Huawei CEO is 'open' to selling 5G chip to 'great company' Apple

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,762member
    tmay said:
    JWSC said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    Yea, just like we trusted the CIA, G.W. Bush and company, the New York Times, and CNN when they told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    There were repeated claims that Huawei had engineered a chip that could act as a conduit for the Chinese spy agencies.  Over and over this was repeated.   And we got nothing.  Where’s your spider sense in all this?  Somethings not right.

    For my own part, I can’t say one way or another if Huawei’s CEO is ‘chummy’ with some key spooks in China.  Odds are that they have had ongoing conversations over the years.  If I was a Chinese spook I’d want to know what my high tech telecom company was doing and if they could do anything for me.  So I am not exonerating Huawei and I would not feel comfortable with their product in my phone.
    You understand the essence of National Security.

    It's also likely that much of the IP needed for telecom in the earlier days of Huawei came from hacked sources, or was otherwise acquired without licensing from the iP holder. A good case can be made the Huawei is built on the carcass of Nortel, which lost most of its iP to Chinese Hackers.

    Similarly, this was happening, and likely still happening;

    https://www.npr.org/2019/04/12/711779130/as-china-hacked-u-s-businesses-turned-a-blind-eye

    "And for its part, the Chinese government officially denied to NPR and Frontline that it has been involved in such practices."

    "But that's not what former U.S. Attorney David Hickton found. When he took over in the Western District of Pennsylvania in 2010, he says, he was inundated with calls from companies saying they suspected China might be inside their computer systems. 

    I literally received an avalanche of concern and complaints from companies and organizations who said, 'We are losing our technology — drip, drip, drip,' " he says.

    Hickton opened an investigation and quickly set his sights on a special unit of the Chinese military — a secretive group known as Unit 61398. Investigators were able to watch as the unit's officers, sitting in an office building in Shanghai, broke into the computer systems of American companies at night, stopped for an hour break at China's lunchtime and then continued in the Chinese afternoon.

    "They were really using a large rake — think of a rake [like] you rake leaves in the fall," he says. "They were taking everything ... personal information, strategic plans, organizational charts. Then they just figured out later how they were going to use it."


    It's also true that very little of our National Intelligence suggested that there was any substantial amount of WoMD in Iraq, and there was in fact UN teams that were tasked with looking for sites based on, among other things, Intelligence provided by the U.S. 


    Certainly, there was an administration effort to determine that WoMD were in Iraq. 
    Great conspiracy theory there!   Unfortunately  with the rake theory I think you confused CHina's actions with those in the U.S.

    And, for the WMDs:  yes, a U.N. task force was charged with investigating nuclear weapons.   They said repeatidly "We were there. We looked.  There are none."  So, the Republicans attacked the U.N. and said we should pull out of it if they wouldn't support their lies and fabrications.
    It's called journalism, and demonstrated that China's Military is hacking U.S. Corporations. 

    You, on the other hand, appear to have some kind of grudge going on that clouds your judgement. Not much any of us can do about that, and the Moderators certainly aren't.


  • Reply 82 of 101
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 438member
    JWSC said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    Yea, just like we trusted the CIA, G.W. Bush and company, the New York Times, and CNN when they told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    There were repeated claims that Huawei had engineered a chip that could act as a conduit for the Chinese spy agencies.  Over and over this was repeated.   And we got nothing.  Where’s your spider sense in all this?  Somethings not right.

    For my own part, I can’t say one way or another if Huawei’s CEO is ‘chummy’ with some key spooks in China.  Odds are that they have had ongoing conversations over the years.  If I was a Chinese spook I’d want to know what my high tech telecom company was doing and if they could do anything for me.  So I am not exonerating Huawei and I would not feel comfortable with their product in my phone.
    Under that criteria, you shouldn't feel comfortable with any components from any company in your phone.

    BTW,  there are reports that Tim Cook has met with Donald Trump and has had dealings with U.S. intelligence and justice personnel.   Maybe your next phone should be a Samsung?

    Ah, yea, I’ll be sure to let you know when I switch to Samsung.

    Meanwhile, my main beef with the Huawei reporting is that it has been based upon unsubstantiated reports of Huawei hardware spying surreptitiously with computer hardware.  It’s was repeated as fact but was never substantiated.  That happens a lot these days and I find it annoying.

    But I can tell you from first hand experience that the Chinese State is actively working with many notionally ‘private’ Chinese companies to advance state objectives - whatever they may be.  And that includes widespread theft of IP, which is what I’m most familiar with.  This has been systematic across both commercial and defense sectors, with many thousands of attempted cyberattacks every day.  So, suspicion is warranted.

  • Reply 83 of 101
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,796member
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    Really. Have you heard the other side of the story? I haven't.

    This is from the Bloomberg article describing the so-called 'sting':

    "Khan and Shurboff don’t know how the story will end. It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

    On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. “I think they’re identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business,” Khan says. “I wouldn’t say they’re discriminating.”

    There's a lot of speculation in the whole thing. Perhaps logical as this type of article needs some sauce to keep readers interested and they only have one version of what went on.

    However, at the end (quoted above) reality sets in and it is revealed that the 'sting' might be so weak as to lead to - nothing. Something that would be very surprising given the lengths the FBI is going to unearth something - anything!

    Either way, it would be wise to wait for the other side of the story, and possible court case before claiming evidence of wrongdoing exists.

    From reading your post you make it sound like things are crystal clear. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

    It's a mystery how you can claim there is 'evidence' of doing something wrong when, AFAIK, a case hasn't even been brought and you haven't heard the whole story.


    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 84 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,510member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    JWSC said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    Yea, just like we trusted the CIA, G.W. Bush and company, the New York Times, and CNN when they told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    There were repeated claims that Huawei had engineered a chip that could act as a conduit for the Chinese spy agencies.  Over and over this was repeated.   And we got nothing.  Where’s your spider sense in all this?  Somethings not right.

    For my own part, I can’t say one way or another if Huawei’s CEO is ‘chummy’ with some key spooks in China.  Odds are that they have had ongoing conversations over the years.  If I was a Chinese spook I’d want to know what my high tech telecom company was doing and if they could do anything for me.  So I am not exonerating Huawei and I would not feel comfortable with their product in my phone.
    You understand the essence of National Security.

    It's also likely that much of the IP needed for telecom in the earlier days of Huawei came from hacked sources, or was otherwise acquired without licensing from the iP holder. A good case can be made the Huawei is built on the carcass of Nortel, which lost most of its iP to Chinese Hackers.

    Similarly, this was happening, and likely still happening;

    https://www.npr.org/2019/04/12/711779130/as-china-hacked-u-s-businesses-turned-a-blind-eye

    "And for its part, the Chinese government officially denied to NPR and Frontline that it has been involved in such practices."

    "But that's not what former U.S. Attorney David Hickton found. When he took over in the Western District of Pennsylvania in 2010, he says, he was inundated with calls from companies saying they suspected China might be inside their computer systems. 

    I literally received an avalanche of concern and complaints from companies and organizations who said, 'We are losing our technology — drip, drip, drip,' " he says.

    Hickton opened an investigation and quickly set his sights on a special unit of the Chinese military — a secretive group known as Unit 61398. Investigators were able to watch as the unit's officers, sitting in an office building in Shanghai, broke into the computer systems of American companies at night, stopped for an hour break at China's lunchtime and then continued in the Chinese afternoon.

    "They were really using a large rake — think of a rake [like] you rake leaves in the fall," he says. "They were taking everything ... personal information, strategic plans, organizational charts. Then they just figured out later how they were going to use it."


