Everything you need to know about 5G on your iPhone 12

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  • Reply 21 of 54
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member


    Stand someplace outside and and aim a laser pointer at a telephone pole. If your vision is okay, and you can see the dot at night, in theory, that spot you're standing on can receive mmWave broadcasts from hardware on that pole, after installation.

    ...
    Alright!  
    I have three separate telephone poles, each well within 75 feet of my house, that I can easily hit with a laser pointer.

    So, what's the problem?
  • Reply 22 of 54
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,858administrator


    Stand someplace outside and and aim a laser pointer at a telephone pole. If your vision is okay, and you can see the dot at night, in theory, that spot you're standing on can receive mmWave broadcasts from hardware on that pole, after installation.

    ...
    Alright!  
    I have three separate telephone poles, each well within 75 feet of my house, that I can easily hit with a laser pointer.

    So, what's the problem?
    Read the next paragraph.

    FTA:" We mentioned the laser pointer test being performed outside. There's a reason for this -- unlike 4G LTE, mmWave is easily blocked by walls, glass, some metal screens on windows, tree leaves, rain, and other obstructions including the human body. This makes mmWave able to be used for fixed-point communications between buildings, or wirelessly from a telephone pole to a 5G modem on the outside of your house, but less useful for a smartphone used indoors."

    And, you don't need to hit a 4G tower with the laser pointer for signal.
    edited May 2019
  • Reply 23 of 54
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member


    Stand someplace outside and and aim a laser pointer at a telephone pole. If your vision is okay, and you can see the dot at night, in theory, that spot you're standing on can receive mmWave broadcasts from hardware on that pole, after installation.

    ...
    Alright!  
    I have three separate telephone poles, each well within 75 feet of my house, that I can easily hit with a laser pointer.

    So, what's the problem?
    Read the next paragraph.

    FTA:" We mentioned the laser pointer test being performed outside. There's a reason for this -- unlike 4G LTE, mmWave is easily blocked by walls, glass, some metal screens on windows, tree leaves, rain, and other obstructions including the human body. This makes mmWave able to be used for fixed-point communications between buildings, or wirelessly from a telephone pole to a 5G modem on the outside of your house, but less useful for a smartphone used indoors."

    And, you don't need to hit a 4G tower with the laser pointer for signal.
    ... and with horses and buggies we didn't need paved roads...
    mwhite
  • Reply 24 of 54
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,911member
    DAalseth said:
    For the record, here in Nanaimo on Vancouver Island it was only a few years ago we got 4G LTE. I ain't holding my breath for 5G
    Like any technology, the urban centers will see it first with widespread coverage taking years. The nature of the mmWave features of 5G mean that rural areas will probably never see it, though. There's just no way to justify the costs of putting up the required number of antennae in sparsely populated areas.

    Pars33ker said:
    Millimeter waves don’t defract (bend around objects like poles, people), they are strictly line of sight and are profoundly disturbed by practically everything in the field: moving and stationary. I don’t see how the mm waveband can be deployed for general wireless communications, at least not in the foreseeable future. Could the need to appease the markets be causing mass delusion?
    That's one of the features of 5G ove the older protocols:  5G is software driven and can be targeted so the right signal gets to the right device at the right time.
    The old way of blasting a signal out everywhere in every direction, whether there was a device to receive it or not, is going away.  It was just too inefficient.
    From the reading I've done, the 5G transmitters will need to do active beam forming. This is part fo the reason they need so many antennae - so you can overcome obstructions. The advantage is you can get by with lower power requirements at the transmitter and overcome obstructions that normally would preclude the use of the frequencies in question. The disadvantage is that you need large numbers of antennae, more processing power at the antennae and it's software based. I don't know the current state of the art, but any technology like this takes some time to develop and mature and one can imagine the challenges involved in active beam forming directed at a moving target that is also intermittently getting obstructed by other random objects around it.



    Stand someplace outside and and aim a laser pointer at a telephone pole. If your vision is okay, and you can see the dot at night, in theory, that spot you're standing on can receive mmWave broadcasts from hardware on that pole, after installation.

    ...
    Alright!  
    I have three separate telephone poles, each well within 75 feet of my house, that I can easily hit with a laser pointer.

    So, what's the problem?


