I'm wondering if that wasn't just to head off the massive criticism and 'test the waters' a bit on the laptops first. Since they could include them on the laptops, especially the 15", I'm guessing there is more than space constraints involved. Like the headphone jack, they will probably start removing them from any product they think they can get away with. It is an ideological issue, not a practical or even necessarily marketing one. (As John Siracusa said on a recent ATP episode... what person, given the choice between a MBP with only USB-C, or one with USB-C and USB-A wouldn't pick the latter?)
If confronted with a laptop with 4 USB-C / Thunderbolt ports and one that has a mix of one (in most cases this is the max competitors have) or two USB-C ports (half the external bandwidth) with some USB-A ports... I would always choose the future, and always chose the first one. I can always order quality cables (USB-C to Micro USB, etc) to replace current cables and I have no problem with a dongle for a legacy hard-wired device - because it is on borrowed time... Future proofing rather than looking back.
Exactly. I am on my 7th year with my current MBP and can't wait to get into a fully-loaded 15" i9 this year and ditch all my legacy enclosures and cables. So-called "pros" clinging to crappy legacy 5Gbps ports and their connectors over 40Gbps do-everything ports cracks me up.
I'm wondering if that wasn't just to head off the massive criticism and 'test the waters' a bit on the laptops first. Since they could include them on the laptops, especially the 15", I'm guessing there is more than space constraints involved. Like the headphone jack, they will probably start removing them from any product they think they can get away with. It is an ideological issue, not a practical or even necessarily marketing one. (As John Siracusa said on a recent ATP episode... what person, given the choice between a MBP with only USB-C, or one with USB-C and USB-A wouldn't pick the latter?)
If confronted with a laptop with 4 USB-C / Thunderbolt ports and one that has a mix of one (in most cases this is the max competitors have) or two USB-C ports (half the external bandwidth) with some USB-A ports... I would always choose the future, and always chose the first one. I can always order quality cables (USB-C to Micro USB, etc) to replace current cables and I have no problem with a dongle for a legacy hard-wired device - because it is on borrowed time... Future proofing rather than looking back.
Yeah, that's one of the things I never got about the "Oh noes! Apple wants us to buy their dongles!" crowd. It's not just that any of the ports can be repurposed to whatever ports they want, it's also that how long do they expect to hang on to some of this gear? Hence all the gags about RS-232 ports and vampire taps. In most instances, you're going to have to update all your peripherals anyway. You can put that off for a while using a dongle. You only have to carry the dongles with you if you take all these peripherals with you all the time.
Yes, OK, video connectors for presentations are a thing, but they were before. My previous MacBook had one video-out that was a proprietary mini-VGA plug. So I didn't even get good connectivity out of that, and if I wanted to connect it to someone else's setup (or even a monitor in my own home) I had to carry an adapter. (Yes, it was old. I hung on to it long past its use-by date.) Even if you had a MacBook Air with a Mini-Display Port socket, you probably had to carry a full-size Display Port or HDMI adapter to connect.
So, yeah, I'm another one who, when offered a choice between all USB-C/TB3 or some USB-C and USB-A and single use ports, will go for the former. Four ports I can do pretty much anything with, or a bunch of ports that can do one or two things? Not a contest in my mind.
This is good news about the Mac Mini range. I do wonder if alongside their pro-oriented Mac Mini's, if they'll have some lower-cost standard configurations, akin to what we had in 2014. I hope so, but I hope it's a success either way.
bkkcanuck said: If confronted with a laptop with 4 USB-C / Thunderbolt ports and one that has a mix of one (in most cases this is the max competitors have) or two USB-C ports (half the external bandwidth) with some USB-A ports... I would always choose the future, and always chose the first one. I can always order quality cables (USB-C to Micro USB, etc) to replace current cables and I have no problem with a dongle for a legacy hard-wired device - because it is on borrowed time... Future proofing rather than looking back.
I'm sure that will be the case one-day... but when? You should listen to the rest of that podcast I referenced, as they talk about difficulties of making devices work together, or failing to work right, or outright failing. The problem is that if you need a particular external port, you're depending on the quality of the particular dock/dongle. And, if you're out and about and need to plug something in, then you have to have your bag with you with appropriate adapters.
Once it is commonplace to run into USB-C devices in the wild (I've yet to see one), then sure. And, once people start making USB-C hubs, so you can plug multiple USB-C devices into one of your USB-C ports, or thing like that, it will get better too. And/or, once the standard settles and some good manufacturers step up and make good equipment.... that said, history doesn't smile too well on external ports being as good as internal ones.
And, I'm not sure why it would be 1 USB-C and the rest USB-A (or other ports). On the 15", they could put 4 USB-C and a USB-A, maybe an SD, etc. On smaller devices, maybe 2 USB-C and a couple other ports.
I'm all for buying for the future, but if that future is 5 or 10 years off, I'd rather not be the one inconvenienced to pretend I'm in that future.
cgWerks said: (As John Siracusa said on a recent ATP episode... what person, given the choice between a MBP with only USB-C, or one with USB-C and USB-A wouldn't pick the latter?)
Me, for one.
You'd rather not have a USB-A port or SD port available?
fastasleep said: Again, why would a CEO say "not time to share any details" and "we do plan for" and "going forward" and NOT mean that they're going to release a new one? He wouldn't have bothered to respond to the email at all if it were going to be discontinued, let alone use future-looking statements. It boggles the mind that there's any doubt here as to what Cook means.
Context and timing is important here. It isn't out of the question for a CEO (or company spokesperson) to give a carefully worded reply to something like that that doesn't necessarily indicate either way. If Apple never updates the mini, that statement is still true, depending on the time-scale for the Mac overall. It now looks like Apple has a future for the Mac, but that wasn't so certain when that was said.
fastasleep said: Exactly. I am on my 7th year with my current MBP and can't wait to get into a fully-loaded 15" i9 this year and ditch all my legacy enclosures and cables. So-called "pros" clinging to crappy legacy 5Gbps ports and their connectors over 40Gbps do-everything ports cracks me up.
Some 'pros' actually use their laptops while on the road and out and about and stuff like that. Sure, if you're using it as a desktop replacement where you can cable everything up on your desk and buy just the right components, etc. it would be OK (so long as you can find stable adapters for stuff like Ethernet).
If you're at a client site, for example, what is more important is to get the files off their thumb-drive, not that it happens a bit faster. Or, maybe that you can get a good connection into the server rack with the Ethernet cable hanging out for access. Or, that you can pull the SD card out of the camera and get the video off. If you regularly do those kind of things while on the road, adapter, hubs, etc are just a pain and things to lose.
