I Wonder if Angela Ahrendts influace has something to do with whats happening with Apples prices and image of super lux. Product... indtead of value proposition.
I said it months ago. The XR should have had a smaller screen size, pulling the price down to at least 699 with the same profits, maybe even a lower price.
Android phones with screens bigger than the Xr sell for much less than the Xr though. So there's no excusing high prices with feature X or Y.
Some do, some don't. Here's a handful of the flagship Android phones on the T-mobile site, all with comparable prices to iPhones:
And right on cue, the salivating trolls come marching onto EVERY Apple site in existence by the truckload!
Forget trolls. What is your opinion on what is happening on iPhone?
The rest of the business seems to be doing ok. They have a lot of cash reserves to pull on. That won't save them from a roller coaster ride, short term, but iPhone is suffering. Do you agree with TCs line or do you think he is airbrushing bits? Are prices too high? Is competition playing a part? Are iPhones underperforming on features? Etc.
The smartphone market is mature. I can easily afford the top of the line iPhone model, but I see no reason to upgrade from my 7 Plus. I think a lot of people feel this way. Even if Apple dropped prices tomorrow, I still wouldn’t upgrade. My 7 Plus is great. I’d like FaceID, but that’s not enough of a reason to upgrade.
I dont think prices are the issue. There are iPhone models under $500. Top of the line is very pricey, but Apple has nice offerings at several price points. The market is saturated and mature and this was bound to happen.
If price wasn’t an issue why did Tim keep mentioning subsidies going away? Why did he mention not marketing the trade-in program enough? Both of those things scream price issues. Which was obvious when the front page of apple.com was displaying this:
I know many people with older phones and none of them WANT to upgrade. They don’t care about pricing. They are satisfied with their current devices. I was just helping a friend with her Mac today. It’s 8 years old and works fine. She sees no reason to upgrade. The same thing is happening with phones.
As I said, Apple has phone models at a variety of price points. Stop focusing on the top of the line. Phones are mature. The tech is mature. There aren’t a lot of new features. Faster, better screen, better camera...yawn. My phone is fast enough and the camera is fine. The days of annual upgrades are over.
Price is a factor, but it’s not the issue.
I don’t think higher prices is the only factor but it is A factor. It’s not like upgrade cycles just started lengthening this year. It’s possible too that the XR just introduced confusion to the lineup. People weren’t sure what to buy so they didn’t buy anything.
DEAD ON with the XR confusion. A lot of people went into the Apple store prepared to drop $1000+ on a XS and left with a cheaper XR with a larger screen....
Or went into the store and left with nothing. If the XR was doing well why would Apple be marketing it $300 cheaper (with trade-in) on the front page of their website? Why would carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile be offering it for free with new activations?
And right on cue, the salivating trolls come marching onto EVERY Apple site in existence by the truckload!
Forget trolls. What is your opinion on what is happening on iPhone?
The rest of the business seems to be doing ok. They have a lot of cash reserves to pull on. That won't save them from a roller coaster ride, short term, but iPhone is suffering. Do you agree with TCs line or do you think he is airbrushing bits? Are prices too high? Is competition playing a part? Are iPhones underperforming on features? Etc.
The smartphone market is mature. I can easily afford the top of the line iPhone model, but I see no reason to upgrade from my 7 Plus. I think a lot of people feel this way. Even if Apple dropped prices tomorrow, I still wouldn’t upgrade. My 7 Plus is great. I’d like FaceID, but that’s not enough of a reason to upgrade.
I dont think prices are the issue. There are iPhone models under $500. Top of the line is very pricey, but Apple has nice offerings at several price points. The market is saturated and mature and this was bound to happen.
If price wasn’t an issue why did Tim keep mentioning subsidies going away? Why did he mention not marketing the trade-in program enough? Both of those things scream price issues. Which was obvious when the front page of apple.com was displaying this:
I know many people with older phones and none of them WANT to upgrade. They don’t care about pricing. They are satisfied with their current devices. I was just helping a friend with her Mac today. It’s 8 years old and works fine. She sees no reason to upgrade. The same thing is happening with phones.
