Huawei CEO is 'open' to selling 5G chip to 'great company' Apple

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,463member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.
    Your link:

    https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-tn-huawei-5g-trade-war/

    "They have yet to provide hard evidence and, privately, these officials admit they don’t have any. Instead, they frequently fall back on a 2012 House Intelligence Committee report."

    Sound familiar? Same old story. Yes. 'Groan'

    ... you have no "evidence" that Huawei is not acting, nor will act in the future, as an agent of China.
    Likewise:
    'you have no "evidence" that Trump is not acting, nor will act in the future, as an agent of Russia.'

    But, fortunately for both Huawei and Trump, that's not how it works.  
    You might want to consider adding something intelligent to the conversation.

    Oh, wait, that might not be possible...
    Since I was quoting you, that might be a correct statement.  A first for you!    Good job!
    Funny thing is, I'm about as far away from a Trump supporter as you could possibly imagine, and yet your constant interjection of Trump into these conversations adds nothing.

    But I repeat myself; you might want to consider adding something intelligent to the conversation.
    The fact is:   This issue is ALL about Trump.  Entirely Trump.  And his nationalism.   And his fabrications.
    But I repeat myself; you might want to consider adding something intelligent to the conversation.
  • Reply 42 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,463member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.
    Your link:

    https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-tn-huawei-5g-trade-war/

    "They have yet to provide hard evidence and, privately, these officials admit they don’t have any. Instead, they frequently fall back on a 2012 House Intelligence Committee report."

    Sound familiar? Same old story. Yes. 'Groan'
    https://www.axios.com/report-australian-intelligence-know-huawei-1541285886-42f1eb64-98de-422f-9686-4174e41ef37e.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/11/huawei-employee-arrested-in-poland-over-chinese-spy-allegations

    https://qz.com/africa/1192493/china-spied-on-african-union-headquarters-for-five-years/

    https://asd.gov.au/speeches/20181029-aspi-national-security-dinner.htm

    https://technode.com/2019/04/02/discussing-huawei-in-a-chinese-coffee-shop/

    https://www.npr.org/2019/04/12/711779130/as-china-hacked-u-s-businesses-turned-a-blind-eye

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/considerable-grounds-for-concern-top-british-mp-sounds-warning-on-huawei-20190406-p51bfh.html

    'Huawei insists it does not spy on behalf of the Chinese government but, on a recent visit to London, former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull told MPs that the West should not provide China with any capability to spy as "intent can change in a heartbeat"."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/13/huawei-is-better-positioned-spy-us-than-we-think/


    I have doubts about Huawei, and you have no "evidence" that Huawei is not acting, nor will act in the future, as an agent of China. More to the point, there is plenty of evidence that Chinese hacking has specifically benefitted Huawei, as well as China's industrial policy, and Huawei's work in the Chinese security apparatus.

    So, yeah, I have doubts about China, and Huawei, and at a minimum, would like to see the Five Eyes free of any Chinese Telecom equipment. Why would any country risk their infrastructure by using equipment from an autocracy known for its illiberal policies?


    Oh, and an excerpt from that LA times article;

    "Beyond the risk of spying, critics of Huawei worry the company’s massive global footprint in places such as Europe could give China immense leverage in a time of conflict.

    “There is a direct connection between [British Telecom] and Shenzhen,” said Lewis of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. “Huawei pumps out software updates and patches…. That’s where the risk is. [The British] could get one update that says, ‘Turn everything off.’ ”

    Huawei is adamant it won’t cave to government pressure to do anything of the sort. It commissioned a Chinese law firm last year to argue in a report that Chinese law doesn’t require the company to cooperate in intelligence gathering. That’s been met by skepticism overseas, given the Communist Party’s penchant for superseding the country’s laws.

    Critics also point to passage of China’s National Intelligence Law, which became effective in 2017. It requires that any Chinese organization or citizen “shall support, assist in, and cooperate in national intelligence work” in accordance with other Chinese laws.

    One recent example suggests it might not be easy to resist government pressure, particularly during a national crisis or a deepening U.S.-China conflict. Didi, China’s equivalent to Uber, tried unsuccessfully to resist revealing its database to a government supervisory agency last year.