    Stand someplace outside and and aim a laser pointer at a telephone pole. If your vision is okay, and you can see the dot at night, in theory, that spot you're standing on can receive mmWave broadcasts from hardware on that pole, after installation.

    ...
    Alright!  
    I have three separate telephone poles, each well within 75 feet of my house, that I can easily hit with a laser pointer.

    So, what's the problem?
    Read the next paragraph.

    FTA:" We mentioned the laser pointer test being performed outside. There's a reason for this -- unlike 4G LTE, mmWave is easily blocked by walls, glass, some metal screens on windows, tree leaves, rain, and other obstructions including the human body. This makes mmWave able to be used for fixed-point communications between buildings, or wirelessly from a telephone pole to a 5G modem on the outside of your house, but less useful for a smartphone used indoors."

    And, you don't need to hit a 4G tower with the laser pointer for signal.
    ... and with horses and buggies we didn't need paved roads...
    Did you even bother to read the article? Physics really sucks.
    muthuk_vanalingamrazorpit
  • Reply 25 of 54
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,911member
    Something I still don’t have a good understanding of is how 4G and 5G will (or will not) work together. My understanding is that the lower speed portion of 5G doesn’t need the closely spaced antennae, but what will it require in terms of transmission infrastructure and will it be mutually exclusive with 4G? With past system upgrades, there has been a long crossover period. (I still periodically run into areas where I only get 3G or even Edge signal.) Will older, 4G devices still be compatible with 5G infrastructure and how will it affect their function, either positively or negatively?
  • Reply 26 of 54
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,858administrator


    Stand someplace outside and and aim a laser pointer at a telephone pole. If your vision is okay, and you can see the dot at night, in theory, that spot you're standing on can receive mmWave broadcasts from hardware on that pole, after installation.

    ...
    Alright!  
    I have three separate telephone poles, each well within 75 feet of my house, that I can easily hit with a laser pointer.

    So, what's the problem?
    Read the next paragraph.

    FTA:" We mentioned the laser pointer test being performed outside. There's a reason for this -- unlike 4G LTE, mmWave is easily blocked by walls, glass, some metal screens on windows, tree leaves, rain, and other obstructions including the human body. This makes mmWave able to be used for fixed-point communications between buildings, or wirelessly from a telephone pole to a 5G modem on the outside of your house, but less useful for a smartphone used indoors."

    And, you don't need to hit a 4G tower with the laser pointer for signal.
    ... and with horses and buggies we didn't need paved roads...
    This "horses and buggies" is a thoughtless take. Nobody's saying to not work on 5G, and had you actually read the article, you'd know that we aren't either. Just be realistic about what you're going to get, and when, and why, because physics are a bitch.

    While the 5G spec may change, the physics behind mmWave in regards to material penetration won't, and can't.
    edited May 2019 MplsPCloudTalkinrazorpit
  • Reply 27 of 54
    bigmikebigmike Posts: 266member
    Anyone who is interested in how this affects health:

    Thousands of studies link low-level wireless radio frequency radiation exposures to a long list of adverse biological effects, including:



    DNA single and double strand breaks

    oxidative damage

    disruption of cell metabolism

    increased blood brain barrier permeability

    melatonin reduction

    disruption to brain glucose metabolism

    generation of stress proteins



    in 2011 the World Health Organization (WHO) classified radio frequency radiation as a possible 2B carcinogen.



    More recently the $25 million National Toxicology Program concluded that radio frequency radiation of the type currently used by cell phones can cause cancer.



    #1 – A DENSER SOUP OF ELECTROSMOG

    We’re going to be bombarded by really high frequencies at low, short-range intensities creating a yet more complicated denser soup of electrosmog



    #2 – EFFECTS ON THE SKIN

    The effects of millimeter waves as studied by Dr. Yael Stein of Hebrew University is said to also cause humans physical pain as our nociceptors flare up in recognition of the wave as a damaging stimuli. So we’re looking at possibilities of many skin diseases and cancer as well as physical pain to our skin.



    #3 – EFFECTS ON THE EYES

    A 1994 study found that low level millimeter microwave radiation produced lens opacity in rats, which is linked to the production of cataracts.

    A 2003 Chinese study has also found damage to the lens epithelial cells of rabbits after 8 hours of exposure to microwave radiation and a 2009 study conducted by the College of Physicians and Surgeons in Pakistan conclude that EMFs emitted by a mobile phone cause derangement of chicken embryo retinal differentiation.



