Huawei CEO is 'open' to selling 5G chip to 'great company' Apple

1246

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 101
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,771member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    In the real world evidence comes first. If you make accusations - back them up!




    I guess you missed the part where I provided evidence.

    Please inform Belgium:

    "After several months of investigation, the CCB has found no concrete evidence establishing any threat, De Standaard reported."

    http://brusselstimes.com/belgium/politics/14989/suspicion-of-spying-around-huawei-there-is-no-proof-in-belgium-says-cybersecurity-centre

    You must be onto something!
    "However, "to date, we do not have sufficient evidence to establish any threat coming from Huawei," CCB spokesperson Katrien Eggers said. "A final report on the issue will not be produced as yet because the situation is still being monitored," Eggers added. "

    Sounds like they are still undecided, but Denmark isn't;

    https://news.yahoo.com/danish-telecom-group-shuns-chinas-huawei-5g-rollout-105717135--finance.html

    "Denmark's biggest telecom group TDC has chosen Swedish firm Ericsson over existing provider Huawei to roll out its ultra-fast 5G mobile network across the country, as a debate rages over security concerns surrounding the Chinese giant."


    There you go again! Confusing countries with companies.

    TDC IS NOT DENMARK.


    I'm quite aware of that, Still, one has to wonder why TDC would turn their back on their existing Huawei investment, other than for security reasons.

    Then again, the Danes and Swedes are quite closely connected, by a bridge, it turns out.

    This is never going to be decided by "smoking gun" evidence. It's National Security, and it will be decided by risk assessment, though I don't expect that you will ever wrap your head around that. Still, I posted a number of links to "evidence" not favorable to Huawei, which you ignore.
    If you were well aware of things you wouldn't have said it but I will let that one go.

    TDC is free to choose who it wants because a ban doesn't exist in Denmark. That is the whole point.

    Wonder all you want but there could also be economic reasons, technical reasons etc.

    I have no idea why you threw in the 'connected by a bridge' part.

    Who says this is never going to be decided by a smoking gun? You? You and the US government?

    If one isn't necessary why is Germany demanding to see one?

    Might be moot anyway:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/04/14/huawei-u-s-and-europe-divided-as-germany-formally-rejects-washingtons-demands/

    So, not only have you already decided Huawei is guilty but you have also decided no evidence is necessary. Was it you who went on rant about authoritarian governments and completely forgot we are discussing Huawei and not China and have since been incapable of seperating countries from companies?

    On the subject of smoking guns - a different opinion:

    http://telecoms.com/494603/where-is-the-evidence-of-huawei-espionage/

    Perhaps you now know why Germany needs to see the Smoking Gun but lets run with your notion anyway. We know a lot about the NSA which is carrying out the same communications interference as what you are accusing China of. This isn't open to debate thanks to Snowden. Surely the same failed logic you are applying here is also applicable to the USA and (by your logic anyway) any US communications company or company with an involvement with communications. So let's ban AT&T, Cisco and Qualcomm from doing business outside US borders. Reasonable?

    Still, nothing better than putting your money where your mouth is:

    https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/04/15/huawei-ceo-we-support-germanys-proposed-no-spy-agreement.html

    As the most scrutinised ICT company on the planet, Huawei would have a lot to gain if international certification became a reality.

    As for 'risk assessment' I have already tackled that one. The people who know - I mean really know - not you or I, but experts in the field, are the carriers and manufacturers. They know their own networks better than anyone else.

    None have spoken against Huawei and many are pushing governments to not ban Huawei.

    Vodafone's CEO had this to say at MWC2019:

    "The CEO of the world's second-largest mobile operator warned excluding Huawei from Europe's 5G networks could be "hugely disruptive" to national infrastructure and consumers"

    "banning Huawei from providing 5G infrastructure in Europe would hamper competition in the supply chain"

    "Read added that it would be "very very expensive" for operators and consumers if companies were forced to swap their Huawei equipment in favor of competitors', adding it would delay Europe's 5G rollout by "probably two years."

    "It structurally disadvantages Europe," he said "Of course the U.S. don't have that problem because they don't put Huawei equipment in."

    "Read said there is "high competition" among the three equipment providers but added Huawei has had "leading technology"

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/25/vodafone-ceo-defends-competition-from-huawei-at-mwc-2019.html

    In a nutshell, and coming from the CEO of one of the world's largest carriers, not a single reference to national security but highlighting key points:

    Huawei is well ahead in 5G on a technical level.

    Banning Huawei would cost the EU a fortune.

    Banning Huawei would delay the 5G rollout by around two years.

    The US has a lot to gain if Huawei is banned and national security isn't even one of them!

