBook Pro. I want to stay in the Apple ecosystem, but cannot do that if I want to play seriously great games. Another thing I would wish for is for Apple to ditch Intel. Intel has been awful to Apple treating them like they are crap & never producing any CPUs that is mind blowing. I would really like Apple since they already have a great relationship with AMD for graphics to use their CPUs or work with Apple to create a awesome CPU just for Apple Mac devices. I really believe that AMD is humble enough to be willing to go the extra miles for Apple to create great hardware if they can work out the problems with Thunderbolt 3 compatibility. For me the last 5 years I have not been impressed with the Mac hardware Apple has brought out. On the other hand I have been really impressed with the iPhones & iPads devices. Personally I think iOS still has much more room to grow & especially would like to see a refresh of the GUI to make me feel like I have really updated to a new iOS. In my humble opinion I feel that iOS GUI has been looking boring of late. Gets updated, but still feels like the same old iOS. So in the end I am not holding my breath or excited when it comes to the 2018 WWDC. I have been so disappointed year after year that I just don’t care as much as I use to. Especially after the release of the 2016 MacBook Pros. Which is sad because I really am a Apple fan & want them to be great with Mac devices along with their awesome iOS devices. If they can ditch Intel they will be better for it. Till then I will be hoping & waiting for the Mac lineups to improve dramatically. 
    I wonder if there might be, in Apple’s DNA, an aversion to dedicated gaming machines.  Contemporary Apple seems to want users to be out in the world experiencing life, getting exercise and all that.  Macs are for artistic professionals, and for developing iOS software in that view of the world.  I could be mistaken.  
    You are right. I may be to focus on the gaming aspect that I was not seeing the whole picture. 
    Apple is about experiencing life not staying held up in a room playing games on a computer. Not that computer gaming is everything, but wish they would put a little more effort in gaming because it would make Apple more competitive against Windows PCs. Inturn making Apple Macs more popular overall. Just my humble opinion. Does not mean I am right or wrong. Thanks for the insight. 
  • Reply 140 of 140
    lkrupp said:
    Personally I have been really disappointed & depressed with the hardware in the MacBook Pro & the iMac for a long time. Plus I wished that Apple would be more serious about a Gaming PC. I love Apple’s MacOS, but in order to have a great Gaming PC I had to build a Windows Gaming Machine. Personally I hate using Windows, but that is the only way for me to play really great games with awesome graphics. Another thing is that I wish Apple would not be so obsessed with thinnest. Because of this we are limited in what hardware can be put into a iMac & in a MacBook Pro. I want to stay in the Apple ecosystem, but cannot do that if I want to play seriously great games. Another thing I would wish for is for Apple to ditch Intel. Intel has been awful to Apple treating them like they are crap & never producing any CPUs that is mind blowing. I would really like Apple since they already have a great relationship with AMD for graphics to use their CPUs or work with Apple to create a awesome CPU just for Apple Mac devices. I really believe that AMD is humble enough to be willing to go the extra miles for Apple to create great hardware if they can work out the problems with Thunderbolt 3 compatibility. For me the last 5 years I have not been impressed with the Mac hardware Apple has brought out. On the other hand I have been really impressed with the iPhones & iPads devices. Personally I think iOS still has much more room to grow & especially would like to see a refresh of the GUI to make me feel like I have really updated to a new iOS. In my humble opinion I feel that iOS GUI has been looking boring of late. Gets updated, but still feels like the same old iOS. So in the end I am not holding my breath or excited when it comes to the 2018 WWDC. I have been so disappointed year after year that I just don’t care as much as I use to. Especially after the release of the 2016 MacBook Pros. Which is sad because I really am a Apple fan & want them to be great with Mac devices along with their awesome iOS devices. If they can ditch Intel they will be better for it. Till then I will be hoping & waiting for the Mac lineups to improve dramatically. 
    My sincere advice is to leave the Apple ecosystem. If you think for one millisecond Apple is going to produce a Gaming PC you are living in another universe. No, really, you are. And then you proceed to trash everything else about Apple except for macOS. You say you’re impressed with iPhones and iPads but then say iOS is boring. After years of “disappointment” and “depression” you are way past leaving the platform. Go. Leave. Be happy. Apple most assuredly does not care about your user demographic. Serious PC gamers wouldn’t touch a Mac with a ten foot pole. Go to a Frys or MicroCenter, buy a bunch of parts off the shelves and put together your dream gaming machine and be done with it. Seriously. You don’t belong here and probably will not respond either.
    Sorry that you took my view point in such a way that you felt I think so bad of Apple. Apparently I did not explain my humble opinions well enough. I was trying to say was that if Apple focus a little more on the gaming side it could possibly be more competitive to a Windows PC. I know Apple does not really care about the gamers demographic. Doesn’t mean I thought it was the right or wrong way to go. Was just me dreaming is all. 

    Another thing you brought out is that you feel I was trashing everything Apple. I love Apple, but I feel their absession to thinnest is going to extreme on MacBook Pro. In my humble opinion the 2015 15” MacBook Pro was the perfect thickness while providing many port & room to to grow technologically inside it’s chassis while keeping everything cooled for future tech. 

    You said I think the iOS is boring. Not true. I said “I think iOS still has much more room to grow & especially would like to see a refresh of the GUI ( Graphical Users Interface) to make me feel like I have really updated to a new iOS. In my humble opinion I feel that iOS GUI has been looking boring of late. Gets updated, but still feels like the same old iOS”. I was talking about the appearance of the iOS like the icon menu & such. The actual look of the iOS. The iOS itself works nicely, just like it to have a refreshing new look is all. 

    I respect your opinion & your have a right to say what you feel, but you could have been nicer about it. I try very hard to be humble & respectfull when I express my opinions. My opinions are just that opinions. Does not mean I am right or wrong. Just expressing how I feel on the matter in a respectful way. I like your feedback & opinions as well, but let’s be civil about it. Again thanks you for your insight on the matter. 
Sign In or Register to comment.