    #4 – EFFECTS ON THE HEART

    A 1992 Russian study found that frequencies in the range 53-78GHz (that which 5G proposes to use) impacted the heart rate variability (an indicator of stress) in rats. Another Russian study on frogs who’s skin was exposed to MMWs found heart rate changes (arrhythmias).



    #5 – IMMUNE SYSTEM EFFECTS

    A 2002 Russian study examined the effects of 42HGz microwave radiation exposure on the blood of healthy mice. It was concluded that “the whole-body exposure of healthy mice to low-intensity EHF EMR has a profound effect on the indices of nonspecific immunity”.



    #6 – EFFECTS ON CELL GROWTH RATES

    A 2016 Armenian study observed MMWs at low intensity, mirroring the future environment brought about by 5G. Their study conducted on E-coli and other bacteria stated that the waves had depressed their growth as well as “changing properties and activity” of the cells. The concern is that it would do the same to human cells.



    #7 – EFFECTS ON BACTERIA RESISTANCE

    The very same Armenian study also suggested that MMWs effects are mainly on water, cell plasma membrane and genome too. They had found that MMW’s interaction with bacteria altered their sensitivity to “different biologically active chemicals, including antibiotics.” More specifically, the combination of MMW and antibiotics showed that it may be leading to antibiotic resistance in bacteria.

    This groundbreaking finding could have a magnum effect on the health of human beings as the bandwidth is rolled out nationwide. The concern is that we develop a lower resistance to bacteria as our cells become more vulnerable – and we become more vulnerable.



    #8 – EFFECTS ON PLANT HEALTH

    One of the features of 5G is that the MMW is particularly susceptible to being absorbed by plants and rain. Humans and animals alike consume plants as a food source. The effects MMW has on plants could leave us with food that’s not safe to consume.



    #9 – EFFECTS ON THE ATMOSPHERE AND DEPLETION OF FOSSIL FUELS

    Implementation of the 5G global wireless network requires the launching of rockets to deploy satellites for 5G. These satellites have a short lifespan which would require a lot more deployment than what we’re currently seeing. A new type of hydrocarbon rocket engine expected to power a fleet of suborbital rockets would emit black carbon which “could cause potentially significant changes in the global atmospheric circulation and distributions of ozone and temperature” according to a 2010 Californian study. Solid state rocket exhaust contains chlorine which also destroys the ozone.



    The effects on the ozone are thought to be worse than current day CFC exposure.



    Google’s Project Loon is said to bring Internet to rural and hard-to-access areas by using helium balloons. But these balloons only have a 10-month lifespan. We’re looking at a lot of helium being used here, more than what we can possibly have on Earth?



    #10 – DISRUPTION OF THE NATURAL ECOSYSTEM

    Since the year 2000, there have been reports of birds abandoning their nests as well as health issues like “plumage deterioration, locomotion problems, reduced survivorship and death,” says researcher Alfonso Balmori. Bird species that are affected by these low levels, non-ionizing microwave radiation are the House Sparrows, Rock Doves, White Storks, Collared Doves and Magpies, among others.



    But it’s not just the birds. The declining bee population is also said to be linked to this non-ionizing EMF radiation. It reduces the egg-laying abilities of the queen leading to a decline in colony strength.



    A study conducted by Chennai’s Loyola College in 2012 concluded that out of 919 research studies carried out on birds, plants, bees and other animals and humans, 593 of them showed impacts from RF-EMF radiations. 5G will be adding to the effects of this electrosmog.



    #11 – MOST 5G STUDIES MISLEADING

    5G will use pulsed millimeter waves to carry information. But as Dr. Joel Moskowitz points out, most 5G studies are misleading because they do not pulse the waves. This is important because research on microwaves already tells us how pulsed waves have more profound biological effects on our body compared to non-pulsed waves. Previous studies, for instance, show how pulse rates of the frequencies led to gene toxicity and DNA strand breaks.



    WHAT EXPERTS ARE SAYING

    “Along with the 5G there is another thing coming – Internet of Things. If you look at it combined the radiation level is going to increase tremendously and yet the industry is very excited about it…. they project 5G/IoT business to be a $7 trillion business.”