As I said, Apple has phone models at a variety of price points. Stop focusing on the top of the line. Phones are mature. The tech is mature. There aren’t a lot of new features. Faster, better screen, better camera...yawn. My phone is fast enough and the camera is fine. The days of annual upgrades are over.
Price is a factor, but it’s not the issue.
I don’t think higher prices is the only factor but it is A factor. It’s not like upgrade cycles just started lengthening this year. It’s possible too that the XR just introduced confusion to the lineup. People weren’t sure what to buy so they didn’t buy anything.
That could be, but I think it really comes down to how good these devices have become. We don’t upgrade our computers or any other piece of tech yearly. It’s crazy to buy a new phone every year, especially when there aren’t many new features. Truly new features, not just improved tech. At some point we reach “good enough” and I think that happened with the 7, maybe even the 6s. Upgrade cycles have been getting longer and longer ever since.
If Apple dropped the price of the XS by 20% tomorrow, I doubt it would impact overall sales very much. I think Apple could move more devices with promotions like a free year of Apple Music and/or increased iCloud storage amounts. After the first year, your customer is hooked and keeps paying. The “first world” (I hate that term) is saturated. Dropping prices alone won’t solve the problem. In the “developing” (I hate that term too) world, price is key. They need a cheap, break-even device that brings people into the ecosystem and gets them hooked on services. As much as I hate to think of Apple as a services company, that is the logical source of revenue growth. Recurring monthly charges.
Hate to say it but this tweet is spot on. Probably not a good idea for Cook to partially blame slow iPhone sales on cheaper battery replacements.
Josh Centers (@jcenters)
1/2/19, 5:20 PM
If a $29 battery slows down iPhone sales, then either people were only buying new iPhones because their old ones were getting slower or Apple isn’t producing interesting iPhones.
Bullshit. "only"? Not interesting? Give me a break. You're just excited because so many of these armchair analysts are feeding into your Chicken Little confirmation bias.
Hate on me all you want. The fact is many here were saying nothing to see here everything is fine when we now know that’s not the case.
The cheapest new 2018 iPhone you can get in Canada right now is $1228 with AppleCare ($1375 after tax). $1375... for the bottom of the barrel 2018 phone. The cheapest possible phone you can get is a 7 for $1100.
The iPhone most people would like to have is the Xs 256 - which costs $2058 with AppleCare after tax.
Nice phones? Sure. $2058 nice? lol
Throw in a case and your average data plan cost and you are looking at a 2 year $4500 investment.
$4500 for the new iPhone with the newest features.
Go ahead and try to defend that. Business's can't justify that - so forget about 20 somethings paying off student loans, paying that for dancing poo emoji's and Instagram scrolling. And before you attempt to point to other offerings - nobody wants to pay $1100 for a near obsolete 3 year old iPhone 7.
And right on cue, the salivating trolls come marching onto EVERY Apple site in existence by the truckload!
Forget trolls. What is your opinion on what is happening on iPhone?
The rest of the business seems to be doing ok. They have a lot of cash reserves to pull on. That won't save them from a roller coaster ride, short term, but iPhone is suffering. Do you agree with TCs line or do you think he is airbrushing bits? Are prices too high? Is competition playing a part? Are iPhones underperforming on features? Etc.
The smartphone market is mature. I can easily afford the top of the line iPhone model, but I see no reason to upgrade from my 7 Plus. I think a lot of people feel this way. Even if Apple dropped prices tomorrow, I still wouldn’t upgrade. My 7 Plus is great. I’d like FaceID, but that’s not enough of a reason to upgrade.
I dont think prices are the issue. There are iPhone models under $500. Top of the line is very pricey, but Apple has nice offerings at several price points. The market is saturated and mature and this was bound to happen.
If price wasn’t an issue why did Tim keep mentioning subsidies going away? Why did he mention not marketing the trade-in program enough? Both of those things scream price issues. Which was obvious when the front page of apple.com was displaying this:
I know many people with older phones and none of them WANT to upgrade. They don’t care about pricing. They are satisfied with their current devices. I was just helping a friend with her Mac today. It’s 8 years old and works fine. She sees no reason to upgrade. The same thing is happening with phones.