    Ren says that Huawei has already told the European Union that it would be willing to sign a “no-spy” agreement, promising not to engage in any kind of illegal intelligence-gathering and not to have any kind of “back door” embedded in Huawei equipment or software. He says he also believes that the Chinese government would join other nations in signing a similar agreement. He says, however, that U.S. unwillingness to consider “no-spy” agreements has slowed their progress."

    Nobody in their right mind would believe that last paragraph.


    In the real world evidence comes first. If you make accusations - back them up!

    Huawei says the US has been throwing the same line for 10 years now and they still have nothing. Wow! Are you surprised that other governments called their bluff and decided to do their own thing?

    Why not check into reality?

    This is about power and influence. That's it. There is little else. The US dropped the ball on one of the biggest tech revolutions which is about to go live worldwide and hates the idea of someone else being in the driving seat.

    You refuse to admit this but the way things are playing out doesn't clearly gives the US government cause for concern. However, that concern isn't national security.

    So, after 10 years of the same treatment with senators even going on record as saying they want Huawei destroyed, Huawei os sueing the US government. Let's see what comes floating to the surface when that one gets underway.

    Intent? 

    Please wisen up on reality. Security experts have already gone on record as saying it is impossible to stop spying - from all sides! Should we ban US created communications hardware worldwide because the NSA wants its tentacles in everybody's pie? Because, while the US has nothing on Huawei, the world has a fair bit (thanks to Snowden) on US activity. Is Cisco a willing tool of the US government. Should China start throwing that line around? After all no evidence is needed, right?

    We already know the intent of the US and, in time of need, laws can get passed very quickly to make companies comply with its desires. In fact we already know that AT&T has been known to be a willing servant of the government! 

    And you keep mixing Huawei with China - deliberately now - as I have brought this to your attention many times and you continue to mix things up. They are not the same. Very poor on your part.

    Let's put the pieces together:

    We have a company (not a country!) That's been in the business for thirty years. Not one single major security breach in 30 years in spite of operating in over 170 countries.

    A company that would go out of business tomorrow if any bad faith were proven.

    A government (US) that has harked on about the same national security issues for 10 years and not dug up anything to prove their point. Far from it in fact and although people love to mention those security committees they fail to see that there was nothing solid even from the outset. One of them even went so far as to mistake a company that just happened to have the word ' Huawei' in its name for the Huawei that works in ICT. To quote a famous US tennis player: "you cannot be serious".

    After urging other countries to heed US warnings, those countries asked for the evidence to be brought forward and when none was given, the US started threatening them with reprisals. To the point of sending people on a world tour to drive the message home! Did no one in the US think that it is not nice to be threatened by a foreign country over your domestic affairs? Would the US like to be pushed around in the same way? Threatened even?

    Why? Because the US thinks it can in fact visit other countries and and start telling them what to do. That's 'how things work' because they think they have the power and influence to do so. This is not new of course. The NSA and its activities cannot be swept under the carpet at will. 

    So the US has been outed by the world on its attempts to interfere with other countries' communications, even having to apologise to Germany for example but has failed to demonstrate its accusations on Huawei.

    On a political level, it has backfired. The EU has said, 'we will go our own way thank you very much' and now has plans to depend on itself more and more, above all in technology.

    China, with its lead in the development of 5G, is taking the 5G wheel and is demonstrably ahead on many fronts with regards to the forthcoming telecommunications revolution. The US dropped the ball and is frantically trying to slow China's progress down - any way it can. That means derailing Huawei because Huawei has delivered the goods. Not only in China but worldwide. 

    The US will lose economic influence.
    The US will lose technological influence.
    The US is already losing political influence.

    In the case of Huawei, Donald Trump has scored a number of own goals and effectively undermined all efforts to influence foreign affairs on Huawei around the world.

    His tweets have gone so far as to put question marks over much of what has been put forward.

    In the meantime, and in spite of the bullying, much of the rest of the world is doing its own thing and not bending over for the US.

    It is supremely ironic that if you speak to ICT specialists, the companies that deploy and control the technology (the companies that know about security) none of them share the fears of the the US. They are waiting on government to give them the go ahead before making purchases and if they eventually get the go ahead, you can bet that many will be incluiding Huawei gear in their plans.