    It's also true that very little of our National Intelligence suggested that there was any substantial amount of WoMD in Iraq, and there was in fact UN teams that were tasked with looking for sites based on, among other things, Intelligence provided by the U.S. 


    Certainly, there was an administration effort to determine that WoMD were in Iraq. 
    Great conspiracy theory there!   Unfortunately  with the rake theory I think you confused CHina's actions with those in the U.S.

    And, for the WMDs:  yes, a U.N. task force was charged with investigating nuclear weapons.   They said repeatidly "We were there. We looked.  There are none."  So, the Republicans attacked the U.N. and said we should pull out of it if they wouldn't support their lies and fabrications.
    It's called journalism, and demonstrated that China's Military is hacking U.S. Corporations. 

    You, on the other hand, appear to have some kind of grudge going on that clouds your judgement. Not much any of us can do about that, and the Moderators certainly aren't.


    The moderators aren't here to shield you from the truth. 
  • Reply 85 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,510member
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    LOL...  A minor, unimportant product from T-Mobile for which the case was settled years ago -- but resurrected for Trump's smear campaign.
  • Reply 86 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,762member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    Really. Have you heard the other side of the story? I haven't.

    This is from the Bloomberg article describing the so-called 'sting':

    "Khan and Shurboff don’t know how the story will end. It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

    On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. “I think they’re identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business,” Khan says. “I wouldn’t say they’re discriminating.”

    There's a lot of speculation in the whole thing. Perhaps logical as this type of article needs some sauce to keep readers interested and they only have one version of what went on.

    However, at the end (quoted above) reality sets in and it is revealed that the 'sting' might be so weak as to lead to - nothing. Something that would be very surprising given the lengths the FBI is going to unearth something - anything!

    Either way, it would be wise to wait for the other side of the story, and possible court case before claiming evidence of wrongdoing exists.

    From reading your post you make it sound like things are crystal clear. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

    It's a mystery how you can claim there is 'evidence' of doing something wrong when, AFAIK, a case hasn't even been brought and you haven't heard the whole story.


    There is absolutely evidence of a crime. Whether it is pursued by authorities is another matter.

    Your spin doesn't let Huawei off the hook.
  • Reply 87 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,510member
    JWSC said:
    JWSC said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    Yea, just like we trusted the CIA, G.W. Bush and company, the New York Times, and CNN when they told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    There were repeated claims that Huawei had engineered a chip that could act as a conduit for the Chinese spy agencies.  Over and over this was repeated.   And we got nothing.  Where’s your spider sense in all this?  Somethings not right.

    For my own part, I can’t say one way or another if Huawei’s CEO is ‘chummy’ with some key spooks in China.  Odds are that they have had ongoing conversations over the years.  If I was a Chinese spook I’d want to know what my high tech telecom company was doing and if they could do anything for me.  So I am not exonerating Huawei and I would not feel comfortable with their product in my phone.
    Under that criteria, you shouldn't feel comfortable with any components from any company in your phone.

    BTW,  there are reports that Tim Cook has met with Donald Trump and has had dealings with U.S. intelligence and justice personnel.   Maybe your next phone should be a Samsung?

    Ah, yea, I’ll be sure to let you know when I switch to Samsung.

    Meanwhile, my main beef with the Huawei reporting is that it has been based upon unsubstantiated reports of Huawei hardware spying surreptitiously with computer hardware.  It’s was repeated as fact but was never substantiated.  That happens a lot these days and I find it annoying.

    But I can tell you from first hand experience that the Chinese State is actively working with many notionally ‘private’ Chinese companies to advance state objectives - whatever they may be.  And that includes widespread theft of IP, which is what I’m most familiar with.  This has been systematic across both commercial and defense sectors, with many thousands of attempted cyberattacks every day.  So, suspicion is warranted.

    It's not clear, but you might be confusing a Bloomberg report on a U.S. company called "SuperMicro" who was using Chinese contractors to build servers (mostly for Amazon's AWS cloud service that Apple used back in the early days of iCloud) with Huawei. 

  • Reply 88 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,762member

    JWSC said:
    JWSC said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    Yea, just like we trusted the CIA, G.W. Bush and company, the New York Times, and CNN when they told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    There were repeated claims that Huawei had engineered a chip that could act as a conduit for the Chinese spy agencies.  Over and over this was repeated.   And we got nothing.  Where’s your spider sense in all this?  Somethings not right.

    For my own part, I can’t say one way or another if Huawei’s CEO is ‘chummy’ with some key spooks in China.  Odds are that they have had ongoing conversations over the years.  If I was a Chinese spook I’d want to know what my high tech telecom company was doing and if they could do anything for me.  So I am not exonerating Huawei and I would not feel comfortable with their product in my phone.
    Under that criteria, you shouldn't feel comfortable with any components from any company in your phone.

    BTW,  there are reports that Tim Cook has met with Donald Trump and has had dealings with U.S. intelligence and justice personnel.   Maybe your next phone should be a Samsung?

    Ah, yea, I’ll be sure to let you know when I switch to Samsung.

    Meanwhile, my main beef with the Huawei reporting is that it has been based upon unsubstantiated reports of Huawei hardware spying surreptitiously with computer hardware.  It’s was repeated as fact but was never substantiated.  That happens a lot these days and I find it annoying.

    But I can tell you from first hand experience that the Chinese State is actively working with many notionally ‘private’ Chinese companies to advance state objectives - whatever they may be.  And that includes widespread theft of IP, which is what I’m most familiar with.  This has been systematic across both commercial and defense sectors, with many thousands of attempted cyberattacks every day.  So, suspicion is warranted.

    Again, there was a story about the African Union Headquarters that Huawei provided the servers for and managed, sending data every day in the early morning to Shanghai.
    That's not proof of spying, but it certainly is suspicious that Huawei did nothing about it.

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/29/16946802/china-african-union-spying-hq-cybersecurity-computers-backdoors-espionage

    There is also the story in Pakistan of a wireless setup on a telecom site that appeared to be redundant. That wasn't necessarily for spying, but it definitely was removed once it was noticed.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/04/08/did-the-u-s-just-publicly-back-down-from-its-fight-with-huawei-in-europe/#7ecfd8f249dd

    "The U.K. claims were made in a BBC documentary broadcast on Monday evening. The same program reported on the detection and removal of seemingly hidden wi-fi cards inside the CCTV cabinets deployed in a safe city project in Pakistan. The equipment was supplied by Huawei and is exactly the kind of risk that has underpinned concerns expressed by the U.S. and elsewhere."

    Then there's this;

    "Will everything change in the U.K. as well?

    It had seemed as though the U.K. would go along with the rest of Europe and opt for managed risk mitigation. But that changed a week ago, when the U.K.'s spy agency published a scathing report on the Huawei's security through its dedicated Huawei Cyber Security Evaluation Centre (HCSEC), reporting that it "continued to identify concerning issues in Huawei’s approach to software development bringing significantly increased risk to U.K. operators."

    These issues were first raised last year, but the latest report claims that "no material progress has been made on the issues raised in the previous 2018 report... meaning limited assurances that all risks to U.K. national security from Huawei’s involvement in the UK’s critical networks can be sufficiently mitigated long-term."

    And now to the latest twist in the saga. On Monday, a senior official with the U.K.'s spy agency slammed equipment from Huawei as "like nothing else - it's engineering like it's back in the year 2000 - it's very, very shoddy," adding that "we've seen nothing to give us any confidence that the transformation programme is going to do what they say it's going to do."