They don't do everything if you don't have the right adapter... they do nothing.
anome said: Yes, OK, video connectors for presentations are a thing, but they were before. My previous MacBook had one video-out that was a proprietary mini-VGA plug. So I didn't even get good connectivity out of that, and if I wanted to connect it to someone else's setup (or even a monitor in my own home) I had to carry an adapter. (Yes, it was old. I hung on to it long past its use-by date.) Even if you had a MacBook Air with a Mini-Display Port socket, you probably had to carry a full-size Display Port or HDMI adapter to connect.
Yeah, that is a fair point that we were already part way there (i.e.: Ethernet, displays) in most cases. That sucks, but at least for those cases, the argument can be made that they might not easily fit into the small designs. But, a USB-A or SD isn't really the same. And, like it or not, USB-A is going to be the standard for at least a few years yet (as far as I can see).
As I said previously... when I start seeing them in the wild, I'll know the time is starting to come. Currently, USB-C is kind of like FireWire 800 in the late 90s (i.e.: great if you bought all the FW 800 stuff).
I do wonder if alongside their pro-oriented Mac Mini's, if they'll have some lower-cost standard configurations, akin to what we had in 2014.
That's a good question. If I'm reading the tea-leaves correctly, Macs are drifting towards 'pros' while Apple would say those people should get iPads. Or, maybe the lower end will be A-series driven, which might mean some new device (cf. all the speculation over the last year).
I'm REALLY happy to hear this (and hopefully it is true), that the mini is going more pro and less consumer. But, that's kind of selfish on my part.
What displays will they be expecting people to connect this new Mini to?
Apple is expected to release new monitors. I had assumed they would do both Mac Mini / Mac Pro release at the same time as the monitors... now I am not sure.
Maybe they will introduce the Mac Mini first with the monitors, or maybe the monitors will be released with the Mac Pro -- who knows.
If it is later -- obviously the expect people to order the LG monitors in the meantime.
Earlier this year, Apple went on record saying that the next Mac Pro and their new line of Pro monitors will be coming out in 2019. When in 2019, who knows.
cgWerks said: (As John Siracusa said on a recent ATP episode... what person, given the choice between a MBP with only USB-C, or one with USB-C and USB-A wouldn't pick the latter?)
Me, for one.
You'd rather not have a USB-A port or SD port available?
Yes. It's time to move forward, and I'd rather rip the bandaid off. I don't *need* any of those things and the longer we cling to them the longer they'll be around. I can use a USB-C cable direct to my camera or whatever else USB device, or an SD card reader. It's fine.
fastasleep said: Again, why would a CEO say "not time to share any details" and "we do plan for" and "going forward" and NOT mean that they're going to release a new one? He wouldn't have bothered to respond to the email at all if it were going to be discontinued, let alone use future-looking statements. It boggles the mind that there's any doubt here as to what Cook means.
Context and timing is important here. It isn't out of the question for a CEO (or company spokesperson) to give a carefully worded reply to something like that that doesn't necessarily indicate either way. If Apple never updates the mini, that statement is still true, depending on the time-scale for the Mac overall. It now looks like Apple has a future for the Mac, but that wasn't so certain when that was said.
That makes no sense to me. The context and timing is that they are pivoting back to focus on the Mac after a significant lull, as has been clearly outlined up to that point with their talk about the Pro/Displays and MBP and everything else. Cook was pretty clear they were working on something. Schiller was pretty clear that they didn't bring it up before when they had all the Pro-related discussions because the mini was more of a mix of consumer and pro as he put it. Ie., it's not dead. They don't signal like that unless they mean to. They know how that could be misinterpreted, so they carefully word things so as not to be misleading. I disagree with your interpretation.
fastasleep said: Exactly. I am on my 7th year with my current MBP and can't wait to get into a fully-loaded 15" i9 this year and ditch all my legacy enclosures and cables. So-called "pros" clinging to crappy legacy 5Gbps ports and their connectors over 40Gbps do-everything ports cracks me up.
Some 'pros' actually use their laptops while on the road and out and about and stuff like that. Sure, if you're using it as a desktop replacement where you can cable everything up on your desk and buy just the right components, etc. it would be OK (so long as you can find stable adapters for stuff like Ethernet).
If you're at a client site, for example, what is more important is to get the files off their thumb-drive, not that it happens a bit faster. Or, maybe that you can get a good connection into the server rack with the Ethernet cable hanging out for access. Or, that you can pull the SD card out of the camera and get the video off. If you regularly do those kind of things while on the road, adapter, hubs, etc are just a pain and things to lose.
They don't do everything if you don't have the right adapter... they do nothing.
JFC this again. Any professional worth their salt will adequately prepare and bring what they need to a job. Is your charger a pain and a thing to lose? I've never lost one. Just keep all that shit together. Thumb drives... always about the thumb drives. Pack a single USB-C stick with USB-A, SD, and Ethernet on it if that kind of workflow is important to you. It's not to me, I can't recall the last time in 5-10 years when someone handed me a thumb drive, but if I came across those types of connections on the road and needed it, that's one single adapter to velcro to my power brick that I never lose so I never lose it either. "Pain" my ass. I still say 99% of these scenarios are made up by hand wringers who have never actually had these things happen.
fastasleep said: They don't signal like that unless they mean to. They know how that could be misinterpreted, so they carefully word things so as not to be misleading. I disagree with your interpretation.
No, then they would say something more like, 'An update is coming, but we won't currently comment on the timeframe.' That's clear. Saying it has an important place in the product line, says just that. The current Mac mini has an important place in the product line. That an update is coming, is also certainly a valid interpretation. My point is that it wasn't clear, and in the context of the uncertainty at the time, could have meant either. I'm glad it seems now that it is becoming more clear.
fastasleep said: Any professional worth their salt will adequately prepare and bring what they need to a job.
Of course they would, but the point is whether they should have to or not.
A device that needs extra adapters and gadgets to operate isn't as convenient as one that doesn't. If there is some worthwhile advantage, then sure. But, purposely excluding USB-A isn't any kind of advantage for anyone in actual functionality. If it were there, you could just choose not to use it and carry the adapter along just the same.
fastasleep said: They don't signal like that unless they mean to. They know how that could be misinterpreted, so they carefully word things so as not to be misleading. I disagree with your interpretation.
