So is this going to be a Mac Mini Pro? And is there something that will actually make it “pro” or is it just a way for Apple to raise the price? Customers will be pissed if the only new Mac Mini is one that’s more expensive.
Here we go again. First you complain about it being too old, too low-spec’d...now with new hardware you’ll complain that it’s too expensive. Classic.
So releasing a new model with updated specs means they need to increase the price?
$20 says it'll have more modern ports on the back with expandable RAM and accessible drive bays... just like the 2012 model, but it'll be "Pro" because it'll be expandable just like the old model. Innovative at a Pro price.
So is this going to be a Mac Mini Pro? And is there something that will actually make it “pro” or is it just a way for Apple to raise the price? Customers will be pissed if the only new Mac Mini is one that’s more expensive.
Good question but who really knows and can talk? For a pro oriented Mini All Apple would need to do is to offer one with a quad or may six core processor to move it firmly into "Pro" territory. The pros I'm think of here are not the media developers by the way ( you know the guys demanding 64 cores and a bazillion bytes of storage. I've been saying for a long time Apple doens't have anything at all that plays in the low end workstation market. This is a box that starts at $1000 and likely seldom exceeds $2000.
I wouldn't be that pissed. It would be nice for Apple to ship a sub $700 box for the entry level but the lack of updates kinda demonstrates that that market is nearly dead. This does high light an issue with Apples model line ups, often there is not a big enough performance delta from the entry level to the performance machine. If it was me the "pro" Mini would have a 2 core variant at the extreme low end with the high end machining offering an 8 core chip. In a 3 machine Mini offering the mid-range model would have a 4 core chip.
I'm still wondering if these will be the rumored shift to ARM machines or will Apple stay i86. Hell I could see them going AMD here.
So a lower cost MBA with retina screen? Not buying it. I could see a better screen than the current model. But a screen as good as the rMB or rMBP? And cheaper? No way. Also wouldn’t said product just make the rMB obsolete?
I don’t think Apple sold too many rMBs. Ived into unusablity. The current MBA would outsell it in multiples.
I think they’d update it with an additional USB-C port before they’d kill it off. Also I think the biggest issue was price not specs.
Well a port is a spec point. However the biggest complaint I've heard with regard to the Mac Book is performance followed quickly by screen size. YOu get below 13" on just aobut any platform and the screens become cramped.
This is probably Tim Cooks way of regurgitating another one of those same old, same old, Mac products. There was nothing wrong with the Mac mini until they removed the upgradability in 2011. The Mac mini wasn't the only model to be butchered into a piece of scrap. The iMac was also reduced to an underpowered planned obsolesce pile of junk too! All Apple has done has manage and extend the company's existing products instead of lead the industry into the future with new, innovative, cutting edge designs. Steve Jobs was very good at knowing what we needed before we needed it. Tim Cook is good for making little incremental changes (or taking away features) to existing products, reincluding them or offering them with a bit of an upgrade and charging customers an arm and a leg for them to satisfy shareholders. He's no visionary leader to me. He reminds me an NBA coach with 5 superstars already on the roster and not having to actually coach them but taking credit for it when they wind up winning the NBA championship.
my guess is more streamlined monolithic body to be better stacked, or racked, separate graphics card than the built-in Intel graphics, and that's probably it (not eliminating all the useful ports qualifies as a pro feature nowadays, do that one also)
Space for both a SSD and a backup HD, easily user replaceable/up-gradable
Expandable memory by user
More than 1 USB/Thunderbolt 3 port
plus 1 USB 3.0 type A on front for charging/syncing/transferring without having to reach around to the back or buy a hub
Compact, but not small & thin just to be small & thin, It's a desktop computer !
Just a user up-gradable, stylish, basic computer that runs Mac OS. Can't a Trillion $ company sell just one model like this?
So you have never used Mac? Mac can easily be backuped wirelessly, no need for secondary HDD like PC.