    On a different but security related topic, Trump has been riled by this news:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-takes-aim-at-huawei-after-ex-obama-official-becomes-lobbyist-11555336111

    By the way. An executive at Huawei has stated that they haven't actually spoken to Apple about using the Balong 5000. Seeing as time is of the essence for the 2019 iPhones, it looks unlikely that Apple will have a 5G option this year if intel fails to deliver on time.
    https://thechinacollection.org/who-owns-huawei/

    Download from this direct link,

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    Short answer, Ren and a trade union tied to the State, not "virtual" employee shareholders.

    https://twitter.com/JaneWalerud

    "As CEO of Teclo Networks, I met mobile operators. Many of them said that #Huawei sold network equipment with free financing for five years. The grant of 46 billion dollars IIRC came from the Chinese state, meant to increase #Huawei's market share. It's hard to compete with free."

    So, Huawei is tightly connected to the state, Ren is the single the shareholder other than the trade union, which is state controlled, at 1%, and is providing free financing.

    Doesn't appear fair trade to me.

    I'll leave and let you get deny all this.
    So once again, national security vanishes from your discourse. Now it's financing and state connections but, as usual, hard facts are difficult to come by. Topic hopping as a means of deflection.

    Now we have casual statements tagged with ''IIRC' and you take it and run. For you it becomes fact.

    And then a document that literally admits there are a lot of unknowns (little documentation in the public domain) and which even struggles to reach a conclusion! It only does so - finally - by throwing in the 'ifs'.

    Once again it becomes fact in your view.
    GeorgeBMacmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 62 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,455member
    genovelle said:
    Surprising honesty...

    "We actually made some missteps, we set prices based on our costs, which were relatively low. We have reflected on this a lot," Zhengfei claimed. "With higher prices, we have started earning more but we will not distribute this extra money to employees or shareholders, instead we will use it to fund universities and scientists. This way, we will be able to make world-leading products."
    Yes, it's also well known that part of their success has been due to plowing profits back into the company and R&D instead of throwing it away as dividends and stock buybacks.


    There comes a point when you reward your investors. Wasted R&D is when you pour money into half baked ideas and throw them against the wall to see if something sticks. It’s why 90% of what Apple releases is an immediate hit. Name a competitor that does the opposite of Apple and releases innovative products that actually sell. In most cases the media and Apple haters jump on every one of these products as if Apple will loose. Then there is silence when it doesn’t sell or even when it’s discontinued 18 months later or sooner. I wonder if Apple uses these forums to make decisions. Maybe they listen to whatever the analysis and anti-Apple crowd says and then do the opposite. In hindsight it seems to be a perfect roadmap to be the worlds most successful company. 
    Excellent rationalization of an irrational policy.
  • Reply 63 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,455member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    So why the smear campaign against Huawei despite the absence of evidence?
    Jimmy Carter, after having a conversation with Trump this past weekend reported:
    "Carter ...  said Trump was worried about China leapfrogging the U.S. as a world economic superpower"

    Which is consistent with Trump's tweet that he would rather win by competition than by blocking.

    But, despite Trump's fears, that is projected by multiple analysts to happen in about 15 years.  But that assumes Trump doesn't tank the economy or destroy our currency before then.

    What smear campaign?

    Huawei has been under the microscope for years, and fairly so.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-huawei-tech-insight/long-before-trumps-trade-war-with-china-huaweis-activities-were-secretly-tracked-idUSKCN1QN2A8
    Yes, like Hillary, they examined it closely -- and found nothing .   But that didn't stop the smear campaign.

    They found "so little", that Meng is having an extradition hearing in Vancouver, so, I'm guessing the "smear" campaign continues. 


    LOL...  Your support of Trump's smear campaign against Huawei keeps getting weaker.
    In the side case that you are using as a diversion, that whole thing is based on Trump's attack on Iran -- which the rest of the world has rejected as fake.  The other part of it is a minor, but old and long settled dispute with T-Mobile.

    So why is Trump really blocking Huawei products from use by Americans?  
    What is he afraid of?  So far all of his allegations have proven to be empty.
  • Reply 64 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,455member
    nht said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.
    Your link:

    https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-tn-huawei-5g-trade-war/

    "They have yet to provide hard evidence and, privately, these officials admit they don’t have any. Instead, they frequently fall back on a 2012 House Intelligence Committee report."

    Sound familiar? Same old story. Yes. 'Groan'

    ... you have no "evidence" that Huawei is not acting, nor will act in the future, as an agent of China.
    Likewise:
    'you have no "evidence" that Trump is not acting, nor will act in the future, as an agent of Russia.'

    But, fortunately for both Huawei and Trump, that's not how it works.  
    You might want to consider adding something intelligent to the conversation.

