Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Why do we care what your crappy chinese knockoffs do?
I did not ask for anyone to 'care'. I asked a simple question and even explained why I asked it. I see you yourself have no answer to it because if you did you would have given it.
I don't have a dual camera iPhone. I just assumed this feature (the one detailed in the video) was already present on those iPhones, hence my surprise and subsequent question
Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
....
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Huawei? Who cares. Do major US network carriers even carry that pos?
So you assume that rest of the world does not matter, huh? Arrogance like that does not pay of. Huiwaei dominates markets elswhere and perhaps instead of being arrogant you may need reality check that those phones as well as Samsung dominate in Europe and Apple iPhone is nowhere near. You should star caring because on competitive markets other vendors build solutions that Apple follows (not leads) and some brainwash seems to be out there that Apple is the only innovator. The fact is that Apple came with few features 9(like biometrics) later than Samsung for example, but Samsung never claimed it was copied by Apple so you assume that Apple was first. Instead of reading only Apple news maye be you should start tracking general technology state. You would be surprized what you did not know and assumed that only one vendor innovates.
Yes we do care about Huwaei, Samsung, LG and Google. Some pople did not review some features and thise dominant on other markets companies already have some stuff that nobody seems here to have a clue about. On top of that some of it is far more practical. Some even say that Pixel 2 photo quality is now top on the market - not Apple iPhones. there will be those now claimin that Aperture mode is so innovative. Well on phones it alreay exist, and it was used on SLR cameras (I used it for years) for decades now. It just got squeezed into smaller package - nothing else.
Apple doesn't have an iPhone under $449, though there may be lower cost models manufacturer for India.
Seriously, do you think that this data makes Apple look bad?
Sure, Apple doesn't cater at all to the under $400 market, where the bulk of Huawei's sales are, but I will state that it is likely that Apple will sell a similar number of XS and XS Max units World Wide by the end of this month, as Huawei has sold of the P20 series since its March release. The P20 Pro isn't a great seller, although Avon B7 has tried to portray it as a great success, with pretty flakey data. Maybe it is. Nonetheless, is a likelihood that Apple will sell 80 to 85 million iPhones next quarter, and about 70% of those, will be the X models.
Being first with niche features is a fool's game, but appropriate for the Android OS device market, where any differentiation at all is a huge marketing necessity. That's likely why we see mostly unbaked innovation in these devices first. Apple, works off of internal roadmap, so these companies, and their customers, as guinea pigs for new features is actually savvy.
Flakey data?
Niche features?
The data on P20 Series sales came straight from Huawei. Official numbers. It has been a massive success.
Aperture Mode is one of the main features on Huawei phones, not a niche feature. Even on my little Honor 10.
I didn't ask this question last week simply because I thought the feature was different. Seeing the description here, and noting that the process is virtually identical, prompted me to ask.
There is no need to go on the defensive.
From the same company that lies about benchmarks?
So please enlighten us. How many P20 or P20 Pro phones has Huawei sold? Why say "massive success" without backing it up with hard data?
Edited: Funny, I went over to Geekbench and don't see any benchmarks for the P20 or P20 Pro anywhere. Geekbench is useful for one other thing besides benchmarks. They require a minimum number of tests before a device gets listed in their charts. This is why you won't see a device in their charts until some time after it launches and enough people have tested it. The Note 9 is also another device that hasn't hit the charts yet, and like last year, I expect it will show up shortly. The iPhone XS and XS Max have both already shown up, meaning there have been a LOT of sales of these devices. And like in years past, the latest iPhone usually shows up a day or two after release.
I'm REALLY curious why the P20/Pro aren't listed. My guess is it hasn't sold as well as Huawei claims.
You cannot be serious. This again?
Come on. Do your own Googling! There is a thread here where I had to spell this out multiple times and it was still doubted - even though ALL the links were in that same thread!
Do you really want me to dig it out again and take this thread off topic too? Because that is where it will end up. I really can't see the point as this was gone through so recently. This is the first result Google gave me:
So just numbers from Huawei then. Nothing to back it up and no third party corroboration.
Take this thread off topic? You mean like you ALWAYS do shilling for Huawei as if anybody here cares?
To be honest, as soon as he got so desperate that he ran to the Daily Express for evidence, then I’m afraid his argument was already lost.
Far from desperate. It was literally the first link Google returned and as I said, I wasn't going to go digging for links people had already asked for - multiple times - and I had already given -multiple times- and see things veer off topic yet again. Especially as Eric was participating in that thread and it was recent.
Yes, a tabloid but I did actually read it and the information Eric asked for (plus much more) was actually quoted and cited, making the origin of the piece completely irrelevant.
A good dedicated camera does a lot that the iphone doesn't, sorry., Focal length choices, raw image files, a camera that you can handle by touch without needing to swipe it open and stare at the screen is a great thing. No minimalist phone camera is ever going to be able to fill in for that.
Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Here we go with the Huawei crap. Seriously, are you being paid o talk about Huawei on an Apple site? Can’t you stick to Huawei, or at least a Samsung, or even a general purpose Android site? They might appreciate your junk there more, though the Samsung people won’t.