    Why would any company take a chance on Huawei? Oh yeah, cost and availability. 

    National Security requires better than that.


    edited April 16
  • Reply 89 of 101
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,510member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    Really. Have you heard the other side of the story? I haven't.

    This is from the Bloomberg article describing the so-called 'sting':

    "Khan and Shurboff don’t know how the story will end. It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

    On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. “I think they’re identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business,” Khan says. “I wouldn’t say they’re discriminating.”

    There's a lot of speculation in the whole thing. Perhaps logical as this type of article needs some sauce to keep readers interested and they only have one version of what went on.

    However, at the end (quoted above) reality sets in and it is revealed that the 'sting' might be so weak as to lead to - nothing. Something that would be very surprising given the lengths the FBI is going to unearth something - anything!

    Either way, it would be wise to wait for the other side of the story, and possible court case before claiming evidence of wrongdoing exists.

    From reading your post you make it sound like things are crystal clear. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

    It's a mystery how you can claim there is 'evidence' of doing something wrong when, AFAIK, a case hasn't even been brought and you haven't heard the whole story.


    There is absolutely evidence of a crime. Whether it is pursued by authorities is another matter.

    Your spin doesn't let Huawei off the hook.
    Oh, that's right.   I forgot:  "Guilty until proven innocent" -- if the entity is on the wrong side of one of Trump's smear campaigns.
  • Reply 90 of 101
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,796member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    Really. Have you heard the other side of the story? I haven't.

    This is from the Bloomberg article describing the so-called 'sting':

    "Khan and Shurboff don’t know how the story will end. It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

    On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. “I think they’re identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business,” Khan says. “I wouldn’t say they’re discriminating.”

    There's a lot of speculation in the whole thing. Perhaps logical as this type of article needs some sauce to keep readers interested and they only have one version of what went on.

    However, at the end (quoted above) reality sets in and it is revealed that the 'sting' might be so weak as to lead to - nothing. Something that would be very surprising given the lengths the FBI is going to unearth something - anything!

    Either way, it would be wise to wait for the other side of the story, and possible court case before claiming evidence of wrongdoing exists.

    From reading your post you make it sound like things are crystal clear. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

    It's a mystery how you can claim there is 'evidence' of doing something wrong when, AFAIK, a case hasn't even been brought and you haven't heard the whole story.


    There is absolutely evidence of a crime. Whether it is pursued by authorities is another matter.

    Your spin doesn't let Huawei off the hook.
    What was the crime? They even denied ITAR was relevant. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 91 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,762member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    Really. Have you heard the other side of the story? I haven't.

    This is from the Bloomberg article describing the so-called 'sting':

    "Khan and Shurboff don’t know how the story will end. It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

    On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. “I think they’re identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business,” Khan says. “I wouldn’t say they’re discriminating.”

    There's a lot of speculation in the whole thing. Perhaps logical as this type of article needs some sauce to keep readers interested and they only have one version of what went on.

    However, at the end (quoted above) reality sets in and it is revealed that the 'sting' might be so weak as to lead to - nothing. Something that would be very surprising given the lengths the FBI is going to unearth something - anything!

    Either way, it would be wise to wait for the other side of the story, and possible court case before claiming evidence of wrongdoing exists.

    From reading your post you make it sound like things are crystal clear. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

    It's a mystery how you can claim there is 'evidence' of doing something wrong when, AFAIK, a case hasn't even been brought and you haven't heard the whole story.


    There is absolutely evidence of a crime. Whether it is pursued by authorities is another matter.

    Your spin doesn't let Huawei off the hook.
    What was the crime? They even denied ITAR was relevant. 
    https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3070479/huawei-in-fbi-sting-at-ces-after-allegedly-reverse-engineering-another-product

    "So, one cold January day, Akhan and the FBI went to Vegas, armed with hidden cameras and microphones, and set to work as a reporter from Bloomberg watched as an impartial observer from a safe distance (and FBI - if you're listening, keep us in mind for future stings, we'd love that).

    The loan of the sample was made under strict rules - that it not be tampered with, that it be returned promptly and that it didn't leave the US. During the sting, recorded on tape, a Huawei executive admitted that the company had broken the agreement by exporting the sample, and whilst there's no admission of the reverse engineering aspect, it will be interesting to see if Huawei unveils a new sort of glass for the P30 and foldable expected to launch in the coming weeks.

    The sting was not apparently connected to the 23 federal charges against Huawei that were filed recently, but rather serve to illustrate the point that, whatever else Huawei has or hasn't done, its business ethics in this matter don't paint it in a very good light. In fact it's a bit like using black paint to touch up Darth Vader's mask, in a blackout, in a black hole. That's pretty bad light right there."

    Huawei isn't the "good guys" that you keep stating; they are thieves. That they aren't, yet anyway, indicted for this doesn't change that fact. The event happened.

    edited April 16
  • Reply 92 of 101
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,796member
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    JWSC said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    Yea, just like we trusted the CIA, G.W. Bush and company, the New York Times, and CNN when they told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    There were repeated claims that Huawei had engineered a chip that could act as a conduit for the Chinese spy agencies.  Over and over this was repeated.   And we got nothing.  Where’s your spider sense in all this?  Somethings not right.

    For my own part, I can’t say one way or another if Huawei’s CEO is ‘chummy’ with some key spooks in China.  Odds are that they have had ongoing conversations over the years.  If I was a Chinese spook I’d want to know what my high tech telecom company was doing and if they could do anything for me.  So I am not exonerating Huawei and I would not feel comfortable with their product in my phone.
    Under that criteria, you shouldn't feel comfortable with any components from any company in your phone.

    BTW,  there are reports that Tim Cook has met with Donald Trump and has had dealings with U.S. intelligence and justice personnel.   Maybe your next phone should be a Samsung?

    Ah, yea, I’ll be sure to let you know when I switch to Samsung.

    Meanwhile, my main beef with the Huawei reporting is that it has been based upon unsubstantiated reports of Huawei hardware spying surreptitiously with computer hardware.  It’s was repeated as fact but was never substantiated.  That happens a lot these days and I find it annoying.

    But I can tell you from first hand experience that the Chinese State is actively working with many notionally ‘private’ Chinese companies to advance state objectives - whatever they may be.  And that includes widespread theft of IP, which is what I’m most familiar with.  This has been systematic across both commercial and defense sectors, with many thousands of attempted cyberattacks every day.  So, suspicion is warranted.

    Again, there was a story about the African Union Headquarters that Huawei provided the servers for and managed, sending data every day in the early morning to Shanghai.
    That's not proof of spying, but it certainly is suspicious that Huawei did nothing about it.

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/29/16946802/china-african-union-spying-hq-cybersecurity-computers-backdoors-espionage

    There is also the story in Pakistan of a wireless setup on a telecom site that appeared to be redundant. That wasn't necessarily for spying, but it definitely was removed once it was noticed.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/04/08/did-the-u-s-just-publicly-back-down-from-its-fight-with-huawei-in-europe/#7ecfd8f249dd

    "The U.K. claims were made in a BBC documentary broadcast on Monday evening. The same program reported on the detection and removal of seemingly hidden wi-fi cards inside the CCTV cabinets deployed in a safe city project in Pakistan. The equipment was supplied by Huawei and is exactly the kind of risk that has underpinned concerns expressed by the U.S. and elsewhere."

    Then there's this;

    "Will everything change in the U.K. as well?