No, then they would say something more like, 'An update is coming, but we won't currently comment on the timeframe.' That's clear. Saying it has an important place in the product line, says just that. The current Mac mini has an important place in the product line. That an update is coming, is also certainly a valid interpretation. My point is that it wasn't clear, and in the context of the uncertainty at the time, could have meant either. I'm glad it seems now that it is becoming more clear.
fastasleep said: Any professional worth their salt will adequately prepare and bring what they need to a job.
Of course they would, but the point is whether they should have to or not.
A device that needs extra adapters and gadgets to operate isn't as convenient as one that doesn't. If there is some worthwhile advantage, then sure. But, purposely excluding USB-A isn't any kind of advantage for anyone in actual functionality. If it were there, you could just choose not to use it and carry the adapter along just the same.
A list of ports that have been used in the last 10 years and are still potentially ports used: HDMI Displayport DVI Video Port VGA port Apple Video Port Mini Displayport USB-A USB-C Firewire Component Video Line In (Sound) Headphone jack out Optical Audio (TosLink) Ethernet Port (Gig and 10Gig - price/speed choices - before the vendors would build in 100MB port then 1GB came out and you were screwed until you bought a new laptop). MIDI Port SD Memory Card Micro SD Memory Card Memory Stick Compact Flash
BTW, I still have and need a serial port to USB cable/adapter.
Instead of designing a laptop for each type of professional or situation, IMHO it makes more sense to make it with the most advanced ports available and let the end user choose what they use and what adaptors/cables they need.
bkkcanuck said: A list of ports that have been used in the last 10 years and are still potentially ports used:
HDMI Displayport DVI Video Port VGA port Apple Video Port Mini Displayport USB-A USB-C Firewire Component Video Line In (Sound) Headphone jack out Optical Audio (TosLink) Ethernet Port (Gig and 10Gig - price/speed choices - before the vendors would build in 100MB port then 1GB came out and you were screwed until you bought a new laptop). MIDI Port SD Memory Card Micro SD Memory Card Memory Stick Compact Flash
BTW, I still have and need a serial port to USB cable/adapter.
Instead of designing a laptop for each type of professional or situation, IMHO it makes more sense to make it with the most advanced ports available and let the end user choose what they use and what adaptors/cables they need.
But, the argument isn't to include every kind of port imaginable... but a couple of the most widely used ports.... along with USB-C. Then you have the best of both worlds, future positioning and current practicality.
As I said, I've yet to run into a USB-C in the wild. My son has a new MBP, and we've never plugged anything into that didn't need an adapter, yet. It's 100% inconvenience right now until we purchase something with USB-C.
In a few years, maybe USB-C will become more standard, reliable, and widely used. If/when that happens, it will be great. It just isn't there yet.
bkkcanuck said: If confronted with a laptop with 4 USB-C / Thunderbolt ports and one that has a mix of one (in most cases this is the max competitors have) or two USB-C ports (half the external bandwidth) with some USB-A ports... I would always choose the future, and always chose the first one. I can always order quality cables (USB-C to Micro USB, etc) to replace current cables and I have no problem with a dongle for a legacy hard-wired device - because it is on borrowed time... Future proofing rather than looking back.
I'm sure that will be the case one-day... but when? You should listen to the rest of that podcast I referenced, as they talk about difficulties of making devices work together, or failing to work right, or outright failing. The problem is that if you need a particular external port, you're depending on the quality of the particular dock/dongle. And, if you're out and about and need to plug something in, then you have to have your bag with you with appropriate adapters.
Once it is commonplace to run into USB-C devices in the wild (I've yet to see one), then sure. And, once people start making USB-C hubs, so you can plug multiple USB-C devices into one of your USB-C ports, or thing like that, it will get better too. And/or, once the standard settles and some good manufacturers step up and make good equipment.... that said, history doesn't smile too well on external ports being as good as internal ones.
And, I'm not sure why it would be 1 USB-C and the rest USB-A (or other ports). On the 15", they could put 4 USB-C and a USB-A, maybe an SD, etc. On smaller devices, maybe 2 USB-C and a couple other ports.
I'm all for buying for the future, but if that future is 5 or 10 years off, I'd rather not be the one inconvenienced to pretend I'm in that future.
cgWerks said: (As John Siracusa said on a recent ATP episode... what person, given the choice between a MBP with only USB-C, or one with USB-C and USB-A wouldn't pick the latter?)
Me, for one.
You'd rather not have a USB-A port or SD port available?
Of the ports I mentioned in the last page, I have adapters and cables etc. for maybe 7 or 8 of the ones I listed. What I would personally like is rather irrelevant - what I want is to be able to do whatever I want. I see what is released and I figure out how I can make it work for me. If they add a USB-A port -- it is unlikely they will have 4 USB-C ports and personally, I would rather have the 4 USB-C ports and buy the cable I need rather than sacrifice some of the bandwidth so I can have a port which may not be of much use to me in 3 years time. I would like to be able to have it as compact and solid and be able to pull out the ports and put new ones in as I desired going forward, but every machine out there (especially laptops) make certain compromises. I prefer a company move forward - rather than gimp a machine in the future.
If all computer companies give you what you already have and not the future -- we will always be stuck in the past for decades to come. Many good technologies die because too many vendors react rather than push forward. So many PCs still lack good Thunderbolt ports today just because of this.
I listen to ATP and I have listened to that podcast and the one this week and to be quite honestly most of the time they are a bunch of people whining about a glass being 20% empty than 80% full. It is a constant and ongoing drone of negativity rather about how Apple is out to get them.
bkkcanuck said: A list of ports that have been used in the last 10 years and are still potentially ports used:
HDMI Displayport DVI Video Port VGA port Apple Video Port Mini Displayport USB-A USB-C Firewire Component Video Line In (Sound) Headphone jack out Optical Audio (TosLink) Ethernet Port (Gig and 10Gig - price/speed choices - before the vendors would build in 100MB port then 1GB came out and you were screwed until you bought a new laptop). MIDI Port SD Memory Card Micro SD Memory Card Memory Stick Compact Flash
BTW, I still have and need a serial port to USB cable/adapter.
Instead of designing a laptop for each type of professional or situation, IMHO it makes more sense to make it with the most advanced ports available and let the end user choose what they use and what adaptors/cables they need.
But, the argument isn't to include every kind of port imaginable... but a couple of the most widely used ports.... along with USB-C. Then you have the best of both worlds, future positioning and current practicality.
As I said, I've yet to run into a USB-C in the wild. My son has a new MBP, and we've never plugged anything into that didn't need an adapter, yet. It's 100% inconvenience right now until we purchase something with USB-C.