    Food for thought.



    I guess you missed the part where I provided evidence.

    As far as U.S. "reprisals", the only one I am aware of is that the U.S. Intelligence would not be shared over any insecure network, and as you have pointed out, the U.S. collects a lot of intelligence that is valuable to our partners.

    You are very emotional about this, whereas I look at limiting Huawei's 5G infrastructure unemotionally as protecting our, and our allies, National Security. 


    Can you see any irony in this:

    "European and Asian officials have complained privately that recent American intelligence briefings for allies did not share any sort of classified information that clearly demonstrated how the Chinese government used Huawei to steal information, according to people familiar with the discussions. European officials have told counterparts that if the United States has evidence the Chinese government has used its companies to do so, they should disclose it.

    One senior European telecommunications executive said that no American officials had presented “actual facts” about China’s abuse of Huawei networks."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/17/us/politics/huawei-ban.html

    So with threats of witholding intelligence not yet applied, are we to understand that they are in fact witholding it, or, on the other hand are we to understand that it simply doesn't exist?

    You have not presented evidence because none exists. As I said, if evidence existed the world would be dumping Huawei and nobody could blame them.

    As for being emotional, how far off the mark can you get? The only thing I'm interested in are the facts.

    That means when US journalists start including references to private or off the record conversations they have had with government representatives and affirm that they have no evidence, I not only take note, but take it as a true statement.

    In the same way that it would be crazy for Huawei to knowingly sacrifice its entire business, journalists don't make those references without being able to back them up either.



    The trouble is and as is obvious here:  Trump has succeeded in convincing his cult that Huawei has joined Hillary as one of the evils of society.  No fact, no truth, no reality, no proof (or lack of) will change their minds.  And, for the uninvolved who are not following the story, he has sown doubt in their minds (just as he and Putin did with Hillary).  So once again, he did what he set out to do:   attack a Chinese company and make them the bad guys.  It's what he does. 

    Other countries though are more interested in their own well being and are going their own way.

    Now Apple has that same choice:   Do the smart thing, the right thing?  Or, placate Trump?  Let Trump dictate their business practices and who they are allowed to do business with.
    edited April 15
  • Reply 43 of 101
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,785member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    In the real world evidence comes first. If you make accusations - back them up!




    I guess you missed the part where I provided evidence.

    Please inform Belgium:

    "After several months of investigation, the CCB has found no concrete evidence establishing any threat, De Standaard reported."

    http://brusselstimes.com/belgium/politics/14989/suspicion-of-spying-around-huawei-there-is-no-proof-in-belgium-says-cybersecurity-centre

    You must be onto something!
    GeorgeBMacmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 44 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,757member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    In the real world evidence comes first. If you make accusations - back them up!




    I guess you missed the part where I provided evidence.

    Please inform Belgium:

    "After several months of investigation, the CCB has found no concrete evidence establishing any threat, De Standaard reported."

    http://brusselstimes.com/belgium/politics/14989/suspicion-of-spying-around-huawei-there-is-no-proof-in-belgium-says-cybersecurity-centre

    You must be onto something!
    "However, "to date, we do not have sufficient evidence to establish any threat coming from Huawei," CCB spokesperson Katrien Eggers said. "A final report on the issue will not be produced as yet because the situation is still being monitored," Eggers added. "

    Sounds like they are still undecided, but Denmark isn't;

    https://news.yahoo.com/danish-telecom-group-shuns-chinas-huawei-5g-rollout-105717135--finance.html

    "Denmark's biggest telecom group TDC has chosen Swedish firm Ericsson over existing provider Huawei to roll out its ultra-fast 5G mobile network across the country, as a debate rages over security concerns surrounding the Chinese giant."


    edited April 15
  • Reply 45 of 101
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,785member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    In the real world evidence comes first. If you make accusations - back them up!




    I guess you missed the part where I provided evidence.