I doubt we'll see user replaceable/expandable anything other than over Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt will probably be the only port(s) since it also carries USB, DisplayPort (HDMI, DVI, VGA), Ethernet and PCIe. Moblie CPU. Basically, a rack mountable 13" MBP and 15" MBP. That simplifies the supply chain.
I suppose they could have user replaceable SSDs but they'd be way slower than Apple's configuration which get speed up to 2.5GB/s. Apple has been using dual SSD chips (no onboard controller) with the T-2 chip as the controller to handle all i/o and encryption. Users would be giving up a lot of speed in a downgrade to user replaceable drives.
User replaceable RAM could be in the works but that's just not the way Apple works unless you get the high end model. So expect to flip $2k+ plus for the base box if they offer it.
I really don't see the point of a Type-A port. USB 3.0 Type-A to Thunderbolt is a $4 cable, it's not an adapter or converter, just a plain cable.
EDIT: It should have one ethernet port on the low end and maybe two on the high-end, based on the customers they are targeting, plus Thunderbolt.
Interesting point on the SSD. Still I'd rather see secondary ports for additional storage. The high performance storage doesn't need to be replaced but there is always justification for Adding more storage.
Interestingly the day will come when you pay a performance penalty for going with replaceable RAM. Take AMD'
s GPU's using the in chip high performance memories, you can't get better performance by going off package. Physics forces you to slow down. I could see AMD offering its APU chips with embedded RAM simply to give the GPU the bandwidth it requires. So when you buy an APU style chip you will have to choose from 8 or 16 GB or built in RAM. That day is coming.
The use cases for Mac mini would say otherwise. Also, Apple apologised for trash can Mac Pro, so I don’t see your idea happening. Creative effort, though.
Oh, you’re right. A lot of people try to make rack mounted servers out of the Mac Mini, don’t they? OH! xMac! It can become the xMac! A “headless” iMac-range desktop! But wait. There’s more! An Xserve and Xserve RAID, combined, are 6.98” tall. That’s 4U in a standard rack. The cylinder Mac Pro is only 6.6” in diameter. What about a custom housing standardized to 4U to slide in… two Mac Pro cylinders? Aww… I was hoping for 3, but that won’t work. Maybe the extra space between them could fit a couple of hard drives?
I wish Apple would allow users to upgrade internals again. Don't get me wrong, my Hackintosh runs great. It would just be nice to be able to get the GPUs I want, the CPUs I want, and the I/O ports I want without having to run Windoze right out of the box.
Configurations will probably be with 2-4 Thunderbolt ports, 128-4TB SSD (dual chip configuration with a single controller), 8-32GB RAM and 2-6 core options in two different models. One model with DDR3 (up to 16GB) and the second with DDR4 (up to 32GB). 99% certain it won't have a dedicated GPU or desktop processors so it will not overlap with the new MacPro.
So basically, they are shoving a 13" MBP logic board in the low end model and a 15" MBP logic board in the high end model. Don't be surprised if it can the same form factor as the laptop logic board.
Price range $1000 to $3000.
This is HP's Z2 mini G4. This is the professional compact workstation of 2018 that Apple would be competing against.
Top tier model
Windows / Linux Intel Xeon E-2176G (6 core / 80 W TDP / user replaceable) 32 GB ECC-2666 (user replaceable) NVIDIA Quadro P1000 4 GB GDDR5 (MXM slot / user replaceable) 1 TB PCIe NVMe SSD (user replaceable) 1 TB SATA HDD (user replaceable) 802.11ac + BT 5.0 (user replaceable) TPM 2.0 (EAL4+ certified) Vesa mount Security lock 3 year global warranty (up to 5 years on-site) Workstation ISV certifications
I would seriously hope a "professional" mac mini doesn't have MacBook Pro hardware with an iGPU.