In a few years, maybe USB-C will become more standard, reliable, and widely used. If/when that happens, it will be great. It just isn't there yet.
Chicken and egg. I see USB-C in the wild, I especially see Thunderbolt USB-C in the wild for devices that interest me -- which is anything high bandwidth or where latency can cause performance degradation (Storage / External DAS, 10GB Ethernet, external expansion, the ability to have more than one external monitor). USB is good for cheap devices where price/benefit is an issue. Vendors that include USB-A often have only at most one USB-C/Thunderbolt port -- or none at all. So many improvements in technology die because so many companies won't spend the extra $20 to move forward or to push forward and thus it is the chicken and the egg situation.
It took years for motherboard manufacturers to include USB3 en mass because USB2 was cheaper... and for keyboard and mice you only need USB2. You rarely see Thunderbolt on motherboards today for the same reason... yet for anything where latency is an issue or shear bandwidth is an issue... there is no substitute.
For 10+ years it really really bugged me that I could not attach multiple monitors to a laptop. The newer ports finally made it a reality, but before then it was considered too niche to address.
bkkcanuck said: I would like to be able to have it as compact and solid and be able to pull out the ports and put new ones in as I desired going forward, but every machine out there (especially laptops) make certain compromises. I prefer a company move forward - rather than gimp a machine in the future.
They are still putting them on some of the desktop machines. If USB-C is the future, why include the other ports on, say, the iMac Pro? Couldn't people even more easily use adapters there? I think it has mostly to do with ascetics and minimalism that seems so treasured at Apple these days. Yes, compromises... but that would make some sense on the 13" but not so much on the 15".
bkkcanuck said: I listen to ATP and I have listened to that podcast and the one this week and to be quite honestly most of the time they are a bunch of people whining about a glass being 20% empty than 80% full. It is a constant and ongoing drone of negativity rather about how Apple is out to get them.
Maybe, but I think Marco's rants about the laptops (and what he likes about them) is pretty spot on from my experience with them so far. I haven't, however, tried as many adapters and cables, etc. that he has so far, but it matches experience I've had with other external ports (ex: external Ethernet adapters). And, I've had strange issues with some USB hub, and have more than a few of them die. That kind of stuff typically doesn't happen with built-in ports.
bkkcanuck said: So many improvements in technology die because so many companies won't spend the extra $20 to move forward or to push forward and thus it is the chicken and the egg situation.
It took years for motherboard manufacturers to include USB3 en mass because USB2 was cheaper... and for keyboard and mice you only need USB2. You rarely see Thunderbolt on motherboards today for the same reason... yet for anything where latency is an issue or shear bandwidth is an issue... there is no substitute.
True, but aren't all those companies still doing that? And, has the industry responded by bringing great USB-C stuff out? I suppose it will take some time, but if the general overall industry isn't interested in TB, then it won't make much of a difference which port type they pick.
bkkcanuck said: For 10+ years it really really bugged me that I could not attach multiple monitors to a laptop. The newer ports finally made it a reality, but before then it was considered too niche to address.
Yeah, TB3/USB-C is nice for turning a laptop into a desktop. But not everyone uses their laptop as a desktop replacement. Some people actually use laptops as mobile computers.
My point is that for those people, having to have docks and dongles is inconvenient at best. I'm not even one of those people much anymore, but I used to be. And, I'd not have been happy with dongles and adapters. As mentioned, they are sometimes less reliable. They often can get pulled out more easily. And all these smaller and smaller connectors (especially with long 'jackets' for the size of the connector, are dangerous to damaging the port physically.
fastasleep said: They don't signal like that unless they mean to. They know how that could be misinterpreted, so they carefully word things so as not to be misleading. I disagree with your interpretation.
No, then they would say something more like, 'An update is coming, but we won't currently comment on the timeframe.' That's clear. Saying it has an important place in the product line, says just that. The current Mac mini has an important place in the product line. That an update is coming, is also certainly a valid interpretation. My point is that it wasn't clear, and in the context of the uncertainty at the time, could have meant either. I'm glad it seems now that it is becoming more clear.
You conveniently left out the key part of that sentence, which was "While it is not time to share any details, we do plan for" which implies future action. I don't know why reading comprehension with regard to what Cook said is so tough for people in this forum.
fastasleep said: Any professional worth their salt will adequately prepare and bring what they need to a job.
Of course they would, but the point is whether they should have to or not.
A device that needs extra adapters and gadgets to operate isn't as convenient as one that doesn't. If there is some worthwhile advantage, then sure. But, purposely excluding USB-A isn't any kind of advantage for anyone in actual functionality. If it were there, you could just choose not to use it and carry the adapter along just the same.
By that logic I should still have both FW800 and FW400 connectors for all my existing gear on a new MBP I buy this year. And miniDP for my Cinema Displays that I already had to adapt from Dual-DVI, or god forbid someone needs to plug in a Thunderbolt 1/2 cable. And bring back Ethernet from 6 years ago! And SD cards, because some people need those sometimes. Better add microSD since some people moved to those, or CF cards for that matter. By the way we need to add another half inch and another couple pounds back on your MacBook Pro and oh hey look we're 10 years in the past.
Fuck that, I'm getting rid of all those things as quickly as possible.
Yeah, TB3/USB-C is nice for turning a laptop into a desktop. But not everyone uses their laptop as a desktop replacement. Some people actually use laptops as mobile computers.
My point is that for those people, having to have docks and dongles is inconvenient at best. I'm not even one of those people much anymore, but I used to be. And, I'd not have been happy with dongles and adapters. As mentioned, they are sometimes less reliable. They often can get pulled out more easily. And all these smaller and smaller connectors (especially with long 'jackets' for the size of the connector, are dangerous to damaging the port physically.
How many situations where you're mobile do you plug into other peoples' gear? If you're plugging into your own gear, wouldn't you just have the proper cable? And can you not absorb the idea that if you do some sort of mobile task that requires x kinds of connections there are literally many many permutations of a single hub that encompasses everything you need in one single piece of kit that you can pack with your power brick? It's NOT that big of a deal.
And again, "I'm not even one of those people" yet you're complaining about these manufactured situations.
fastasleep said: You conveniently left out the key part of that sentence, which was "While it is not time to share any details, we do plan for" which implies future action.
