Hands on: Apple's iPhone XR brings color and value to the 2018 lineup

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Comments

  • Reply 101 of 125
    Madtiger said:
    I have a 4K smart TV that cost me about half what I paid for my first flat screen TV. Apple’s iPhone are more expensive because they can be. Apple knows most people aren’t buying the phone outright but paying over time. Adding $200 to the price of the phone doesn’t add that much to a monthly payment.
    Oh man that’s so boneheaded. You must not work with technology... A TV is way less complicated than a minuturized computer. Most TVs are the same commodity panels and little more, while iphones have tons of tech and new layers and things every year.
    So how is Apple able to sell a brand new iPad for $329? How were they able to sell new phones in the past without raising the price? How come the 2010 MacBook Air was better and cheaper than the 2008 model?  
    IPad $329 comes with some compromises...non-laminated display (less anti-reflection) and 2 years old processor.  And this is why iPad Pro is so much more expensive.
    What compromises did the 2010 MacBook Air have over the 2008 model? If a new retina MacBook is announced next week do you think it should be more expensive than the current model? Because some here seem to be arguing that when Apple introduces a new product it should be more expensive than the product it’s replacing.
    But then again, Apple kept the price exactly the same with the 2018 iPhone Xs vs. 2017 X...despite Xs having superior camera and chipset...and other smaller improvements.  So, how do you explain that?  
  • Reply 102 of 125

    Madtiger said:
    I have a 4K smart TV that cost me about half what I paid for my first flat screen TV. Apple’s iPhone are more expensive because they can be. Apple knows most people aren’t buying the phone outright but paying over time. Adding $200 to the price of the phone doesn’t add that much to a monthly payment.
    Oh man that’s so boneheaded. You must not work with technology... A TV is way less complicated than a minuturized computer. Most TVs are the same commodity panels and little more, while iphones have tons of tech and new layers and things every year.
    So how is Apple able to sell a brand new iPad for $329? How were they able to sell new phones in the past without raising the price? How come the 2010 MacBook Air was better and cheaper than the 2008 model?  
    IPad $329 comes with some compromises...non-laminated display (less anti-reflection) and 2 years old processor.  And this is why iPad Pro is so much more expensive.
    What compromises did the 2010 MacBook Air have over the 2008 model? If a new retina MacBook is announced next week do you think it should be more expensive than the current model? Because some here seem to be arguing that when Apple introduces a new product it should be more expensive than the product it’s replacing.
    How do you explain iPhone Xs costing the same as iPhone X despite Xs being a pretty big improvement?
    bb-15
  • Reply 103 of 125
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,700member
    Madtiger said:
    I have a 4K smart TV that cost me about half what I paid for my first flat screen TV. Apple’s iPhone are more expensive because they can be. Apple knows most people aren’t buying the phone outright but paying over time. Adding $200 to the price of the phone doesn’t add that much to a monthly payment.
    Oh man that’s so boneheaded. You must not work with technology... A TV is way less complicated than a minuturized computer. Most TVs are the same commodity panels and little more, while iphones have tons of tech and new layers and things every year.
    So how is Apple able to sell a brand new iPad for $329? How were they able to sell new phones in the past without raising the price? How come the 2010 MacBook Air was better and cheaper than the 2008 model?  
    IPad $329 comes with some compromises...non-laminated display (less anti-reflection) and 2 years old processor.  And this is why iPad Pro is so much more expensive.
    What compromises did the 2010 MacBook Air have over the 2008 model? If a new retina MacBook is announced next week do you think it should be more expensive than the current model? Because some here seem to be arguing that when Apple introduces a new product it should be more expensive than the product it’s replacing.
    As of right now, a MS Surface Laptop 2 with 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, Core i5 quad-core CPU, and a 13.5" 201PPI PixelSense Display goes for $999 USD.  That is the base model.  That is the level of specs & price Apple should look at to be competitive.
  • Reply 104 of 125
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    MplsP said:
    guscat said:
    lenn said:
    Unless I desperately needed a new iPhone right now I'd hold off till the 5G capable iPhones come out.
    MacPro said:
    ireland said:
    At €879 for a 64 GB LCD iPhone, I'm going to say it does not bring value. What it does however it bring the price of iPhones higher than last year. Higher and higher. What Apple has actually done in the past two years is of benefit mostly to shareholders. And the spoiled kids of rich people.
    Good news! The iPhone 7 is what, $499? "Value" very much depends on who's making the assessment.
    Mike great review ... but it leaves me with more questions than answers,  I really like my iPhone 7 Plus and wonder if this is worth an upgrade? Cost isn't an issue I just don't buy things I don't need and all I do is read Safari and Mail when in waiting rooms or use it as a phone (quaint eh? lol) although truth be told I use my Watch more for that these days and an Watch v4 is on the way.  The iPhone's man use for me is wirelessly pairing and enabling my Car Play to be honest.  Now, on the other hand, a new Mac Pro is a definite yes.  I carry my Sony A7 III most everywhere so I'm not worried about camera features on a phone either.  So ...  I am trying hard to think of a reason to go for a newer model iPhone.  I suspect once it can't run the lastest iOS that will be my trigger.
    Yes, with iPhones lasting longer now -- getting away from the 2 year cycle, who wants to sink a grand into soon to be obsolete technology?  

