Apple's powerful new Mac mini perfectly suits the 'Pro' market, yet the complaints have al...

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  • Reply 41 of 189
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 3,229member
    ascii said:
    The answer to the question of whether a company should listen to its customers, or instead take a "we know best" approach, is that it should be we know best with consumers and should listen to pros. And indeed Apple seems to be taking this approach now with the in house team of creative pros giving input in to design, which has been mentioned in the past.
    Particularly with Apple that is an intriguing question -- and it's all Steve's fault!

    A line from the movie (whether true or not) struck me when he said:
    "How do people know what they want if they haven't seen it yet?"

    At the time Steve was creating revolutionary products that were directly aimed at making people's lives better.  But, nobody could understand or appreciate those devices because they had never seen anything like it.  The world simply couldn't conceive of it!

    It was the cutting edge that he rode that made that dilemma possible.
    I would argue that, in terms of Macs, the world has changed.   The market has matured and the ability of anybody to produce a revolutionary product is pretty much nil.  So, for the Mac line, Apple is advised to meet the wants and needs of the consumers rather than tell (or show) them what they want.

    But, that still leaves Apple a LOT of room.  The Apple Watch is wonderful example of that.  The average consumer could have never dreamed of wearing such a device on their wrist.   Apple had to show them.
    entropysascii80s_Apple_Guy
  • Reply 42 of 189
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 3,229member
    I am happy to see Apple paying more attention to the Mac line.

    My feeling and belief is that they let it stagnate and allowed major holes and deficiencies develop in the product line.  While they have seemingly begun to devote more resources to the line, and recent releases are excellent improvements, they still have further to go to bring the overall Mac line up to where it can be and should be.

    Next up:
    - Mac Pro
    - MacBook with an "A" series processor
    - iPad able to work with an eternal keyboard and touchpad
  • Reply 43 of 189
    Well, FWIW I want one, and if I get it, it'll be my sixth, though the last one was a 2011 Mac Mini Server model. ... Just one niggling doubt to wait for when braver people get their hands on it: How good is the cooling / how bad is the thermal throttling / if you actually give the top-end CPU option some real work to do? It looks hopeful...
    dtb200
  • Reply 44 of 189
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,677member
    pakitt said:
    The Mac Mini was launched and intended as an affordable Mac option for migrating PC users to the macOS world. The basic version was less than 500$. It seems that everybody forgets that. Now the Mini is clearly something else. It is not the "most affordable Mac desktop" anymore. Period. The price, the specs, everything indicates their strategy for this product has radically changed. You want an "affordable" Mac? get an iOS iPad/iPhone. macOS for the "masses"? None for you.
    iOS for the masses.  macOS for the high-end market.  That's how it looks like Apple is positioning these platforms.
  • Reply 45 of 189
    rere Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    "It's not touching the fact that you can upgrade to a six-core Intel i7 processor running at 3.2GHz with 64GB RAM and 2TB SSD plus 10 Gigabit Ethernet."

     --- Why would you falsely claim that Mac Mini comes with an i7 CPU option? 

    You can get this as the best option:
    • 3.0GHz 6-core 8th-generation Intel Core i5 processor
    • Turbo Boost up to 4.1GHz
    edited October 31
  • Reply 46 of 189
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 3,689administrator
    re said:
    "It's not touching the fact that you can upgrade to a six-core Intel i7 processor running at 3.2GHz with 64GB RAM and 2TB SSD plus 10 Gigabit Ethernet."

     --- Why would you falsely claim that Mac Mini comes with an i7 CPU option? 

    You can get this as the best option:
    • 3.0GHz 6-core 8th-generation Intel Core i5 processor
    • Turbo Boost up to 4.1GHz
    Might want to check your facts first. This seems pretty clear.


    edited October 31 canukstormandrewj5790williamlondonrandominternetpersonmagman1979fastasleep80s_Apple_Guy
  • Reply 47 of 189
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,677member
    nht said:

    PTSD said:
    Thermodynamics, indeed. 

    I was waiting for the newest Mac Mini to see if that nasty, inefficient case-design had been fixed. It wasn’t, so I bought the most expensive, 27” Retina iMac (not the Pro). 

    I could have gotten the iMac Pro, but it’s rather more than I need, as I drift into retirement. 

    My complaint about the Mac Mini (after owning five of them, all generations) is that they overheat. The one on my desk is sitting on a wire rack in the open air, with a USB-powered fan underneath it.

    Even so, it gets hot periodically, according to SMC Fan Control. Even with the fan manually cranked as fast as it goes. 

    My office and my desk are NOT hot, nor poorly ventilated. I like my A/C, too. The Mac Mini just does not have a good design that allows for good enough airflow, and the chips age quickly as a direct result. 

    I’ve bought my last Mac Mini.  The current one is crashing horribly, and I have to power it down and restart if I want to get any work done.