Who knows, maybe they'll juice it up. I'm certain you're going to be looking at 1-2 ethernet ports, 2-4 Thunderbolt ports and if you get lucky a few USB 3 Type A. Pretty sure you won't see any DisplayPorts or Serial Ports. Who knows? I serious doubt it will have user replaceable SSD unless they add a second slot because Apple's SSD with 2.5GBs read/write is hard to beat.
The question is how the new "modular" Mac Pro will fit into all of this. MacPro use to start at $2k. Maybe they will overlap each other in the $2k-$3k range in it's modular format. Regardless, I have a feeling you'll need a Mac Pro is you want user replaceable drives and ram with PCIe slots.
Apple doesn't necessarily need to put a high power GPU inside it when there are TB3 external solutions out there for those that need more powerful graphics. Just an idea to keep in mind. So they could keep a similar form factor (size) because of this and just focus on cooling the CPU.
This often mentioned but the truth is that TB3 on a $750 card is turning its performance into the equivalent of a $250 - $350 card. TB3 is a wired connection with protocol overhead which only allows access to basically 4 PCIe lanes. The more powerful the card, the more you are penalizing the user. On a nVidia 1080Ti that was about a 30% penalty. So you have to connect a port up to PCIe, run it across to another box, plug it into another PCIe bus, install another power supply (which has additional costs). This is fine for a laptop where you have no real options, but it is stupid to expect this as the base solution for any desktop. It is more a hack for limitations built into the product. If you are expecting a user to get an eGPU for a desktop -- then you are doing it wrong. The decision on whether a desktop has a PCIe bus should be purely based on function and the market it is targeted at.
All true but that's why they sell 15" MBPs, iMacs and MacPros with a proper GPU.
Configurations will probably be with 2-4 Thunderbolt ports, 128-4TB SSD (dual chip configuration with a single controller), 8-32GB RAM and 2-6 core options in two different models. One model with DDR3 (up to 16GB) and the second with DDR4 (up to 32GB). 99% certain it won't have a dedicated GPU or desktop processors so it will not overlap with the new MacPro.
So basically, they are shoving a 13" MBP logic board in the low end model and a 15" MBP logic board in the high end model. Don't be surprised if it can the same form factor as the laptop logic board.
Price range $1000 to $3000.
This is HP's Z2 mini G4. This is the professional compact workstation of 2018 that Apple would be competing against.
Top tier model
Windows / Linux Intel Xeon E-2176G (6 core / 80 W TDP / user replaceable) 32 GB ECC-2666 (user replaceable) NVIDIA Quadro P1000 4 GB GDDR5 (MXM slot / user replaceable) 1 TB PCIe NVMe SSD (user replaceable) 1 TB SATA HDD (user replaceable) 802.11ac + BT 5.0 (user replaceable) TPM 2.0 (EAL4+ certified) Vesa mount Security lock 3 year global warranty (up to 5 years on-site) Workstation ISV certifications
I would seriously hope a "professional" mac mini doesn't have MacBook Pro hardware with an iGPU.
And how much does it cost? Looking at some local sites, rather a lot more than a Mac Mini does. And that was for the model with no USB-C and only 16GB of RAM.
It has been very nearly four years since the Mac mini was updated
That's only true if you count slowing processor intensive tasks by half, an 'update'. Going form 4 core i7 to dual core i5 was a significant downgrade as evidenced by the high s/h price of core i7's.
So is this going to be a Mac Mini Pro? And is there something that will actually make it “pro” or is it just a way for Apple to raise the price? Customers will be pissed if the only new Mac Mini is one that’s more expensive.
Think of an iMac 27" internals housed in a Mac mini box. I'm all for this. I like the idea of desktop computers being head-less that way you can upgrade the screen & CPU separately when you want.
I'm struggling to figure out where a "pro" Mac Mini fits into Apple's product. If it's truly a pro class machine it would have to fit somewhere between the iMac 5K and the iMac Pro and possibly lower spec'd versions of the next generation Mac Pro. I guess this niche would provide an unattached CPU for Apple's next generation monitor, i.e.. TB monitor replacement. This all makes the Mac product line seem overly crowded and somewhat confusing.