    Perhaps this is where Apple's Upgrade/leasing program provides a real advantage?
    Even if 5G proves to be every bit as good as the phone companies suggest it will be, there's little reason to think it will be available so quickly that it will make phones bought today obsolete.
    This. Most estimates say it will be at *least* 2 years before its widely available. Beyond that, I have yet to see any compelling reason to think 5G will give a significant benefit to the average cell phone user beyond 4G LTE. I think it’s more an issue of having a phone that *has* the capability rather than actually having the ability to use the capability. 
    You just said it:     5G will be available on 2 years.   So, for those who keep a phone longer than 2 years (and that number is likely to grow) there is a benefit.
  • Reply 105 of 125
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    MplsP said:
    So I just left the Apple store after looking at the Xs and the Xr. They have them strategically placed on separate tables on opposite sides of the store (intentionally, according to one of the sales people,) so it’s impossible to make a direct side by side comparison, but after going back and forth a couple times, I think the vast majority of people would have a very difficult time noticing any difference in day to day use. 

    Just like Ike there are some audiophiles for whom a $5000 amp actually does make a difference, I’m sure there are some people that will notice the difference, but I’m willing to bet that there are far more people who pay more because they want a better display but would never notice the difference. 
    Last year, when comparing the X to the 8, I could see a difference when watching videos, but otherwise the screens looks pretty much the same to me.
  • Reply 106 of 125
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    MplsP said:
    guscat said:
    lenn said:
    Unless I desperately needed a new iPhone right now I'd hold off till the 5G capable iPhones come out.
    MacPro said:
    ireland said:
    At €879 for a 64 GB LCD iPhone, I'm going to say it does not bring value. What it does however it bring the price of iPhones higher than last year. Higher and higher. What Apple has actually done in the past two years is of benefit mostly to shareholders. And the spoiled kids of rich people.
    Good news! The iPhone 7 is what, $499? "Value" very much depends on who's making the assessment.
    Mike great review ... but it leaves me with more questions than answers,  I really like my iPhone 7 Plus and wonder if this is worth an upgrade? Cost isn't an issue I just don't buy things I don't need and all I do is read Safari and Mail when in waiting rooms or use it as a phone (quaint eh? lol) although truth be told I use my Watch more for that these days and an Watch v4 is on the way.  The iPhone's man use for me is wirelessly pairing and enabling my Car Play to be honest.  Now, on the other hand, a new Mac Pro is a definite yes.  I carry my Sony A7 III most everywhere so I'm not worried about camera features on a phone either.  So ...  I am trying hard to think of a reason to go for a newer model iPhone.  I suspect once it can't run the lastest iOS that will be my trigger.
    Yes, with iPhones lasting longer now -- getting away from the 2 year cycle, who wants to sink a grand into soon to be obsolete technology?  

    Perhaps this is where Apple's Upgrade/leasing program provides a real advantage?
    Even if 5G proves to be every bit as good as the phone companies suggest it will be, there's little reason to think it will be available so quickly that it will make phones bought today obsolete.
    This. Most estimates say it will be at *least* 2 years before its widely available. Beyond that, I have yet to see any compelling reason to think 5G will give a significant benefit to the average cell phone user beyond 4G LTE. I think it’s more an issue of having a phone that *has* the capability rather than actually having the ability to use the capability. 
    You just said it:     5G will be available on 2 years.   So, for those who keep a phone longer than 2 years (and that number is likely to grow) there is a benefit.
    There's no real 5G standard in the US yet, and 5G modems are in their infancy. 50/50 in the 2019 iPhone, and I think that the 2020 iPhone is the most likely year to have it after some things shake out and the network is built out more.
    canukstormtmay
  • Reply 107 of 125
    Well I guess at the end of the day the XR is a reasonable way to save money if you want an X like experience but are not willing to pay the 999+ fee.  The tech you get is a compromise , reflected in the price (still expensive in my opinion). 
    Interesting that they chose the screen and size  as the main differentiator to the XS and not the CPU. I guess they want the most visible aspects to be ever present as the main differentiator to push people to the XS / XS Max if they can. Or maybe they make more margins on the XR. Who knows. 
    Sounds like there is a boat load of people out there though that either can’t tell the difference in screen quality/resolution or just don’t care. 
    I went for the XS mostly due to size (perfect one handed operation) and the display was as good as my S9 Plus I came from so the difference in cost between the XR and XS was worth it for me.  Apples approach to data and privacy was also a key reason I switched from Android back to Apple. 

    The wife wants a new phone (she has a 7) but the XR is too big. The XS , too expensive, the 8, not enough of an upgrade. She is waiting it out this year. A discounted original X might fit the bill though. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 108 of 125
    lewchenko said:
    Well I guess at the end of the day the XR is a reasonable way to save money if you want an X like experience but are not willing to pay the 999+ fee.  The tech you get is a compromise , reflected in the price (still expensive in my opinion). 
    Interesting that they chose the screen and size  as the main differentiator to the XS and not the CPU. I guess they want the most visible aspects to be ever present as the main differentiator to push people to the XS / XS Max if they can. Or maybe they make more margins on the XR. Who knows. 
    Sounds like there is a boat load of people out there though that either can’t tell the difference in screen quality/resolution or just don’t care. 
    I went for the XS mostly due to size (perfect one handed operation) and the display was as good as my S9 Plus I came from so the difference in cost between the XR and XS was worth it for me.  Apples approach to data and privacy was also a key reason I switched from Android back to Apple. 