    It had seemed as though the U.K. would go along with the rest of Europe and opt for managed risk mitigation. But that changed a week ago, when the U.K.'s spy agency published a scathing report on the Huawei's security through its dedicated Huawei Cyber Security Evaluation Centre (HCSEC), reporting that it "continued to identify concerning issues in Huawei’s approach to software development bringing significantly increased risk to U.K. operators."

    These issues were first raised last year, but the latest report claims that "no material progress has been made on the issues raised in the previous 2018 report... meaning limited assurances that all risks to U.K. national security from Huawei’s involvement in the UK’s critical networks can be sufficiently mitigated long-term."

    And now to the latest twist in the saga. On Monday, a senior official with the U.K.'s spy agency slammed equipment from Huawei as "like nothing else - it's engineering like it's back in the year 2000 - it's very, very shoddy," adding that "we've seen nothing to give us any confidence that the transformation programme is going to do what they say it's going to do."

    Why would any company take a chance on Huawei? Oh yeah, cost and availability. 

    National Security requires better than that.


    Hogwash. Literally.

    African Union : anonymous sources (once again!). China described the accusations as absurd. There is nothing more. If you have something, present it.

    Pakistan Wireless Modules: Come on! Wireless modules. We're not even talking about rice grains here. LOL! How could any security team let that one go unnoticed? As for Huawei, you can imagine the answer.

    HCSEC: Do you know how long the 'CELL' has been operative? It's job is to highlight this stuff. In fact, if you had been paying attention, you would have known this was brought up at the start of the year and Huawei pledged two billion pounds to improve the areas highlighted in the original report but said it would take between two and five years. The only reason the report was possible precisely because Huawei gives access to the code. Can you see the positives of that?

    The only way for things to be compared is if other manufacturers provide the same access to their code.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 93 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,762member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    JWSC said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    Yea, just like we trusted the CIA, G.W. Bush and company, the New York Times, and CNN when they told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

    There were repeated claims that Huawei had engineered a chip that could act as a conduit for the Chinese spy agencies.  Over and over this was repeated.   And we got nothing.  Where’s your spider sense in all this?  Somethings not right.

    For my own part, I can’t say one way or another if Huawei’s CEO is ‘chummy’ with some key spooks in China.  Odds are that they have had ongoing conversations over the years.  If I was a Chinese spook I’d want to know what my high tech telecom company was doing and if they could do anything for me.  So I am not exonerating Huawei and I would not feel comfortable with their product in my phone.
    Under that criteria, you shouldn't feel comfortable with any components from any company in your phone.

    BTW,  there are reports that Tim Cook has met with Donald Trump and has had dealings with U.S. intelligence and justice personnel.   Maybe your next phone should be a Samsung?

    Ah, yea, I’ll be sure to let you know when I switch to Samsung.

    Meanwhile, my main beef with the Huawei reporting is that it has been based upon unsubstantiated reports of Huawei hardware spying surreptitiously with computer hardware.  It’s was repeated as fact but was never substantiated.  That happens a lot these days and I find it annoying.

    But I can tell you from first hand experience that the Chinese State is actively working with many notionally ‘private’ Chinese companies to advance state objectives - whatever they may be.  And that includes widespread theft of IP, which is what I’m most familiar with.  This has been systematic across both commercial and defense sectors, with many thousands of attempted cyberattacks every day.  So, suspicion is warranted.

    Again, there was a story about the African Union Headquarters that Huawei provided the servers for and managed, sending data every day in the early morning to Shanghai.
    That's not proof of spying, but it certainly is suspicious that Huawei did nothing about it.

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/29/16946802/china-african-union-spying-hq-cybersecurity-computers-backdoors-espionage

    There is also the story in Pakistan of a wireless setup on a telecom site that appeared to be redundant. That wasn't necessarily for spying, but it definitely was removed once it was noticed.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/04/08/did-the-u-s-just-publicly-back-down-from-its-fight-with-huawei-in-europe/#7ecfd8f249dd

    "The U.K. claims were made in a BBC documentary broadcast on Monday evening. The same program reported on the detection and removal of seemingly hidden wi-fi cards inside the CCTV cabinets deployed in a safe city project in Pakistan. The equipment was supplied by Huawei and is exactly the kind of risk that has underpinned concerns expressed by the U.S. and elsewhere."

    Then there's this;

    "Will everything change in the U.K. as well?

    It had seemed as though the U.K. would go along with the rest of Europe and opt for managed risk mitigation. But that changed a week ago, when the U.K.'s spy agency published a scathing report on the Huawei's security through its dedicated Huawei Cyber Security Evaluation Centre (HCSEC), reporting that it "continued to identify concerning issues in Huawei’s approach to software development bringing significantly increased risk to U.K. operators."

    These issues were first raised last year, but the latest report claims that "no material progress has been made on the issues raised in the previous 2018 report... meaning limited assurances that all risks to U.K. national security from Huawei’s involvement in the UK’s critical networks can be sufficiently mitigated long-term."

    And now to the latest twist in the saga. On Monday, a senior official with the U.K.'s spy agency slammed equipment from Huawei as "like nothing else - it's engineering like it's back in the year 2000 - it's very, very shoddy," adding that "we've seen nothing to give us any confidence that the transformation programme is going to do what they say it's going to do."

    Why would any company take a chance on Huawei? Oh yeah, cost and availability. 

    National Security requires better than that.


    Hogwash. Literally.

    African Union : anonymous sources (once again!). China described the accusations as absurd. There is nothing more. If you have something, present it.

    Pakistan Wireless Modules: Come on! Wireless modules. We're not even talking about rice grains here. LOL! How could any security team let that one go unnoticed? As for Huawei, you can imagine the answer.

    HCSEC: Do you know how long the 'CELL' has been operative? It's job is to highlight this stuff. In fact, if you had been paying attention, you would have known this was brought up at the start of the year and Huawei pledged two billion pounds to improve the areas highlighted in the original report but said it would take between two and five years. The only reason the report was possible precisely because Huawei gives access to the code. Can you see the positives of that?

    The only way for things to be compared is if other manufacturers provide the same access to their code.
    You haven't disproved any of what I posted, and for a fact, that statement was quite recent, and doesn't assign a great deal of confidence to Huawei.

    But of course, you believe what you believe.
  • Reply 94 of 101
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,796member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    Really. Have you heard the other side of the story? I haven't.

    This is from the Bloomberg article describing the so-called 'sting':

    "Khan and Shurboff don’t know how the story will end. It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

    On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. “I think they’re identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business,” Khan says. “I wouldn’t say they’re discriminating.”

    There's a lot of speculation in the whole thing. Perhaps logical as this type of article needs some sauce to keep readers interested and they only have one version of what went on.

    However, at the end (quoted above) reality sets in and it is revealed that the 'sting' might be so weak as to lead to - nothing. Something that would be very surprising given the lengths the FBI is going to unearth something - anything!

    Either way, it would be wise to wait for the other side of the story, and possible court case before claiming evidence of wrongdoing exists.

    From reading your post you make it sound like things are crystal clear. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

    It's a mystery how you can claim there is 'evidence' of doing something wrong when, AFAIK, a case hasn't even been brought and you haven't heard the whole story.


    There is absolutely evidence of a crime. Whether it is pursued by authorities is another matter.

    Your spin doesn't let Huawei off the hook.
    What was the crime? They even denied ITAR was relevant. 
    https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3070479/huawei-in-fbi-sting-at-ces-after-allegedly-reverse-engineering-another-product

    "So, one cold January day, Akhan and the FBI went to Vegas, armed with hidden cameras and microphones, and set to work as a reporter from Bloomberg watched as an impartial observer from a safe distance (and FBI - if you're listening, keep us in mind for future stings, we'd love that).