Yes, the future action of either: a) updating it, or b) keeping it as a part of the product line for some amount of future time. If he wanted to make it clear that it would be getting an update, there are a number of other things he could have said that would have much more clearly indicated that. Yes, your interpretation is one correct possibility. My interpretation is also possible, if Apple had decided they were going to end it, but didn't want to cause any fuss over it until they were ready to announce a replacement or some other direction, etc. Imagine that second scenario in your mind and read the statement... it still works.
fastasleep said: By that logic I should still have both FW800 and FW400 connectors for all my existing gear on a new MBP I buy this year. ... And bring back Ethernet from 6 years ago! And SD cards, because some people need those sometimes. Better add microSD since some people moved to those, or CF cards for that matter. By the way we need to add another half inch and another couple pounds back on your MacBook Pro and oh hey look we're 10 years in the past.
Umm... no. Hardly anyone is using FW800 and FW400 any more. Nearly everyone is using USB-A. Ethernet would sure be nice for some situations... you're not using Ethernet anymore? SD cards are also quite popular, while the other variations you mention are less so.
Also, note that I said it makes sense to remove some of those, depending on the design. On a MacBook, or even a 13" MBP, it's a different story than the 15" MBP. And, there are always design tradeoffs. If they got rid of the huge trackpad, they could free up some space too.
As I mentioned in other posts/threads... if I were still doing with a laptop what I used to do with laptops (i.e.: use them professionally as an IT person, and/or for 3D rendering) I'd be fine with the size of the mid-late 2000s MBPs IF it meant better cooling, better GPU, all the ports I need built-in, better keyboard, etc.
I love smaller and lighter, but there comes a point where you trade too much practicality and functionality to get there, and I think Apple has crossed that line, especially when applied to every model and variation. Sure, some people are going to love the power in the smallest possible package. Aside from cooling/noise, I'm probably now more in that camp than I used to be (when I spent a good bit of time in server rooms... i.e.: Ethernet). But, that doesn't mean it suits everyone best.
fastasleep said: How many situations where you're mobile do you plug into other peoples' gear? If you're plugging into your own gear, wouldn't you just have the proper cable? And can you not absorb the idea that if you do some sort of mobile task that requires x kinds of connections there are literally many many permutations of a single hub that encompasses everything you need in one single piece of kit that you can pack with your power brick? It's NOT that big of a deal.
And again, "I'm not even one of those people" yet you're complaining about these manufactured situations.
I used to travel to client sites in one of my jobs. In another, I spent time in a server room that didn't have WiFi, or where I needed to connect directly into the Ethernet network a particular server was on. If you've ever been in a server room, you're often using something like a TV tray or worse. There isn't space for hubs, etc. And, if I'm just walking across the street from my office to the server room, or to another floor of the building, etc., I maybe well not typically bring my briefcase or backpack along either (or my power brick).
re: not a big deal - well, I suppose not, in terms of 'can't be done' but I'm talking more about inconvenience and what someone in that kind of situation would prefer. Sure, you can always be sure you have a backpack along, stocked with proper dongles and cables. I'd rather just have the ports if the tradeoff isn't too huge.
re: not one of those people - Just because I don't do that anymore, doesn't mean there aren't lots of people who do. I'm making the argument on their behalf in opposition to people who don't have those needs and can't seem to understand.
I’m not sure what this “Pro” really trying to be. I’m sure they can easily put an i7-8750H inside the chassis of a current Mac mini, but do they need to? A high power U-series will do just fine for most tasks, yet produce less heat and letting the machine runs quieter. There’s no need to compete just for sake of compete.
And naming like “Mac mini Pro” feels really awful... “Mac Pro mini” guys? Nah.
cgWerks said: (As John Siracusa said on a recent ATP episode... what person, given the choice between a MBP with only USB-C, or one with USB-C and USB-A wouldn't pick the latter?)
Me, for one.
You'd rather not have a USB-A port or SD port available?
Yes. It's time to move forward, and I'd rather rip the bandaid off. I don't *need* any of those things and the longer we cling to them the longer they'll be around. I can use a USB-C cable direct to my camera or whatever else USB device, or an SD card reader. It's fine.
fastasleep said: Again, why would a CEO say "not time to share any details" and "we do plan for" and "going forward" and NOT mean that they're going to release a new one? He wouldn't have bothered to respond to the email at all if it were going to be discontinued, let alone use future-looking statements. It boggles the mind that there's any doubt here as to what Cook means.
Context and timing is important here. It isn't out of the question for a CEO (or company spokesperson) to give a carefully worded reply to something like that that doesn't necessarily indicate either way. If Apple never updates the mini, that statement is still true, depending on the time-scale for the Mac overall. It now looks like Apple has a future for the Mac, but that wasn't so certain when that was said.
That makes no sense to me. The context and timing is that they are pivoting back to focus on the Mac after a significant lull, as has been clearly outlined up to that point with their talk about the Pro/Displays and MBP and everything else. Cook was pretty clear they were working on something. Schiller was pretty clear that they didn't bring it up before when they had all the Pro-related discussions because the mini was more of a mix of consumer and pro as he put it. Ie., it's not dead. They don't signal like that unless they mean to. They know how that could be misinterpreted, so they carefully word things so as not to be misleading. I disagree with your interpretation.
fastasleep said: Exactly. I am on my 7th year with my current MBP and can't wait to get into a fully-loaded 15" i9 this year and ditch all my legacy enclosures and cables. So-called "pros" clinging to crappy legacy 5Gbps ports and their connectors over 40Gbps do-everything ports cracks me up.
Some 'pros' actually use their laptops while on the road and out and about and stuff like that. Sure, if you're using it as a desktop replacement where you can cable everything up on your desk and buy just the right components, etc. it would be OK (so long as you can find stable adapters for stuff like Ethernet).
If you're at a client site, for example, what is more important is to get the files off their thumb-drive, not that it happens a bit faster. Or, maybe that you can get a good connection into the server rack with the Ethernet cable hanging out for access. Or, that you can pull the SD card out of the camera and get the video off. If you regularly do those kind of things while on the road, adapter, hubs, etc are just a pain and things to lose.
They don't do everything if you don't have the right adapter... they do nothing.
JFC this again. Any professional worth their salt will adequately prepare and bring what they need to a job. Is your charger a pain and a thing to lose? I've never lost one. Just keep all that shit together. Thumb drives... always about the thumb drives. Pack a single USB-C stick with USB-A, SD, and Ethernet on it if that kind of workflow is important to you. It's not to me, I can't recall the last time in 5-10 years when someone handed me a thumb drive, but if I came across those types of connections on the road and needed it, that's one single adapter to velcro to my power brick that I never lose so I never lose it either. "Pain" my ass. I still say 99% of these scenarios are made up by hand wringers who have never actually had these things happen.