    -Prof. Girish Kumar, Professor at Electrical Engineering Department at IIT Bombay



    “The new 5G wireless technology involves millimeter waves (extremely high frequencies) producing photons of much greater energy than even 4G and WiFi. Allowing this technology to be used without proving its safety is reckless in the extreme, as the millimeter waves are known to have a profound effect on all parts of the human body.”

    -Prof. Trevor Marshall, Director Autoimmunity Research Foundation, California



    “The plans to beam highly penetrative 5G milliwave radiation at us from space must surely be one of the greatest follies ever conceived of by mankind. There will be nowhere safe to live.”

    -Olga Sheean former WHO employee and author of ‘No Safe Place’



    “It would irradiate everyone, including the most vulnerable to harm from radiofrequency radiation: pregnant women, unborn children, young children, teenagers, men of reproductive age, the elderly, the disabled, and the chronically ill.”

    —Ronald Powell, PhD, Letter to FCC on 5G expansion



    How To Protect Yourself From 5G

    1. Understand your exposures. Understand the different types of EMFs and how they behave – hence the need to read (and share) articles like this one.

    2. Measure – use an EMF meter to obtain readings and identify hotspots.

    3. Mitigate your exposure. Which means either eliminate the source, move further away from the source of radiation or shield your body.



    There is a concern that current EMF meters are not able to measure the frequencies of MMWs. On this point, researcher Alasdair Philips from Powerwatch states “current RF meters cover the frequency ranges proposed for most 5G use in the next three years”.
    retrogustocat52
  • Reply 28 of 54
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    MplsP said:
    Did you even bother to read the article? Physics really sucks.
    LOL...  If you read what I wrote, I quoted the article in my response to it.
  • Reply 29 of 54
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member


    Stand someplace outside and and aim a laser pointer at a telephone pole. If your vision is okay, and you can see the dot at night, in theory, that spot you're standing on can receive mmWave broadcasts from hardware on that pole, after installation.

    ...
    Alright!  
    I have three separate telephone poles, each well within 75 feet of my house, that I can easily hit with a laser pointer.

    So, what's the problem?
    Read the next paragraph.

    FTA:" We mentioned the laser pointer test being performed outside. There's a reason for this -- unlike 4G LTE, mmWave is easily blocked by walls, glass, some metal screens on windows, tree leaves, rain, and other obstructions including the human body. This makes mmWave able to be used for fixed-point communications between buildings, or wirelessly from a telephone pole to a 5G modem on the outside of your house, but less useful for a smartphone used indoors."

    And, you don't need to hit a 4G tower with the laser pointer for signal.
    ... and with horses and buggies we didn't need paved roads...
    This "horses and buggies" is a thoughtless take. Nobody's saying to not work on 5G, and had you actually read the article, you'd know that we aren't either. Just be realistic about what you're going to get, and when, and why, because physics are a bitch.

    While the 5G spec may change, the physics behind mmWave in regards to material penetration won't, and can't.
    I would caution you to "be realistic" as well.
    In truth, 5G is rolling out right now in spots and patches and without a lot of uniformity.   So, my response was to the article's implication that mmwave technology was generally impractical (at least for the near future) because (TOO AGAIN QUOTE THE ARTICLE),
    "Stand someplace outside and and aim a laser pointer at a telephone pole. If your vision is okay, and you can see the dot at night, in theory, that spot you're standing on can receive mmWave broadcasts from hardware on that pole, after installation."

    And, once again, my response to that over broad generalization was:
    "I have three separate telephone poles, each well within 75 feet of my house, that I can easily hit with a laser pointer. So, what's the problem?"

    Yes, it was a bit snarky.  But, despite the truth of my statement, I meant that part humorously.   Sorry if you didn't get the joke.
    But, regardless, suggesting that (meaningful) 5G cannot be rolled out in the near future because its mmwave form cannot be rolled out because of a lack of telephone poles depends mostly on where you look.   Carriers throughout the world already know that limitation and intend to deal with it appropriately.

    I am not sure why AI has chosen to disparage 5G, but when I see holes in its arguments, I will point them out.  And, as I point out here:  the argument that the mmwave feature of 5G is impractical because it is limited to line of sight is not universally relevant.  For me, at the minimum, it means dumping cable -- that is a definite plus.


  • Reply 30 of 54
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,858administrator


    Stand someplace outside and and aim a laser pointer at a telephone pole. If your vision is okay, and you can see the dot at night, in theory, that spot you're standing on can receive mmWave broadcasts from hardware on that pole, after installation.

