If Apple are going to release a Mini Pro, I hope they use the opportunity to update the rest of the Mini range to 2018 spec. It’s incredible to me that Apple still produces new Minis with obsolete 4 year old tech and still charges what they do for them! Is anybody still purchasing these antiques?
I get the part where Apple feels it needs 6 years to upgrade Mac models to give us the most awesome next-generation Mac. What I don’t get is how they assume people are willing to pay full price for technology that is 6 years old!! Is it so ridiculous to expect a price drop after every two years or so? I am sure those processors and RAM don’t cost as much today as they did 6 years ago
So is this going to be a Mac Mini Pro? And is there something that will actually make it “pro” or is it just a way for Apple to raise the price? Customers will be pissed if the only new Mac Mini is one that’s more expensive.
I think Bloomberg is just confused. It doesn't need to be a "Pro" to be more expensive — the mere fact that it'll have modern components justifies a price bump.
"app developers, those running home media centers, and server farm managers" has been most of the Mini's consumers for years, that's nothing new.
My only hope is that somewhere in the UFO is one guy whose only job is to keep updating this new Mini whenever Intel has a new CPU architecture to hawk. He can spend the rest of his time sewing Macbook Pro leather sleeves or whatever.
Pro is just a marketing term to mean the more powerful end of the lineup. I would like to see a 'Mac' with something like the 9900K and maybe an RX580 with RAM in a trashcan or equivalent.
When you actually see the new mini, just remember Apple never said it was going to be a Mac Mini Pro. That’s just something users made up, based on a rumor that had no real meat.
Don't be surprised to see an 8GB/SSD/28W CPU mini that’s starts at $799, instead of a 4GB/HDD/15W CPU mini that starts at $499. RAM will be DDR4, socketed and upgradable to 32GB.
There will be plenty of ports: two USB-C Thunderbolt 3/USB 3.1 Gen 2 ports, four USB 3.0 ports, Ethernet, a headphone jack and possibly an SDXC slot. Maybe USB-PD external power.
The overall platform will have the 28W quads from the 2018 MBP, likely with a dual-core for the entry level model. I don’t think there will be a 45W CPU/dGPU mini; I just don’t think there’s enough volume to support a second platform (based on the 15” MBP).
Thunderbolt 3 has PD power as a part of the spec. I'm also betting it has no USB 3 ports, no SD card slot, no headphone jack, no display port and no HDMI. It will not be geared towards consumers, in fact, they will discourage it in every way. This will be a box for developers, server farms and pros who are willing to pay for the privilege of having an upgradable machine, if that's what it turns out to be.
Yes, possibly power delivery via the USB-C connector (which will be a TB3 port like MBP, not just a USB 3.1 port like the rMB). If so then no internal power supply. No reason to delete all the older ports; they’re still on iMac. There’s no space restrictions like laptops. Not sure where you’re getting the idea the new mini will be upgradable, though I do expect socketed RAM.
There’s also no reason to discourage consumer use, in fact the rumor mentions their intended application as a home media center. If you read the source, it’s clear that it’s storage options and CPUs that are making them more expensive. So no HDD or Fusion drives, and no dual core CPUs (except for the least expensive entry level SKU, most likely).
That’s my interpretation, anyway.
All of the new MacBook Pros are powered over Thunderbolt/USB-C. That power can come from the supplied adapter or it can come from ANYTHING that can supply that much power, such as, a monitor, hub or hard drive with it's own power supply. Up to 100W.
The only reason I comment on PD power is because you said, "Maybe USB-PD external power." My point is that PD power is part of the Thunderbolt spec and will probably be available by default.
There is a reason to delete older ports, to move people forward, just as the original iMac pulled the entire PC in to the era of USB.
"Not sure where you’re getting the idea the new mini will be upgradable, though I do expect socketed RAM." Contradiction.
"There’s also no reason to discourage consumer use, in fact the rumor mentions their intended application as a home media centre " AppleTV took that home media centre role and the Mac Mini decreases Apple's profits because it doesn't not include a monitor sale, as it does with the iMac. A headless Mac is less profitable.
So is this going to be a Mac Mini Pro? And is there something that will actually make it “pro” or is it just a way for Apple to raise the price? Customers will be pissed if the only new Mac Mini is one that’s more expensive.
I think Bloomberg is just confused. It doesn't need to be a "Pro" to be more expensive — the mere fact that it'll have modern components justifies a price bump.