    Please inform Belgium:

    "After several months of investigation, the CCB has found no concrete evidence establishing any threat, De Standaard reported."

    http://brusselstimes.com/belgium/politics/14989/suspicion-of-spying-around-huawei-there-is-no-proof-in-belgium-says-cybersecurity-centre

    You must be onto something!
    "However, "to date, we do not have sufficient evidence to establish any threat coming from Huawei," CCB spokesperson Katrien Eggers said. "A final report on the issue will not be produced as yet because the situation is still being monitored," Eggers added. "

    Sounds like they are still undecided, but Denmark isn't;

    https://news.yahoo.com/danish-telecom-group-shuns-chinas-huawei-5g-rollout-105717135--finance.html

    "Denmark's biggest telecom group TDC has chosen Swedish firm Ericsson over existing provider Huawei to roll out its ultra-fast 5G mobile network across the country, as a debate rages over security concerns surrounding the Chinese giant."


    There you go again! Confusing countries with companies.

    TDC IS NOT DENMARK.


    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 46 of 101
    lerxtlerxt Posts: 184member
    I won’t be buying an iPhone with a Huawei chip in it, but I doubt Apple would be foolish enough to compromise the security reputation of their devices by using them. 
    tmayanantksundaram
  • Reply 47 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,757member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    In the real world evidence comes first. If you make accusations - back them up!




    I guess you missed the part where I provided evidence.

    Please inform Belgium:

    "After several months of investigation, the CCB has found no concrete evidence establishing any threat, De Standaard reported."

    http://brusselstimes.com/belgium/politics/14989/suspicion-of-spying-around-huawei-there-is-no-proof-in-belgium-says-cybersecurity-centre

    You must be onto something!
    "However, "to date, we do not have sufficient evidence to establish any threat coming from Huawei," CCB spokesperson Katrien Eggers said. "A final report on the issue will not be produced as yet because the situation is still being monitored," Eggers added. "

    Sounds like they are still undecided, but Denmark isn't;

    https://news.yahoo.com/danish-telecom-group-shuns-chinas-huawei-5g-rollout-105717135--finance.html

    "Denmark's biggest telecom group TDC has chosen Swedish firm Ericsson over existing provider Huawei to roll out its ultra-fast 5G mobile network across the country, as a debate rages over security concerns surrounding the Chinese giant."


    There you go again! Confusing countries with companies.

    TDC IS NOT DENMARK.


    I'm quite aware of that, Still, one has to wonder why TDC would turn their back on their existing Huawei investment, other than for security reasons.

    Then again, the Danes and Swedes are quite closely connected, by a bridge, it turns out.

    This is never going to be decided by "smoking gun" evidence. It's National Security, and it will be decided by risk assessment, though I don't expect that you will ever wrap your head around that. Still, I posted a number of links to "evidence" not favorable to Huawei, which you ignore.
    edited April 15
  • Reply 48 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,757member

    lerxt said:
    I won’t be buying an iPhone with a Huawei chip in it, but I doubt Apple would be foolish enough to compromise the security reputation of their devices by using them. 
    Apple is far down the path of their own modem, so agreed that there isn't a chance of ever seeing the Balong modem in an iPhone. I still believe that Intel is on track for a release to be included in the 2020 iPhone, so all of this speculation would be misplaced.

    I came across this, which is pretty fucking interesting;

    The two countries leading the banning of Huawei are also 2nd and 3rd in rollouts of 5G.

    Belies the bullshit that Avon b7 has been stating.


    Look at the top rollouts and leaders of 5G: Korea, US, Australia are at the top. 5G deployment is not a function of which supplier you choose, but how much operators are willing to invest in their networks rather than paying out dividends to their investors.

    edited April 15
  • Reply 49 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,463member
    So why the smear campaign against Huawei despite the absence of evidence?
    Jimmy Carter, after having a conversation with Trump this past weekend reported:
    "Carter ...  said Trump was worried about China leapfrogging the U.S. as a world economic superpower"

    Which is consistent with Trump's tweet that he would rather win by competition than by blocking.

    But, despite Trump's fears, that is projected by multiple analysts to happen in about 15 years.  But that assumes Trump doesn't tank the economy or destroy our currency before then.

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 50 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,757member
    So why the smear campaign against Huawei despite the absence of evidence?
    Jimmy Carter, after having a conversation with Trump this past weekend reported:
    "Carter ...  said Trump was worried about China leapfrogging the U.S. as a world economic superpower"

    Which is consistent with Trump's tweet that he would rather win by competition than by blocking.