Considering how cheap and mass produced the Type-A and rest (Mini & Micro-USB) was, they’re not gonna go away for a long time. In fact, many vintage ports were still being used today, just look at those Cisco routers & switches with a console port, or look around and see how many monitors still supports VGA. None of the modern laptops have RS-232 and VGA built-in yet most never complained about it.
Type-C & Thunderbolt is way different. It isn’t your typical single-use port in any way, rather an super powerful serial hub to begin with (an external PCI-E x4 Plus Display & USB-PD). You’re really wasting power if you just wanna stick a flash drive. Thinking about doing entire PD, monitors, eGPU and some extra Type-A hub in one port, that’s really convenient which other traditional laptops can’t do. If I really need converter on-the-go, I can just grab a mobile docks that have two USB Type-A with display output that stick on the side of the MacBook Pro and consider it done.
Sure, there’s nothing wrong if people wanna cooperate with existing solutions, but with four external PCI-E x4s, I don’t miss Type-A & rest on the MacBook Pro the same way people doesn’t miss VGA & RS-232. Plus, many solutions out there are good enough to sort through everything.
I’m not sure what this “Pro” really trying to be. I’m sure they can easily put an i7-8750H inside the chassis of a current Mac mini, but do they need to? A high power U-series will do just fine for most tasks, yet produce less heat and letting the machine runs quieter. There’s no need to compete just for sake of compete.
And naming like “Mac mini Pro” feels really awful... “Mac Pro mini” guys? Nah.
My guess is that it will just be going back to something more like we had in 2012. A mini with quad, maybe hex option for CPU, updated GPU (but integrated, nothing special, now that we have the Black Magic eGPU option), and modern ports, SSD, etc.
Sounds like a great machine for me... which means more waiting. But, I'm doubting them saying it is going more towards the pro means much of anything more than that.
If a MacBook Pro is pro, than this would be plenty pro as well. Again, the definition of pro has changed at Apple (a quality of the device vs target market).
fastasleep said: You conveniently left out the key part of that sentence, which was "While it is not time to share any details, we do plan for" which implies future action.
Yes, the future action of either: a) updating it, or b) keeping it as a part of the product line for some amount of future time. If he wanted to make it clear that it would be getting an update, there are a number of other things he could have said that would have much more clearly indicated that. Yes, your interpretation is one correct possibility. My interpretation is also possible, if Apple had decided they were going to end it, but didn't want to cause any fuss over it until they were ready to announce a replacement or some other direction, etc. Imagine that second scenario in your mind and read the statement... it still works.
fastasleep said: By that logic I should still have both FW800 and FW400 connectors for all my existing gear on a new MBP I buy this year. ... And bring back Ethernet from 6 years ago! And SD cards, because some people need those sometimes. Better add microSD since some people moved to those, or CF cards for that matter. By the way we need to add another half inch and another couple pounds back on your MacBook Pro and oh hey look we're 10 years in the past.
Umm... no. Hardly anyone is using FW800 and FW400 any more. Nearly everyone is using USB-A. Ethernet would sure be nice for some situations... you're not using Ethernet anymore? SD cards are also quite popular, while the other variations you mention are less so.
Also, note that I said it makes sense to remove some of those, depending on the design. On a MacBook, or even a 13" MBP, it's a different story than the 15" MBP. And, there are always design tradeoffs. If they got rid of the huge trackpad, they could free up some space too.
As I mentioned in other posts/threads... if I were still doing with a laptop what I used to do with laptops (i.e.: use them professionally as an IT person, and/or for 3D rendering) I'd be fine with the size of the mid-late 2000s MBPs IF it meant better cooling, better GPU, all the ports I need built-in, better keyboard, etc.
I love smaller and lighter, but there comes a point where you trade too much practicality and functionality to get there, and I think Apple has crossed that line, especially when applied to every model and variation. Sure, some people are going to love the power in the smallest possible package. Aside from cooling/noise, I'm probably now more in that camp than I used to be (when I spent a good bit of time in server rooms... i.e.: Ethernet). But, that doesn't mean it suits everyone best.
fastasleep said: How many situations where you're mobile do you plug into other peoples' gear? If you're plugging into your own gear, wouldn't you just have the proper cable? And can you not absorb the idea that if you do some sort of mobile task that requires x kinds of connections there are literally many many permutations of a single hub that encompasses everything you need in one single piece of kit that you can pack with your power brick? It's NOT that big of a deal.
And again, "I'm not even one of those people" yet you're complaining about these manufactured situations.
I used to travel to client sites in one of my jobs. In another, I spent time in a server room that didn't have WiFi, or where I needed to connect directly into the Ethernet network a particular server was on. If you've ever been in a server room, you're often using something like a TV tray or worse. There isn't space for hubs, etc. And, if I'm just walking across the street from my office to the server room, or to another floor of the building, etc., I maybe well not typically bring my briefcase or backpack along either (or my power brick).
re: not a big deal - well, I suppose not, in terms of 'can't be done' but I'm talking more about inconvenience and what someone in that kind of situation would prefer. Sure, you can always be sure you have a backpack along, stocked with proper dongles and cables. I'd rather just have the ports if the tradeoff isn't too huge.
re: not one of those people - Just because I don't do that anymore, doesn't mean there aren't lots of people who do. I'm making the argument on their behalf in opposition to people who don't have those needs and can't seem to understand.
Nobody in any normal scenario needs a “backpack stocked with dongles and cables”. That’s intellectually dishonest and you know it. Your scenario of walking over to a server room and not wanting to bring a bag or pocket full of whatever, here’s your solution. Stick this on the side of your Mac when you leave your desk and you’re covered:
Comments
Exactly. I am on my 7th year with my current MBP and can't wait to get into a fully-loaded 15" i9 this year and ditch all my legacy enclosures and cables. So-called "pros" clinging to crappy legacy 5Gbps ports and their connectors over 40Gbps do-everything ports cracks me up.
Yeah, that's one of the things I never got about the "Oh noes! Apple wants us to buy their dongles!" crowd. It's not just that any of the ports can be repurposed to whatever ports they want, it's also that how long do they expect to hang on to some of this gear? Hence all the gags about RS-232 ports and vampire taps. In most instances, you're going to have to update all your peripherals anyway. You can put that off for a while using a dongle. You only have to carry the dongles with you if you take all these peripherals with you all the time.