"app developers, those running home media centers, and server farm managers" has been most of the Mini's consumers for years, that's nothing new.
My only hope is that somewhere in the UFO is one guy whose only job is to keep updating this new Mini whenever Intel has a new CPU architecture to hawk. He can spend the rest of his time sewing Macbook Pro leather sleeves or whatever.
Pro is just a marketing term to mean the more powerful end of the lineup. I would like to see a 'Mac' with something like the 9900K and maybe an RX580 with RAM in a trashcan or equivalent.
When you actually see the new mini, just remember Apple never said it was going to be a Mac Mini Pro. That’s just something users made up, based on a rumor that had no real meat.
Don't be surprised to see an 8GB/SSD/28W CPU mini that’s starts at $799, instead of a 4GB/HDD/15W CPU mini that starts at $499. RAM will be DDR4, socketed and upgradable to 32GB.
There will be plenty of ports: two USB-C Thunderbolt 3/USB 3.1 Gen 2 ports, four USB 3.0 ports, Ethernet, a headphone jack and possibly an SDXC slot. Maybe USB-PD external power.
The overall platform will have the 28W quads from the 2018 MBP, likely with a dual-core for the entry level model. I don’t think there will be a 45W CPU/dGPU mini; I just don’t think there’s enough volume to support a second platform (based on the 15” MBP).
Thunderbolt 3 has PD power as a part of the spec. I'm also betting it has no USB 3 ports, no SD card slot, no headphone jack, no display port and no HDMI. It will not be geared towards consumers, in fact, they will discourage it in every way. This will be a box for developers, server farms and pros who are willing to pay for the privilege of having an upgradable machine, if that's what it turns out to be.
Yes, power delivery via the USB-C connector. So no internal power supply. No reason to delete all the older ports; they’re still on iMac. There’s no space restrictions like laptops. Not sure where you’re getting the idea the new mini will be upgradable, though I do expect socketed RAM.
There’s also no reason to discourage consumer use, in fact the rumor mentions their intended application as a home media center. If you read the source, it’s clear that it’s storage options and CPUs that are making them more expensive. So no HDD or Fusion drives, and no dual core CPUs (except for the least expensive entry level SKU, most likely).
Thats my interpretation, anyway.
If they do a 'pro' Mac Mini -- then I doubt they will use USB-C power delivery. Remember that the 87 watts TDP Mac Pro power supply (as mentioned by Mike) (which could be that i9 laptop processor) can draw more than the power supply provides and get supplemented by the battery during peak usage (the i9 laptop for gamers can have upward of 150-watt power supplies). Also, the 87-watt power supplies currently used by Apple can easily be dislodged from the wall plug, which is ok for a laptop. So restricting the non-battery Mac Mini to 100 watts would limit the processing power needlessly.
The older Mac Minis though had a larger brick (just to make the Mac Mini seem smaller than they could be), but that larger brick is a horrible design... the Mac Mini is better served with an integrated power supply.
To me, the power supply is probably the least interesting aspect of what a new mini will bring. In any case, since I expect a Mac mini consistent with the Bloomberg rumor—i.e. upgraded storage and CPUs—the power requirements could be met using the new technology designed for this purpose. Gaming laptops with power hungry dGPUs aren’t really relevant to the mini.
That said, Apple may very well choose to keep a larger enclosure with the internal power supply like the current mini. It’s probably more likely than not.
Oh please please Apple, give us a Pro-focused Mac mini with standard user-replaceable m.2 SSD and SO-DIMM DDR4. Having integrated non-upgradable SSD and RAM is ridiculous in anything but the thinnest ultrabook form factor.
Ryzen CPU + Vega GPU would be great, or the Intel i7-8809G (Vega graphics).
Form factor similar to the latest Airport Extreme Internals configurable for more RAM and bigger Drives (SSD or Fusion options too) No user replaceable parts.
Base model with 2.3Ghz Dual core i5 8GB RAM and a spinning 1TB--$599 Upgrade model with a 2.3Ghz Quad core i5 8GB RAM and a spinning 1TB--$799 Top model with a 3Ghz Quad core i5 8 GB and a 1TB Fusion--$1099
What would be outstanding would be a fusion drive in the upgrade model and the top of the line coming in at $999, but I don't think either of those options would happen (the $999 price for the top model might be slightly more likely especially if the processor were only a 2.6-2.8 Ghz). A return to user replaceable drives and RAM would be great, but also unlikely.