    Oh, wait, that might not be possible...
    Since I was quoting you, that might be a correct statement.  A first for you!    Good job!
    Funny thing is, I'm about as far away from a Trump supporter as you could possibly imagine, and yet your constant interjection of Trump into these conversations adds nothing.

    But I repeat myself; you might want to consider adding something intelligent to the conversation.
    I think he was one of those geniuses that used to populate PO that goaded people into infractions by repeated trolling.

    The moderation here is letting him get away with a lot of political name calling.
    The post he was responding to was:
    "Since I was quoting you, that might be a correct statement.  A first for you!    Good job!"

    So, please tell me how that consists of, according you, "political name calling".

    Because you have chosen to defend an indefensible position by Trump, that doesn't reflect badly on me for calling it out.
  • Reply 65 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,455member
    nht said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.
    Your link:

    https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-tn-huawei-5g-trade-war/

    "They have yet to provide hard evidence and, privately, these officials admit they don’t have any. Instead, they frequently fall back on a 2012 House Intelligence Committee report."

    Sound familiar? Same old story. Yes. 'Groan'

    ... you have no "evidence" that Huawei is not acting, nor will act in the future, as an agent of China.
    Likewise:
    'you have no "evidence" that Trump is not acting, nor will act in the future, as an agent of Russia.'

    But, fortunately for both Huawei and Trump, that's not how it works.  
    You might want to consider adding something intelligent to the conversation.

    Oh, wait, that might not be possible...
    Since I was quoting you, that might be a correct statement.  A first for you!    Good job!
    Funny thing is, I'm about as far away from a Trump supporter as you could possibly imagine, and yet your constant interjection of Trump into these conversations adds nothing.

    But I repeat myself; you might want to consider adding something intelligent to the conversation.
    I think he was one of those geniuses that used to populate PO that goaded people into infractions by repeated trolling.

    The moderation here is letting him get away with a lot of political name calling.
    Agreed. The quality of moderation here has deteriorated substantially.

    I am saying that as someone who’s been around in this forum for almost thirteen years now...
    So tell me how calling out Trump's smear campaign consists of "political name calling"?
    If it's true, which it is, it is not name calling.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 66 of 101
    pdwmpdwm Posts: 6member
    "In the real world evidence comes first. If you make accusations - back them up!

    Huawei says the US has been throwing the same line for 10 years now and they still have nothing. Wow! Are you surprised that other governments called their bluff and decided to do their own thing?

    Why not check into reality?

    This is about power and influence. That's it. There is little else. The US dropped the ball on one of the biggest tech revolutions which is about to go live worldwide and hates the idea of someone else being in the driving seat.

    You refuse to admit this but the way things are playing out doesn't clearly gives the US government cause for concern. However, that concern isn't national security.

    So, after 10 years of the same treatment with senators even going on record as saying they want Huawei destroyed, Huawei os sueing the US government. Let's see what comes floating to the surface when that one gets underway.

    Intent? 

    Please wisen up on reality. Security experts have already gone on record as saying it is impossible to stop spying - from all sides! Should we ban US created communications hardware worldwide because the NSA wants its tentacles in everybody's pie? Because, while the US has nothing on Huawei, the world has a fair bit (thanks to Snowden) on US activity. Is Cisco a willing tool of the US government. Should China start throwing that line around? After all no evidence is needed, right?

    We already know the intent of the US and, in time of need, laws can get passed very quickly to make companies comply with its desires. In fact we already know that AT&T has been known to be a willing servant of the government! 

    And you keep mixing Huawei with China - deliberately now - as I have brought this to your attention many times and you continue to mix things up. They are not the same. Very poor on your part.

    Let's put the pieces together:

    We have a company (not a country!) That's been in the business for thirty years. Not one single major security breach in 30 years in spite of operating in over 170 countries.

    A company that would go out of business tomorrow if any bad faith were proven.

    A government (US) that has harked on about the same national security issues for 10 years and not dug up anything to prove their point. Far from it in fact and although people love to mention those security committees they fail to see that there was nothing solid even from the outset. One of them even went so far as to mistake a company that just happened to have the word ' Huawei' in its name for the Huawei that works in ICT. To quote a famous US tennis player: "you cannot be serious".

    After urging other countries to heed US warnings, those countries asked for the evidence to be brought forward and when none was given, the US started threatening them with reprisals. To the point of sending people on a world tour to drive the message home! Did no one in the US think that it is not nice to be threatened by a foreign country over your domestic affairs? Would the US like to be pushed around in the same way? Threatened even?

    Why? Because the US thinks it can in fact visit other countries and and start telling them what to do. That's 'how things work' because they think they have the power and influence to do so. This is not new of course. The NSA and its activities cannot be swept under the carpet at will. 

    So the US has been outed by the world on its attempts to interfere with other countries' communications, even having to apologise to Germany for example but has failed to demonstrate its accusations on Huawei.