    The wife wants a new phone (she has a 7) but the XR is too big. The XS , too expensive, the 8, not enough of an upgrade. She is waiting it out this year. A discounted original X might fit the bill though. 
    If you had to launch a cheaper version of XS Max, what features would you strip down? Ditching the  telephoto lens, good candidate but that wouldn't reduce the price so much and the price difference then being small, obviously people would buy the full XS Max. Ditching both the OLED AND the telephoto lens would be a good compromise however, since people can live as comfortably with LCD as with the OLED and as comfortably with single lens as with double lens. There, you got a significant price cut !... You're a good businessman !...

    The XR offers all the mainstream functions of XS Max. Larger display area: check (yes, XR offers larger display area than the X and XS: 414 x 896 points vs 375 x 812, exactly the same display area as the XS Max)  A12: check. Face ID: check. New image signal processor: check, check and check... Uncheck OLED and the telephoto. and get an XS Max with an affordable price...

    StrangeDays
  • Reply 109 of 125
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    MplsP said:
    guscat said:
    lenn said:
    Unless I desperately needed a new iPhone right now I'd hold off till the 5G capable iPhones come out.
    MacPro said:
    ireland said:
    At €879 for a 64 GB LCD iPhone, I'm going to say it does not bring value. What it does however it bring the price of iPhones higher than last year. Higher and higher. What Apple has actually done in the past two years is of benefit mostly to shareholders. And the spoiled kids of rich people.
    Good news! The iPhone 7 is what, $499? "Value" very much depends on who's making the assessment.
    Mike great review ... but it leaves me with more questions than answers,  I really like my iPhone 7 Plus and wonder if this is worth an upgrade? Cost isn't an issue I just don't buy things I don't need and all I do is read Safari and Mail when in waiting rooms or use it as a phone (quaint eh? lol) although truth be told I use my Watch more for that these days and an Watch v4 is on the way.  The iPhone's man use for me is wirelessly pairing and enabling my Car Play to be honest.  Now, on the other hand, a new Mac Pro is a definite yes.  I carry my Sony A7 III most everywhere so I'm not worried about camera features on a phone either.  So ...  I am trying hard to think of a reason to go for a newer model iPhone.  I suspect once it can't run the lastest iOS that will be my trigger.
    Yes, with iPhones lasting longer now -- getting away from the 2 year cycle, who wants to sink a grand into soon to be obsolete technology?  

    Perhaps this is where Apple's Upgrade/leasing program provides a real advantage?
    Even if 5G proves to be every bit as good as the phone companies suggest it will be, there's little reason to think it will be available so quickly that it will make phones bought today obsolete.
    This. Most estimates say it will be at *least* 2 years before its widely available. Beyond that, I have yet to see any compelling reason to think 5G will give a significant benefit to the average cell phone user beyond 4G LTE. I think it’s more an issue of having a phone that *has* the capability rather than actually having the ability to use the capability. 
    You just said it:     5G will be available on 2 years.   So, for those who keep a phone longer than 2 years (and that number is likely to grow) there is a benefit.
    There's no real 5G standard in the US yet, and 5G modems are in their infancy. 50/50 in the 2019 iPhone, and I think that the 2020 iPhone is the most likely year to have it after some things shake out and the network is built out more.
    I agree with your 50/50 -- it is likely to be a selling point on the higher end phones.   If, for no other reason than Apple has adopted a policy of selling both new and previous models (at a discount).   So that, if nothing else, would make it 50/50 (although, admittedly, I don't know what their unit sales look like.)

    As for a standard.   Have we ever had that in cellular technology in any meaningful way?   We're still dealing with the GSM vs CDMA nonsense -- and the Xr doesn't even advertise a SIM-Free/Carrier Independent option.  So we may be going back to the future.   And now with deregulation driving things, I suspect that that may be even more of an issue.

    And:
    Are you suggesting Apple should wait for a standard to arise or wide network availability before producing a 5G capable phone?   That sounds like a bad idea to me.  Android will eat them alive on that -- their manufacturers can release new phones whenever they want to keep up with technology.   I would hate to see iPhones fall behind like the Mac lines have.
  • Reply 110 of 125
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,927member
    MplsP said:
    guscat said:
    lenn said:
    Unless I desperately needed a new iPhone right now I'd hold off till the 5G capable iPhones come out.
    MacPro said:
    ireland said:
    At €879 for a 64 GB LCD iPhone, I'm going to say it does not bring value. What it does however it bring the price of iPhones higher than last year. Higher and higher. What Apple has actually done in the past two years is of benefit mostly to shareholders. And the spoiled kids of rich people.
    Good news! The iPhone 7 is what, $499? "Value" very much depends on who's making the assessment.
    Mike great review ... but it leaves me with more questions than answers,  I really like my iPhone 7 Plus and wonder if this is worth an upgrade? Cost isn't an issue I just don't buy things I don't need and all I do is read Safari and Mail when in waiting rooms or use it as a phone (quaint eh? lol) although truth be told I use my Watch more for that these days and an Watch v4 is on the way.  The iPhone's man use for me is wirelessly pairing and enabling my Car Play to be honest.  Now, on the other hand, a new Mac Pro is a definite yes.  I carry my Sony A7 III most everywhere so I'm not worried about camera features on a phone either.  So ...  I am trying hard to think of a reason to go for a newer model iPhone.  I suspect once it can't run the lastest iOS that will be my trigger.
    Yes, with iPhones lasting longer now -- getting away from the 2 year cycle, who wants to sink a grand into soon to be obsolete technology?  

