Arkorott - firmware infrastructure update is main focus, per our posts on our forum.
We’ll be giving a tech update this month on our forum, with some of the interesting technical details. Please have a look there for news about it. Thanks
Judge: Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? DBK: Yes DBK: [proceeds at some point to say something that is not the truth] Judge: You swore to tell the truth! DGK: Well...I *expected* to tell the truth. There are other factors that must be considered when you hear a "Yes" DBK: [proceeds to give the car example] Judge: *rolls eyes* I hereby charge you with perjury.
Nope. Once again you don't address the example I gave - an example that pretty much everyone has seen or experienced themselves in real life and they don't consider such things to be lies.
To go back to the proper context, if a judge asks me if I can appear in court on Friday and I say, "yes", then, on the way to the courtroom on Friday I'm in an accident and am in the hospital instead of in court, I will not be charged with perjury.
Those of us who have been banned or shadowbanned from the WayTools Forum ask our questions here because we are unable to ask our questions there.
The question was about getting an update. They have already said it will be on their forum. Thus it doesn't matter if some can personally ask the question there or not.
But it's fine if people want to ask here too. I was just pointing out where they have already said they will post it.
Those of us who have been banned or shadowbanned from the WayTools Forum ask our questions here because we are unable to ask our questions there.
The question was about getting an update. They have already said it will be on their forum. Thus it doesn't matter if some can personally ask the question there or not.
It certainly does matter if a person wants to ask a question that further clarifies a point. Why do you 'answer' questions such as this on behalf of a company you allegedly do not work for and give such pointless and unhelpful responses? You are such a gasbag. This is what I mean by you enabling Mark Knightons behavior.
But it's fine if people want to ask here too. I was just pointing out where they have already said they will post it.
Nobody needs or asked for your permission to ask a question here too. You were just pointing out what everyone else was perfectly capable of reading themselves without your troll assistance.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Alex - yes, we acknowledge that even though you hadn’t pushed the button, we refunded you.
Sometimes a vendor must withdraw from a transaction as resolution, if a customer is unlikely to be satisfied with any action taken to service them.
We’re sorry that our communication did not please you. Please consider whether the tone of your own posts would feel reasonable if you were on the receiving end.
Since you’re still engaged on topic, we hope that you’ll ultimately have a good experience with a unit, and are very happy.
I would buy one if you would sell me one. But you won’t!
To go back to the proper context, if a judge asks me if I can appear in court on Friday and I say, "yes", then, on the way to the courtroom on Friday I'm in an accident and am in the hospital instead of in court, I will not be charged with perjury.
If you were lying about your intent to arrive to court, and then purposefully crashed your car in order to avoid the appearance, then you would still be a pathological liar, but you might not be charged with perjury because it would be difficult to prove that someone would do something so moronic and self-destructive just to avoid a court appearance.
Hmmm. Kind of like....
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
> If you were lying about your intent to arrive to court, and then purposefully crashed your car in order to avoid the appearance.... Wow, I'd say you're getting absurd, but you already passed that point.
The whole debate is absurd from the start. You have been comparing an unqualified affirmative answer to a specific question (Will you ship in 2019: Yes) to everything and anything involving wives and judges and appointments and car crashes while excluding the context of 4+ years of prior assurances, ambiguity, misdirection, and outright lies about when the product will be shipped. Every time you do this, you illuminate to all what a ridiculous lying shill you are.
My analogy works perfectly. Mark Knighton is a pathological liar, but it is difficult to prove to a criminal standard of proof. Fortunately, for civil courts and all reasonable peoples expectations of others assurances, the preponderance of evidence standard suffices.
If you tell a judge you have coincidentally had a car crash every day, week, month, and season that your court appearances was rescheduled, trust me, you are going to land in jail.
Waytools has already walked backwards on the clarity of their original answer, with your assistance. The answer is no longer yes, it is now something vague and meaningless about 'rising confidence'.