Yes, OK, video connectors for presentations are a thing, but they were before. My previous MacBook had one video-out that was a proprietary mini-VGA plug. So I didn't even get good connectivity out of that, and if I wanted to connect it to someone else's setup (or even a monitor in my own home) I had to carry an adapter. (Yes, it was old. I hung on to it long past its use-by date.) Even if you had a MacBook Air with a Mini-Display Port socket, you probably had to carry a full-size Display Port or HDMI adapter to connect.
So, yeah, I'm another one who, when offered a choice between all USB-C/TB3 or some USB-C and USB-A and single use ports, will go for the former. Four ports I can do pretty much anything with, or a bunch of ports that can do one or two things? Not a contest in my mind.
I do wonder if alongside their pro-oriented Mac Mini's, if they'll have some lower-cost standard configurations, akin to what we had in 2014.
I hope so, but I hope it's a success either way.
Once it is commonplace to run into USB-C devices in the wild (I've yet to see one), then sure. And, once people start making USB-C hubs, so you can plug multiple USB-C devices into one of your USB-C ports, or thing like that, it will get better too. And/or, once the standard settles and some good manufacturers step up and make good equipment.... that said, history doesn't smile too well on external ports being as good as internal ones.
And, I'm not sure why it would be 1 USB-C and the rest USB-A (or other ports). On the 15", they could put 4 USB-C and a USB-A, maybe an SD, etc. On smaller devices, maybe 2 USB-C and a couple other ports.
I'm all for buying for the future, but if that future is 5 or 10 years off, I'd rather not be the one inconvenienced to pretend I'm in that future.
You'd rather not have a USB-A port or SD port available?
Context and timing is important here. It isn't out of the question for a CEO (or company spokesperson) to give a carefully worded reply to something like that that doesn't necessarily indicate either way. If Apple never updates the mini, that statement is still true, depending on the time-scale for the Mac overall. It now looks like Apple has a future for the Mac, but that wasn't so certain when that was said.
Some 'pros' actually use their laptops while on the road and out and about and stuff like that. Sure, if you're using it as a desktop replacement where you can cable everything up on your desk and buy just the right components, etc. it would be OK (so long as you can find stable adapters for stuff like Ethernet).
If you're at a client site, for example, what is more important is to get the files off their thumb-drive, not that it happens a bit faster. Or, maybe that you can get a good connection into the server rack with the Ethernet cable hanging out for access. Or, that you can pull the SD card out of the camera and get the video off. If you regularly do those kind of things while on the road, adapter, hubs, etc are just a pain and things to lose.
They don't do everything if you don't have the right adapter... they do nothing.
Yeah, that is a fair point that we were already part way there (i.e.: Ethernet, displays) in most cases. That sucks, but at least for those cases, the argument can be made that they might not easily fit into the small designs. But, a USB-A or SD isn't really the same. And, like it or not, USB-A is going to be the standard for at least a few years yet (as far as I can see).
As I said previously... when I start seeing them in the wild, I'll know the time is starting to come. Currently, USB-C is kind of like FireWire 800 in the late 90s (i.e.: great if you bought all the FW 800 stuff).
That's a good question. If I'm reading the tea-leaves correctly, Macs are drifting towards 'pros' while Apple would say those people should get iPads. Or, maybe the lower end will be A-series driven, which might mean some new device (cf. all the speculation over the last year).
I'm REALLY happy to hear this (and hopefully it is true), that the mini is going more pro and less consumer. But, that's kind of selfish on my part.
That makes no sense to me. The context and timing is that they are pivoting back to focus on the Mac after a significant lull, as has been clearly outlined up to that point with their talk about the Pro/Displays and MBP and everything else. Cook was pretty clear they were working on something. Schiller was pretty clear that they didn't bring it up before when they had all the Pro-related discussions because the mini was more of a mix of consumer and pro as he put it. Ie., it's not dead. They don't signal like that unless they mean to. They know how that could be misinterpreted, so they carefully word things so as not to be misleading. I disagree with your interpretation.
JFC this again. Any professional worth their salt will adequately prepare and bring what they need to a job. Is your charger a pain and a thing to lose? I've never lost one. Just keep all that shit together. Thumb drives... always about the thumb drives. Pack a single USB-C stick with USB-A, SD, and Ethernet on it if that kind of workflow is important to you. It's not to me, I can't recall the last time in 5-10 years when someone handed me a thumb drive, but if I came across those types of connections on the road and needed it, that's one single adapter to velcro to my power brick that I never lose so I never lose it either. "Pain" my ass. I still say 99% of these scenarios are made up by hand wringers who have never actually had these things happen.
Of course they would, but the point is whether they should have to or not.
A device that needs extra adapters and gadgets to operate isn't as convenient as one that doesn't. If there is some worthwhile advantage, then sure. But, purposely excluding USB-A isn't any kind of advantage for anyone in actual functionality. If it were there, you could just choose not to use it and carry the adapter along just the same.
HDMI
Displayport
DVI Video Port
VGA port
Apple Video Port
Mini Displayport
USB-A
USB-C
Firewire
Component Video
Line In (Sound)
Headphone jack out
Optical Audio (TosLink)
Ethernet Port (Gig and 10Gig - price/speed choices - before the vendors would build in 100MB port then 1GB came out and you were screwed until you bought a new laptop).
MIDI Port
SD Memory Card
Micro SD Memory Card
Memory Stick
Compact Flash
BTW, I still have and need a serial port to USB cable/adapter.
Instead of designing a laptop for each type of professional or situation, IMHO it makes more sense to make it with the most advanced ports available and let the end user choose what they use and what adaptors/cables they need.
As I said, I've yet to run into a USB-C in the wild. My son has a new MBP, and we've never plugged anything into that didn't need an adapter, yet. It's 100% inconvenience right now until we purchase something with USB-C.
In a few years, maybe USB-C will become more standard, reliable, and widely used. If/when that happens, it will be great. It just isn't there yet.
If all computer companies give you what you already have and not the future -- we will always be stuck in the past for decades to come. Many good technologies die because too many vendors react rather than push forward. So many PCs still lack good Thunderbolt ports today just because of this.
I listen to ATP and I have listened to that podcast and the one this week and to be quite honestly most of the time they are a bunch of people whining about a glass being 20% empty than 80% full. It is a constant and ongoing drone of negativity rather about how Apple is out to get them.
It took years for motherboard manufacturers to include USB3 en mass because USB2 was cheaper... and for keyboard and mice you only need USB2. You rarely see Thunderbolt on motherboards today for the same reason... yet for anything where latency is an issue or shear bandwidth is an issue... there is no substitute.