We use minis as nodes for our render farm, so a more capable model with a Xeon processor or equivalent and a proper GPU would be worthy of consideration (look at the specs of the iMac Pro and then imagine a derivative of that system board in a headless chassis).
Oh please please Apple, give us a Pro-focused Mac mini with standard user-replaceable m.2 SSD and SO-DIMM DDR4. Having integrated non-upgradable SSD and RAM is ridiculous in anything but the thinnest ultrabook form factor.
Ryzen CPU + Vega GPU would be great, or the Intel i7-8809G (Vega graphics).
But since Apple hasn't showed any care at all for users wanting a machine without screen since 2014 I'm not holding my breath. =(
The fastest Mac mini is still the 2012 model (quad core, while the 2014 model is dual core only as you all know).
Love the Shuttle XPC slim DH310. Especially the very low price, access and flexibility. Add a couple of TB3 ports and wrap the outside in cheese grater design and you have heaven. Make a number of versions for different user markets (servers, developers, "thrifty" consumers). I think people could handle it without being confused. Can't the world's biggest company make a basic, useful machine? Do they all have to be so sleek, minimalist and revolutionary that they never get released?
"and will make it more expensive than the versions currently available for sale."
There goes the 500 dollar entry into macOS it seems, I guess enough people are onboarded though. I'm interested.
12 years ago, $500 was a decent entry point into the macOS ecosystem for PC users, who have existing monitors and input devices.
Today, most users own laptops. If the rumor of a cheaper laptop than the current MBA at $1000 is true, then maybe that is Apple’s cheap entry into the macOS ecosystem.
If Gurman’s article is right, Apple is designing this new “Mac mini” for developers, media streamers and server farms. This will be an interesting box of true.
So is this going to be a Mac Mini Pro? And is there something that will actually make it “pro” or is it just a way for Apple to raise the price? Customers will be pissed if the only new Mac Mini is one that’s more expensive.
Here we go again. First you complain about it being too old, too low-spec’d...now with new hardware you’ll complain that it’s too expensive. Classic.
So releasing a new model with updated specs means they need to increase the price?
- if the new hardware required a redesign; meaning
- new custom components - new manufacturing lines and tooling for components and casing - new packaging design and production - higher spec (costlier) base components
along with:
- new product sales and marketing costs - training and support at all levels of retail and call centers - service parts inventory - etc.
Umm, yes, I think it would and should cost more if a company looks to recoup its initial development costs, which is in the calculus of product pricing.
Space for both a SSD and a backup HD, easily user replaceable/up-gradable
Expandable memory by user
More than 1 USB/Thunderbolt 3 port
plus 1 USB 3.0 type A on front for charging/syncing/transferring without having to reach around to the back or buy a hub
Compact, but not small & thin just to be small & thin, It's a desktop computer !
Just a user up-gradable, stylish, basic computer that runs Mac OS. Can't a Trillion $ company sell just one model like this?
1. Yes, which includes the option for getting the same Intel Core i7 the 13" MacBook Pro with Touch Bar can get. 2. How about an m.2 NVMe SSD (or soldered-on SSD) and a 2.5" SSD, or have 2 m.2 NVMe SSD, user replaceable, instead of a 2.5" SSD? 3. Yes. 4. Replace the two MiniDisplay ports with two Thunderbolt 3, USB-C ports. Also, update the HDMI port to 2.1, the current version. 5. It would be nice but I do not see them doing this. 6. The current size is fine with me.
At last. I need to have RAM and disk upgradable and minimum 4 cores. Otherwise shove it Apple (newest Ubuntu works quite well on old 4-core Mac Mini Server with 16GB RAM and two 1T disks). Seriously, not everybody wants Mac Pro and not everybody wants mobile for every use. Some still need medium power small format PC that can connect to many devices and can use modern, large, external multi-display configurations (not just one). Even old Mac Mini supported that (1080 only), but we live in 4K multidisplay era and fast networking. If one needs more processing power for crazy apps then MacPro is choice or buy eGPU unit.
I suppose the main go-to distinction for the Mac Mini could be “bring your own monitor(s)” (BYOM) at which point Apple could repackage most of the internals from the iMac 21” into an aesthetically pleasing chassis. Once you get rid of the screen from the iMac the remaining volume is not significant, especially with all solid state internal storage.