    Perhaps this is where Apple's Upgrade/leasing program provides a real advantage?
    Even if 5G proves to be every bit as good as the phone companies suggest it will be, there's little reason to think it will be available so quickly that it will make phones bought today obsolete.
    This. Most estimates say it will be at *least* 2 years before its widely available. Beyond that, I have yet to see any compelling reason to think 5G will give a significant benefit to the average cell phone user beyond 4G LTE. I think it’s more an issue of having a phone that *has* the capability rather than actually having the ability to use the capability. 
    You just said it:     5G will be available on 2 years.   So, for those who keep a phone longer than 2 years (and that number is likely to grow) there is a benefit.
    There's no real 5G standard in the US yet, and 5G modems are in their infancy. 50/50 in the 2019 iPhone, and I think that the 2020 iPhone is the most likely year to have it after some things shake out and the network is built out more.
    I agree with your 50/50 -- it is likely to be a selling point on the higher end phones.   If, for no other reason than Apple has adopted a policy of selling both new and previous models (at a discount).   So that, if nothing else, would make it 50/50 (although, admittedly, I don't know what their unit sales look like.)

    As for a standard.   Have we ever had that in cellular technology in any meaningful way?   We're still dealing with the GSM vs CDMA nonsense -- and the Xr doesn't even advertise a SIM-Free/Carrier Independent option.  So we may be going back to the future.   And now with deregulation driving things, I suspect that that may be even more of an issue.

    And:
    Are you suggesting Apple should wait for a standard to arise or wide network availability before producing a 5G capable phone?   That sounds like a bad idea to me.  Android will eat them alive on that -- their manufacturers can release new phones whenever they want to keep up with technology.   I would hate to see iPhones fall behind like the Mac lines have.
    Mike is exactly right. Are there even any cellular 5G modems available at this point? Qualcomm has announced one that will hopefully be ready in time for next year. And then what you get is a first generation chip. Apple has historically not gone with first generation chips for good reason - the power/performance specs typically jump considerably with the 2nd or third gen chips. 

    As for your standards argument, GSM vs CDMA is a completely different issue and a false comparison. 

    As I said in the past, the availability of mobile 5G is currently non-existant for all intents and purposes and will hopefully be coming next year, if you believe the carriers’ timelines. That’s a big if. Actual performance remains to be seen and true demand is also an unknown. Any manufacturer making the jump to 5G at this point is taking a significant risk that the performance, compatibility and demand will actually justify the cost of the equipment, development and licensing.
  • Reply 111 of 125
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    guscat said:
    lenn said:
    Unless I desperately needed a new iPhone right now I'd hold off till the 5G capable iPhones come out.
    MacPro said:
    ireland said:
    At €879 for a 64 GB LCD iPhone, I'm going to say it does not bring value. What it does however it bring the price of iPhones higher than last year. Higher and higher. What Apple has actually done in the past two years is of benefit mostly to shareholders. And the spoiled kids of rich people.
    Good news! The iPhone 7 is what, $499? "Value" very much depends on who's making the assessment.
    Mike great review ... but it leaves me with more questions than answers,  I really like my iPhone 7 Plus and wonder if this is worth an upgrade? Cost isn't an issue I just don't buy things I don't need and all I do is read Safari and Mail when in waiting rooms or use it as a phone (quaint eh? lol) although truth be told I use my Watch more for that these days and an Watch v4 is on the way.  The iPhone's man use for me is wirelessly pairing and enabling my Car Play to be honest.  Now, on the other hand, a new Mac Pro is a definite yes.  I carry my Sony A7 III most everywhere so I'm not worried about camera features on a phone either.  So ...  I am trying hard to think of a reason to go for a newer model iPhone.  I suspect once it can't run the lastest iOS that will be my trigger.
    Yes, with iPhones lasting longer now -- getting away from the 2 year cycle, who wants to sink a grand into soon to be obsolete technology?  