Apple now has the best cameras ever made. Professional photographers will not need anything else.
I defy anybody to see any differences unless the photo is blow up to billboard size.
Ugh, as someone whose career was commercial photography, I bet to differ. I expect these images to be pretty good, but truthfully, I will never be able to make a 17x25” print on my printer with this and have it look sharp. The dynamic range, even with HDR won’t be as good either. The lenses are very limiting.
for the usual uses, Facebook, email, messaging and some online photo sharing sites such as Flik’r, it will be just dandy.
unless you’re kidding about this, don’t believe Shiller’s remarks about professional photography. That’s just his marketing job.
Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Here we go with the Huawei crap. Seriously, are you being paid o talk about Huawei on an Apple site? Can’t you stick to Huawei, or at least a Samsung, or even a general purpose Android site? They might appreciate your junk there more, though the Samsung people won’t.
So you don't have an answer either. This isn't 'Huawei crap'. If you have an answer please provide it instead of attacking.
No. I have no connection to Huawei beyond owning a Huawei phone. I also have an iPhone at home (more than one in fact) for which I provide support.
I am perfectly placed to comment on these points because I set off from a neutral position. If you don't like it I am sorry but there is no need to go on the defensive. If you have nothing constructive to offer beyond barbs why not refrain from launching them?
As for this being an Apple site, you are mistaken. Just look at the amount of articles on Samsung, Amazon, Google and sometimes Huawei right here.
Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
....
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Huawei? Who cares. Do major US network carriers even carry that pos?
So you assume that rest of the world does not matter, huh? Arrogance like that does not pay of. Huiwaei dominates markets elswhere and perhaps instead of being arrogant you may need reality check that those phones as well as Samsung dominate in Europe and Apple iPhone is nowhere near. You should star caring because on competitive markets other vendors build solutions that Apple follows (not leads) and some brainwash seems to be out there that Apple is the only innovator. The fact is that Apple came with few features 9(like biometrics) later than Samsung for example, but Samsung never claimed it was copied by Apple so you assume that Apple was first. Instead of reading only Apple news maye be you should start tracking general technology state. You would be surprized what you did not know and assumed that only one vendor innovates.
Yes we do care about Huwaei, Samsung, LG and Google. Some pople did not review some features and thise dominant on other markets companies already have some stuff that nobody seems here to have a clue about. On top of that some of it is far more practical. Some even say that Pixel 2 photo quality is now top on the market - not Apple iPhones. there will be those now claimin that Aperture mode is so innovative. Well on phones it alreay exist, and it was used on SLR cameras (I used it for years) for decades now. It just got squeezed into smaller package - nothing else.
Apple doesn't have an iPhone under $449, though there may be lower cost models manufacturer for India.
Seriously, do you think that this data makes Apple look bad?
Sure, Apple doesn't cater at all to the under $400 market, where the bulk of Huawei's sales are, but I will state that it is likely that Apple will sell a similar number of XS and XS Max units World Wide by the end of this month, as Huawei has sold of the P20 series since its March release. The P20 Pro isn't a great seller, although Avon B7 has tried to portray it as a great success, with pretty flakey data. Maybe it is. Nonetheless, is a likelihood that Apple will sell 80 to 85 million iPhones next quarter, and about 70% of those, will be the X models.
Being first with niche features is a fool's game, but appropriate for the Android OS device market, where any differentiation at all is a huge marketing necessity. That's likely why we see mostly unbaked innovation in these devices first. Apple, works off of internal roadmap, so these companies, and their customers, as guinea pigs for new features is actually savvy.
Flakey data?
Niche features?
The data on P20 Series sales came straight from Huawei. Official numbers. It has been a massive success.
Aperture Mode is one of the main features on Huawei phones, not a niche feature. Even on my little Honor 10.
I didn't ask this question last week simply because I thought the feature was different. Seeing the description here, and noting that the process is virtually identical, prompted me to ask.
There is no need to go on the defensive.
Well, as we all know, Huawei cheats on testing, something I notice you failed to respond to when I posted that to you in a different thread. I wouldn’t be surprised if they lie about other things too. Whether you like it or not, Chinese companies are known to be, shall we say, flexible, in their company reports. A tiny picture also says little about the quality of the effect, as most everything looks good in a small size. At any rate, we need a couple of dozen images of different types to get an idea as to how well these features work overall, because one well selected image might be great, while most others may be crap.
aperture mode has to prove itself. Samsung also has a variable aperture, but images using it are no better than those not using it. We’ve also seen a coup,e of phones using two cameras, one taking luminance images, and the other using color images. Supposedly, much better images result. And indeed, the marketing images shown did look pretty good. But when the phones were out in the “wild”, it turned out that the images were pretty bad. These gimmicks rarely work.
Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
....
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Huawei? Who cares. Do major US network carriers even carry that pos?