    I have been a professional Mac consultant since 1985, by the way.  I’ve seen Mac Minis with similar heating issues with dozens of clients. I want a computer that will last me ten years. My Mac Minis tend to last maybe three or four. 
    2x increased airflow.

    My oldest Core2Duo mini still works if I cared to boot it up.  But then I didn't use it as a render farm.

    Given that a six core i7 mini setup with an eGPU and monitor spreads the heat across three components I suspect it'll kick the ass of the 27" Retina iMac for tasks once both heat up.  And why would you want to buy the most expensive non-pro 2017 Kaby Lake iMac in late 2018? 

    $2699 27" iMac: 4.2 GHz Quad Core i7 (4.5GHz Boost), 8GB RAM (upgrade later), 512GB SSD, Radeon Pro 580 w/8GB video

    $1499 Mac Mini: 3.2 GHz Hexa Core i7 (4.6 GHz Boost), 8GB RAM (upgrade later), 512GB SSD
    $699 Blackmagic Radeon Pro 580
    $390 LG 27" 4K IPS monitor
    $110 Keyboard and Mouse

    $2698

    4K and 6 core mini vs 5K and 4 core iMac.  

    I'm actually curious who runs the iMac 5K at full resolution.  I use a 43" 4K TV and I dial it down a notch (3200x1800) for eye comfort.

    Which LG 27" 4K IPS monitor costs that much?
  • Reply 48 of 189
    I think the new mini is a fine machine and probably worth the money (in Apple categories of course - no doubt that you will get away with less in the Windows PC world). However, what people are complaining about ist that the entry level bar to an Apple PC has been raised considerably over time: The initial mini was USD 500 IIRC and now we are at USD 800, even taking into account inflation that's a lot more.
    edited October 31 williamlondonPickUrPoison
  • Reply 49 of 189
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,677member
    philotech said:
    I think the new mini is a fine machine and probably worth the money (in Apple categories of course - no doubt that you will get away with less in the Windows PC world). However, what people are complaining about ist that the entry level bar to an Apple PC has been raised considerably over time: The initial mini was USD 500 IIRC and now we are at USD 800, even taking into account inflation that's a lot more.
    Other than the MBA, Apple is not aiming the Mac at entry-level markets anymore.  Don't be surprised if that becomes more prominent over time.  iOS will be for entry-level markets.
    williamlondontmayfastasleep
  • Reply 50 of 189
    nht said:
    pakitt said:
    The Mac Mini was launched and intended as an affordable Mac option for migrating PC users to the macOS world. The basic version was less than 500$. It seems that everybody forgets that. Now the Mini is clearly something else. It is not the "most affordable Mac desktop" anymore. Period. The price, the specs, everything indicates their strategy for this product has radically changed. You want an "affordable" Mac? get an iOS iPad/iPhone. macOS for the "masses"? None for you.
    It certainly is the "most affordable Mac desktop".  Which iMac is cheaper?  None.

    Your comment is demonstrably wrong.
    I mean, yes, technically.  But I can get a new iMac with the monitor, keyboard and mouse included for $1099 or a more powerful refurbished one from Apple for the same price.  Once you add a monitor (~$200), Apple keyboard ($99) and mouse ($79), you're at $1177 for the new Mac Mini base model.

    So sure, if you either have a monitor, keyboard and mouse already, or you go super cheap on them, you could undercut the iMac.  But if not (such someone coming from an iMac or Apple laptop they'd like to sell to offset the cost of upgrading), you're not really any better off.
    williamlondonrandominternetperson
  • Reply 51 of 189
    And... unsurprisingly the first comment is a complaint about the Mac Pro, and the second starts out “the Mac mini isn’t a bad machine. But... blah blah blah...” Did anyone even read the article? The truth is that people will never be happy and they love to complain. Move to a stupid pc and go complain about them on their forums.
    williamlondonfastasleepPickUrPoison
  • Reply 52 of 189
    This is a hostile, lopsided article that fails to understand users needs.