    Perhaps this is where Apple's Upgrade/leasing program provides a real advantage?
    Even if 5G proves to be every bit as good as the phone companies suggest it will be, there's little reason to think it will be available so quickly that it will make phones bought today obsolete.
    This. Most estimates say it will be at *least* 2 years before its widely available. Beyond that, I have yet to see any compelling reason to think 5G will give a significant benefit to the average cell phone user beyond 4G LTE. I think it’s more an issue of having a phone that *has* the capability rather than actually having the ability to use the capability. 
    You just said it:     5G will be available on 2 years.   So, for those who keep a phone longer than 2 years (and that number is likely to grow) there is a benefit.
    There's no real 5G standard in the US yet, and 5G modems are in their infancy. 50/50 in the 2019 iPhone, and I think that the 2020 iPhone is the most likely year to have it after some things shake out and the network is built out more.
    I agree with your 50/50 -- it is likely to be a selling point on the higher end phones.   If, for no other reason than Apple has adopted a policy of selling both new and previous models (at a discount).   So that, if nothing else, would make it 50/50 (although, admittedly, I don't know what their unit sales look like.)

    As for a standard.   Have we ever had that in cellular technology in any meaningful way?   We're still dealing with the GSM vs CDMA nonsense -- and the Xr doesn't even advertise a SIM-Free/Carrier Independent option.  So we may be going back to the future.   And now with deregulation driving things, I suspect that that may be even more of an issue.

    And:
    Are you suggesting Apple should wait for a standard to arise or wide network availability before producing a 5G capable phone?   That sounds like a bad idea to me.  Android will eat them alive on that -- their manufacturers can release new phones whenever they want to keep up with technology.   I would hate to see iPhones fall behind like the Mac lines have.
    Mike is exactly right. Are there even any cellular 5G modems available at this point? Qualcomm has announced one that will hopefully be ready in time for next year. And then what you get is a first generation chip. Apple has historically not gone with first generation chips for good reason - the power/performance specs typically jump considerably with the 2nd or third gen chips. 

    As for your standards argument, GSM vs CDMA is a completely different issue and a false comparison. 

    As I said in the past, the availability of mobile 5G is currently non-existant for all intents and purposes and will hopefully be coming next year, if you believe the carriers’ timelines. That’s a big if. Actual performance remains to be seen and true demand is also an unknown. Any manufacturer making the jump to 5G at this point is taking a significant risk that the performance, compatibility and demand will actually justify the cost of the equipment, development and licensing.
    Your arguments hold weight if you're buying a phone to keep for a year or so.   Less so if you're buying for the longer term.

    It may be true that we won't have either 5G or 5G modems a year from now.   Or, it may not.  Right now, either is speculation -- but we know that they're on their way.  There is as much reason to expect the first editions in 12 months as in 24 or 36.  

    But to buy a phone without it once it's available would be as dumb as buying a phone with 4G after LTE was available.   Maybe worse if the hype is accurate.
  • Reply 112 of 125
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,877member
    MplsP said:
    guscat said:
    lenn said:
    Unless I desperately needed a new iPhone right now I'd hold off till the 5G capable iPhones come out.
    MacPro said:
    ireland said:
    At €879 for a 64 GB LCD iPhone, I'm going to say it does not bring value. What it does however it bring the price of iPhones higher than last year. Higher and higher. What Apple has actually done in the past two years is of benefit mostly to shareholders. And the spoiled kids of rich people.
    Good news! The iPhone 7 is what, $499? "Value" very much depends on who's making the assessment.
    Mike great review ... but it leaves me with more questions than answers,  I really like my iPhone 7 Plus and wonder if this is worth an upgrade? Cost isn't an issue I just don't buy things I don't need and all I do is read Safari and Mail when in waiting rooms or use it as a phone (quaint eh? lol) although truth be told I use my Watch more for that these days and an Watch v4 is on the way.  The iPhone's man use for me is wirelessly pairing and enabling my Car Play to be honest.  Now, on the other hand, a new Mac Pro is a definite yes.  I carry my Sony A7 III most everywhere so I'm not worried about camera features on a phone either.  So ...  I am trying hard to think of a reason to go for a newer model iPhone.  I suspect once it can't run the lastest iOS that will be my trigger.
    Yes, with iPhones lasting longer now -- getting away from the 2 year cycle, who wants to sink a grand into soon to be obsolete technology?  

    Perhaps this is where Apple's Upgrade/leasing program provides a real advantage?
    Even if 5G proves to be every bit as good as the phone companies suggest it will be, there's little reason to think it will be available so quickly that it will make phones bought today obsolete.
    This. Most estimates say it will be at *least* 2 years before its widely available. Beyond that, I have yet to see any compelling reason to think 5G will give a significant benefit to the average cell phone user beyond 4G LTE. I think it’s more an issue of having a phone that *has* the capability rather than actually having the ability to use the capability. 
    You just said it:     5G will be available on 2 years.   So, for those who keep a phone longer than 2 years (and that number is likely to grow) there is a benefit.
    There's no real 5G standard in the US yet, and 5G modems are in their infancy. 50/50 in the 2019 iPhone, and I think that the 2020 iPhone is the most likely year to have it after some things shake out and the network is built out more.
    Are you suggesting Apple should wait for a standard to arise or wide network availability before producing a 5G capable phone?   That sounds like a bad idea to me.  Android will eat them alive on that -- their manufacturers can release new phones whenever they want to keep up with technology.   I would hate to see iPhones fall behind like the Mac lines have.
    You’re high - android won’t eat anybody alive, as it doesn’t make much money. Lots of forks in china to pump that hollow market share metric, tho. 