To understand the point about “confusion” in Apple’s portfolio you have to think about the challenge an Apple Store employee is faced with when a prospective customer walks into the store looking for a new Mac of som escort for themselves or a child, relative, etc. First of all, it isn’t Best Buy so their is an expectation that the salesperson is knowledgeable about the product, and it isn’t Micro Center where the customer is on their 7th PC build, so there’s an expectation that the customer is going to be guided towards the right product that fits their needs first, and ultimately their budget. In between those end posts are many things from aesthetics to form factor preferences to specific features to limitations of the environment in which the Mac will be used to limitations associated with the end user.
All of this is very hard for many of us in the AI community to understand because we walk into an Apple Store (or browse to Apple’s online store) knowing pretty much exactly what we want. We don’t need much if any help buying a new Mac, other than figuring out how to pay for it. We know what all the specs mean and what they imply about how we intend to use the Mac. When regular people walk into an Apple Store they are bound to be confused to some degree and the Apple Store employees must remove that confusion by asking the right questions to guide them towards a good solution for the specific customer. Every product in Apple’s portfolio has to have a go-to attribute that makes it a candidate for a specific customer’s need. For the Mac Mini, as opposed to the iMac, the BYOM is a huge go-to attribute that can potentially make the Mini a great solution for a specific customer, regardless of price or the user’s level of experience. A Mac Mini with TB3, a decent CPU and SSD, and an eGPU could be configured to support some professional needs quite well while the base unit is still more than adequate for entry level switchers or home theatre use cases.
I suppose the main go-to distinction for the Mac Mini could be “bring your own monitor(s)” (BYOM) at which point Apple could repackage most of the internals from the iMac 21” into an aesthetically pleasing chassis. Once you get rid of the screen from the iMac the remaining volume is not significant, especially with all solid state internal storage.
To understand the point about “confusion” in Apple’s portfolio you have to think about the challenge an Apple Store employee is faced with when a prospective customer walks into the store looking for a new Mac of som escort for themselves or a child, relative, etc. First of all, it isn’t Best Buy so their is an expectation that the salesperson is knowledgeable about the product, and it isn’t Micro Center where the customer is on their 7th PC build, so there’s an expectation that the customer is going to be guided towards the right product that fits their needs first, and ultimately their budget. In between those end posts are many things from aesthetics to form factor preferences to specific features to limitations of the environment in which the Mac will be used to limitations associated with the end user.
All of this is very hard for many of us in the AI community to understand because we walk into an Apple Store (or browse to Apple’s online store) knowing pretty much exactly what we want. We don’t need much if any help buying a new Mac, other than figuring out how to pay for it. We know what all the specs mean and what they imply about how we intend to use the Mac. When regular people walk into an Apple Store they are bound to be confused to some degree and the Apple Store employees must remove that confusion by asking the right questions to guide them towards a good solution for the specific customer. Every product in Apple’s portfolio has to have a go-to attribute that makes it a candidate for a specific customer’s need. For the Mac Mini, as opposed to the iMac, the BYOM is a huge go-to attribute that can potentially make the Mini a great solution for a specific customer, regardless of price or the user’s level of experience. A Mac Mini with TB3, a decent CPU and SSD, and an eGPU could be configured to support some professional needs quite well while the base unit is still more than adequate for entry level switchers or home theatre use cases.
There really would be no confusion possible. If a newbie walks into the store - they will be directed to the most simple configuration option - either an iMac if they want a desktop or a laptop if they want a portable. The ones directed to the Mac Mini will be the ones that know what they want is a Mac Mini -- they won't need direction they will be directing the employee. It might have originally been a switcher machine (though the only ones really going in that direction were likely someone looking to do some simple development or dabbling with XCode)... but that market is mature. Home Theatre use cases are not really it's focus, it is the hackers that might do that with it -- and again those that are them will be the ones directing the staff.
With any luck we will see a Mini that can be BTO with discrete graphics, Quad Core CPUs- maybe even mobile Xeons like the H-P Z2 mini. That product scales from i3 to Xeon all in the same chassis.
If Apple does it right I'll be buying a couple on launch day.
Comments
The only reason I comment on PD power is because you said, "Maybe USB-PD external power." My point is that PD power is part of the Thunderbolt spec and will probably be available by default.