    But, despite Trump's fears, that is projected by multiple analysts to happen in about 15 years.  But that assumes Trump doesn't tank the economy or destroy our currency before then.

    What smear campaign?

    Huawei has been under the microscope for years, and fairly so.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-huawei-tech-insight/long-before-trumps-trade-war-with-china-huaweis-activities-were-secretly-tracked-idUSKCN1QN2A8
    anantksundaram
  • Reply 51 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,463member
    tmay said:
    So why the smear campaign against Huawei despite the absence of evidence?
    Jimmy Carter, after having a conversation with Trump this past weekend reported:
    "Carter ...  said Trump was worried about China leapfrogging the U.S. as a world economic superpower"

    Which is consistent with Trump's tweet that he would rather win by competition than by blocking.

    But, despite Trump's fears, that is projected by multiple analysts to happen in about 15 years.  But that assumes Trump doesn't tank the economy or destroy our currency before then.

    What smear campaign?

    Huawei has been under the microscope for years, and fairly so.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-huawei-tech-insight/long-before-trumps-trade-war-with-china-huaweis-activities-were-secretly-tracked-idUSKCN1QN2A8
    Yes, like Hillary, they examined it closely -- and found nothing .   But that didn't stop the smear campaign.

    edited April 15
  • Reply 52 of 101
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 942member
    Surprising honesty...

    "We actually made some missteps, we set prices based on our costs, which were relatively low. We have reflected on this a lot," Zhengfei claimed. "With higher prices, we have started earning more but we will not distribute this extra money to employees or shareholders, instead we will use it to fund universities and scientists. This way, we will be able to make world-leading products."
    Yes, it's also well known that part of their success has been due to plowing profits back into the company and R&D instead of throwing it away as dividends and stock buybacks.


    There comes a point when you reward your investors. Wasted R&D is when you pour money into half baked ideas and throw them against the wall to see if something sticks. It’s why 90% of what Apple releases is an immediate hit. Name a competitor that does the opposite of Apple and releases innovative products that actually sell. In most cases the media and Apple haters jump on every one of these products as if Apple will loose. Then there is silence when it doesn’t sell or even when it’s discontinued 18 months later or sooner. I wonder if Apple uses these forums to make decisions. Maybe they listen to whatever the analysis and anti-Apple crowd says and then do the opposite. In hindsight it seems to be a perfect roadmap to be the worlds most successful company. 
    tmayJWSC
  • Reply 52 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,757member
    tmay said:
    So why the smear campaign against Huawei despite the absence of evidence?
    Jimmy Carter, after having a conversation with Trump this past weekend reported:
    "Carter ...  said Trump was worried about China leapfrogging the U.S. as a world economic superpower"

    Which is consistent with Trump's tweet that he would rather win by competition than by blocking.

    But, despite Trump's fears, that is projected by multiple analysts to happen in about 15 years.  But that assumes Trump doesn't tank the economy or destroy our currency before then.

    What smear campaign?

    Huawei has been under the microscope for years, and fairly so.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-huawei-tech-insight/long-before-trumps-trade-war-with-china-huaweis-activities-were-secretly-tracked-idUSKCN1QN2A8
    Yes, like Hillary, they examined it closely -- and found nothing .   But that didn't stop the smear campaign.

    They found "so little", that Meng is having an extradition hearing in Vancouver, so, I'm guessing the "smear" campaign continues. 


    anantksundaram
  • Reply 54 of 101
    nhtnht Posts: 4,446member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.
    Your link:

    https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-tn-huawei-5g-trade-war/

    "They have yet to provide hard evidence and, privately, these officials admit they don’t have any. Instead, they frequently fall back on a 2012 House Intelligence Committee report."

    Sound familiar? Same old story. Yes. 'Groan'

    ... you have no "evidence" that Huawei is not acting, nor will act in the future, as an agent of China.
    Likewise:
    'you have no "evidence" that Trump is not acting, nor will act in the future, as an agent of Russia.'

    But, fortunately for both Huawei and Trump, that's not how it works.  
    You might want to consider adding something intelligent to the conversation.

    Oh, wait, that might not be possible...
    Since I was quoting you, that might be a correct statement.  A first for you!    Good job!
    Funny thing is, I'm about as far away from a Trump supporter as you could possibly imagine, and yet your constant interjection of Trump into these conversations adds nothing.