The truth is, it will not ship in 2019, or 2020, or any year after that. If we assume 100,000 orders (Mark seems to like higher numbers), then a mere 0.13% of those who paid for the device have been lucky enough to receive an unfinished prototype after 4+ years of waiting.
Waytools should refund all money, and resume orders when the product is actually ready to ship, if ever. That is the only ethical approach at this point.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Nope. Once again you don't address the example I gave - an example that pretty much everyone has seen or experienced themselves in real life and they don't consider such things to be lies.
To go back to the proper context, if a judge asks me if I can appear in court on Friday and I say, "yes", then, on the way to the courtroom on Friday I'm in an accident and am in the hospital instead of in court, I will not be charged with perjury.
True, perjury charge is only if you lie to court, not if you couldn't make it court. However, deposition may still follow you into the hospital depending on the severity of injury, at which point if you lie you will go to jail immediately or right after you're discharged, again depending on severity.
But perjury (which could still follow) would be the least of your worries if you can't convince the court as to why you couldn't show up, which would be another issue you'd have to answer to. This too would also depend on the severity of the accident, plus what kind of accident it was....
Addressing your examples: Were you raped or beat up, etc. Specifically, Kahuna, did someone bust in your back door or just bust your face in?
More accurately, it seems that when I make a point you cannot twist enough to fit your narrative, you ignore it completely, or you retort with BS assertions, as per above.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
Those of us who have been banned or shadowbanned from the WayTools Forum ask our questions here because we are unable to ask our questions there.
The question was about getting an update. They have already said it will be on their forum. Thus it doesn't matter if some can personally ask the question there or not.
But it's fine if people want to ask here too. I was just pointing out where they have already said they will post it.
Kahuna, can you ask them to post here too if it's not much trouble?
Or will they not? Is it a foregone conclusion, just like them NOT shipping in 2019?
Those of us who have been banned or shadowbanned from the WayTools Forum ask our questions here because we are unable to ask our questions there.
The question was about getting an update. They have already said it will be on their forum. Thus it doesn't matter if some can personally ask the question there or not.
But it's fine if people want to ask here too. I was just pointing out where they have already said they will post it.
Kahuna, can you ask them to post here too if it's not much trouble?
Or will they not? Is it a foregone conclusion, just like them NOT shipping in 2019?
Yes, Kahuna will ask, but he has to ask his wife’s judge and his judge’s wife to see if it is feasible for an affirmative answer to be given as to whether or not asking can or cannot be done within the parameters of the positive or the negative, something which, in a quantum state, can be both at the same time, much like Schrodinger’s Cat can be both alive and dead, much like the truth, truthiness and mistruth over whether or not it is or isn’t possible for Kahuha to ask them to post here too if it’s not too much trouble. Which yes, it is, except when it isn’t, because of the relativity of e=mc-kahuhad.
i trust that, like a Waytools update, this makes things as crystal clear as mud.
Also, to be clear, the above statement is a 100% falsehood. A total lie.
The very earliest ship dates that were stated, and many of the successive short time frames (next week, etc) were not offered as 'estimates', they were stated as assurances that shipping would occur upon those dates or within those specific time frames.
This is the primary false narrative that Kahuna likes to perpetuate ad nauseum, but anybody can go through the blog posts and Waytools forum to fact check his BS.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
True, perjury charge is only if you lie to court, not if you couldn't make it court.
Nope. This has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with what ordinary people do regularly - say they will do something and fail to do so through no fault of their own. That isn't a lie. It isn't perjury.
Maybe we need to reverse this. That is, since TBD keeps saying it is a "fact" that the TB will not reach GR in 2019 or 2020, is he lying if it does? After all, saying it is a fact means he isn't saying, "It's my opinion".
Frankly, for anyone to present something that is in the future as a "fact" is absurd. Unless you have a time machine - but then just coming back in time my alter the future, create a separate timeline, etc. So even that wouldn't make it a sure thing.