    ...
    Alright!  
    I have three separate telephone poles, each well within 75 feet of my house, that I can easily hit with a laser pointer.

    So, what's the problem?
    Read the next paragraph.

    FTA:" We mentioned the laser pointer test being performed outside. There's a reason for this -- unlike 4G LTE, mmWave is easily blocked by walls, glass, some metal screens on windows, tree leaves, rain, and other obstructions including the human body. This makes mmWave able to be used for fixed-point communications between buildings, or wirelessly from a telephone pole to a 5G modem on the outside of your house, but less useful for a smartphone used indoors."

    And, you don't need to hit a 4G tower with the laser pointer for signal.
    ... and with horses and buggies we didn't need paved roads...
    This "horses and buggies" is a thoughtless take. Nobody's saying to not work on 5G, and had you actually read the article, you'd know that we aren't either. Just be realistic about what you're going to get, and when, and why, because physics are a bitch.

    While the 5G spec may change, the physics behind mmWave in regards to material penetration won't, and can't.
    I would caution you to "be realistic" as well.
    In truth, 5G is rolling out right now in spots and patches and without a lot of uniformity.   So, my response was to the article's implication that mmwave technology was generally impractical (at least for the near future) because (TOO AGAIN QUOTE THE ARTICLE),
    "Stand someplace outside and and aim a laser pointer at a telephone pole. If your vision is okay, and you can see the dot at night, in theory, that spot you're standing on can receive mmWave broadcasts from hardware on that pole, after installation."

    And, once again, my response to that over broad generalization was:
    "I have three separate telephone poles, each well within 75 feet of my house, that I can easily hit with a laser pointer. So, what's the problem?"

    Yes, it was a bit snarky.  But, despite the truth of my statement, I meant that part humorously.   Sorry if you didn't get the joke.
    But, regardless, suggesting that (meaningful) 5G cannot be rolled out in the near future because its mmwave form cannot be rolled out because of a lack of telephone poles depends mostly on where you look.   Carriers throughout the world already know that limitation and intend to deal with it appropriately.

    I am not sure why AI has chosen to disparage 5G, but when I see holes in its arguments, I will point them out.  And, as I point out here:  the argument that the mmwave feature of 5G is impractical because it is limited to line of sight is not universally relevant.  For me, at the minimum, it means dumping cable -- that is a definite plus.


    I'm not sure where you got that we were disparaging 5G because of the line of sight requirement. That's a practical demonstration of what 5G mmWave rollouts will require for hardware installations, that 4G did not. Even rural residential areas have telephone poles everywhere. If we had wanted to say that a lack of telephone poles was a problem for 5G rollout, we'd have specifically said that. We did not, because that's dumb.

    There's no hidden implication in this article that 5G is bad. 5G is coming, and yes, there are very small patches of it here and there. However, it is going to take years for this patches to grow, and several orders of magnitude more work than other transitions have taken. Tell you what -- you and I have gone around a few times on this. I'm in a dense suburb of DC, and I don't know where you live. Let's check in again, when either you or I can get 5G, or have daily access to a mmWave network.
    edited May 2019 muthuk_vanalingamdewme
  • Reply 31 of 54
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member


    Stand someplace outside and and aim a laser pointer at a telephone pole. If your vision is okay, and you can see the dot at night, in theory, that spot you're standing on can receive mmWave broadcasts from hardware on that pole, after installation.

    ...
    Alright!  
    I have three separate telephone poles, each well within 75 feet of my house, that I can easily hit with a laser pointer.

    So, what's the problem?
    Read the next paragraph.

    FTA:" We mentioned the laser pointer test being performed outside. There's a reason for this -- unlike 4G LTE, mmWave is easily blocked by walls, glass, some metal screens on windows, tree leaves, rain, and other obstructions including the human body. This makes mmWave able to be used for fixed-point communications between buildings, or wirelessly from a telephone pole to a 5G modem on the outside of your house, but less useful for a smartphone used indoors."

    And, you don't need to hit a 4G tower with the laser pointer for signal.
    ... and with horses and buggies we didn't need paved roads...
    This "horses and buggies" is a thoughtless take. Nobody's saying to not work on 5G, and had you actually read the article, you'd know that we aren't either. Just be realistic about what you're going to get, and when, and why, because physics are a bitch.