As I said, Apple has phone models at a variety of price points. Stop focusing on the top of the line. Phones are mature. The tech is mature. There aren’t a lot of new features. Faster, better screen, better camera...yawn. My phone is fast enough and the camera is fine. The days of annual upgrades are over.
Price is a factor, but it’s not the issue.
I don’t think higher prices is the only factor but it is A factor. It’s not like upgrade cycles just started lengthening this year. It’s possible too that the XR just introduced confusion to the lineup. People weren’t sure what to buy so they didn’t buy anything.
DEAD ON with the XR confusion. A lot of people went into the Apple store prepared to drop $1000+ on a XS and left with a cheaper XR with a larger screen....
Or went into the store and left with nothing. If the XR was doing well why would Apple be marketing it $300 cheaper (with trade-in) on the front page of their website? Why would carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile be offering it for free with new activations?
Oh of course. People went in with $1000+ and left with nothing. DOOMED!
The cheapest new 2018 iPhone you can get in Canada right now is $1228 with AppleCare ($1375 after tax). $1375... for the bottom of the barrel 2018 phone. The cheapest possible phone you can get is a 7 for $1100.
The iPhone most people would like to have is the Xs 256 - which costs $2058 with AppleCare after tax.
Nice phones? Sure. $2058 nice? lol
Throw in a case and your average data plan cost and you are looking at a 2 year $4500 investment.
$4500 for the new iPhone with the newest features.
Go ahead and try to defend that. Business's can't justify that - so forget about 20 somethings paying off student loans, paying that for dancing poo emoji's and Instagram scrolling. And before you attempt to point to other offerings - nobody wants to pay $1100 for a near obsolete 3 year old iPhone 7.
It's beyond absurd.
And again you quote the most expensive possible situation. You even threw in AppleCare, a case and a 3rd party data plan for 2 years! lol
Cook kept talking about how far China was off. I wonder about him killing off the SE. That effectively took the lowest cost phone from $350 to $450. That's quite a hike in price. Particularly in China where the the avg price for a smartphone is around $200.
The cheapest new 2018 iPhone you can get in Canada right now is $1228 with AppleCare ($1375 after tax). $1375... for the bottom of the barrel 2018 phone. The cheapest possible phone you can get is a 7 for $1100.
The iPhone most people would like to have is the Xs 256 - which costs $2058 with AppleCare after tax.
Nice phones? Sure. $2058 nice? lol
Throw in a case and your average data plan cost and you are looking at a 2 year $4500 investment.
$4500 for the new iPhone with the newest features.
Go ahead and try to defend that. Business's can't justify that - so forget about 20 somethings paying off student loans, paying that for dancing poo emoji's and Instagram scrolling. And before you attempt to point to other offerings - nobody wants to pay $1100 for a near obsolete 3 year old iPhone 7.
It's beyond absurd.
Strong
U.S.
Dollar
Tim spoke of that as one of the factors in developed countries.
And right on cue, the salivating trolls come marching onto EVERY Apple site in existence by the truckload!
Forget trolls. What is your opinion on what is happening on iPhone?
The rest of the business seems to be doing ok. They have a lot of cash reserves to pull on. That won't save them from a roller coaster ride, short term, but iPhone is suffering. Do you agree with TCs line or do you think he is airbrushing bits? Are prices too high? Is competition playing a part? Are iPhones underperforming on features? Etc.
The smartphone market is mature. I can easily afford the top of the line iPhone model, but I see no reason to upgrade from my 7 Plus. I think a lot of people feel this way. Even if Apple dropped prices tomorrow, I still wouldn’t upgrade. My 7 Plus is great. I’d like FaceID, but that’s not enough of a reason to upgrade.
I dont think prices are the issue. There are iPhone models under $500. Top of the line is very pricey, but Apple has nice offerings at several price points. The market is saturated and mature and this was bound to happen.