    The loan of the sample was made under strict rules - that it not be tampered with, that it be returned promptly and that it didn't leave the US. During the sting, recorded on tape, a Huawei executive admitted that the company had broken the agreement by exporting the sample, and whilst there's no admission of the reverse engineering aspect, it will be interesting to see if Huawei unveils a new sort of glass for the P30 and foldable expected to launch in the coming weeks.

    The sting was not apparently connected to the 23 federal charges against Huawei that were filed recently, but rather serve to illustrate the point that, whatever else Huawei has or hasn't done, its business ethics in this matter don't paint it in a very good light. In fact it's a bit like using black paint to touch up Darth Vader's mask, in a blackout, in a black hole. That's pretty bad light right there."

    Huawei isn't the "good guys" that you keep stating; they are thieves. That they aren't, yet anyway, indicted for this doesn't change that fact. The event happened.

    And the crime?
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 95 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,762member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    Really. Have you heard the other side of the story? I haven't.

    This is from the Bloomberg article describing the so-called 'sting':

    "Khan and Shurboff don’t know how the story will end. It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

    On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. “I think they’re identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business,” Khan says. “I wouldn’t say they’re discriminating.”

    There's a lot of speculation in the whole thing. Perhaps logical as this type of article needs some sauce to keep readers interested and they only have one version of what went on.

    However, at the end (quoted above) reality sets in and it is revealed that the 'sting' might be so weak as to lead to - nothing. Something that would be very surprising given the lengths the FBI is going to unearth something - anything!

    Either way, it would be wise to wait for the other side of the story, and possible court case before claiming evidence of wrongdoing exists.

    From reading your post you make it sound like things are crystal clear. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

    It's a mystery how you can claim there is 'evidence' of doing something wrong when, AFAIK, a case hasn't even been brought and you haven't heard the whole story.


    There is absolutely evidence of a crime. Whether it is pursued by authorities is another matter.

    Your spin doesn't let Huawei off the hook.
    What was the crime? They even denied ITAR was relevant. 
    https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3070479/huawei-in-fbi-sting-at-ces-after-allegedly-reverse-engineering-another-product

    "So, one cold January day, Akhan and the FBI went to Vegas, armed with hidden cameras and microphones, and set to work as a reporter from Bloomberg watched as an impartial observer from a safe distance (and FBI - if you're listening, keep us in mind for future stings, we'd love that).

    The loan of the sample was made under strict rules - that it not be tampered with, that it be returned promptly and that it didn't leave the US. During the sting, recorded on tape, a Huawei executive admitted that the company had broken the agreement by exporting the sample, and whilst there's no admission of the reverse engineering aspect, it will be interesting to see if Huawei unveils a new sort of glass for the P30 and foldable expected to launch in the coming weeks.

    The sting was not apparently connected to the 23 federal charges against Huawei that were filed recently, but rather serve to illustrate the point that, whatever else Huawei has or hasn't done, its business ethics in this matter don't paint it in a very good light. In fact it's a bit like using black paint to touch up Darth Vader's mask, in a blackout, in a black hole. That's pretty bad light right there."

    Huawei isn't the "good guys" that you keep stating; they are thieves. That they aren't, yet anyway, indicted for this doesn't change that fact. The event happened.

    And the crime?
    You make me laugh.

    Fuckers got caught; sent the sample to China to get analyzed by Material Scientists with the proper equipment; hence why it came back damaged. I don't recall if all of the shards were accounted for, but I doubt it.

    Thieves.

    Here's the source article;

    https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/fbi-ran-sting-against-huawei-in-new-technology-theft-case/ar-BBTbwlD?li=BBr8Cnr

    and another;

    https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/285152-fbi-allegedly-ran-sting-operation-on-huawei-at-ces

    "Several weeks passed, and the FBI rendered a verdict. Khan and Shurboff say the FBI researcher found that the sample had been hit with a 100-kilowatt laser, which is powerful enough to be used as a weapon. The agency asked Khan and Shurboff to continue their contact with Huawei and meet with the company’s representatives at CES in January to record their conversation. A Bloomberg reporter observed this meeting from a distance. 

    During that meeting, the Huawei representatives denied that sending the sample to China was a violation of ITAR but continued to express interest in licensing Akhan’s diamond glass. The FBI ultimately raided Huawei’s San Diego facility on January 28th, but we don’t yet know if there is good evidence of wrongdoing. 

    Khan and Shurboff initially wanted to keep the situation under wraps until the investigation ran its course, but a chance meeting with another potential glass customer at CES made that impossible. Shurboff had to give this contact an awkward brush-off because of the sting operation, and the company worried that would affect its ability to license the tech. So, we’re getting one side of the story right now. We’ll have to wait for the rest."

    You hanging with thieves now?

    edited April 16
  • Reply 96 of 101
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,796member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    Really. Have you heard the other side of the story? I haven't.

    This is from the Bloomberg article describing the so-called 'sting':

    "Khan and Shurboff don’t know how the story will end. It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

    On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. “I think they’re identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business,” Khan says. “I wouldn’t say they’re discriminating.”

    There's a lot of speculation in the whole thing. Perhaps logical as this type of article needs some sauce to keep readers interested and they only have one version of what went on.

    However, at the end (quoted above) reality sets in and it is revealed that the 'sting' might be so weak as to lead to - nothing. Something that would be very surprising given the lengths the FBI is going to unearth something - anything!

    Either way, it would be wise to wait for the other side of the story, and possible court case before claiming evidence of wrongdoing exists.

    From reading your post you make it sound like things are crystal clear. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

    It's a mystery how you can claim there is 'evidence' of doing something wrong when, AFAIK, a case hasn't even been brought and you haven't heard the whole story.


    There is absolutely evidence of a crime. Whether it is pursued by authorities is another matter.

    Your spin doesn't let Huawei off the hook.
    What was the crime? They even denied ITAR was relevant. 
    https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3070479/huawei-in-fbi-sting-at-ces-after-allegedly-reverse-engineering-another-product

    "So, one cold January day, Akhan and the FBI went to Vegas, armed with hidden cameras and microphones, and set to work as a reporter from Bloomberg watched as an impartial observer from a safe distance (and FBI - if you're listening, keep us in mind for future stings, we'd love that).

    The loan of the sample was made under strict rules - that it not be tampered with, that it be returned promptly and that it didn't leave the US. During the sting, recorded on tape, a Huawei executive admitted that the company had broken the agreement by exporting the sample, and whilst there's no admission of the reverse engineering aspect, it will be interesting to see if Huawei unveils a new sort of glass for the P30 and foldable expected to launch in the coming weeks.

    The sting was not apparently connected to the 23 federal charges against Huawei that were filed recently, but rather serve to illustrate the point that, whatever else Huawei has or hasn't done, its business ethics in this matter don't paint it in a very good light. In fact it's a bit like using black paint to touch up Darth Vader's mask, in a blackout, in a black hole. That's pretty bad light right there."

    Huawei isn't the "good guys" that you keep stating; they are thieves. That they aren't, yet anyway, indicted for this doesn't change that fact. The event happened.

    And the crime?
    You make me laugh.

    Fuckers got caught; sent the sample to China to get analyzed by Material Scientists with the proper equipment; hence why it came back damaged. I don't recall if all of the shards were accounted for, but I doubt it.

    Thieves.