    While the 5G spec may change, the physics behind mmWave in regards to material penetration won't, and can't.
    I would caution you to "be realistic" as well.
    In truth, 5G is rolling out right now in spots and patches and without a lot of uniformity.   So, my response was to the article's implication that mmwave technology was generally impractical (at least for the near future) because (TOO AGAIN QUOTE THE ARTICLE),
    "Stand someplace outside and and aim a laser pointer at a telephone pole. If your vision is okay, and you can see the dot at night, in theory, that spot you're standing on can receive mmWave broadcasts from hardware on that pole, after installation."

    And, once again, my response to that over broad generalization was:
    "I have three separate telephone poles, each well within 75 feet of my house, that I can easily hit with a laser pointer. So, what's the problem?"

    Yes, it was a bit snarky.  But, despite the truth of my statement, I meant that part humorously.   Sorry if you didn't get the joke.
    But, regardless, suggesting that (meaningful) 5G cannot be rolled out in the near future because its mmwave form cannot be rolled out because of a lack of telephone poles depends mostly on where you look.   Carriers throughout the world already know that limitation and intend to deal with it appropriately.

    I am not sure why AI has chosen to disparage 5G, but when I see holes in its arguments, I will point them out.  And, as I point out here:  the argument that the mmwave feature of 5G is impractical because it is limited to line of sight is not universally relevant.  For me, at the minimum, it means dumping cable -- that is a definite plus.


    I'm not sure where you got that we were disparaging 5G because of the line of sight requirement. That's a practical demonstration of what 5G mmWave rollouts will require for hardware installations, that 4G did not. Even rural residential areas have telephone poles everywhere. If we had wanted to say that a lack of telephone poles was a problem for 5G rollout, we'd have specifically said that. We did not, because that's dumb.

    There's no hidden implication in this article that 5G is bad. 5G is coming, and yes, there are very small patches of it here and there. However, it is going to take years for this patches to grow, and several orders of magnitude more work than other transitions have taken. Tell you what -- you and I have gone around a few times on this. I'm in a dense suburb of DC, and I don't know where you live. Let's check in again, when either you or I can get 5G, or have daily access to a mmWave network.
    Agreed.
    But let's take the pole thing a couple steps further.   I could argue it both ways:  
    That poles will greatly simplify the roll-out of 5G mmwave technology.  For example:   One of the poles by my house could be set-up to service between 5 to 10 houses (depending on distance limitations).   So, that could conceivably make mmwave more cost efficient that the physical cables that are strung to each of those houses.   Plus, you don't need a tower -- because its already there.

    But, the flip side of that is:   What of the newer (mostly upscale) plans that ran underground cables instead of poles?  What are they going to do and how will they be serviced?   I think it is unlikely that they would consent to having poles set-up throughout their communities.

    And another hurdle:   with 4 different carriers (possibly going to 3 with the T-Moble / Sprint deal), does that mean they have to mount 4 separate transmitters on every pole?   Aside from the question of the physical feasibility of that, what of the economic feasibility & waste?   How do they plan to deal with that?

    I think that this complicated and I can only hope that they do it "right" -- not for themselves, but for the country -- because these systems are now as essential as any utility.  And, as the years and decades of progress roll on, I see it becoming ever more essential to the strength and well being of the country... 

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they don't screw it up.
     
  • Reply 32 of 54
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,911member
    This story popped up at the top of the feed and then I noticed the date. It's really interesting reading through all the comments and the promises. After 18 months, virtually nothing has changed. Hmm....
    muthuk_vanalingamtmayjdb8167razorpit
  • Reply 33 of 54
    lkrupp said:
    So the tech world is agog but what about the end user? What’s in it for me other than faster (big maybe) speed which I do not need on my mobile devices? What services will 5G provide me that I don’t already have access to? I can actually see the advantage for home broadband networks because I don't have much hope of any fiber optic provider coming down my street anytime soon. I have two choices and those are cable or DSL. However I also see the providers like AT&T and Verizon having a financial motive for pushing this technology and that’s because it’s wireless. They can let a bunch of employees go since they won’t have a copper or fiber infrastructure to maintain.
    yeah, I mean, you just answered your own question. Rural customers will finally have access to near-gigabit Internet. Urban consumers will have a new wireless alternative to whatever their local cable monopoly is. 5G arguably means less to mobile than it does to desktop. 