If price wasn’t an issue why did Tim keep mentioning subsidies going away? Why did he mention not marketing the trade-in program enough? Both of those things scream price issues. Which was obvious when the front page of apple.com was displaying this:
I know many people with older phones and none of them WANT to upgrade. They don’t care about pricing. They are satisfied with their current devices. I was just helping a friend with her Mac today. It’s 8 years old and works fine. She sees no reason to upgrade. The same thing is happening with phones.
As I said, Apple has phone models at a variety of price points. Stop focusing on the top of the line. Phones are mature. The tech is mature. There aren’t a lot of new features. Faster, better screen, better camera...yawn. My phone is fast enough and the camera is fine. The days of annual upgrades are over.
Price is a factor, but it’s not the issue.
I don’t think higher prices is the only factor but it is A factor. It’s not like upgrade cycles just started lengthening this year. It’s possible too that the XR just introduced confusion to the lineup. People weren’t sure what to buy so they didn’t buy anything.
That could be, but I think it really comes down to how good these devices have become. We don’t upgrade our computers or any other piece of tech yearly. It’s crazy to buy a new phone every year, especially when there aren’t many new features. Truly new features, not just improved tech. At some point we reach “good enough” and I think that happened with the 7, maybe even the 6s. Upgrade cycles have been getting longer and longer ever since.
If Apple dropped the price of the XS by 20% tomorrow, I doubt it would impact overall sales very much. I think Apple could move more devices with promotions like a free year of Apple Music and/or increased iCloud storage amounts. After the first year, your customer is hooked and keeps paying. The “first world” (I hate that term) is saturated. Dropping prices alone won’t solve the problem. In the “developing” (I hate that term too) world, price is key. They need a cheap, break-even device that brings people into the ecosystem and gets them hooked on services. As much as I hate to think of Apple as a services company, that is the logical source of revenue growth. Recurring monthly charges.
You are right that regardless of price increases the upgrade cycle is lengthening. But I still think the price increases had an effect if for no other reason than the narrative around iPhone became about price. And maybe some people would have upgraded but balked when the flagship that used to start at $649 now started at $999. And then this year even the new cheaper model was $100 more than the flagship model was a couple years ago.
Personally I’d like to see Apple move to a good/better/best model for iPhones where good and better aren’t just the previous years phone at a cheaper price. Have 3 new phones that are good value for the money with no confusion over which one to get. The only thing that complicates this idea is size as some people want really big phones and some want an SE sized phone. I would just like to see the line up be clean. And only keep older models around for very price sensitive markets like India.
Rene Ritchie (@reneritchie) 1/2/19, 5:24 PM IMHO, complaints about pricing, price points, home buttons, headphone jacks, batteries, upgrade cycles, etc. are all valid but are also all besides the point, which remains: Can Apple transition iPhone from growth driver to platform that enables more growth drivers? That’s it.
This is pretty spot on. Apple has hundreds of millions of iPhone customers. How do you get those people to buy more things? And what are those things? Clearly they aren't Macs. They are AirPods, however. And Apple Music subscriptions. Video is the logical next step.
As someone who has bought Apple products (and stock) for almost 40 years, I remember many long years where Apple sold 1 device for every 1000 the other guys sold. They struck silver with the iPod and then gold with the iPhone. The iPod appealed to all sorts of people. You didn't have to be a techie. Apple built a better mousetrap and the public responded. And then came the iPhone. Everyone needs a phone. Apple built a better phone and, again, the public responded. So what else has incredibly broad appeal and needs a better use experience? And is Apple even the company to deliver these days? I personally wish they'd focus more on home automation and deliver some killer first party products in that area. I also think they should get serious about audio, maybe buy Sonos. HomePod was a huge miss. I would have bought at least 6 for my house if it wasn't such a gimped product.
I Wonder if Angela Ahrendts influace has something to do with whats happening with Apples prices and image of super lux. Product... indtead of value proposition.
I said it months ago. The XR should have had a smaller screen size, pulling the price down to at least 699 with the same profits, maybe even a lower price.
Android phones with screens bigger than the Xr sell for much less than the Xr though. So there's no excusing high prices with feature X or Y.