    But I repeat myself; you might want to consider adding something intelligent to the conversation.
    I think he was one of those geniuses that used to populate PO that goaded people into infractions by repeated trolling.

    The moderation here is letting him get away with a lot of political name calling.
    anantksundaram
  • Reply 55 of 101
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,262member
    Every iPhone a Chinese spy device. Fantastic!
  • Reply 56 of 101
    Sheesh. It would seem that a couple of people here, on overdrive mode, are getting paid by the word. 

    Shameless. And pathetic to watch. 
    MplsP
  • Reply 57 of 101
    (Double post)
    edited April 15
  • Reply 58 of 101
    nht said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.
    Your link:

    https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-tn-huawei-5g-trade-war/

    "They have yet to provide hard evidence and, privately, these officials admit they don’t have any. Instead, they frequently fall back on a 2012 House Intelligence Committee report."

    Sound familiar? Same old story. Yes. 'Groan'

    ... you have no "evidence" that Huawei is not acting, nor will act in the future, as an agent of China.
    Likewise:
    'you have no "evidence" that Trump is not acting, nor will act in the future, as an agent of Russia.'

    But, fortunately for both Huawei and Trump, that's not how it works.  
    You might want to consider adding something intelligent to the conversation.

    Oh, wait, that might not be possible...
    Since I was quoting you, that might be a correct statement.  A first for you!    Good job!
    Funny thing is, I'm about as far away from a Trump supporter as you could possibly imagine, and yet your constant interjection of Trump into these conversations adds nothing.

    But I repeat myself; you might want to consider adding something intelligent to the conversation.
    I think he was one of those geniuses that used to populate PO that goaded people into infractions by repeated trolling.

    The moderation here is letting him get away with a lot of political name calling.
    Agreed. The quality of moderation here has deteriorated substantially.

    I am saying that as someone who’s been around in this forum for almost thirteen years now...
  • Reply 59 of 101
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,785member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    In the real world evidence comes first. If you make accusations - back them up!




    I guess you missed the part where I provided evidence.

    Please inform Belgium:

    "After several months of investigation, the CCB has found no concrete evidence establishing any threat, De Standaard reported."

    http://brusselstimes.com/belgium/politics/14989/suspicion-of-spying-around-huawei-there-is-no-proof-in-belgium-says-cybersecurity-centre

    You must be onto something!
    "However, "to date, we do not have sufficient evidence to establish any threat coming from Huawei," CCB spokesperson Katrien Eggers said. "A final report on the issue will not be produced as yet because the situation is still being monitored," Eggers added. "

    Sounds like they are still undecided, but Denmark isn't;

    https://news.yahoo.com/danish-telecom-group-shuns-chinas-huawei-5g-rollout-105717135--finance.html

    "Denmark's biggest telecom group TDC has chosen Swedish firm Ericsson over existing provider Huawei to roll out its ultra-fast 5G mobile network across the country, as a debate rages over security concerns surrounding the Chinese giant."


    There you go again! Confusing countries with companies.

    TDC IS NOT DENMARK.


    I'm quite aware of that, Still, one has to wonder why TDC would turn their back on their existing Huawei investment, other than for security reasons.

    Then again, the Danes and Swedes are quite closely connected, by a bridge, it turns out.

    This is never going to be decided by "smoking gun" evidence. It's National Security, and it will be decided by risk assessment, though I don't expect that you will ever wrap your head around that. Still, I posted a number of links to "evidence" not favorable to Huawei, which you ignore.
    If you were well aware of things you wouldn't have said it but I will let that one go.

    TDC is free to choose who it wants because a ban doesn't exist in Denmark. That is the whole point.

    Wonder all you want but there could also be economic reasons, technical reasons etc.

    I have no idea why you threw in the 'connected by a bridge' part.

    Who says this is never going to be decided by a smoking gun? You? You and the US government?

    If one isn't necessary why is Germany demanding to see one?

    Might be moot anyway:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/04/14/huawei-u-s-and-europe-divided-as-germany-formally-rejects-washingtons-demands/

    So, not only have you already decided Huawei is guilty but you have also decided no evidence is necessary. Was it you who went on rant about authoritarian governments and completely forgot we are discussing Huawei and not China and have since been incapable of seperating countries from companies?