    On a political level, it has backfired. The EU has said, 'we will go our own way thank you very much' and now has plans to depend on itself more and more, above all in technology.

    China, with its lead in the development of 5G, is taking the 5G wheel and is demonstrably ahead on many fronts with regards to the forthcoming telecommunications revolution. The US dropped the ball and is frantically trying to slow China's progress down - any way it can. That means derailing Huawei because Huawei has delivered the goods. Not only in China but worldwide. 

    The US will lose economic influence.
    The US will lose technological influence.
    The US is already losing political influence.

    In the case of Huawei, Donald Trump has scored a number of own goals and effectively undermined all efforts to influence foreign affairs on Huawei around the world.

    His tweets have gone so far as to put question marks over much of what has been put forward.

    In the meantime, and in spite of the bullying, much of the rest of the world is doing its own thing and not bending over for the US.

    It is supremely ironic that if you speak to ICT specialists, the companies that deploy and control the technology (the companies that know about security) none of them share the fears of the the US. They are waiting on government to give them the go ahead before making purchases and if they eventually get the go ahead, you can bet that many will be incluiding Huawei gear in their plans.

    Food for thought."

    Hear, Hear. Of course the US, UK etc wouldn't stoop so low, I don't think!
  • Reply 67 of 101
    pdwm said:
    "In the real world evidence comes first. If you make accusations - back them up!

    Huawei says the US has been throwing the same line for 10 years now and they still have nothing. Wow! Are you surprised that other governments called their bluff and decided to do their own thing?

    Why not check into reality?

    This is about power and influence. That's it. There is little else. The US dropped the ball on one of the biggest tech revolutions which is about to go live worldwide and hates the idea of someone else being in the driving seat.

    You refuse to admit this but the way things are playing out doesn't clearly gives the US government cause for concern. However, that concern isn't national security.

    So, after 10 years of the same treatment with senators even going on record as saying they want Huawei destroyed, Huawei os sueing the US government. Let's see what comes floating to the surface when that one gets underway.

    Intent? 

    Please wisen up on reality. Security experts have already gone on record as saying it is impossible to stop spying - from all sides! Should we ban US created communications hardware worldwide because the NSA wants its tentacles in everybody's pie? Because, while the US has nothing on Huawei, the world has a fair bit (thanks to Snowden) on US activity. Is Cisco a willing tool of the US government. Should China start throwing that line around? After all no evidence is needed, right?

    We already know the intent of the US and, in time of need, laws can get passed very quickly to make companies comply with its desires. In fact we already know that AT&T has been known to be a willing servant of the government! 

    And you keep mixing Huawei with China - deliberately now - as I have brought this to your attention many times and you continue to mix things up. They are not the same. Very poor on your part.

    Let's put the pieces together:

    We have a company (not a country!) That's been in the business for thirty years. Not one single major security breach in 30 years in spite of operating in over 170 countries.

    A company that would go out of business tomorrow if any bad faith were proven.

    A government (US) that has harked on about the same national security issues for 10 years and not dug up anything to prove their point. Far from it in fact and although people love to mention those security committees they fail to see that there was nothing solid even from the outset. One of them even went so far as to mistake a company that just happened to have the word ' Huawei' in its name for the Huawei that works in ICT. To quote a famous US tennis player: "you cannot be serious".

    After urging other countries to heed US warnings, those countries asked for the evidence to be brought forward and when none was given, the US started threatening them with reprisals. To the point of sending people on a world tour to drive the message home! Did no one in the US think that it is not nice to be threatened by a foreign country over your domestic affairs? Would the US like to be pushed around in the same way? Threatened even?

    Why? Because the US thinks it can in fact visit other countries and and start telling them what to do. That's 'how things work' because they think they have the power and influence to do so. This is not new of course. The NSA and its activities cannot be swept under the carpet at will. 

    So the US has been outed by the world on its attempts to interfere with other countries' communications, even having to apologise to Germany for example but has failed to demonstrate its accusations on Huawei.

    On a political level, it has backfired. The EU has said, 'we will go our own way thank you very much' and now has plans to depend on itself more and more, above all in technology.

    China, with its lead in the development of 5G, is taking the 5G wheel and is demonstrably ahead on many fronts with regards to the forthcoming telecommunications revolution. The US dropped the ball and is frantically trying to slow China's progress down - any way it can. That means derailing Huawei because Huawei has delivered the goods. Not only in China but worldwide. 

    The US will lose economic influence.
    The US will lose technological influence.
    The US is already losing political influence.

    In the case of Huawei, Donald Trump has scored a number of own goals and effectively undermined all efforts to influence foreign affairs on Huawei around the world.

    His tweets have gone so far as to put question marks over much of what has been put forward.