    Apple wasn’t quick to adapt NFC or LTE either, they pick it up when it’s stable, not when it’s unformed. 
    edited October 2018 MplsP
  • Reply 113 of 125
    MacPro said:
    ireland said:
    At €879 for a 64 GB LCD iPhone, I'm going to say it does not bring value. What it does however it bring the price of iPhones higher than last year. Higher and higher. What Apple has actually done in the past two years is of benefit mostly to shareholders. And the spoiled kids of rich people.
    Good news! The iPhone 7 is what, $499? "Value" very much depends on who's making the assessment.
    Mike great review ... but it leaves me with more questions than answers,  I really like my iPhone 7 Plus and wonder if this is worth an upgrade? Cost isn't an issue I just don't buy things I don't need and all I do is read Safari and Mail when in waiting rooms or use it as a phone (quaint eh? lol) although truth be told I use my Watch more for that these days and an Watch v4 is on the way.  The iPhone's man use for me is wirelessly pairing and enabling my Car Play to be honest.  Now, on the other hand, a new Mac Pro is a definite yes.  I carry my Sony A7 III most everywhere so I'm not worried about camera features on a phone either.  So ...  I am trying hard to think of a reason to go for a newer model iPhone.  I suspect once it can't run the lastest iOS that will be my trigger.
    Even my 12 year old grandson feels that way!
    When I offered to buy him an X_  he was rather indifferent about it saying his iPhone 7 is working fine.

    (My offer to him has since been rescinded for the same reason:  I made the offer because my 6+ was performing poorly and needed replaced, but now that Apple replaced it with a new 6+ it's now running really, really well.   So, I too have a phone that simply doesn't need replacing.)
    Funny! I was looking at two XRs for us but I discovered the Apple quiet warranty on both my 7 “no service” issue and wife’s 6S+ “quiet warranty “ on the battery issue. They work great for the first time ever and see no need to upgrade. We aren’t going to do a payroll spreadsheet on a phone.
    edited October 2018 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 114 of 125
    Madtiger said:
    Madtiger said:
    I have a 4K smart TV that cost me about half what I paid for my first flat screen TV. Apple’s iPhone are more expensive because they can be. Apple knows most people aren’t buying the phone outright but paying over time. Adding $200 to the price of the phone doesn’t add that much to a monthly payment.
    Oh man that’s so boneheaded. You must not work with technology... A TV is way less complicated than a minuturized computer. Most TVs are the same commodity panels and little more, while iphones have tons of tech and new layers and things every year.
    So how is Apple able to sell a brand new iPad for $329? How were they able to sell new phones in the past without raising the price? How come the 2010 MacBook Air was better and cheaper than the 2008 model?  
    IPad $329 comes with some compromises...non-laminated display (less anti-reflection) and 2 years old processor.  And this is why iPad Pro is so much more expensive.
    What compromises did the 2010 MacBook Air have over the 2008 model? If a new retina MacBook is announced next week do you think it should be more expensive than the current model? Because some here seem to be arguing that when Apple introduces a new product it should be more expensive than the product it’s replacing.
    But then again, Apple kept the price exactly the same with the 2018 iPhone Xs vs. 2017 X...despite Xs having superior camera and chipset...and other smaller improvements.  So, how do you explain that?  
    I explain that the way Apple improved the iPhone with Retina display, Touch ID, 3D Touch and always improving SoC but the price not increasing. Of course that was back in the day when iPhone sales growth was still huge. 
  • Reply 115 of 125

    Madtiger said:
    I have a 4K smart TV that cost me about half what I paid for my first flat screen TV. Apple’s iPhone are more expensive because they can be. Apple knows most people aren’t buying the phone outright but paying over time. Adding $200 to the price of the phone doesn’t add that much to a monthly payment.
    Oh man that’s so boneheaded. You must not work with technology... A TV is way less complicated than a minuturized computer. Most TVs are the same commodity panels and little more, while iphones have tons of tech and new layers and things every year.
    So how is Apple able to sell a brand new iPad for $329? How were they able to sell new phones in the past without raising the price? How come the 2010 MacBook Air was better and cheaper than the 2008 model?  
    IPad $329 comes with some compromises...non-laminated display (less anti-reflection) and 2 years old processor.  And this is why iPad Pro is so much more expensive.
    What compromises did the 2010 MacBook Air have over the 2008 model? If a new retina MacBook is announced next week do you think it should be more expensive than the current model? Because some here seem to be arguing that when Apple introduces a new product it should be more expensive than the product it’s replacing.
    As of right now, a MS Surface Laptop 2 with 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, Core i5 quad-core CPU, and a 13.5" 201PPI PixelSense Display goes for $999 USD.  That is the base model.  That is the level of specs & price Apple should look at to be competitive.
    What is Microsoft attempting to compete with with that laptop? I’ve always thought Microsoft priced their hardware so as to not take much share from its OEMs. And to give the appearance of being a premium device. Who is the target with a $999 Apple laptop? Seems expensive for schools and students. Or are they supposed to use iPads?
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 116 of 125
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,700member