    On the subject of smoking guns - a different opinion:

    http://telecoms.com/494603/where-is-the-evidence-of-huawei-espionage/

    Perhaps you now know why Germany needs to see the Smoking Gun but lets run with your notion anyway. We know a lot about the NSA which is carrying out the same communications interference as what you are accusing China of. This isn't open to debate thanks to Snowden. Surely the same failed logic you are applying here is also applicable to the USA and (by your logic anyway) any US communications company or company with an involvement with communications. So let's ban AT&T, Cisco and Qualcomm from doing business outside US borders. Reasonable?

    Still, nothing better than putting your money where your mouth is:

    https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/04/15/huawei-ceo-we-support-germanys-proposed-no-spy-agreement.html

    As the most scrutinised ICT company on the planet, Huawei would have a lot to gain if international certification became a reality.

    As for 'risk assessment' I have already tackled that one. The people who know - I mean really know - not you or I, but experts in the field, are the carriers and manufacturers. They know their own networks better than anyone else.

    None have spoken against Huawei and many are pushing governments to not ban Huawei.

    Vodafone's CEO had this to say at MWC2019:

    "The CEO of the world's second-largest mobile operator warned excluding Huawei from Europe's 5G networks could be "hugely disruptive" to national infrastructure and consumers"

    "
    banning Huawei from providing 5G infrastructure in Europe would hamper competition in the supply chain"

    "
    Read added that it would be "very very expensive" for operators and consumers if companies were forced to swap their Huawei equipment in favor of competitors', adding it would delay Europe's 5G rollout by "probably two years."

    "It structurally disadvantages Europe," he said "Of course the U.S. don't have that problem because they don't put Huawei equipment in."

    "
    Read said there is "high competition" among the three equipment providers but added Huawei has had "leading technology"

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/25/vodafone-ceo-defends-competition-from-huawei-at-mwc-2019.html

    In a nutshell, and coming from the CEO of one of the world's largest carriers, not a single reference to national security but highlighting key points:

    Huawei is well ahead in 5G on a technical level.

    Banning Huawei would cost the EU a fortune.

    Banning Huawei would delay the 5G rollout by around two years.

    The US has a lot to gain if Huawei is banned and national security isn't even one of them!

    On a different but security related topic, Trump has been riled by this news:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-takes-aim-at-huawei-after-ex-obama-official-becomes-lobbyist-11555336111

    By the way. An executive at Huawei has stated that they haven't actually spoken to Apple about using the Balong 5000. Seeing as time is of the essence for the 2019 iPhones, it looks unlikely that Apple will have a 5G option this year if intel fails to deliver on time.
    edited April 16 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 60 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,757member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    In the real world evidence comes first. If you make accusations - back them up!




    I guess you missed the part where I provided evidence.

    Please inform Belgium:

    "After several months of investigation, the CCB has found no concrete evidence establishing any threat, De Standaard reported."

    http://brusselstimes.com/belgium/politics/14989/suspicion-of-spying-around-huawei-there-is-no-proof-in-belgium-says-cybersecurity-centre

    You must be onto something!
    "However, "to date, we do not have sufficient evidence to establish any threat coming from Huawei," CCB spokesperson Katrien Eggers said. "A final report on the issue will not be produced as yet because the situation is still being monitored," Eggers added. "

    Sounds like they are still undecided, but Denmark isn't;

    https://news.yahoo.com/danish-telecom-group-shuns-chinas-huawei-5g-rollout-105717135--finance.html

    "Denmark's biggest telecom group TDC has chosen Swedish firm Ericsson over existing provider Huawei to roll out its ultra-fast 5G mobile network across the country, as a debate rages over security concerns surrounding the Chinese giant."


    There you go again! Confusing countries with companies.

    TDC IS NOT DENMARK.


    I'm quite aware of that, Still, one has to wonder why TDC would turn their back on their existing Huawei investment, other than for security reasons.

    Then again, the Danes and Swedes are quite closely connected, by a bridge, it turns out.