So you assume that rest of the world does not matter, huh? Arrogance like that does not pay of. Huiwaei dominates markets elswhere and perhaps instead of being arrogant you may need reality check that those phones as well as Samsung dominate in Europe and Apple iPhone is nowhere near. You should star caring because on competitive markets other vendors build solutions that Apple follows (not leads) and some brainwash seems to be out there that Apple is the only innovator. The fact is that Apple came with few features 9(like biometrics) later than Samsung for example, but Samsung never claimed it was copied by Apple so you assume that Apple was first. Instead of reading only Apple news maye be you should start tracking general technology state. You would be surprized what you did not know and assumed that only one vendor innovates.
Yes we do care about Huwaei, Samsung, LG and Google. Some pople did not review some features and thise dominant on other markets companies already have some stuff that nobody seems here to have a clue about. On top of that some of it is far more practical. Some even say that Pixel 2 photo quality is now top on the market - not Apple iPhones. there will be those now claimin that Aperture mode is so innovative. Well on phones it alreay exist, and it was used on SLR cameras (I used it for years) for decades now. It just got squeezed into smaller package - nothing else.
Apple doesn't have an iPhone under $449, though there may be lower cost models manufacturer for India.
Seriously, do you think that this data makes Apple look bad?
Sure, Apple doesn't cater at all to the under $400 market, where the bulk of Huawei's sales are, but I will state that it is likely that Apple will sell a similar number of XS and XS Max units World Wide by the end of this month, as Huawei has sold of the P20 series since its March release. The P20 Pro isn't a great seller, although Avon B7 has tried to portray it as a great success, with pretty flakey data. Maybe it is. Nonetheless, is a likelihood that Apple will sell 80 to 85 million iPhones next quarter, and about 70% of those, will be the X models.
Being first with niche features is a fool's game, but appropriate for the Android OS device market, where any differentiation at all is a huge marketing necessity. That's likely why we see mostly unbaked innovation in these devices first. Apple, works off of internal roadmap, so these companies, and their customers, as guinea pigs for new features is actually savvy.
Flakey data?
Niche features?
The data on P20 Series sales came straight from Huawei. Official numbers. It has been a massive success.
Yes, 10M P20 and P20 Pro is a great success. However, that's like combining iPhone 8 and iPhone X sales. Except that in Apple's case we know that the iPhone X is the best seller. Want to bet that the P20 is the top seller and not the vaunted P20 Pro?
I thought the Pro wasn’t out yet. That’s the one with the new mediocre Kirin 980 that hasn’t arrived yet, or it that an even newer model? The Mate, perhaps?
Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
....
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Huawei? Who cares. Do major US network carriers even carry that pos?
So you assume that rest of the world does not matter, huh? Arrogance like that does not pay of. Huiwaei dominates markets elswhere and perhaps instead of being arrogant you may need reality check that those phones as well as Samsung dominate in Europe and Apple iPhone is nowhere near. You should star caring because on competitive markets other vendors build solutions that Apple follows (not leads) and some brainwash seems to be out there that Apple is the only innovator. The fact is that Apple came with few features 9(like biometrics) later than Samsung for example, but Samsung never claimed it was copied by Apple so you assume that Apple was first. Instead of reading only Apple news maye be you should start tracking general technology state. You would be surprized what you did not know and assumed that only one vendor innovates.
Yes we do care about Huwaei, Samsung, LG and Google. Some pople did not review some features and thise dominant on other markets companies already have some stuff that nobody seems here to have a clue about. On top of that some of it is far more practical. Some even say that Pixel 2 photo quality is now top on the market - not Apple iPhones. there will be those now claimin that Aperture mode is so innovative. Well on phones it alreay exist, and it was used on SLR cameras (I used it for years) for decades now. It just got squeezed into smaller package - nothing else.
Apple doesn't have an iPhone under $449, though there may be lower cost models manufacturer for India.
Seriously, do you think that this data makes Apple look bad?
Sure, Apple doesn't cater at all to the under $400 market, where the bulk of Huawei's sales are, but I will state that it is likely that Apple will sell a similar number of XS and XS Max units World Wide by the end of this month, as Huawei has sold of the P20 series since its March release. The P20 Pro isn't a great seller, although Avon B7 has tried to portray it as a great success, with pretty flakey data. Maybe it is. Nonetheless, is a likelihood that Apple will sell 80 to 85 million iPhones next quarter, and about 70% of those, will be the X models.
Being first with niche features is a fool's game, but appropriate for the Android OS device market, where any differentiation at all is a huge marketing necessity. That's likely why we see mostly unbaked innovation in these devices first. Apple, works off of internal roadmap, so these companies, and their customers, as guinea pigs for new features is actually savvy.
Flakey data?
Niche features?
The data on P20 Series sales came straight from Huawei. Official numbers. It has been a massive success.
Aperture Mode is one of the main features on Huawei phones, not a niche feature. Even on my little Honor 10.
I didn't ask this question last week simply because I thought the feature was different. Seeing the description here, and noting that the process is virtually identical, prompted me to ask.
There is no need to go on the defensive.
From the same company that lies about benchmarks?