    Madtiger said:
    I have a 4K smart TV that cost me about half what I paid for my first flat screen TV. Apple’s iPhone are more expensive because they can be. Apple knows most people aren’t buying the phone outright but paying over time. Adding $200 to the price of the phone doesn’t add that much to a monthly payment.
    Oh man that’s so boneheaded. You must not work with technology... A TV is way less complicated than a minuturized computer. Most TVs are the same commodity panels and little more, while iphones have tons of tech and new layers and things every year.
    So how is Apple able to sell a brand new iPad for $329? How were they able to sell new phones in the past without raising the price? How come the 2010 MacBook Air was better and cheaper than the 2008 model?  
    IPad $329 comes with some compromises...non-laminated display (less anti-reflection) and 2 years old processor.  And this is why iPad Pro is so much more expensive.
    What compromises did the 2010 MacBook Air have over the 2008 model? If a new retina MacBook is announced next week do you think it should be more expensive than the current model? Because some here seem to be arguing that when Apple introduces a new product it should be more expensive than the product it’s replacing.
    As of right now, a MS Surface Laptop 2 with 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, Core i5 quad-core CPU, and a 13.5" 201PPI PixelSense Display goes for $999 USD.  That is the base model.  That is the level of specs & price Apple should look at to be competitive.
    What is Microsoft attempting to compete with with that laptop? I’ve always thought Microsoft priced their hardware so as to not take much share from its OEMs. And to give the appearance of being a premium device. Who is the target with a $999 Apple laptop? Seems expensive for schools and students. Or are they supposed to use iPads?
    MS has always been clear, if you watch their product keynotes, that they compete with Apple's product lineup, be it iPad Pro or MBA / MBP.  As far as the target for a $999 Apple laptop, it's mostly Grade 11 / 12 / post-secondary students. Here's a great article from someone that works in deploying / maintaining IT infrastructure in an education setting:

    https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/27/the-laptop-i-hope-apple-announces-at-upcoming-event/
  • Reply 117 of 125
    Madtiger said:
    Madtiger said:
    I have a 4K smart TV that cost me about half what I paid for my first flat screen TV. Apple’s iPhone are more expensive because they can be. Apple knows most people aren’t buying the phone outright but paying over time. Adding $200 to the price of the phone doesn’t add that much to a monthly payment.
    Oh man that’s so boneheaded. You must not work with technology... A TV is way less complicated than a minuturized computer. Most TVs are the same commodity panels and little more, while iphones have tons of tech and new layers and things every year.
    So how is Apple able to sell a brand new iPad for $329? How were they able to sell new phones in the past without raising the price? How come the 2010 MacBook Air was better and cheaper than the 2008 model?  
    IPad $329 comes with some compromises...non-laminated display (less anti-reflection) and 2 years old processor.  And this is why iPad Pro is so much more expensive.
    What compromises did the 2010 MacBook Air have over the 2008 model? If a new retina MacBook is announced next week do you think it should be more expensive than the current model? Because some here seem to be arguing that when Apple introduces a new product it should be more expensive than the product it’s replacing.
    But then again, Apple kept the price exactly the same with the 2018 iPhone Xs vs. 2017 X...despite Xs having superior camera and chipset...and other smaller improvements.  So, how do you explain that?  
    I explain that the way Apple improved the iPhone with Retina display, Touch ID, 3D Touch and always improving SoC but the price not increasing. Of course that was back in the day when iPhone sales growth was still huge. 
    Well, why is Xs same price yet every other tech company (Oneplus, Samsung, etc) have increased their prices year over year?  
  • Reply 118 of 125
    Madtiger said:
    Madtiger said:
    Madtiger said:
    I have a 4K smart TV that cost me about half what I paid for my first flat screen TV. Apple’s iPhone are more expensive because they can be. Apple knows most people aren’t buying the phone outright but paying over time. Adding $200 to the price of the phone doesn’t add that much to a monthly payment.
    Oh man that’s so boneheaded. You must not work with technology... A TV is way less complicated than a minuturized computer. Most TVs are the same commodity panels and little more, while iphones have tons of tech and new layers and things every year.
    So how is Apple able to sell a brand new iPad for $329? How were they able to sell new phones in the past without raising the price? How come the 2010 MacBook Air was better and cheaper than the 2008 model?  
    IPad $329 comes with some compromises...non-laminated display (less anti-reflection) and 2 years old processor.  And this is why iPad Pro is so much more expensive.
    What compromises did the 2010 MacBook Air have over the 2008 model? If a new retina MacBook is announced next week do you think it should be more expensive than the current model? Because some here seem to be arguing that when Apple introduces a new product it should be more expensive than the product it’s replacing.
    But then again, Apple kept the price exactly the same with the 2018 iPhone Xs vs. 2017 X...despite Xs having superior camera and chipset...and other smaller improvements.  So, how do you explain that?  
    I explain that the way Apple improved the iPhone with Retina display, Touch ID, 3D Touch and always improving SoC but the price not increasing. Of course that was back in the day when iPhone sales growth was still huge. 
    Well, why is Xs same price yet every other tech company (Oneplus, Samsung, etc) have increased their prices year over year?  
    Because the X was already more expensive than the competition?
    elijahg
  • Reply 119 of 125
    The price of iPhones is not an issue. This narrative needs to die. The iPhone X was the highest selling phone every week since it launched.  The 7 Plus and 8 Plus outsold the 7 and 8.