    I am no Mac Mini enthusiast or buyer, but I can relate to the user’s arguments of a reasonably cost effective Mac for those who aren’t seeking portability and who already own a monitor, keyboard etc. For Apple to slap them with such high prices is not going to go well. There should’ve been a well configured option for $499, then charge whatever  for the pro. They sure know how to pull off such options for the iPad. 
    Actually they’ll sell a ton of them. The product will be successful and the folks who don’t want to pay for the added value will go somewhere else.🤷🏻‍♂️
    magman1979
  • Reply 53 of 189
    I bought one the millisecond the Apple store opened back up. As a semi-pro composer and producer, this is exactly what I was looking for. Went for a 512G SSD. I don't need a large HD it's better to keep files on an external HD and have only the applications and support files on the internal. These are stationary for most people so why not have the choice of so many thunderbolt drives that you can swap out at will? Also went with 8G RAM. I'll get a Crucial 32G for about $300. It's that 6 core i7 that I needed, and the ability to use my own monitors. So $1,499 for a machine with the exact specs I had been hoping for. Really psyched.
    GeorgeBMacrandominternetpersonmagman1979fastasleepPickUrPoison
  • Reply 54 of 189
    Bar said:
    All the announcements were pretty meh to be honest. Wasn’t anything anyone really needed. The only thing I took away from the event is that only affluent people are wanted as the Apple customer. They completely ignored the entry level market with the Mac mini. Won’t be able to recommend Apple products at all to the average individual anymore considering all that most people do is check email and watch cat videos. 
    Don’t worry most people don’t check email anymore, they check Twitter, Facebook, Whatsapp, cat videos don’t come by email. If Apple is not present in that “entry level market” let be it. There is Android and ChromeOS for those.
    edited October 31 magman1979fastasleep
  • Reply 55 of 189
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,606member
    This is a very strange article.  Why is it necessary to attack and belittle people who were complaining about the Mac Mini delay between updates (>1000 days!)?  These are people who are into Apple stuff and want Apple to make better machines; what is the value in this kind of petty "told you so" editorial?  The tone of these pieces seem to have taken a nosedive recently, Apple doesn't need this kind of defence, it further contributes to the image of the smug, petulant Apple fanboy.
    williamlondonGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 56 of 189
    sabonsabon Posts: 133member
    I —-TOTALLY—- get why people are bitching. They wanted both a $499 Mac Mini and a Pro version of a small upgradable machine. Those are two different things and Apple seems to have tried to make something for both when it doesn’t fit either that well. Pro machines NEED 16 GB of RAM. So I would have expected it to start with 16 GB for this price.

    Mac Minis are NOT gaming machines without at LEAST 16 GB of RAM. 16GB of RAM is NOT $200. I go to company X and I can buy TWO 8 GB of RAM for this computer for less than $100 when they want us to pay $200? That’s ***BLEEP***. Start it with 16 GB of RAM for $799. Then for gamers let them buy an eGPU and a better video card.

    As for consumers, they don’t need desktop or laptop computers. Consumers need iPads and Apple should start making it clear that this that people who don’t need to game and don’t need to program they expect them to buy iPads. And iPads start with the iPad Mini at $399 and goes up from there. IPads are the only product that takes people anywhere from very entry level use all the way up to Pro.

    PS: WHERE IS THE iPad for PROGRAMMERS???? Some of us want a machine that has lots of power and is very portable and doesn’t cost $5000. That is the iPad Pro. Except that there is no way, other than Swift Playgrounds, for people to program on an iPad without doing it remotely. I do that now but I would rather be able to do it all on the iPad. Think I’m nuts? That’s what people told me when “real programmers” only programmed on mainframes. They lost their jobs because they couldn’t change and adapt. I’ve always been ahead of the bleeding edge waiting for technology to catch up for 35 years now. 
    edited October 31 williamlondon
  • Reply 57 of 189
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 1,900member
    I think prices went up to much for what you get. $799 for a i3, really? Great Apple finally updated the hardware and then jacked prices up. It should start at $599 at most for that i3. The Mac Mini was suppose to be a way to get a low cost Mac. Now it's a over priced thing. It was never meant to be a PRO type of thing. It's so far from that now with a weak i3 at a $799 starting price point. I don't get it.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 58 of 189
    If Apple is not present in that “entry level market” let be it. There is Android and ChromeOS for those.
    As much as it hurts me (and my pocket book), this is true. I have a 2013 MBP, and I would LOVE that new Macbook Air, but the price is holding me back. I've been complaining to people lately about the ridiculous pricing Apple has of late, but the fact is that's the way they have always been. They let the 'other' companies fight for who can make the least profit, while raking in massive profits. This is actually a good thing, because then you know the products they develop and produce are of excellent quality, being that they have such a huge research and development fund available.
    PickUrPoison
  • Reply 59 of 189
    It's everything I wanted in a Mac Mini, so I have no gripes at all. It's not exactly cheap, but I never expected it would be. The version I want will cost $1700 which will serve me perfectly for the next five years or so as the heart of my 4K UHDTV media center. My only concerns are thermal throttling as my quad-core i7 Mac Mini does. I hope the new Mac Mini has better airflow and a much more powerful fan.
  • Reply 60 of 189
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,199member
    This is an informative article, and an entertaining thread. Lotta business and computer experts here. 

    When I heard about the new mac mini yesterday, I lit off my long dormant one to brainstorm a new use. I've pondered making a headless server out of it, not because I need a headless server, but because I have an old mac mini that works as well as the day it came out of the box. It light right off. And I see it frozen in time on OSX 10.4. With a bit of fiddling, I see why It can't go headless without some help: 10.4 doesn't permit screen sharing, something that requires Apple Remote Desktop, a $80 purchase from Apple, apparently. 10.5 put in the screen sharing as we know it. 

    But the little machine sits ready to roll. I even have a little USB wifi adapter plugged into it. It sites right next to my original iPod that yes, works fine. I just...don't have a use for either. 


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