So please enlighten us. How many P20 or P20 Pro phones has Huawei sold? Why say "massive success" without backing it up with hard data?
Edited: Funny, I went over to Geekbench and don't see any benchmarks for the P20 or P20 Pro anywhere. Geekbench is useful for one other thing besides benchmarks. They require a minimum number of tests before a device gets listed in their charts. This is why you won't see a device in their charts until some time after it launches and enough people have tested it. The Note 9 is also another device that hasn't hit the charts yet, and like last year, I expect it will show up shortly. The iPhone XS and XS Max have both already shown up, meaning there have been a LOT of sales of these devices. And like in years past, the latest iPhone usually shows up a day or two after release.
I'm REALLY curious why the P20/Pro aren't listed. My guess is it hasn't sold as well as Huawei claims.
Huawei had four devices banned for cheating, so whatever data was there, is now gone.
I know 3DMark removed four Huawei devices, but I haven't heard of anyone else removing them (such as Geekbench).
Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Here we go with the Huawei crap. Seriously, are you being paid o talk about Huawei on an Apple site? Can’t you stick to Huawei, or at least a Samsung, or even a general purpose Android site? They might appreciate your junk there more, though the Samsung people won’t.
So you don't have an answer either. This isn't 'Huawei crap'. If you have an answer please provide it instead of attacking.
No. I have no connection to Huawei beyond owning a Huawei phone. I also have an iPhone at home (more than one in fact) for which I provide support.
I am perfectly placed to comment on these points because I set off from a neutral position. If you don't like it I am sorry but there is no need to go on the defensive. If you have nothing constructive to offer beyond barbs why not refrain from launching them?
As for this being an Apple site, you are mistaken. Just look at the amount of articles on Samsung, Amazon, Google and sometimes Huawei right here.
Contrast with that of a camera with mechanical aperture:
First of all, the out of focus for the phone was obviously set to maximum. Take it down a notch and it will look a lot closer.
second of all, as I’ve pointed out in a couple of photography forums, Bokeh is a totally unnatural effect. Lens bokeh is no more natural, or “right” than computational bokeh.
the reason should be pretty obvious, but few people think things through to the end. We, that is, our eyes and brain, NEVER see a scene the way a camera does. Just look around, and you’ll realize that we don’t see bokeh. Our brain keeps us focused on what we’re looking at directly, and defocuses our ATTENTION from what we’re not directly looking at. By defocus, I mean lack of ability to make much sense of the peripheral areas. But we don’t see that bokeh with our eyes.
so bokeh is very unnatural when taken with a camera/lens no matter what. Because of that computational defocus is just as “natural” when compared to our actual vision, as that from a variable aperture lens. And as each lens has different bokeh, and different focal lengths have different bokeh, and different sensor sizes have different bokeh, which one is natural - none of them!
Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Why do we care what your crappy chinese knockoffs do?
I did not ask for anyone to 'care'. I asked a simple question and even explained why I asked it. I see you yourself have no answer to it because if you did you would have given it.
I don't have a dual camera iPhone. I just assumed this feature (the one detailed in the video) was already present on those iPhones, hence my surprise and subsequent question
Come off it, you’re not “simply asking”, you’re trying to suggest your chinese knockoffs were first blah blah.
A good dedicated camera does a lot that the iphone doesn't, sorry., Focal length choices, raw image files, a camera that you can handle by touch without needing to swipe it open and stare at the screen is a great thing. No minimalist phone camera is ever going to be able to fill in for that.
And those dedicated cameras won’t fit into your pants pocket and don’t have excellent connectivity for sharing, posting, and tweeting immediately. Point? Nobody said smartphones were the same as large cameras. Different devices, different use cases. Obviously.
Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
....
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Huawei? Who cares. Do major US network carriers even carry that pos?
So you assume that rest of the world does not matter, huh? Arrogance like that does not pay of. Huiwaei dominates markets elswhere and perhaps instead of being arrogant you may need reality check that those phones as well as Samsung dominate in Europe and Apple iPhone is nowhere near. You should star caring because on competitive markets other vendors build solutions that Apple follows (not leads) and some brainwash seems to be out there that Apple is the only innovator. The fact is that Apple came with few features 9(like biometrics) later than Samsung for example, but Samsung never claimed it was copied by Apple so you assume that Apple was first. Instead of reading only Apple news maye be you should start tracking general technology state. You would be surprized what you did not know and assumed that only one vendor innovates.
Yes we do care about Huwaei, Samsung, LG and Google. Some pople did not review some features and thise dominant on other markets companies already have some stuff that nobody seems here to have a clue about. On top of that some of it is far more practical. Some even say that Pixel 2 photo quality is now top on the market - not Apple iPhones. there will be those now claimin that Aperture mode is so innovative. Well on phones it alreay exist, and it was used on SLR cameras (I used it for years) for decades now. It just got squeezed into smaller package - nothing else.
Apple doesn't have an iPhone under $449, though there may be lower cost models manufacturer for India.
Seriously, do you think that this data makes Apple look bad?