    This is never going to be decided by "smoking gun" evidence. It's National Security, and it will be decided by risk assessment, though I don't expect that you will ever wrap your head around that. Still, I posted a number of links to "evidence" not favorable to Huawei, which you ignore.
    If you were well aware of things you wouldn't have said it but I will let that one go.

    TDC is free to choose who it wants because a ban doesn't exist in Denmark. That is the whole point.

    Wonder all you want but there could also be economic reasons, technical reasons etc.

    I have no idea why you threw in the 'connected by a bridge' part.

    Who says this is never going to be decided by a smoking gun? You? You and the US government?

    If one isn't necessary why is Germany demanding to see one?

    Might be moot anyway:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/04/14/huawei-u-s-and-europe-divided-as-germany-formally-rejects-washingtons-demands/

    So, not only have you already decided Huawei is guilty but you have also decided no evidence is necessary. Was it you who went on rant about authoritarian governments and completely forgot we are discussing Huawei and not China and have since been incapable of seperating countries from companies?

    On the subject of smoking guns - a different opinion:

    http://telecoms.com/494603/where-is-the-evidence-of-huawei-espionage/

    Perhaps you now know why Germany needs to see the Smoking Gun but lets run with your notion anyway. We know a lot about the NSA which is carrying out the same communications interference as what you are accusing China of. This isn't open to debate thanks to Snowden. Surely the same failed logic you are applying here is also applicable to the USA and (by your logic anyway) any US communications company or company with an involvement with communications. So let's ban AT&T, Cisco and Qualcomm from doing business outside US borders. Reasonable?

    Still, nothing better than putting your money where your mouth is:

    https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/04/15/huawei-ceo-we-support-germanys-proposed-no-spy-agreement.html

    As the most scrutinised ICT company on the planet, Huawei would have a lot to gain if international certification became a reality.

    As for 'risk assessment' I have already tackled that one. The people who know - I mean really know - not you or I, but experts in the field, are the carriers and manufacturers. They know their own networks better than anyone else.

    None have spoken against Huawei and many are pushing governments to not ban Huawei.

    Vodafone's CEO had this to say at MWC2019:

    "The CEO of the world's second-largest mobile operator warned excluding Huawei from Europe's 5G networks could be "hugely disruptive" to national infrastructure and consumers"

    "banning Huawei from providing 5G infrastructure in Europe would hamper competition in the supply chain"

    "Read added that it would be "very very expensive" for operators and consumers if companies were forced to swap their Huawei equipment in favor of competitors', adding it would delay Europe's 5G rollout by "probably two years."

    "It structurally disadvantages Europe," he said "Of course the U.S. don't have that problem because they don't put Huawei equipment in."

    "Read said there is "high competition" among the three equipment providers but added Huawei has had "leading technology"

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/25/vodafone-ceo-defends-competition-from-huawei-at-mwc-2019.html

    In a nutshell, and coming from the CEO of one of the world's largest carriers, not a single reference to national security but highlighting key points:

    Huawei is well ahead in 5G on a technical level.

    Banning Huawei would cost the EU a fortune.

    Banning Huawei would delay the 5G rollout by around two years.

    The US has a lot to gain if Huawei is banned and national security isn't even one of them!

    On a different but security related topic, Trump has been riled by this news:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-takes-aim-at-huawei-after-ex-obama-official-becomes-lobbyist-11555336111

    By the way. An executive at Huawei has stated that they haven't actually spoken to Apple about using the Balong 5000. Seeing as time is of the essence for the 2019 iPhones, it looks unlikely that Apple will have a 5G option this year if intel fails to deliver on time.
    https://thechinacollection.org/who-owns-huawei/

    Download from this direct link,

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    Short answer, Ren and a trade union tied to the State, not "virtual" employee shareholders.

    https://twitter.com/JaneWalerud

    "As CEO of Teclo Networks, I met mobile operators. Many of them said that #Huawei sold network equipment with free financing for five years. The grant of 46 billion dollars IIRC came from the Chinese state, meant to increase #Huawei's market share. It's hard to compete with free."

    So, Huawei is tightly connected to the state, Ren is the single the shareholder other than the trade union, which is state controlled, at 1%, and is providing free financing.

    Doesn't appear fair trade to me.

    I'll leave and let you deny all of this.
    edited April 16
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