Maybe I should show you how it should be done, if you want to complain about GR:
> The TextBlade was originally scheduled for GR back in 2015. Over and over again these estimated GR dates were missed. It isn't a good sign to miss so many over such a long period of time so I'm worried that it will miss 2019 as well. <
There you go. All factual with concerns expressed on those facts. It is much like what I tell people who see me using the TB in public - though I'm not real worried about shipping (that's my opinion), but I certainly can't prove my opinion is correct, nor would I ever claim it is.
Kahuna, can you ask them to post here too if it's not much trouble?
That's up to them. My personal opinion is that they should stick to their forum. Why? Because no matter where else they post, people will insist they update all those places as well. And the places where they don't post, people there will complain that WT ignores them.
So, while I have and will continue to pressure them on providing updates, that's as far as I'll go with it. I would also point out that in my posts where I talk about things that it would be good to include, I also consider what I've seen others ask for.
The very earliest ship dates that were stated, and many of the successive short time frames (next week, etc) were not offered as 'estimates', they were stated as assurances that shipping would occur upon those dates or within those specific time frames.
I await your examples where they said it was "assured". I don't even recall them ever saying "next week"! Might have, but you'll need to show it. Normally when they got to the end of a given period, they were not posting and then when the date was reached, or shortly thereafter, it was always at least delayed till the next month.
Nyes. Yeno. Wroight. You can look these words up in the Kahuna edition of the Oxford Dictionary. Each one is defined by a little arrow pointing to one of the others.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
I await your examples where they said it was "assured".
By 'assurances' (the actual word I used, not the one you put in quotes), I mean, as stated above, they stated a ship date or time frame, and did not qualify it, as in this example from late March 2015: https://forum.waytools.com/t/pre-order-dates-and-benefits/355/2
'We start releasing TextBlades to customers end April, so before then, we consider all purchases preorders.'
I take that as an assurance. That is an unqualified time frame which specified when the product would be shipping. 'End April'. Maybe Kahuna will argue they did not explicitly state the year? They meant 2020? (April 2019 has passed, so...)
Not 'we estimate' as you like to spin it. 'We start'.
To reference the Kahuna shill analogy, 'I will start driving to my appointment at 2pm.' As Kahuna notes, I might have a car accident and never get there, but there is no wiggle room in my assurance that I would begin the drive at 2pm. Whatever. Kahuna troll nonsense.
But here is an example of Waytools behavior that I believe is more illuminating to everyone:
Skim that thread. Its a pretty good read. It originates from March 2015, quite early in this debacle. You will see the exact same sort of behavior emanating from the mentally ill and criminally minded Waytools_Support character (Mark Knighton) that you see scattered throughout this thread 4 years later. It is unmistakably the same individual writing with the same baffling dialect of poorly concocted sentences and paranoid, accusatory, and outlandish remarks. And thankfully, it pre-dates Waytools hiring of Kahuna as their Chief Propaganda Officer, so you can read the thread without having to endure any of his diatribes rudely interrupting other peoples conversations, as we have all, unfortunately, become so accustomed to.
4 years ago.
The only thing anyone can be 100% certain Mark Knighton will do is take your money.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
True, perjury charge is only if you lie to court, not if you couldn't make it court.
Nope. This has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with what ordinary people do regularly - say they will do something and fail to do so through no fault of their own. That isn't a lie. It isn't perjury.
If you were to break someone's teacup, but the teacup owner 'forgives' you for it, the teacup doesn't automagically become unbroken. If you broke it by accident the chance of 'forgiveness' is high, while if you did it on purpose that chance of 'forgiveness' is lower. Either way, the teacup is still broken.
But I don't follow your statement above. Are you saying that your not being able to get to court -- due to your rape of getting beaten up -- will also 'forgive' you when you do commit perjury? Are you saying that getting raped and/or beat up gets you a get-out-of-jail card that works forever? I'm curious, do you already have such a card that you can make such assured statements?
That's up to them.
Of course, I know it's up to them. That's why I asked you to just ask.
My personal opinion is that they should stick to their forum. Why?