Sure, Apple doesn't cater at all to the under $400 market, where the bulk of Huawei's sales are, but I will state that it is likely that Apple will sell a similar number of XS and XS Max units World Wide by the end of this month, as Huawei has sold of the P20 series since its March release. The P20 Pro isn't a great seller, although Avon B7 has tried to portray it as a great success, with pretty flakey data. Maybe it is. Nonetheless, is a likelihood that Apple will sell 80 to 85 million iPhones next quarter, and about 70% of those, will be the X models.
Being first with niche features is a fool's game, but appropriate for the Android OS device market, where any differentiation at all is a huge marketing necessity. That's likely why we see mostly unbaked innovation in these devices first. Apple, works off of internal roadmap, so these companies, and their customers, as guinea pigs for new features is actually savvy.
Flakey data?
Niche features?
The data on P20 Series sales came straight from Huawei. Official numbers. It has been a massive success.
Aperture Mode is one of the main features on Huawei phones, not a niche feature. Even on my little Honor 10.
I didn't ask this question last week simply because I thought the feature was different. Seeing the description here, and noting that the process is virtually identical, prompted me to ask.
There is no need to go on the defensive.
Well, as we all know, Huawei cheats on testing, something I notice you failed to respond to when I posted that to you in a different thread. I wouldn’t be surprised if they lie about other things too. Whether you like it or not, Chinese companies are known to be, shall we say, flexible, in their company reports. A tiny picture also says little about the quality of the effect, as most everything looks good in a small size. At any rate, we need a couple of dozen images of different types to get an idea as to how well these features work overall, because one well selected image might be great, while most others may be crap.
aperture mode has to prove itself. Samsung also has a variable aperture, but images using it are no better than those not using it. We’ve also seen a coup,e of phones using two cameras, one taking luminance images, and the other using color images. Supposedly, much better images result. And indeed, the marketing images shown did look pretty good. But when the phones were out in the “wild”, it turned out that the images were pretty bad. These gimmicks rarely work.
and yes, that evaluation goes for all phones.
They cheat their benchmarks, and they cheat their photos, using a pro DSLR rig while showing the result as if it were from their device.
We’ve all pointed this out to this astroturfer on numerous occasions, he is just forced to ignore it. No script for that.
Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
....
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Huawei? Who cares. Do major US network carriers even carry that pos?
So you assume that rest of the world does not matter, huh? Arrogance like that does not pay of. Huiwaei dominates markets elswhere and perhaps instead of being arrogant you may need reality check that those phones as well as Samsung dominate in Europe and Apple iPhone is nowhere near. You should star caring because on competitive markets other vendors build solutions that Apple follows (not leads) and some brainwash seems to be out there that Apple is the only innovator. The fact is that Apple came with few features 9(like biometrics) later than Samsung for example, but Samsung never claimed it was copied by Apple so you assume that Apple was first. Instead of reading only Apple news maye be you should start tracking general technology state. You would be surprized what you did not know and assumed that only one vendor innovates.
Yes we do care about Huwaei, Samsung, LG and Google. Some pople did not review some features and thise dominant on other markets companies already have some stuff that nobody seems here to have a clue about. On top of that some of it is far more practical. Some even say that Pixel 2 photo quality is now top on the market - not Apple iPhones. there will be those now claimin that Aperture mode is so innovative. Well on phones it alreay exist, and it was used on SLR cameras (I used it for years) for decades now. It just got squeezed into smaller package - nothing else.
Apple doesn't have an iPhone under $449, though there may be lower cost models manufacturer for India.
Seriously, do you think that this data makes Apple look bad?
Sure, Apple doesn't cater at all to the under $400 market, where the bulk of Huawei's sales are, but I will state that it is likely that Apple will sell a similar number of XS and XS Max units World Wide by the end of this month, as Huawei has sold of the P20 series since its March release. The P20 Pro isn't a great seller, although Avon B7 has tried to portray it as a great success, with pretty flakey data. Maybe it is. Nonetheless, is a likelihood that Apple will sell 80 to 85 million iPhones next quarter, and about 70% of those, will be the X models.
Being first with niche features is a fool's game, but appropriate for the Android OS device market, where any differentiation at all is a huge marketing necessity. That's likely why we see mostly unbaked innovation in these devices first. Apple, works off of internal roadmap, so these companies, and their customers, as guinea pigs for new features is actually savvy.
Flakey data?
Niche features?
The data on P20 Series sales came straight from Huawei. Official numbers. It has been a massive success.
Aperture Mode is one of the main features on Huawei phones, not a niche feature. Even on my little Honor 10.
I didn't ask this question last week simply because I thought the feature was different. Seeing the description here, and noting that the process is virtually identical, prompted me to ask.
There is no need to go on the defensive.