Some do, some don't. Here's a handful of the flagship Android phones on the T-mobile site, all with comparable prices to iPhones:
OnePlus 6T
6.4-inch display
Qualcomm Snapdragon 845
Android 9 Pie (pretty close to stock Android) with quick security/OS updates
Considering the only things they announced at the two keynotes all had price increases... the macs of which were both 5 years old on there previous models (sales had likely hit rock bottom on them).
Of course Tim Cook won’t admit it, but those making products actually attractive to buyers will increase sales.
And right on cue, the salivating trolls come marching onto EVERY Apple site in existence by the truckload!
Forget trolls. What is your opinion on what is happening on iPhone?
The rest of the business seems to be doing ok. They have a lot of cash reserves to pull on. That won't save them from a roller coaster ride, short term, but iPhone is suffering. Do you agree with TCs line or do you think he is airbrushing bits? Are prices too high? Is competition playing a part? Are iPhones underperforming on features? Etc.
The smartphone market is mature. I can easily afford the top of the line iPhone model, but I see no reason to upgrade from my 7 Plus. I think a lot of people feel this way. Even if Apple dropped prices tomorrow, I still wouldn’t upgrade. My 7 Plus is great. I’d like FaceID, but that’s not enough of a reason to upgrade.
I dont think prices are the issue. There are iPhone models under $500. Top of the line is very pricey, but Apple has nice offerings at several price points. The market is saturated and mature and this was bound to happen.
If price wasn’t an issue why did Tim keep mentioning subsidies going away? Why did he mention not marketing the trade-in program enough? Both of those things scream price issues. Which was obvious when the front page of apple.com was displaying this:
I know many people with older phones and none of them WANT to upgrade. They don’t care about pricing. They are satisfied with their current devices. I was just helping a friend with her Mac today. It’s 8 years old and works fine. She sees no reason to upgrade. The same thing is happening with phones.
As I said, Apple has phone models at a variety of price points. Stop focusing on the top of the line. Phones are mature. The tech is mature. There aren’t a lot of new features. Faster, better screen, better camera...yawn. My phone is fast enough and the camera is fine. The days of annual upgrades are over.
Price is a factor, but it’s not the issue.
I don’t think higher prices is the only factor but it is A factor. It’s not like upgrade cycles just started lengthening this year. It’s possible too that the XR just introduced confusion to the lineup. People weren’t sure what to buy so they didn’t buy anything.
DEAD ON with the XR confusion. A lot of people went into the Apple store prepared to drop $1000+ on a XS and left with a cheaper XR with a larger screen....
Or went into the store and left with nothing. If the XR was doing well why would Apple be marketing it $300 cheaper (with trade-in) on the front page of their website? Why would carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile be offering it for free with new activations?
Oh of course. People went in with $1000+ and left with nothing. DOOMED!
The stock will open down about 7%. That’s after being down almost 30% over the last quarter. But keep covering your eyes and ears if it makes you feel better.
I am holding off on a new iPhone and am sticking with my 6S Plus for a while longer due to Apple's higher prices. I'm sure I am not the only one...
Why not? Still works?? But if you cannot afford a new iPhone theres a lot of android alternative. Nobody is twisting your arm to buy a latest and the greatest
Nobody even mentions that Apple is still selling the iPhone 7, 8 and now again the X. If you don’t need the latest model, there are plenty of less-expensive models to choose from. People are focusing on the most-expensive Xs Max instead of the whole lineup. Yes the Xs Max is expensive - one reason I’m keeping my 8 Plus. But it’s not all there is.
It's ridiculous isn't it?
People complain about price and then quote the most expensive iPhone as an example.
The latest iPhone is $750.
When do people complain that Ford is too expensive and then continue to quote the $70,000 Shelby Mustang? Like they say, people have special rules for Apple.
Ya that claim keeps being made. However the piddly insultingly low 64GB of storage make that phone useless many. If you're replacing an older phone that cost less but had not storage and you're using it, that low end entry phone isn't going to cut it. That send to be Apple's strategy. Put devices with very low storage (and RAM on MacBooks) to try and bring people in. Then when they spec the machine they need is hundreds or thousands more.