    Here's the source article;

    https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/fbi-ran-sting-against-huawei-in-new-technology-theft-case/ar-BBTbwlD?li=BBr8Cnr

    and another;

    https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/285152-fbi-allegedly-ran-sting-operation-on-huawei-at-ces

    "Several weeks passed, and the FBI rendered a verdict. Khan and Shurboff say the FBI researcher found that the sample had been hit with a 100-kilowatt laser, which is powerful enough to be used as a weapon. The agency asked Khan and Shurboff to continue their contact with Huawei and meet with the company’s representatives at CES in January to record their conversation. A Bloomberg reporter observed this meeting from a distance. 

    During that meeting, the Huawei representatives denied that sending the sample to China was a violation of ITAR but continued to express interest in licensing Akhan’s diamond glass. The FBI ultimately raided Huawei’s San Diego facility on January 28th, but we don’t yet know if there is good evidence of wrongdoing. 

    Khan and Shurboff initially wanted to keep the situation under wraps until the investigation ran its course, but a chance meeting with another potential glass customer at CES made that impossible. Shurboff had to give this contact an awkward brush-off because of the sting operation, and the company worried that would affect its ability to license the tech. So, we’re getting one side of the story right now. We’ll have to wait for the rest."

    You hanging with thieves now?

    Laugh all you want but where is the crime?

    As I said, the ITAR reference was covered, AFAIK, no charge has been brought and you know nothing about what the other side thinks. You haven't heard it.

    At most you - think - a crime was committed but that is very different to what you actually said and subsequently tried to support.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 97 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,762member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    Really. Have you heard the other side of the story? I haven't.

    This is from the Bloomberg article describing the so-called 'sting':

    "Khan and Shurboff don’t know how the story will end. It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

    On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. “I think they’re identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business,” Khan says. “I wouldn’t say they’re discriminating.”

    There's a lot of speculation in the whole thing. Perhaps logical as this type of article needs some sauce to keep readers interested and they only have one version of what went on.

    However, at the end (quoted above) reality sets in and it is revealed that the 'sting' might be so weak as to lead to - nothing. Something that would be very surprising given the lengths the FBI is going to unearth something - anything!

    Either way, it would be wise to wait for the other side of the story, and possible court case before claiming evidence of wrongdoing exists.

    From reading your post you make it sound like things are crystal clear. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

    It's a mystery how you can claim there is 'evidence' of doing something wrong when, AFAIK, a case hasn't even been brought and you haven't heard the whole story.


    There is absolutely evidence of a crime. Whether it is pursued by authorities is another matter.

    Your spin doesn't let Huawei off the hook.
    What was the crime? They even denied ITAR was relevant. 
    https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3070479/huawei-in-fbi-sting-at-ces-after-allegedly-reverse-engineering-another-product

    "So, one cold January day, Akhan and the FBI went to Vegas, armed with hidden cameras and microphones, and set to work as a reporter from Bloomberg watched as an impartial observer from a safe distance (and FBI - if you're listening, keep us in mind for future stings, we'd love that).

    The loan of the sample was made under strict rules - that it not be tampered with, that it be returned promptly and that it didn't leave the US. During the sting, recorded on tape, a Huawei executive admitted that the company had broken the agreement by exporting the sample, and whilst there's no admission of the reverse engineering aspect, it will be interesting to see if Huawei unveils a new sort of glass for the P30 and foldable expected to launch in the coming weeks.

    The sting was not apparently connected to the 23 federal charges against Huawei that were filed recently, but rather serve to illustrate the point that, whatever else Huawei has or hasn't done, its business ethics in this matter don't paint it in a very good light. In fact it's a bit like using black paint to touch up Darth Vader's mask, in a blackout, in a black hole. That's pretty bad light right there."

    Huawei isn't the "good guys" that you keep stating; they are thieves. That they aren't, yet anyway, indicted for this doesn't change that fact. The event happened.

    And the crime?
    You make me laugh.

    Fuckers got caught; sent the sample to China to get analyzed by Material Scientists with the proper equipment; hence why it came back damaged. I don't recall if all of the shards were accounted for, but I doubt it.

    Thieves.

    Here's the source article;

    https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/fbi-ran-sting-against-huawei-in-new-technology-theft-case/ar-BBTbwlD?li=BBr8Cnr

    and another;

    https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/285152-fbi-allegedly-ran-sting-operation-on-huawei-at-ces

    "Several weeks passed, and the FBI rendered a verdict. Khan and Shurboff say the FBI researcher found that the sample had been hit with a 100-kilowatt laser, which is powerful enough to be used as a weapon. The agency asked Khan and Shurboff to continue their contact with Huawei and meet with the company’s representatives at CES in January to record their conversation. A Bloomberg reporter observed this meeting from a distance. 

    During that meeting, the Huawei representatives denied that sending the sample to China was a violation of ITAR but continued to express interest in licensing Akhan’s diamond glass. The FBI ultimately raided Huawei’s San Diego facility on January 28th, but we don’t yet know if there is good evidence of wrongdoing. 

    Khan and Shurboff initially wanted to keep the situation under wraps until the investigation ran its course, but a chance meeting with another potential glass customer at CES made that impossible. Shurboff had to give this contact an awkward brush-off because of the sting operation, and the company worried that would affect its ability to license the tech. So, we’re getting one side of the story right now. We’ll have to wait for the rest."

    You hanging with thieves now?

    Laugh all you want but where is the crime?

    As I said, the ITAR reference was covered, AFAIK, no charge has been brought and you know nothing about what the other side thinks. You haven't heard it.

    At most you - think - a crime was committed but that is very different to what you actually said and subsequently tried to support.
    That made me laugh even more!

    Do you even have any morals left to give up to Huawei?

    You're like in TunneVision World!
    edited April 16
  • Reply 98 of 101
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,796member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    Really. Have you heard the other side of the story? I haven't.

    This is from the Bloomberg article describing the so-called 'sting':

    "Khan and Shurboff don’t know how the story will end. It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

    On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. “I think they’re identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business,” Khan says. “I wouldn’t say they’re discriminating.”

    There's a lot of speculation in the whole thing. Perhaps logical as this type of article needs some sauce to keep readers interested and they only have one version of what went on.

    However, at the end (quoted above) reality sets in and it is revealed that the 'sting' might be so weak as to lead to - nothing. Something that would be very surprising given the lengths the FBI is going to unearth something - anything!

    Either way, it would be wise to wait for the other side of the story, and possible court case before claiming evidence of wrongdoing exists.

    From reading your post you make it sound like things are crystal clear. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

    It's a mystery how you can claim there is 'evidence' of doing something wrong when, AFAIK, a case hasn't even been brought and you haven't heard the whole story.


    There is absolutely evidence of a crime. Whether it is pursued by authorities is another matter.

    Your spin doesn't let Huawei off the hook.
    What was the crime? They even denied ITAR was relevant. 
    https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3070479/huawei-in-fbi-sting-at-ces-after-allegedly-reverse-engineering-another-product

    "So, one cold January day, Akhan and the FBI went to Vegas, armed with hidden cameras and microphones, and set to work as a reporter from Bloomberg watched as an impartial observer from a safe distance (and FBI - if you're listening, keep us in mind for future stings, we'd love that).

    The loan of the sample was made under strict rules - that it not be tampered with, that it be returned promptly and that it didn't leave the US. During the sting, recorded on tape, a Huawei executive admitted that the company had broken the agreement by exporting the sample, and whilst there's no admission of the reverse engineering aspect, it will be interesting to see if Huawei unveils a new sort of glass for the P30 and foldable expected to launch in the coming weeks.