There is a reason to delete older ports, to move people forward, just as the original iMac pulled the entire PC in to the era of USB.
"Not sure where you’re getting the idea the new mini will be upgradable, though I do expect socketed RAM." Contradiction.
"There’s also no reason to discourage consumer use, in fact the rumor mentions their intended application as a home media centre " AppleTV took that home media centre role and the Mac Mini decreases Apple's profits because it doesn't not include a monitor sale, as it does with the iMac. A headless Mac is less profitable.
That said, Apple may very well choose to keep a larger enclosure with the internal power supply like the current mini. It’s probably more likely than not.
Form factor similar to the latest Airport Extreme
Internals configurable for more RAM and bigger Drives (SSD or Fusion options too)
No user replaceable parts.
Base model with 2.3Ghz Dual core i5 8GB RAM and a spinning 1TB--$599
Upgrade model with a 2.3Ghz Quad core i5 8GB RAM and a spinning 1TB--$799
Top model with a 3Ghz Quad core i5 8 GB and a 1TB Fusion--$1099
What would be outstanding would be a fusion drive in the upgrade model and the top of the line coming in at $999, but I don't think either of those options would happen (the $999 price for the top model might be slightly more likely especially if the processor were only a 2.6-2.8 Ghz). A return to user replaceable drives and RAM would be great, but also unlikely.
There goes the 500 dollar entry into macOS it seems, I guess enough people are onboarded though. I'm interested.
Today, most users own laptops. If the rumor of a cheaper laptop than the current MBA at $1000 is true, then maybe that is Apple’s cheap entry into the macOS ecosystem.
If Gurman’s article is right, Apple is designing this new “Mac mini” for developers, media streamers and server farms. This will be an interesting box of true.
- if the new hardware required a redesign; meaning
- engineering
- prototyping
- testing
- rinse, lather and repeat
which likely includes:
- new manufacturing lines and tooling for components and casing
- new packaging design and production
- higher spec (costlier) base components
along with:
- training and support at all levels of retail and call centers
- service parts inventory
- etc.
Umm, yes, I think it would and should cost more if a company looks to recoup its initial development costs, which is in the calculus of product pricing.
2. How about an m.2 NVMe SSD (or soldered-on SSD) and a 2.5" SSD, or have 2 m.2 NVMe SSD, user replaceable, instead of a 2.5" SSD?
3. Yes.
4. Replace the two MiniDisplay ports with two Thunderbolt 3, USB-C ports. Also, update the HDMI port to 2.1, the current version.
5. It would be nice but I do not see them doing this.
6. The current size is fine with me.
To understand the point about “confusion” in Apple’s portfolio you have to think about the challenge an Apple Store employee is faced with when a prospective customer walks into the store looking for a new Mac of som escort for themselves or a child, relative, etc. First of all, it isn’t Best Buy so their is an expectation that the salesperson is knowledgeable about the product, and it isn’t Micro Center where the customer is on their 7th PC build, so there’s an expectation that the customer is going to be guided towards the right product that fits their needs first, and ultimately their budget. In between those end posts are many things from aesthetics to form factor preferences to specific features to limitations of the environment in which the Mac will be used to limitations associated with the end user.
All of this is very hard for many of us in the AI community to understand because we walk into an Apple Store (or browse to Apple’s online store) knowing pretty much exactly what we want. We don’t need much if any help buying a new Mac, other than figuring out how to pay for it. We know what all the specs mean and what they imply about how we intend to use the Mac. When regular people walk into an Apple Store they are bound to be confused to some degree and the Apple Store employees must remove that confusion by asking the right questions to guide them towards a good solution for the specific customer. Every product in Apple’s portfolio has to have a go-to attribute that makes it a candidate for a specific customer’s need. For the Mac Mini, as opposed to the iMac, the BYOM is a huge go-to attribute that can potentially make the Mini a great solution for a specific customer, regardless of price or the user’s level of experience. A Mac Mini with TB3, a decent CPU and SSD, and an eGPU could be configured to support some professional needs quite well while the base unit is still more than adequate for entry level switchers or home theatre use cases.
With any luck we will see a Mini that can be BTO with discrete graphics, Quad Core CPUs- maybe even mobile Xeons like the H-P Z2 mini. That product scales from i3 to Xeon all in the same chassis.
If Apple does it right I'll be buying a couple on launch day.