Well, as we all know, Huawei cheats on testing, something I notice you failed to respond to when I posted that to you in a different thread. I wouldn’t be surprised if they lie about other things too. Whether you like it or not, Chinese companies are known to be, shall we say, flexible, in their company reports. A tiny picture also says little about the quality of the effect, as most everything looks good in a small size. At any rate, we need a couple of dozen images of different types to get an idea as to how well these features work overall, because one well selected image might be great, while most others may be crap.
aperture mode has to prove itself. Samsung also has a variable aperture, but images using it are no better than those not using it. We’ve also seen a coup,e of phones using two cameras, one taking luminance images, and the other using color images. Supposedly, much better images result. And indeed, the marketing images shown did look pretty good. But when the phones were out in the “wild”, it turned out that the images were pretty bad. These gimmicks rarely work.
and yes, that evaluation goes for all phones.
I responded to the Huawei benchmark (and the DSLR) news the very first time it was mentioned here. I responded clearly and openly and was critical of the behaviour. You missed it, it seems.
You will forgive me for simply passing on the subsequent comments which are simply cheap shots aimed at the company - as a whole - because those comments are simply absurd, as the company as a whole is massive and far removed from the areas involved.
So when people start questioning the likes of HiSilicon, or the results of the imaging division or battery research - as you yourself did not long ago - it is frankly absurd too. I provide links. With all due respect you have simply limited yourself to telling people they are wrong but without offering any supporting information beyond your own knowledge. Would you accept it if I did the same?
Huawei is a private company but independently audited just like other companies. There is zero reason to question results.
On the subject at hand, you are now diverging from the feature itself into the quality if the feature. I have no issue with that. It is a valid comment and I agree - to a degree - but that has nothing to do with my point, which is a completely different.
And if this feature really hasn't existed on an iPhone until now, the quality is irrevelant. Even just 'acceptable' results would be good enough (even if purely hit and miss), if the other option was not having the feature at all.
Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
....
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Huawei? Who cares. Do major US network carriers even carry that pos?
So you assume that rest of the world does not matter, huh? Arrogance like that does not pay of. Huiwaei dominates markets elswhere and perhaps instead of being arrogant you may need reality check that those phones as well as Samsung dominate in Europe and Apple iPhone is nowhere near. You should star caring because on competitive markets other vendors build solutions that Apple follows (not leads) and some brainwash seems to be out there that Apple is the only innovator. The fact is that Apple came with few features 9(like biometrics) later than Samsung for example, but Samsung never claimed it was copied by Apple so you assume that Apple was first. Instead of reading only Apple news maye be you should start tracking general technology state. You would be surprized what you did not know and assumed that only one vendor innovates.
Yes we do care about Huwaei, Samsung, LG and Google. Some pople did not review some features and thise dominant on other markets companies already have some stuff that nobody seems here to have a clue about. On top of that some of it is far more practical. Some even say that Pixel 2 photo quality is now top on the market - not Apple iPhones. there will be those now claimin that Aperture mode is so innovative. Well on phones it alreay exist, and it was used on SLR cameras (I used it for years) for decades now. It just got squeezed into smaller package - nothing else.
Apple doesn't have an iPhone under $449, though there may be lower cost models manufacturer for India.
Seriously, do you think that this data makes Apple look bad?
Sure, Apple doesn't cater at all to the under $400 market, where the bulk of Huawei's sales are, but I will state that it is likely that Apple will sell a similar number of XS and XS Max units World Wide by the end of this month, as Huawei has sold of the P20 series since its March release. The P20 Pro isn't a great seller, although Avon B7 has tried to portray it as a great success, with pretty flakey data. Maybe it is. Nonetheless, is a likelihood that Apple will sell 80 to 85 million iPhones next quarter, and about 70% of those, will be the X models.
Being first with niche features is a fool's game, but appropriate for the Android OS device market, where any differentiation at all is a huge marketing necessity. That's likely why we see mostly unbaked innovation in these devices first. Apple, works off of internal roadmap, so these companies, and their customers, as guinea pigs for new features is actually savvy.
Flakey data?
Niche features?
The data on P20 Series sales came straight from Huawei. Official numbers. It has been a massive success.
Aperture Mode is one of the main features on Huawei phones, not a niche feature. Even on my little Honor 10.
I didn't ask this question last week simply because I thought the feature was different. Seeing the description here, and noting that the process is virtually identical, prompted me to ask.
There is no need to go on the defensive.
Well, as we all know, Huawei cheats on testing, something I notice you failed to respond to when I posted that to you in a different thread. I wouldn’t be surprised if they lie about other things too. Whether you like it or not, Chinese companies are known to be, shall we say, flexible, in their company reports. A tiny picture also says little about the quality of the effect, as most everything looks good in a small size. At any rate, we need a couple of dozen images of different types to get an idea as to how well these features work overall, because one well selected image might be great, while most others may be crap.
aperture mode has to prove itself. Samsung also has a variable aperture, but images using it are no better than those not using it. We’ve also seen a coup,e of phones using two cameras, one taking luminance images, and the other using color images. Supposedly, much better images result. And indeed, the marketing images shown did look pretty good. But when the phones were out in the “wild”, it turned out that the images were pretty bad. These gimmicks rarely work.
and yes, that evaluation goes for all phones.