    The sting was not apparently connected to the 23 federal charges against Huawei that were filed recently, but rather serve to illustrate the point that, whatever else Huawei has or hasn't done, its business ethics in this matter don't paint it in a very good light. In fact it's a bit like using black paint to touch up Darth Vader's mask, in a blackout, in a black hole. That's pretty bad light right there."

    Huawei isn't the "good guys" that you keep stating; they are thieves. That they aren't, yet anyway, indicted for this doesn't change that fact. The event happened.

    And the crime?
    You make me laugh.

    Fuckers got caught; sent the sample to China to get analyzed by Material Scientists with the proper equipment; hence why it came back damaged. I don't recall if all of the shards were accounted for, but I doubt it.

    Thieves.

    Here's the source article;

    https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/fbi-ran-sting-against-huawei-in-new-technology-theft-case/ar-BBTbwlD?li=BBr8Cnr

    and another;

    https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/285152-fbi-allegedly-ran-sting-operation-on-huawei-at-ces

    "Several weeks passed, and the FBI rendered a verdict. Khan and Shurboff say the FBI researcher found that the sample had been hit with a 100-kilowatt laser, which is powerful enough to be used as a weapon. The agency asked Khan and Shurboff to continue their contact with Huawei and meet with the company’s representatives at CES in January to record their conversation. A Bloomberg reporter observed this meeting from a distance. 

    During that meeting, the Huawei representatives denied that sending the sample to China was a violation of ITAR but continued to express interest in licensing Akhan’s diamond glass. The FBI ultimately raided Huawei’s San Diego facility on January 28th, but we don’t yet know if there is good evidence of wrongdoing. 

    Khan and Shurboff initially wanted to keep the situation under wraps until the investigation ran its course, but a chance meeting with another potential glass customer at CES made that impossible. Shurboff had to give this contact an awkward brush-off because of the sting operation, and the company worried that would affect its ability to license the tech. So, we’re getting one side of the story right now. We’ll have to wait for the rest."

    You hanging with thieves now?

    Laugh all you want but where is the crime?

    As I said, the ITAR reference was covered, AFAIK, no charge has been brought and you know nothing about what the other side thinks. You haven't heard it.

    At most you - think - a crime was committed but that is very different to what you actually said and subsequently tried to support.
    That made me laugh even more!

    Do you even have any morals left to give up to Huawei?

    Your like in TunneVision World!
    You mean listening to both sides of a story before making absolute claims?

    Unfortunately, you haven't answered the question, so people will now make up their own minds on who is presenting things in a balanced manner.


    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 99 of 101
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,762member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    Really. Have you heard the other side of the story? I haven't.

    This is from the Bloomberg article describing the so-called 'sting':

    "Khan and Shurboff don’t know how the story will end. It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

    On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. “I think they’re identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business,” Khan says. “I wouldn’t say they’re discriminating.”

    There's a lot of speculation in the whole thing. Perhaps logical as this type of article needs some sauce to keep readers interested and they only have one version of what went on.

    However, at the end (quoted above) reality sets in and it is revealed that the 'sting' might be so weak as to lead to - nothing. Something that would be very surprising given the lengths the FBI is going to unearth something - anything!

    Either way, it would be wise to wait for the other side of the story, and possible court case before claiming evidence of wrongdoing exists.

    From reading your post you make it sound like things are crystal clear. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

    It's a mystery how you can claim there is 'evidence' of doing something wrong when, AFAIK, a case hasn't even been brought and you haven't heard the whole story.


    There is absolutely evidence of a crime. Whether it is pursued by authorities is another matter.

    Your spin doesn't let Huawei off the hook.
    What was the crime? They even denied ITAR was relevant. 
    https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3070479/huawei-in-fbi-sting-at-ces-after-allegedly-reverse-engineering-another-product

    "So, one cold January day, Akhan and the FBI went to Vegas, armed with hidden cameras and microphones, and set to work as a reporter from Bloomberg watched as an impartial observer from a safe distance (and FBI - if you're listening, keep us in mind for future stings, we'd love that).

    The loan of the sample was made under strict rules - that it not be tampered with, that it be returned promptly and that it didn't leave the US. During the sting, recorded on tape, a Huawei executive admitted that the company had broken the agreement by exporting the sample, and whilst there's no admission of the reverse engineering aspect, it will be interesting to see if Huawei unveils a new sort of glass for the P30 and foldable expected to launch in the coming weeks.

    The sting was not apparently connected to the 23 federal charges against Huawei that were filed recently, but rather serve to illustrate the point that, whatever else Huawei has or hasn't done, its business ethics in this matter don't paint it in a very good light. In fact it's a bit like using black paint to touch up Darth Vader's mask, in a blackout, in a black hole. That's pretty bad light right there."

    Huawei isn't the "good guys" that you keep stating; they are thieves. That they aren't, yet anyway, indicted for this doesn't change that fact. The event happened.

    And the crime?
    You make me laugh.

    Fuckers got caught; sent the sample to China to get analyzed by Material Scientists with the proper equipment; hence why it came back damaged. I don't recall if all of the shards were accounted for, but I doubt it.

    Thieves.

    Here's the source article;

    https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/fbi-ran-sting-against-huawei-in-new-technology-theft-case/ar-BBTbwlD?li=BBr8Cnr

    and another;

    https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/285152-fbi-allegedly-ran-sting-operation-on-huawei-at-ces

    "Several weeks passed, and the FBI rendered a verdict. Khan and Shurboff say the FBI researcher found that the sample had been hit with a 100-kilowatt laser, which is powerful enough to be used as a weapon. The agency asked Khan and Shurboff to continue their contact with Huawei and meet with the company’s representatives at CES in January to record their conversation. A Bloomberg reporter observed this meeting from a distance. 

    During that meeting, the Huawei representatives denied that sending the sample to China was a violation of ITAR but continued to express interest in licensing Akhan’s diamond glass. The FBI ultimately raided Huawei’s San Diego facility on January 28th, but we don’t yet know if there is good evidence of wrongdoing. 

    Khan and Shurboff initially wanted to keep the situation under wraps until the investigation ran its course, but a chance meeting with another potential glass customer at CES made that impossible. Shurboff had to give this contact an awkward brush-off because of the sting operation, and the company worried that would affect its ability to license the tech. So, we’re getting one side of the story right now. We’ll have to wait for the rest."

    You hanging with thieves now?

    Laugh all you want but where is the crime?

    As I said, the ITAR reference was covered, AFAIK, no charge has been brought and you know nothing about what the other side thinks. You haven't heard it.

    At most you - think - a crime was committed but that is very different to what you actually said and subsequently tried to support.
    That made me laugh even more!

    Do you even have any morals left to give up to Huawei?

    Your like in TunneVision World!
    You mean listening to both sides of a story before making absolute claims?

    Unfortunately, you haven't answered the question, so people will now make up their own minds on who is presenting things in a balanced manner.


    Huawei absolutely violated the agreement for the sample.

    There isn't any other side to the story except how they physically violated it and why.

    I have a very low opinion of you to begin with, but sticking by thieves is pretty low.
  • Reply 100 of 101
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,796member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    JWSC said:
    avon b7 said:

    As long as the Feds have a espionage warning on Huawei, Apple ain't  gonna put Huawei chips in their products. Any attempt will just make the spooks more suspicious.
    The "Feds" don't.   Trump does.  But his propaganda machine could scare people off.
    The "Feds" and the Congress sure do. Going back to at least 2011-12. 