We'd like to know, but some of us don't keep their forum page open 24/7. And even when I visited the forums frequently, I often could not find their updates. So, since it seems they're posting much more often here than on WTF, maybe they can do us expatriates a solid and just copy and paste their answers here.
they stated a ship date or time frame, and did not qualify it
it pre-dates Waytools hiring of Kahuna
Don't have to qualify it. Even when you order something that has been in GR for years, you don't always get it when estimated. Make it about something new and anyone who thinks it is some sort of assurance hasn't lived in the real world much.
But let's play your game about not qualifying it. So it didn't have to be April 2015. After all, as you say, they didn't "qualify it".
Now, I don't think they meant that either, but I'm just playing your game.
But you are right about one thing - it predates WayTools hiring me - mostly because I have yet to be hired!
If you were to break someone's teacup, but the teacup owner 'forgives' you for it, the teacup doesn't automagically become unbroken.
maybe they can do us expatriates a solid and just copy and paste their answers here.
1. Everything you have brought up has been about a theoretical PAST event. Obviously if you say you did something in the past when you really didn't, that is likely a lie. But the thing this was about was about WT lying about shipping in 2019 - the future. Thus my example followed the same structure - a statement about what someone would do in the future and which, if it didn't happen, may not be a lie at all.
Clearly different. Such as:
I did my homework (when you really didn't) - a lie.
vs
I'll do my homework tonight - but you don't do it because an emergency came up. Not a lie.
2. I may paste the update here, but no promises. Or I may post them on my own subreddit. Or I may do both.
Comments
We’ll be giving a tech update this month on our forum, with some of the interesting technical details. Please have a look there for news about it. Thanks
To go back to the proper context, if a judge asks me if I can appear in court on Friday and I say, "yes", then, on the way to the courtroom on Friday I'm in an accident and am in the hospital instead of in court, I will not be charged with perjury.
But it's fine if people want to ask here too. I was just pointing out where they have already said they will post it.
It certainly does matter if a person wants to ask a question that further clarifies a point. Why do you 'answer' questions such as this on behalf of a company you allegedly do not work for and give such pointless and unhelpful responses? You are such a gasbag. This is what I mean by you enabling Mark Knightons behavior.
Nobody needs or asked for your permission to ask a question here too. You were just pointing out what everyone else was perfectly capable of reading themselves without your troll assistance.
Hmmm. Kind of like....
> If you were lying about your intent to arrive to court, and then purposefully crashed your car in order to avoid the appearance....
Wow, I'd say you're getting absurd, but you already passed that point.
My analogy works perfectly. Mark Knighton is a pathological liar, but it is difficult to prove to a criminal standard of proof. Fortunately, for civil courts and all reasonable peoples expectations of others assurances, the preponderance of evidence standard suffices.
If you tell a judge you have coincidentally had a car crash every day, week, month, and season that your court appearances was rescheduled, trust me, you are going to land in jail.
Waytools has already walked backwards on the clarity of their original answer, with your assistance. The answer is no longer yes, it is now something vague and meaningless about 'rising confidence'.
The truth is, it will not ship in 2019, or 2020, or any year after that. If we assume 100,000 orders (Mark seems to like higher numbers), then a mere 0.13% of those who paid for the device have been lucky enough to receive an unfinished prototype after 4+ years of waiting.
Waytools should refund all money, and resume orders when the product is actually ready to ship, if ever. That is the only ethical approach at this point.
But perjury (which could still follow) would be the least of your worries if you can't convince the court as to why you couldn't show up, which would be another issue you'd have to answer to. This too would also depend on the severity of the accident, plus what kind of accident it was....
Addressing your examples: Were you raped or beat up, etc. Specifically, Kahuna, did someone bust in your back door or just bust your face in?
Or will they not? Is it a foregone conclusion, just like them NOT shipping in 2019?
i trust that, like a Waytools update, this makes things as crystal clear as mud.
Right? I mean, wrong, I mean, yesn’t?
The very earliest ship dates that were stated, and many of the successive short time frames (next week, etc) were not offered as 'estimates', they were stated as assurances that shipping would occur upon those dates or within those specific time frames.