    In the meantime, and in spite of the bullying, much of the rest of the world is doing its own thing and not bending over for the US.

    It is supremely ironic that if you speak to ICT specialists, the companies that deploy and control the technology (the companies that know about security) none of them share the fears of the the US. They are waiting on government to give them the go ahead before making purchases and if they eventually get the go ahead, you can bet that many will be incluiding Huawei gear in their plans.

    Food for thought."

    Hear, Hear. Of course the US, UK etc wouldn't stoop so low, I don't think!

    Is this Avon B7 or a new person?
  • Reply 68 of 101
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,570member
    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    Wrong. As has been shown to you many times, six different US intelligence agencies came to the same conclusion. They aren’t fans of Trump, and likewise said Russia meddled in our election.
    tmay
  • Reply 69 of 101
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,570member

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    tmay
  • Reply 70 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,455member
    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    Wrong. As has been shown to you many times, six different US intelligence agencies came to the same conclusion. They aren’t fans of Trump, and likewise said Russia meddled in our election.
    Years old talking points dredged out of distant 'if-mayby's -- sometime in the future, if...'  counts as political rhetoric rather than evidence.  That's why the rest of the world seems to be calling bull.
  • Reply 71 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,743member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:

    In the real world evidence comes first. If you make accusations - back them up!




    I guess you missed the part where I provided evidence.

    Please inform Belgium:

    "After several months of investigation, the CCB has found no concrete evidence establishing any threat, De Standaard reported."

    http://brusselstimes.com/belgium/politics/14989/suspicion-of-spying-around-huawei-there-is-no-proof-in-belgium-says-cybersecurity-centre

    You must be onto something!
    "However, "to date, we do not have sufficient evidence to establish any threat coming from Huawei," CCB spokesperson Katrien Eggers said. "A final report on the issue will not be produced as yet because the situation is still being monitored," Eggers added. "

    Sounds like they are still undecided, but Denmark isn't;

    https://news.yahoo.com/danish-telecom-group-shuns-chinas-huawei-5g-rollout-105717135--finance.html

    "Denmark's biggest telecom group TDC has chosen Swedish firm Ericsson over existing provider Huawei to roll out its ultra-fast 5G mobile network across the country, as a debate rages over security concerns surrounding the Chinese giant."


    There you go again! Confusing countries with companies.

    TDC IS NOT DENMARK.


    I'm quite aware of that, Still, one has to wonder why TDC would turn their back on their existing Huawei investment, other than for security reasons.

    Then again, the Danes and Swedes are quite closely connected, by a bridge, it turns out.

    This is never going to be decided by "smoking gun" evidence. It's National Security, and it will be decided by risk assessment, though I don't expect that you will ever wrap your head around that. Still, I posted a number of links to "evidence" not favorable to Huawei, which you ignore.
    If you were well aware of things you wouldn't have said it but I will let that one go.

    TDC is free to choose who it wants because a ban doesn't exist in Denmark. That is the whole point.

    Wonder all you want but there could also be economic reasons, technical reasons etc.

    I have no idea why you threw in the 'connected by a bridge' part.

    Who says this is never going to be decided by a smoking gun? You? You and the US government?

    If one isn't necessary why is Germany demanding to see one?

    Might be moot anyway:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/04/14/huawei-u-s-and-europe-divided-as-germany-formally-rejects-washingtons-demands/

    So, not only have you already decided Huawei is guilty but you have also decided no evidence is necessary. Was it you who went on rant about authoritarian governments and completely forgot we are discussing Huawei and not China and have since been incapable of seperating countries from companies?

    On the subject of smoking guns - a different opinion:

    http://telecoms.com/494603/where-is-the-evidence-of-huawei-espionage/

    Perhaps you now know why Germany needs to see the Smoking Gun but lets run with your notion anyway. We know a lot about the NSA which is carrying out the same communications interference as what you are accusing China of. This isn't open to debate thanks to Snowden. Surely the same failed logic you are applying here is also applicable to the USA and (by your logic anyway) any US communications company or company with an involvement with communications. So let's ban AT&T, Cisco and Qualcomm from doing business outside US borders. Reasonable?

    Still, nothing better than putting your money where your mouth is:

    https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/04/15/huawei-ceo-we-support-germanys-proposed-no-spy-agreement.html

    As the most scrutinised ICT company on the planet, Huawei would have a lot to gain if international certification became a reality.

    As for 'risk assessment' I have already tackled that one. The people who know - I mean really know - not you or I, but experts in the field, are the carriers and manufacturers. They know their own networks better than anyone else.

    None have spoken against Huawei and many are pushing governments to not ban Huawei.