Well XR seems to be doing fine.
64GB is plenty for a lot of people. I'm thinking of buying a 64GB XR myself.
Would you prefer XR start at 128GB and $799?
Like I said Apple can't win with the haters. I think a better strategy would have been a smaller screen size and lower price. But Apple is only gonna be 4 billion from breaking a new record so maybe Tim Cook is a better CEO than the rest of us?
You seem to think the extra storage costs Apple. It doesn't. The 64GB chip is a couple of dollars, the 128GB one is a couple of dollars more. Apple makes the money in making suckers pay an extra $100 for $4 of storage. It's a ripoff and people don't like it. Apple could sell the base model for the same price with 128GB storage, making it much better value and the customers would be much more willing to pay the price. It would likely increase sales, though Apple would no longer make the extra $96 for an upgrade to the next tier. And unfortunately all Cook can see is the loss of that $96, not the fact that it would ultimately result in more sales and more revenue.
Comments
Some do, some don't. Here's a handful of the flagship Android phones on the T-mobile site, all with comparable prices to iPhones:
And OMG a trade in promo! Samsung is doomed too!
If Apple dropped the price of the XS by 20% tomorrow, I doubt it would impact overall sales very much. I think Apple could move more devices with promotions like a free year of Apple Music and/or increased iCloud storage amounts. After the first year, your customer is hooked and keeps paying. The “first world” (I hate that term) is saturated. Dropping prices alone won’t solve the problem. In the “developing” (I hate that term too) world, price is key. They need a cheap, break-even device that brings people into the ecosystem and gets them hooked on services. As much as I hate to think of Apple as a services company, that is the logical source of revenue growth. Recurring monthly charges.
Also if we look at ASP and the sales data we have, the "SOoooo Expensive!!" iPhones are selling about the same or more than the previous models.
I just found this old comic BY ACCIDENT!!
https://www.imore.com/money-isnt-everything
$1375... for the bottom of the barrel 2018 phone. The cheapest possible phone you can get is a 7 for $1100.
The iPhone most people would like to have is the Xs 256 - which costs $2058 with AppleCare after tax.
Nice phones? Sure.
$2058 nice? lol
Throw in a case and your average data plan cost and you are looking at a 2 year $4500 investment.
$4500 for the new iPhone with the newest features.
Go ahead and try to defend that.
Business's can't justify that - so forget about 20 somethings paying off student loans, paying that for dancing poo emoji's and Instagram scrolling.
And before you attempt to point to other offerings - nobody wants to pay $1100 for a near obsolete 3 year old iPhone 7.
It's beyond absurd.
And again you quote the most expensive possible situation. You even threw in AppleCare, a case and a 3rd party data plan for 2 years! lol
Beyond absurd.
U.S.
Dollar
Tim spoke of that as one of the factors in developed countries.
Personally I’d like to see Apple move to a good/better/best model for iPhones where good and better aren’t just the previous years phone at a cheaper price. Have 3 new phones that are good value for the money with no confusion over which one to get. The only thing that complicates this idea is size as some people want really big phones and some want an SE sized phone. I would just like to see the line up be clean. And only keep older models around for very price sensitive markets like India.
As someone who has bought Apple products (and stock) for almost 40 years, I remember many long years where Apple sold 1 device for every 1000 the other guys sold. They struck silver with the iPod and then gold with the iPhone. The iPod appealed to all sorts of people. You didn't have to be a techie. Apple built a better mousetrap and the public responded. And then came the iPhone. Everyone needs a phone. Apple built a better phone and, again, the public responded. So what else has incredibly broad appeal and needs a better use experience? And is Apple even the company to deliver these days? I personally wish they'd focus more on home automation and deliver some killer first party products in that area. I also think they should get serious about audio, maybe buy Sonos. HomePod was a huge miss. I would have bought at least 6 for my house if it wasn't such a gimped product.
Of course Tim Cook won’t admit it, but those making products actually attractive to buyers will increase sales.