This is the primary false narrative that Kahuna likes to perpetuate ad nauseum, but anybody can go through the blog posts and Waytools forum to fact check his BS.
Maybe I should show you how it should be done, if you want to complain about GR:
There you go. All factual with concerns expressed on those facts. It is much like what I tell people who see me using the TB in public - though I'm not real worried about shipping (that's my opinion), but I certainly can't prove my opinion is correct, nor would I ever claim it is.
Oh, then you can show WT kept PROMISING to deliver all those other times. Otherwise, yep, they are estimates.
That's up to them. My personal opinion is that they should stick to their forum. Why? Because no matter where else they post, people will insist they update all those places as well. And the places where they don't post, people there will complain that WT ignores them.
So, while I have and will continue to pressure them on providing updates, that's as far as I'll go with it. I would also point out that in my posts where I talk about things that it would be good to include, I also consider what I've seen others ask for.
I await your examples where they said it was "assured". I don't even recall them ever saying "next week"! Might have, but you'll need to show it. Normally when they got to the end of a given period, they were not posting and then when the date was reached, or shortly thereafter, it was always at least delayed till the next month.
https://forum.waytools.com/t/pre-order-dates-and-benefits/355/2
'We start releasing TextBlades to customers end April, so before then, we consider all purchases preorders.'
I take that as an assurance. That is an unqualified time frame which specified when the product would be shipping. 'End April'. Maybe Kahuna will argue they did not explicitly state the year? They meant 2020? (April 2019 has passed, so...)
Not 'we estimate' as you like to spin it. 'We start'.
To reference the Kahuna shill analogy, 'I will start driving to my appointment at 2pm.' As Kahuna notes, I might have a car accident and never get there, but there is no wiggle room in my assurance that I would begin the drive at 2pm. Whatever. Kahuna troll nonsense.
But here is an example of Waytools behavior that I believe is more illuminating to everyone:
https://forum.waytools.com/t/order-delayed-four-times-now-no-explanation-provided-on-blog-twitter-etc/295/18
Skim that thread. Its a pretty good read. It originates from March 2015, quite early in this debacle. You will see the exact same sort of behavior emanating from the mentally ill and criminally minded Waytools_Support character (Mark Knighton) that you see scattered throughout this thread 4 years later. It is unmistakably the same individual writing with the same baffling dialect of poorly concocted sentences and paranoid, accusatory, and outlandish remarks. And thankfully, it pre-dates Waytools hiring of Kahuna as their Chief Propaganda Officer, so you can read the thread without having to endure any of his diatribes rudely interrupting other peoples conversations, as we have all, unfortunately, become so accustomed to.
4 years ago.
The only thing anyone can be 100% certain Mark Knighton will do is take your money.
But I don't follow your statement above. Are you saying that your not being able to get to court -- due to your rape of getting beaten up -- will also 'forgive' you when you do commit perjury? Are you saying that getting raped and/or beat up gets you a get-out-of-jail card that works forever? I'm curious, do you already have such a card that you can make such assured statements?
Of course, I know it's up to them. That's why I asked you to just ask.
We'd like to know, but some of us don't keep their forum page open 24/7. And even when I visited the forums frequently, I often could not find their updates. So, since it seems they're posting much more often here than on WTF, maybe they can do us expatriates a solid and just copy and paste their answers here.
But you are right about one thing - it predates WayTools hiring me - mostly because I have yet to be hired!
1. Everything you have brought up has been about a theoretical PAST event. Obviously if you say you did something in the past when you really didn't, that is likely a lie. But the thing this was about was about WT lying about shipping in 2019 - the future. Thus my example followed the same structure - a statement about what someone would do in the future and which, if it didn't happen, may not be a lie at all.
Clearly different. Such as:
I did my homework (when you really didn't) - a lie.
vs
I'll do my homework tonight - but you don't do it because an emergency came up. Not a lie.
2. I may paste the update here, but no promises. Or I may post them on my own subreddit. Or I may do both.