    Vodafone's CEO had this to say at MWC2019:

    "The CEO of the world's second-largest mobile operator warned excluding Huawei from Europe's 5G networks could be "hugely disruptive" to national infrastructure and consumers"

    "banning Huawei from providing 5G infrastructure in Europe would hamper competition in the supply chain"

    "Read added that it would be "very very expensive" for operators and consumers if companies were forced to swap their Huawei equipment in favor of competitors', adding it would delay Europe's 5G rollout by "probably two years."

    "It structurally disadvantages Europe," he said "Of course the U.S. don't have that problem because they don't put Huawei equipment in."

    "Read said there is "high competition" among the three equipment providers but added Huawei has had "leading technology"

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/25/vodafone-ceo-defends-competition-from-huawei-at-mwc-2019.html

    In a nutshell, and coming from the CEO of one of the world's largest carriers, not a single reference to national security but highlighting key points:

    Huawei is well ahead in 5G on a technical level.

    Banning Huawei would cost the EU a fortune.

    Banning Huawei would delay the 5G rollout by around two years.

    The US has a lot to gain if Huawei is banned and national security isn't even one of them!

    On a different but security related topic, Trump has been riled by this news:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-takes-aim-at-huawei-after-ex-obama-official-becomes-lobbyist-11555336111

    By the way. An executive at Huawei has stated that they haven't actually spoken to Apple about using the Balong 5000. Seeing as time is of the essence for the 2019 iPhones, it looks unlikely that Apple will have a 5G option this year if intel fails to deliver on time.
    https://thechinacollection.org/who-owns-huawei/

    Download from this direct link,

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    Short answer, Ren and a trade union tied to the State, not "virtual" employee shareholders.

    https://twitter.com/JaneWalerud

    "As CEO of Teclo Networks, I met mobile operators. Many of them said that #Huawei sold network equipment with free financing for five years. The grant of 46 billion dollars IIRC came from the Chinese state, meant to increase #Huawei's market share. It's hard to compete with free."

    So, Huawei is tightly connected to the state, Ren is the single the shareholder other than the trade union, which is state controlled, at 1%, and is providing free financing.

    Doesn't appear fair trade to me.

    I'll leave and let you get deny all this.
    So once again, national security vanishes from your discourse. Now it's financing and state connections but, as usual, hard facts are difficult to come by. Topic hopping as a means of deflection.

    Now we have casual statements tagged with ''IIRC' and you take it and run. For you it becomes fact.

    And then a document that literally admits there are a lot of unknowns (little documentation in the public domain) and which even struggles to reach a conclusion! It only does so - finally - by throwing in the 'ifs'.

    Once again it becomes fact in your view.
    Yeah, experts that know shit, vs Avon b7, who is pushing a belief system.

    I provided a link to a legal analysis of Huawei as a private corporation, and that concluded that Huawei wasn't a private corporation, but in fact controlled by a trade union with direct links to the Chinese Government.

    This is the part where you provide comparable data that Huawei is in fact a private company without ties to the CCP, Chinese Government, or Government subsidies.

  • Reply 72 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,743member
    Is this Avon B7 or a new person?
    A seldom used Bot that copied Avon b7 talking points?
    edited April 16 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 73 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,743member
    JWSC said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.
    Your link:

    https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-tn-huawei-5g-trade-war/

    "They have yet to provide hard evidence and, privately, these officials admit they don’t have any. Instead, they frequently fall back on a 2012 House Intelligence Committee report."

    Sound familiar? Same old story. Yes. 'Groan'
    https://www.axios.com/report-australian-intelligence-know-huawei-1541285886-42f1eb64-98de-422f-9686-4174e41ef37e.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/11/huawei-employee-arrested-in-poland-over-chinese-spy-allegations

    https://qz.com/africa/1192493/china-spied-on-african-union-headquarters-for-five-years/

    https://asd.gov.au/speeches/20181029-aspi-national-security-dinner.htm

    https://technode.com/2019/04/02/discussing-huawei-in-a-chinese-coffee-shop/

    https://www.npr.org/2019/04/12/711779130/as-china-hacked-u-s-businesses-turned-a-blind-eye

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/considerable-grounds-for-concern-top-british-mp-sounds-warning-on-huawei-20190406-p51bfh.html

    'Huawei insists it does not spy on behalf of the Chinese government but, on a recent visit to London, former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull told MPs that the West should not provide China with any capability to spy as "intent can change in a heartbeat"."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/13/huawei-is-better-positioned-spy-us-than-we-think/


    I have doubts about Huawei, and you have no "evidence" that Huawei is not acting, nor will act in the future, as an agent of China. More to the point, there is plenty of evidence that Chinese hacking has specifically benefitted Huawei, as well as China's industrial policy, and Huawei's work in the Chinese security apparatus.