I responded to the Huawei benchmark (and the DSLR) news the very first time it was mentioned here. I responded clearly and openly and was critical of the behaviour. You missed it, it seems.
You will forgive me for simply passing on the subsequent comments which are simply cheap shots aimed at the company - as a whole - because those comments are simply absurd, as the company as a whole is massive and far removed from the areas involved.
So when people start questioning the likes of HiSilicon, or the results of the imaging division or battery research - as you yourself did not long ago - it is frankly absurd too. I provide links. With all due respect you have simply limited yourself to telling people they are wrong but without offering any supporting information beyond your own knowledge. Would you accept it if I did the same?
Huawei is a private company but independently audited just like other companies. There is zero reason to question results.
On the subject at hand, you are now diverging from the feature itself into the quality if the feature. I have no issue with that. It is a valid comment and I agree - to a degree - but that has nothing to do with my point, which is a completely different.
And if this feature really hasn't existed on an iPhone until now, the quality is irrevelant. Even just 'acceptable' results would be good enough (even if purely hit and miss), if the other option was not having the feature at all.
The company is a cheater on a number of levels whether you like it or not. They aren’t cheap shots to bring that out when you bring out your cheap ahots. Why are you here anyway?
there is every reason to question results for every public Chinese company.
Is there a difference between the camera mode you are describing and what Huawei phones have done for years?
The reason I ask is that when they announced the feature I automatically assumed it would be different but what you describe is practically identical to how Huawei phones have operated since the P9. I thought it was already possible on Apple's dual lens phones.
....
Or is not so much what it does as how it does it?
Huawei? Who cares. Do major US network carriers even carry that pos?
So you assume that rest of the world does not matter, huh? Arrogance like that does not pay of. Huiwaei dominates markets elswhere and perhaps instead of being arrogant you may need reality check that those phones as well as Samsung dominate in Europe and Apple iPhone is nowhere near. You should star caring because on competitive markets other vendors build solutions that Apple follows (not leads) and some brainwash seems to be out there that Apple is the only innovator. The fact is that Apple came with few features 9(like biometrics) later than Samsung for example, but Samsung never claimed it was copied by Apple so you assume that Apple was first. Instead of reading only Apple news maye be you should start tracking general technology state. You would be surprized what you did not know and assumed that only one vendor innovates.
Yes we do care about Huwaei, Samsung, LG and Google. Some pople did not review some features and thise dominant on other markets companies already have some stuff that nobody seems here to have a clue about. On top of that some of it is far more practical. Some even say that Pixel 2 photo quality is now top on the market - not Apple iPhones. there will be those now claimin that Aperture mode is so innovative. Well on phones it alreay exist, and it was used on SLR cameras (I used it for years) for decades now. It just got squeezed into smaller package - nothing else.
Apple doesn't have an iPhone under $449, though there may be lower cost models manufacturer for India.
Seriously, do you think that this data makes Apple look bad?
Sure, Apple doesn't cater at all to the under $400 market, where the bulk of Huawei's sales are, but I will state that it is likely that Apple will sell a similar number of XS and XS Max units World Wide by the end of this month, as Huawei has sold of the P20 series since its March release. The P20 Pro isn't a great seller, although Avon B7 has tried to portray it as a great success, with pretty flakey data. Maybe it is. Nonetheless, is a likelihood that Apple will sell 80 to 85 million iPhones next quarter, and about 70% of those, will be the X models.
Being first with niche features is a fool's game, but appropriate for the Android OS device market, where any differentiation at all is a huge marketing necessity. That's likely why we see mostly unbaked innovation in these devices first. Apple, works off of internal roadmap, so these companies, and their customers, as guinea pigs for new features is actually savvy.
Flakey data?
Niche features?
The data on P20 Series sales came straight from Huawei. Official numbers. It has been a massive success.
Aperture Mode is one of the main features on Huawei phones, not a niche feature. Even on my little Honor 10.
I didn't ask this question last week simply because I thought the feature was different. Seeing the description here, and noting that the process is virtually identical, prompted me to ask.
There is no need to go on the defensive.
From the same company that lies about benchmarks?
So please enlighten us. How many P20 or P20 Pro phones has Huawei sold? Why say "massive success" without backing it up with hard data?
Edited: Funny, I went over to Geekbench and don't see any benchmarks for the P20 or P20 Pro anywhere. Geekbench is useful for one other thing besides benchmarks. They require a minimum number of tests before a device gets listed in their charts. This is why you won't see a device in their charts until some time after it launches and enough people have tested it. The Note 9 is also another device that hasn't hit the charts yet, and like last year, I expect it will show up shortly. The iPhone XS and XS Max have both already shown up, meaning there have been a LOT of sales of these devices. And like in years past, the latest iPhone usually shows up a day or two after release.
I'm REALLY curious why the P20/Pro aren't listed. My guess is it hasn't sold as well as Huawei claims.
Huawei had four devices banned for cheating, so whatever data was there, is now gone.
I know 3DMark removed four Huawei devices, but I haven't heard of anyone else removing them (such as Geekbench).