For 10+ years it really really bugged me that I could not attach multiple monitors to a laptop. The newer ports finally made it a reality, but before then it was considered too niche to address.
Maybe, but I think Marco's rants about the laptops (and what he likes about them) is pretty spot on from my experience with them so far. I haven't, however, tried as many adapters and cables, etc. that he has so far, but it matches experience I've had with other external ports (ex: external Ethernet adapters). And, I've had strange issues with some USB hub, and have more than a few of them die. That kind of stuff typically doesn't happen with built-in ports.
True, but aren't all those companies still doing that? And, has the industry responded by bringing great USB-C stuff out? I suppose it will take some time, but if the general overall industry isn't interested in TB, then it won't make much of a difference which port type they pick.
Yeah, TB3/USB-C is nice for turning a laptop into a desktop. But not everyone uses their laptop as a desktop replacement. Some people actually use laptops as mobile computers.
My point is that for those people, having to have docks and dongles is inconvenient at best. I'm not even one of those people much anymore, but I used to be. And, I'd not have been happy with dongles and adapters. As mentioned, they are sometimes less reliable. They often can get pulled out more easily. And all these smaller and smaller connectors (especially with long 'jackets' for the size of the connector, are dangerous to damaging the port physically.
By that logic I should still have both FW800 and FW400 connectors for all my existing gear on a new MBP I buy this year. And miniDP for my Cinema Displays that I already had to adapt from Dual-DVI, or god forbid someone needs to plug in a Thunderbolt 1/2 cable. And bring back Ethernet from 6 years ago! And SD cards, because some people need those sometimes. Better add microSD since some people moved to those, or CF cards for that matter. By the way we need to add another half inch and another couple pounds back on your MacBook Pro and oh hey look we're 10 years in the past.
Fuck that, I'm getting rid of all those things as quickly as possible.
How many situations where you're mobile do you plug into other peoples' gear? If you're plugging into your own gear, wouldn't you just have the proper cable? And can you not absorb the idea that if you do some sort of mobile task that requires x kinds of connections there are literally many many permutations of a single hub that encompasses everything you need in one single piece of kit that you can pack with your power brick? It's NOT that big of a deal.
And again, "I'm not even one of those people" yet you're complaining about these manufactured situations.
a) updating it, or
b) keeping it as a part of the product line for some amount of future time.
If he wanted to make it clear that it would be getting an update, there are a number of other things he could have said that would have much more clearly indicated that. Yes, your interpretation is one correct possibility. My interpretation is also possible, if Apple had decided they were going to end it, but didn't want to cause any fuss over it until they were ready to announce a replacement or some other direction, etc. Imagine that second scenario in your mind and read the statement... it still works.
Umm... no. Hardly anyone is using FW800 and FW400 any more. Nearly everyone is using USB-A. Ethernet would sure be nice for some situations... you're not using Ethernet anymore? SD cards are also quite popular, while the other variations you mention are less so.
Also, note that I said it makes sense to remove some of those, depending on the design. On a MacBook, or even a 13" MBP, it's a different story than the 15" MBP. And, there are always design tradeoffs. If they got rid of the huge trackpad, they could free up some space too.
As I mentioned in other posts/threads... if I were still doing with a laptop what I used to do with laptops (i.e.: use them professionally as an IT person, and/or for 3D rendering) I'd be fine with the size of the mid-late 2000s MBPs IF it meant better cooling, better GPU, all the ports I need built-in, better keyboard, etc.
I love smaller and lighter, but there comes a point where you trade too much practicality and functionality to get there, and I think Apple has crossed that line, especially when applied to every model and variation. Sure, some people are going to love the power in the smallest possible package. Aside from cooling/noise, I'm probably now more in that camp than I used to be (when I spent a good bit of time in server rooms... i.e.: Ethernet). But, that doesn't mean it suits everyone best.
I used to travel to client sites in one of my jobs. In another, I spent time in a server room that didn't have WiFi, or where I needed to connect directly into the Ethernet network a particular server was on. If you've ever been in a server room, you're often using something like a TV tray or worse. There isn't space for hubs, etc. And, if I'm just walking across the street from my office to the server room, or to another floor of the building, etc., I maybe well not typically bring my briefcase or backpack along either (or my power brick).
re: not a big deal - well, I suppose not, in terms of 'can't be done' but I'm talking more about inconvenience and what someone in that kind of situation would prefer. Sure, you can always be sure you have a backpack along, stocked with proper dongles and cables. I'd rather just have the ports if the tradeoff isn't too huge.
re: not one of those people - Just because I don't do that anymore, doesn't mean there aren't lots of people who do. I'm making the argument on their behalf in opposition to people who don't have those needs and can't seem to understand.
A high power U-series will do just fine for most tasks, yet produce less heat and letting the machine runs quieter. There’s no need to compete just for sake of compete.
And naming like “Mac mini Pro” feels really awful... “Mac Pro mini” guys? Nah.
Type-C & Thunderbolt is way different. It isn’t your typical single-use port in any way, rather an super powerful serial hub to begin with (an external PCI-E x4 Plus Display & USB-PD). You’re really wasting power if you just wanna stick a flash drive. Thinking about doing entire PD, monitors, eGPU and some extra Type-A hub in one port, that’s really convenient which other traditional laptops can’t do. If I really need converter on-the-go, I can just grab a mobile docks that have two USB Type-A with display output that stick on the side of the MacBook Pro and consider it done.
Sure, there’s nothing wrong if people wanna cooperate with existing solutions, but with four external PCI-E x4s, I don’t miss Type-A & rest on the MacBook Pro the same way people doesn’t miss VGA & RS-232. Plus, many solutions out there are good enough to sort through everything.
Sounds like a great machine for me... which means more waiting. But, I'm doubting them saying it is going more towards the pro means much of anything more than that.
If a MacBook Pro is pro, than this would be plenty pro as well. Again, the definition of pro has changed at Apple (a quality of the device vs target market).
Nobody in any normal scenario needs a “backpack stocked with dongles and cables”. That’s intellectually dishonest and you know it. Your scenario of walking over to a server room and not wanting to bring a bag or pocket full of whatever, here’s your solution. Stick this on the side of your Mac when you leave your desk and you’re covered:
https://www.amazon.com/Ethernet-HOGORE-Thunderbolt-Pass-Through-Charging/dp/B07GKJBXM3/ref=sr_1_12_sspa
This covers most if not all of your use cases in a small modular accessory that sits flush on the side of your Mac.
Again, any “Pro™️“ worth their salt will have a tool like this or whatever they need to get their job done.