    So, yeah, I have doubts about China, and Huawei, and at a minimum, would like to see the Five Eyes free of any Chinese Telecom equipment. Why would any country risk their infrastructure by using equipment from an autocracy known for its illiberal policies?


    Oh, and an excerpt from that LA times article;

    "Beyond the risk of spying, critics of Huawei worry the company’s massive global footprint in places such as Europe could give China immense leverage in a time of conflict.

    “There is a direct connection between [British Telecom] and Shenzhen,” said Lewis of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. “Huawei pumps out software updates and patches…. That’s where the risk is. [The British] could get one update that says, ‘Turn everything off.’ ”

    Huawei is adamant it won’t cave to government pressure to do anything of the sort. It commissioned a Chinese law firm last year to argue in a report that Chinese law doesn’t require the company to cooperate in intelligence gathering. That’s been met by skepticism overseas, given the Communist Party’s penchant for superseding the country’s laws.

    Critics also point to passage of China’s National Intelligence Law, which became effective in 2017. It requires that any Chinese organization or citizen “shall support, assist in, and cooperate in national intelligence work” in accordance with other Chinese laws.

    One recent example suggests it might not be easy to resist government pressure, particularly during a national crisis or a deepening U.S.-China conflict. Didi, China’s equivalent to Uber, tried unsuccessfully to resist revealing its database to a government supervisory agency last year.

    Ren says that Huawei has already told the European Union that it would be willing to sign a “no-spy” agreement, promising not to engage in any kind of illegal intelligence-gathering and not to have any kind of “back door” embedded in Huawei equipment or software. He says he also believes that the Chinese government would join other nations in signing a similar agreement. He says, however, that U.S. unwillingness to consider “no-spy” agreements has slowed their progress."

    Nobody in their right mind would believe that last paragraph.


    Dude, I’ve read some of those articles.  Absent, hard evidence.  No Huawei hardware to do the dastardly deed.

    A lot of ‘Chinese whispers’ and innuendo, with one article referring to another and so on.  These guys are saying, well, so-and-so told me and he’s credible so I believe him/her.  Someone is orchestrating this media campaign.  To what purpose one can only speculate.

    Actually, I posted links to "hard evidence", in Poland, the African Union, and Australia.

    Now you might say, "Oh, but that isn't a smoking gun", and I would agree, but National Security is about risk assessment and mitigation, and that "hard evidence" definitely points to risk.

    This isn't a civil court of law, and Huawei doesn't get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to National Security.

  • Reply 74 of 101
    pdwmpdwm Posts: 6member
    "Is this Avon B7 or a new person?"

    No, not a new person. Couldn't figure out the quotes thing, so did it the old fashioned way.
  • Reply 75 of 101
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 425member

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    Yea, just like we trusted the CIA, G.W. Bush and company, the New York Times, and CNN when they told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    There were repeated claims that Huawei had engineered a chip that could act as a conduit for the Chinese spy agencies.  Over and over this was repeated.   And we got nothing.  Where’s your spider sense in all this?  Somethings not right.

    For my own part, I can’t say one way or another if Huawei’s CEO is ‘chummy’ with some key spooks in China.  Odds are that they have had ongoing conversations over the years.  If I was a Chinese spook I’d want to know what my high tech telecom company was doing and if they could do anything for me.  So I am not exonerating Huawei and I would not feel comfortable with their product in my phone.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 76 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,743member
    JWSC said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    Yea, just like we trusted the CIA, G.W. Bush and company, the New York Times, and CNN when they told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    There were repeated claims that Huawei had engineered a chip that could act as a conduit for the Chinese spy agencies.  Over and over this was repeated.   And we got nothing.  Where’s your spider sense in all this?  Somethings not right.

    For my own part, I can’t say one way or another if Huawei’s CEO is ‘chummy’ with some key spooks in China.  Odds are that they have had ongoing conversations over the years.  If I was a Chinese spook I’d want to know what my high tech telecom company was doing and if they could do anything for me.  So I am not exonerating Huawei and I would not feel comfortable with their product in my phone.
    You understand the essence of National Security.

    It's also likely that much of the IP needed for telecom in the earlier days of Huawei came from hacked sources, or was otherwise acquired without licensing from the iP holder. A good case can be made the Huawei is built on the carcass of Nortel, which lost most of its iP to Chinese Hackers.

    Similarly, this was happening, and likely still happening;

    https://www.npr.org/2019/04/12/711779130/as-china-hacked-u-s-businesses-turned-a-blind-eye

    "And for its part, the Chinese government officially denied to NPR and Frontline that it has been involved in such practices."

    "But that's not what former U.S. Attorney David Hickton found. When he took over in the Western District of Pennsylvania in 2010, he says, he was inundated with calls from companies saying they suspected China might be inside their computer systems. 