I don't ever visit benchmarking sites so I can't comment on that but 3DMark will reinstate the results in the coming weeks it seems. Huawei will allow users to activate performance mode. Once that is in place, the results should be re-listed.
Badass phone but for $1,100, it should be 128GB and include a 12/18W charger. The latter is a complete joke.
Agree.
I went to my local apple store to buy the 64GB CS Max as it is good enough for as far as capacity goes and they were sold outThe next size is 256GB for extra $150. Ugh! Oh well, I might just get the 256GB if I can’t wait for the 64GB.
Comments
Contrast with that of a camera with mechanical aperture:
I don't have a dual camera iPhone. I just assumed this feature (the one detailed in the video) was already present on those iPhones, hence my surprise and subsequent question
Yes, a tabloid but I did actually read it and the information Eric asked for (plus much more) was actually quoted and cited, making the origin of the piece completely irrelevant.
for the usual uses, Facebook, email, messaging and some online photo sharing sites such as Flik’r, it will be just dandy.
unless you’re kidding about this, don’t believe Shiller’s remarks about professional photography. That’s just his marketing job.
No. I have no connection to Huawei beyond owning a Huawei phone. I also have an iPhone at home (more than one in fact) for which I provide support.
I am perfectly placed to comment on these points because I set off from a neutral position. If you don't like it I am sorry but there is no need to go on the defensive. If you have nothing constructive to offer beyond barbs why not refrain from launching them?
As for this being an Apple site, you are mistaken. Just look at the amount of articles on Samsung, Amazon, Google and sometimes Huawei right here.
I would say AI is Apple centric.
My question was and still is legitimate.
Well, as we all know, Huawei cheats on testing, something I notice you failed to respond to when I posted that to you in a different thread. I wouldn’t be surprised if they lie about other things too. Whether you like it or not, Chinese companies are known to be, shall we say, flexible, in their company reports. A tiny picture also says little about the quality of the effect, as most everything looks good in a small size. At any rate, we need a couple of dozen images of different types to get an idea as to how well these features work overall, because one well selected image might be great, while most others may be crap.
aperture mode has to prove itself. Samsung also has a variable aperture, but images using it are no better than those not using it. We’ve also seen a coup,e of phones using two cameras, one taking luminance images, and the other using color images. Supposedly, much better images result. And indeed, the marketing images shown did look pretty good. But when the phones were out in the “wild”, it turned out that the images were pretty bad. These gimmicks rarely work.
and yes, that evaluation goes for all phones.
I know 3DMark removed four Huawei devices, but I haven't heard of anyone else removing them (such as Geekbench).
Biggest lie I've ever seen on this site.
second of all, as I’ve pointed out in a couple of photography forums, Bokeh is a totally unnatural effect. Lens bokeh is no more natural, or “right” than computational bokeh.
the reason should be pretty obvious, but few people think things through to the end. We, that is, our eyes and brain, NEVER see a scene the way a camera does. Just look around, and you’ll realize that we don’t see bokeh. Our brain keeps us focused on what we’re looking at directly, and defocuses our ATTENTION from what we’re not directly looking at. By defocus, I mean lack of ability to make much sense of the peripheral areas. But we don’t see that bokeh with our eyes.
so bokeh is very unnatural when taken with a camera/lens no matter what. Because of that computational defocus is just as “natural” when compared to our actual vision, as that from a variable aperture lens. And as each lens has different bokeh, and different focal lengths have different bokeh, and different sensor sizes have different bokeh, which one is natural - none of them!
”Who me? I’m just asking a question!”
And those dedicated cameras won’t fit into your pants pocket and don’t have excellent connectivity for sharing, posting, and tweeting immediately. Point? Nobody said smartphones were the same as large cameras. Different devices, different use cases. Obviously.
We’ve all pointed this out to this astroturfer on numerous occasions, he is just forced to ignore it. No script for that.
You will forgive me for simply passing on the subsequent comments which are simply cheap shots aimed at the company - as a whole - because those comments are simply absurd, as the company as a whole is massive and far removed from the areas involved.
So when people start questioning the likes of HiSilicon, or the results of the imaging division or battery research - as you yourself did not long ago - it is frankly absurd too. I provide links. With all due respect you have simply limited yourself to telling people they are wrong but without offering any supporting information beyond your own knowledge. Would you accept it if I did the same?
Huawei is a private company but independently audited just like other companies. There is zero reason to question results.
On the subject at hand, you are now diverging from the feature itself into the quality if the feature. I have no issue with that. It is a valid comment and I agree - to a degree - but that has nothing to do with my point, which is a completely different.
And if this feature really hasn't existed on an iPhone until now, the quality is irrevelant. Even just 'acceptable' results would be good enough (even if purely hit and miss), if the other option was not having the feature at all.
there is every reason to question results for every public Chinese company.
I went to my local apple store to buy the 64GB CS Max as it is good enough for as far as capacity goes and they were sold outThe next size is 256GB for extra $150. Ugh! Oh well, I might just get the 256GB if I can’t wait for the 64GB.