Why confusing? They're doing a new display to sell alongside their Mac Pro (and possibly MBPs, eGPUs, etc before that if they come sooner), so why not push out a new mini that might occasionally trigger a display sale as well? If the mini is indeed coming this year, I have a hard time seeing them launch it without a monitor to go with it. They still show the discontinued TB Display on the Mac mini web page.
I'd be more excited with a NUC-like Apple Mini box that can be attached to a spare HDMI port on a 4K HDTV and used as a couch computer and for some casual gaming. Perhaps Apple could also design the new Mini to it to integrate directly with the Apple TV 4K so the pair (Mini + ATV) only consume one HDMI port on a TV/monitor and share computational and video processing capability. In other words, the new Mini extends the Apple TV and vice versa. You could for example launch Pages, Numbers, Safari, etc., directly from your Apple TV and these apps would execute on the attached/paired Mac Mini and render on the TV screen.
Configurations will probably be with 2-4 Thunderbolt ports, 128-4TB SSD (dual chip configuration with a single controller), 8-32GB RAM and 2-6 core options in two different models. One model with DDR3 (up to 16GB) and the second with DDR4 (up to 32GB). 99% certain it won't have a dedicated GPU or desktop processors so it will not overlap with the new MacPro.
So basically, they are shoving a 13" MBP logic board in the low end model and a 15" MBP logic board in the high end model. Don't be surprised if it can the same form factor as the laptop logic board.
Price range $1000 to $3000.
This is HP's Z2 mini G4. This is the professional compact workstation of 2018 that Apple would be competing against.
Top tier model
Windows / Linux Intel Xeon E-2176G (6 core / 80 W TDP / user replaceable) 32 GB ECC-2666 (user replaceable) NVIDIA Quadro P1000 4 GB GDDR5 (MXM slot / user replaceable) 1 TB PCIe NVMe SSD (user replaceable) 1 TB SATA HDD (user replaceable) 802.11ac + BT 5.0 (user replaceable) TPM 2.0 (EAL4+ certified) Vesa mount Security lock 3 year global warranty (up to 5 years on-site) Workstation ISV certifications
I would seriously hope a "professional" mac mini doesn't have MacBook Pro hardware with an iGPU.
And how much does it cost? Looking at some local sites, rather a lot more than a Mac Mini does. And that was for the model with no USB-C and only 16GB of RAM.
No pricing just yet. The ones you see now are the last generation (G3).
Fully loaded, with the 5 year on-site warranty, I can see the G4 being around $2500~$3000.
Configurations will probably be with 2-4 Thunderbolt ports, 128-4TB SSD (dual chip configuration with a single controller), 8-32GB RAM and 2-6 core options in two different models. One model with DDR3 (up to 16GB) and the second with DDR4 (up to 32GB). 99% certain it won't have a dedicated GPU or desktop processors so it will not overlap with the new MacPro.
So basically, they are shoving a 13" MBP logic board in the low end model and a 15" MBP logic board in the high end model. Don't be surprised if it can the same form factor as the laptop logic board.
Price range $1000 to $3000.
This is HP's Z2 mini G4. This is the professional compact workstation of 2018 that Apple would be competing against.
Top tier model
Windows / Linux Intel Xeon E-2176G (6 core / 80 W TDP / user replaceable) 32 GB ECC-2666 (user replaceable) NVIDIA Quadro P1000 4 GB GDDR5 (MXM slot / user replaceable) 1 TB PCIe NVMe SSD (user replaceable) 1 TB SATA HDD (user replaceable) 802.11ac + BT 5.0 (user replaceable) TPM 2.0 (EAL4+ certified) Vesa mount Security lock 3 year global warranty (up to 5 years on-site) Workstation ISV certifications
I would seriously hope a "professional" mac mini doesn't have MacBook Pro hardware with an iGPU.