    I literally received an avalanche of concern and complaints from companies and organizations who said, 'We are losing our technology — drip, drip, drip,' " he says.

    Hickton opened an investigation and quickly set his sights on a special unit of the Chinese military — a secretive group known as Unit 61398. Investigators were able to watch as the unit's officers, sitting in an office building in Shanghai, broke into the computer systems of American companies at night, stopped for an hour break at China's lunchtime and then continued in the Chinese afternoon.

    "They were really using a large rake — think of a rake [like] you rake leaves in the fall," he says. "They were taking everything ... personal information, strategic plans, organizational charts. Then they just figured out later how they were going to use it."


    It's also true that very little of our National Intelligence suggested that there was any substantial amount of WoMD in Iraq, and there was in fact UN teams that were tasked with looking for sites based on, among other things, Intelligence provided by the U.S. 


    Certainly, there was an administration effort to determine that WoMD were in Iraq. 
    edited April 16
  • Reply 77 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,455member

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 78 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,743member

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
  • Reply 79 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,455member
    JWSC said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    Yea, just like we trusted the CIA, G.W. Bush and company, the New York Times, and CNN when they told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    There were repeated claims that Huawei had engineered a chip that could act as a conduit for the Chinese spy agencies.  Over and over this was repeated.   And we got nothing.  Where’s your spider sense in all this?  Somethings not right.

    For my own part, I can’t say one way or another if Huawei’s CEO is ‘chummy’ with some key spooks in China.  Odds are that they have had ongoing conversations over the years.  If I was a Chinese spook I’d want to know what my high tech telecom company was doing and if they could do anything for me.  So I am not exonerating Huawei and I would not feel comfortable with their product in my phone.
    Under that criteria, you shouldn't feel comfortable with any components from any company in your phone.

    BTW,  there are reports that Tim Cook has met with Donald Trump and has had dealings with U.S. intelligence and justice personnel.   Maybe your next phone should be a Samsung?
  • Reply 80 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,455member
    tmay said:
    JWSC said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    Yea, just like we trusted the CIA, G.W. Bush and company, the New York Times, and CNN when they told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    There were repeated claims that Huawei had engineered a chip that could act as a conduit for the Chinese spy agencies.  Over and over this was repeated.   And we got nothing.  Where’s your spider sense in all this?  Somethings not right.

    For my own part, I can’t say one way or another if Huawei’s CEO is ‘chummy’ with some key spooks in China.  Odds are that they have had ongoing conversations over the years.  If I was a Chinese spook I’d want to know what my high tech telecom company was doing and if they could do anything for me.  So I am not exonerating Huawei and I would not feel comfortable with their product in my phone.
    You understand the essence of National Security.

    It's also likely that much of the IP needed for telecom in the earlier days of Huawei came from hacked sources, or was otherwise acquired without licensing from the iP holder. A good case can be made the Huawei is built on the carcass of Nortel, which lost most of its iP to Chinese Hackers.

    Similarly, this was happening, and likely still happening;

    https://www.npr.org/2019/04/12/711779130/as-china-hacked-u-s-businesses-turned-a-blind-eye

    "And for its part, the Chinese government officially denied to NPR and Frontline that it has been involved in such practices."

    "But that's not what former U.S. Attorney David Hickton found. When he took over in the Western District of Pennsylvania in 2010, he says, he was inundated with calls from companies saying they suspected China might be inside their computer systems. 

    I literally received an avalanche of concern and complaints from companies and organizations who said, 'We are losing our technology — drip, drip, drip,' " he says.

    Hickton opened an investigation and quickly set his sights on a special unit of the Chinese military — a secretive group known as Unit 61398. Investigators were able to watch as the unit's officers, sitting in an office building in Shanghai, broke into the computer systems of American companies at night, stopped for an hour break at China's lunchtime and then continued in the Chinese afternoon.

    "They were really using a large rake — think of a rake [like] you rake leaves in the fall," he says. "They were taking everything ... personal information, strategic plans, organizational charts. Then they just figured out later how they were going to use it."


    It's also true that very little of our National Intelligence suggested that there was any substantial amount of WoMD in Iraq, and there was in fact UN teams that were tasked with looking for sites based on, among other things, Intelligence provided by the U.S. 


    Certainly, there was an administration effort to determine that WoMD were in Iraq. 
    Great conspiracy theory there!   Unfortunately  with the rake theory I think you confused CHina's actions with those in the U.S.

    And, for the WMDs:  yes, a U.N. task force was charged with investigating nuclear weapons.   They said repeatidly "We were there. We looked.  There are none."  So, the Republicans attacked the U.N. and said we should pull out of it if they wouldn't support their lies and fabrications.
    muthuk_vanalingam
Sign In or Register to comment.