    I am not going to bother with giving you any links, since I have little doubt that you know how to do an internet search.
    And all these years later they still have nothing. Off the record they are even admitting as much. 

    It has been said time and time again, anyone involved in spying doesn't care which hardware is being run.

    If anything, Huawei's products are likely to be more secure as, not only are they scrutinised more but when issues are found, solutions are demanded of them.

    Apple would have more to gain than lose, not least in time to market.
    Groan, you Huawei apologists are back out in force again.

    1) Please send a link on who's admitting what "off the record." Otherwise, delete the post.

    2) "They have nothing"? We'll see when Meng Wanzhou shows up in a US court. (Canada's formally started the extradition proceedings, as you likely know). Until then, I'd advise you to hold spouting off.

    While I won’t go so far as to claim that Huawei is all sunshine and roses, no one who has accused them of being a willing vassal of the Chinese spy agencies has produced a smoking gun - actual hardware designed to surreptitiously spy on a user.  And people have been looking.

    What smoking gun evidence did the CIA and others provide for Russian meddling in our election? I never saw it. Yet we trust their reports. You trusted them then, but not now. That’s irrational. 
    False Equivalency there....
    In the case of the Russian attack our entire intelligence community confirmed beyond any doubt that Russia not only had attacked our country with disinformation and cyberwarfare campaigns but it was an ongoing attack that continued (at least) through our 2018 midterms.

    In the case of Huawei, a few said that they should not be trusted because of possible past or future ties to the Chinese intelligence and Communist Party.  But, no evidence was ever provided that Huawei had actually done something wrong or would in the future.   It was all supposiition.

    The analogy might be Albert Einstein where the FBI accumulated a 1,400 page dossier on him mostly as a result of investigations stemming from repeated accusations that he was a Communist spy.  But, in every instance no evidence was ever found to prove the claims...
    Huawei was implicated in IP theft in the U.S., caught in a IP theft sting operation by the FBI, so yes, evidence has been provided of Huawei doing "something wrong".
    Really. Have you heard the other side of the story? I haven't.

    This is from the Bloomberg article describing the so-called 'sting':

    "Khan and Shurboff don’t know how the story will end. It’s possible that the government will conclude there aren’t grounds for an indictment against Huawei. Prosecutors also could decide that what happened to Akhan isn’t serious enough to seek charges. If that’s so, it raises a question about the broader U.S. crackdown on Huawei: Is it based on hard evidence of wrongdoing or driven by a desperation to catch the Chinese company doing something—anything—bad?

    On the other hand, if the government does conclude that Akhan was attacked, that a Chinese multinational really did target a tiny Chicago company with no revenue and no customers (as of yet), it would show just how far and wide Huawei is willing to go to steal American trade secrets. “I think they’re identifying technologies that are key to their road map and going after them no matter what the size or scale or status of the business,” Khan says. “I wouldn’t say they’re discriminating.”

    There's a lot of speculation in the whole thing. Perhaps logical as this type of article needs some sauce to keep readers interested and they only have one version of what went on.

    However, at the end (quoted above) reality sets in and it is revealed that the 'sting' might be so weak as to lead to - nothing. Something that would be very surprising given the lengths the FBI is going to unearth something - anything!

    Either way, it would be wise to wait for the other side of the story, and possible court case before claiming evidence of wrongdoing exists.

    From reading your post you make it sound like things are crystal clear. They aren't. Not by a long shot.

    It's a mystery how you can claim there is 'evidence' of doing something wrong when, AFAIK, a case hasn't even been brought and you haven't heard the whole story.


    There is absolutely evidence of a crime. Whether it is pursued by authorities is another matter.

    Your spin doesn't let Huawei off the hook.
    What was the crime? They even denied ITAR was relevant. 
    https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3070479/huawei-in-fbi-sting-at-ces-after-allegedly-reverse-engineering-another-product

    "So, one cold January day, Akhan and the FBI went to Vegas, armed with hidden cameras and microphones, and set to work as a reporter from Bloomberg watched as an impartial observer from a safe distance (and FBI - if you're listening, keep us in mind for future stings, we'd love that).

    The loan of the sample was made under strict rules - that it not be tampered with, that it be returned promptly and that it didn't leave the US. During the sting, recorded on tape, a Huawei executive admitted that the company had broken the agreement by exporting the sample, and whilst there's no admission of the reverse engineering aspect, it will be interesting to see if Huawei unveils a new sort of glass for the P30 and foldable expected to launch in the coming weeks.

    The sting was not apparently connected to the 23 federal charges against Huawei that were filed recently, but rather serve to illustrate the point that, whatever else Huawei has or hasn't done, its business ethics in this matter don't paint it in a very good light. In fact it's a bit like using black paint to touch up Darth Vader's mask, in a blackout, in a black hole. That's pretty bad light right there."

    Huawei isn't the "good guys" that you keep stating; they are thieves. That they aren't, yet anyway, indicted for this doesn't change that fact. The event happened.

    And the crime?
    You make me laugh.

    Fuckers got caught; sent the sample to China to get analyzed by Material Scientists with the proper equipment; hence why it came back damaged. I don't recall if all of the shards were accounted for, but I doubt it.

    Thieves.

    Here's the source article;

    https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/fbi-ran-sting-against-huawei-in-new-technology-theft-case/ar-BBTbwlD?li=BBr8Cnr

    and another;

    https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/285152-fbi-allegedly-ran-sting-operation-on-huawei-at-ces

    "Several weeks passed, and the FBI rendered a verdict. Khan and Shurboff say the FBI researcher found that the sample had been hit with a 100-kilowatt laser, which is powerful enough to be used as a weapon. The agency asked Khan and Shurboff to continue their contact with Huawei and meet with the company’s representatives at CES in January to record their conversation. A Bloomberg reporter observed this meeting from a distance. 

    During that meeting, the Huawei representatives denied that sending the sample to China was a violation of ITAR but continued to express interest in licensing Akhan’s diamond glass. The FBI ultimately raided Huawei’s San Diego facility on January 28th, but we don’t yet know if there is good evidence of wrongdoing. 

    Khan and Shurboff initially wanted to keep the situation under wraps until the investigation ran its course, but a chance meeting with another potential glass customer at CES made that impossible. Shurboff had to give this contact an awkward brush-off because of the sting operation, and the company worried that would affect its ability to license the tech. So, we’re getting one side of the story right now. We’ll have to wait for the rest."

    You hanging with thieves now?

    Laugh all you want but where is the crime?

    As I said, the ITAR reference was covered, AFAIK, no charge has been brought and you know nothing about what the other side thinks. You haven't heard it.

    At most you - think - a crime was committed but that is very different to what you actually said and subsequently tried to support.
    That made me laugh even more!

    Do you even have any morals left to give up to Huawei?

    Your like in TunneVision World!
    You mean listening to both sides of a story before making absolute claims?

    Unfortunately, you haven't answered the question, so people will now make up their own minds on who is presenting things in a balanced manner.


    Huawei absolutely violated the agreement for the sample.

    There isn't any other side to the story except how they physically violated it and why.

    I have a very low opinion of you to begin with, but sticking by thieves is pretty low.
    Reality is setting in. Instead of a crime, it's now 'violating an agreement'.

    Did we ever actually get to see that agreement? If not, you still have no version from Huawei to contrast the claims with and of course a non-existent 'crime'.

    I don't 'stick' by anybody but when I only have one side of a story I try not to get carried away.
    edited April 16
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