And how much does it cost? Looking at some local sites, rather a lot more than a Mac Mini does. And that was for the model with no USB-C and only 16GB of RAM.
No pricing just yet. The ones you see now are the last generation (G3).
Fully loaded, with the 5 year on-site warranty, I can see the G4 being around $2500~$3000.
So it's not really competing with the Mac Mini, except maybe at the extreme high end. I doubt they'll put a Xeon in the Mac Mini, but on the other hand, they'll probably sell it at a third the price you're talking about for the Z2.
fastasleep said: What do you think AirPlay is for?
Huh… What about an entire ecosystem of products that form a mesh Wi-Fi network, with Apple’s new standalone display being itself an AirPlay display. Any computer (or iDevice) in the house could simply throw up its own interface onto said display. Or (with an Apple TV) you could send any computer’s display to any of your HDTVs.
Then again, they did just kill AirPort. I doubt they care.
This is probably Tim Cooks way of regurgitating another one of those same old, same old, Mac products. There was nothing wrong with the Mac mini until they removed the upgradability in 2011. The Mac mini wasn't the only model to be butchered into a piece of scrap. The iMac was also reduced to an underpowered planned obsolesce pile of junk too! All Apple has done has manage and extend the company's existing products instead of lead the industry into the future with new, innovative, cutting edge designs. Steve Jobs was very good at knowing what we needed before we needed it. Tim Cook is good for making little incremental changes (or taking away features) to existing products, reincluding them or offering them with a bit of an upgrade and charging customers an arm and a leg for them to satisfy shareholders. He's no visionary leader to me. He reminds me an NBA coach with 5 superstars already on the roster and not having to actually coach them but taking credit for it when they wind up winning the NBA championship.
How exactly were the current iMacs "reduced to underpowered planned obsolesce pile of junk"?
fastasleep said: What do you think AirPlay is for?
Huh… What about an entire ecosystem of products that form a mesh Wi-Fi network, with Apple’s new standalone display being itself an AirPlay display. Any computer (or iDevice) in the house could simply throw up its own interface onto said display. Or (with an Apple TV) you could send any computer’s display to any of your HDTVs.
Then again, they did just kill AirPort. I doubt they care.
Not sure what you mean. You can already AirPlay to any HDTV in your home. Assuming they release a 4K display, not sure why you couldn't just do that with an ATV as well.
This is probably Tim Cooks way of regurgitating another one of those same old, same old, Mac products. There was nothing wrong with the Mac mini until they removed the upgradability in 2011. The Mac mini wasn't the only model to be butchered into a piece of scrap. The iMac was also reduced to an underpowered planned obsolesce pile of junk too! All Apple has done has manage and extend the company's existing products instead of lead the industry into the future with new, innovative, cutting edge designs. Steve Jobs was very good at knowing what we needed before we needed it. Tim Cook is good for making little incremental changes (or taking away features) to existing products, reincluding them or offering them with a bit of an upgrade and charging customers an arm and a leg for them to satisfy shareholders. He's no visionary leader to me. He reminds me an NBA coach with 5 superstars already on the roster and not having to actually coach them but taking credit for it when they wind up winning the NBA championship.
I think you need to back to Apple History class again. You obviously got an F....
Comments
The question is how the new "modular" Mac Pro will fit into all of this. MacPro use to start at $2k. Maybe they will overlap each other in the $2k-$3k range in it's modular format. Regardless, I have a feeling you'll need a Mac Pro is you want user replaceable drives and ram with PCIe slots.
All true but that's why they sell 15" MBPs, iMacs and MacPros with a proper GPU.
That's only true if you count slowing processor intensive tasks by half, an 'update'. Going form 4 core i7 to dual core i5 was a significant downgrade as evidenced by the high s/h price of core i7's.
What do you think AirPlay is for?
Fully loaded, with the 5 year on-site warranty, I can see the G4 being around $2500~$3000.
Then again, they did just kill AirPort. I doubt they care.
I think you need to back to Apple History class again. You obviously got an F....