    I believe the XS Max will be the highest selling model since it launched. Should get a good idea during the earnings call. Long run the XR may outsell the XS and XS Max but the difference is only ~$17/month (USD) on the iPhone upgrade program bw a XR and a XS Max.  Couple less coffees a month and you have a Max.
    elijahg
  • Reply 120 of 125
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,927member
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    guscat said:
    lenn said:
    Unless I desperately needed a new iPhone right now I'd hold off till the 5G capable iPhones come out.
    MacPro said:
    ireland said:
    At €879 for a 64 GB LCD iPhone, I'm going to say it does not bring value. What it does however it bring the price of iPhones higher than last year. Higher and higher. What Apple has actually done in the past two years is of benefit mostly to shareholders. And the spoiled kids of rich people.
    Good news! The iPhone 7 is what, $499? "Value" very much depends on who's making the assessment.
    Mike great review ... but it leaves me with more questions than answers,  I really like my iPhone 7 Plus and wonder if this is worth an upgrade? Cost isn't an issue I just don't buy things I don't need and all I do is read Safari and Mail when in waiting rooms or use it as a phone (quaint eh? lol) although truth be told I use my Watch more for that these days and an Watch v4 is on the way.  The iPhone's man use for me is wirelessly pairing and enabling my Car Play to be honest.  Now, on the other hand, a new Mac Pro is a definite yes.  I carry my Sony A7 III most everywhere so I'm not worried about camera features on a phone either.  So ...  I am trying hard to think of a reason to go for a newer model iPhone.  I suspect once it can't run the lastest iOS that will be my trigger.
    Yes, with iPhones lasting longer now -- getting away from the 2 year cycle, who wants to sink a grand into soon to be obsolete technology?  

    Perhaps this is where Apple's Upgrade/leasing program provides a real advantage?
    Even if 5G proves to be every bit as good as the phone companies suggest it will be, there's little reason to think it will be available so quickly that it will make phones bought today obsolete.
    This. Most estimates say it will be at *least* 2 years before its widely available. Beyond that, I have yet to see any compelling reason to think 5G will give a significant benefit to the average cell phone user beyond 4G LTE. I think it’s more an issue of having a phone that *has* the capability rather than actually having the ability to use the capability. 
    You just said it:     5G will be available on 2 years.   So, for those who keep a phone longer than 2 years (and that number is likely to grow) there is a benefit.
    There's no real 5G standard in the US yet, and 5G modems are in their infancy. 50/50 in the 2019 iPhone, and I think that the 2020 iPhone is the most likely year to have it after some things shake out and the network is built out more.
    I agree with your 50/50 -- it is likely to be a selling point on the higher end phones.   If, for no other reason than Apple has adopted a policy of selling both new and previous models (at a discount).   So that, if nothing else, would make it 50/50 (although, admittedly, I don't know what their unit sales look like.)

    As for a standard.   Have we ever had that in cellular technology in any meaningful way?   We're still dealing with the GSM vs CDMA nonsense -- and the Xr doesn't even advertise a SIM-Free/Carrier Independent option.  So we may be going back to the future.   And now with deregulation driving things, I suspect that that may be even more of an issue.

    And:
    Are you suggesting Apple should wait for a standard to arise or wide network availability before producing a 5G capable phone?   That sounds like a bad idea to me.  Android will eat them alive on that -- their manufacturers can release new phones whenever they want to keep up with technology.   I would hate to see iPhones fall behind like the Mac lines have.
    Mike is exactly right. Are there even any cellular 5G modems available at this point? Qualcomm has announced one that will hopefully be ready in time for next year. And then what you get is a first generation chip. Apple has historically not gone with first generation chips for good reason - the power/performance specs typically jump considerably with the 2nd or third gen chips. 

    As for your standards argument, GSM vs CDMA is a completely different issue and a false comparison. 

    As I said in the past, the availability of mobile 5G is currently non-existant for all intents and purposes and will hopefully be coming next year, if you believe the carriers’ timelines. That’s a big if. Actual performance remains to be seen and true demand is also an unknown. Any manufacturer making the jump to 5G at this point is taking a significant risk that the performance, compatibility and demand will actually justify the cost of the equipment, development and licensing.
    Your arguments hold weight if you're buying a phone to keep for a year or so.   Less so if you're buying for the longer term.

    It may be true that we won't have either 5G or 5G modems a year from now.   Or, it may not.  Right now, either is speculation -- but we know that they're on their way.  There is as much reason to expect the first editions in 12 months as in 24 or 36.  

    But to buy a phone without it once it's available would be as dumb as buying a phone with 4G after LTE was available.   Maybe worse if the hype is accurate.
    The only people for whom this might be an issue are those who have to buy a phone after some sort of 5G modem becomes available and before Apple includes it. I would wager that most of these people are in the rapid- upgrade camp, and get a new phone every two years ago. For the remainder, waiting another year likely won’t matter. 

    Regardless, I think you have things backwards. The benefit of 5G over LTE for most cel phone users is going to be minimal, if any. 3G to 4G was a much bigger jump in terms of usability. 

    Like strangesays says, there is also a significant benefit to not being an early adopter and waiting until the standards and technology have stabilized. 
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