    I live in New York City, where one would think fast Internet would be commonplace just due to sheer numbers, demand, and wealth. It's not, because the price of infrastructure — getting new lines up in the air or under the street — is massively expensive. If the ISPs could just throw a satellite in the sky and skip the wires, that would be a big deal for them, everyone really.

    That said, I am a skeptical that it will matter for many years, and will almost certainly turn off 5G on my iPhone 12 for battery purposes. 
  • Reply 34 of 54
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,564member
    Will iOS have a way to disable the 5G antenna if we don't want to use it because we don't trust it?
  • Reply 35 of 54
    5G: a solution in search of a problem.

    5G is a way for carriers to sell plans and Qualcomm to sell chipsets.

    With line-of-sight operation, mm wave is a technology which may never come to fruition, and long wave while a bit better than 4G may prove that it would've been economically more viable to deploy LTE advanced.

    Questions for carriers:
    • If you can't maintain a mm wave signal - because you're moving and trees, leaves, the user's body, lamp posts, street signs, windows, and weather are impeding the signal - how long does it take the modem to retrain and protocol switch to long wave or LTE? With mm wave cutting in and out - even in areas with coverage - will we be better off just turning off mm wave and just using long wave or LTE?
    • How much have you boosted backhaul bandwidth out to the towers to cover the promised additional speed?
    Stay tuned for 6G: the search for more money.
    MplsP
  • Reply 36 of 54
    Will iOS have a way to disable the 5G antenna if we don't want to use it because we don't trust it?

    Why would you NOT trust a feature which is enabled by Apple? What is the issue that are you foreseeing - is it health related? Or reliable connectivity?
  • Reply 37 of 54
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,309member
    5G: a solution in search of a problem.

    5G is a way for carriers to sell plans and Qualcomm to sell chipsets.

    With line-of-sight operation, mm wave is a technology which may never come to fruition, and long wave while a bit better than 4G may prove that it would've been economically more viable to deploy LTE advanced.

    Questions for carriers:
    • If you can't maintain a mm wave signal - because you're moving and trees, leaves, the user's body, lamp posts, street signs, windows, and weather are impeding the signal - how long does it take the modem to retrain and protocol switch to long wave or LTE? With mm wave cutting in and out - even in areas with coverage - will we be better off just turning off mm wave and just using long wave or LTE?
    • How much have you boosted backhaul bandwidth out to the towers to cover the promised additional speed?
    Stay tuned for 6G: the search for more money.
    Overall, 5G has evolved some efficiencies, but otherwise, it is the 2.5 to 3.5 Ghz midband that will be of any real benefit, and that will come slowly to the U.S.

    I won't speak for the rest of the world, but most of the current 5G is just the same 4LTE bands, and is probably repurposed 4G radio's.


    Still, I'm buying the iPhone 12 Pro Max for everything but the 5G, so if 5G happens in the next few years that is midband, I'll be ready.
    edited October 2020
  • Reply 38 of 54
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,328member
    I generally try to upgrade my iPhone every 3-4 years, so each new upgrade represents a significant across-the-board improvement in several functional aspects of the phone, from cameras to performance to storage capacity. If I was at a refresh point this year, which I am not, I would upgrade based on the total package the iPhone 12 series has to offer. Having 5G capability would be low on the list for this year, definitely not a go/no-go purchase decision point. Who knows, maybe Apple will do something with the dual-SIM capability of some iPhones to provide channel bonding so even 4G/LTE devices would be faster now and even faster with 5G availability. 
  • Reply 39 of 54
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    hodar said:
    Unfortunately the 23.6 to 24 GHz bandwidth are winning over public safety.  Frequencies in the 23.6 to 24 GHz spectrum are reflective to water vapor, and are used by Weather RADAR systems to track, monitor and forecast severe weather, around the world.  Because of the "need" for faster bandwidth, the 5G bands will degrade our ability to track storms (thunderstorms, Tropical Storms, Hurricanes, Blizzards, etc) as well as predict their severity, direction and likely 2-3 day tracks.

    You know, I can, and am willing to wait a few seconds; so that I can be better informed of severe weather, where it's going, and when it's going to hit.

    Apparently, the FCC feels that money is more important than human lives.

    And if the FCC a wasn’t pushing for 5G then the story would be “Orange man doesn’t want anyone having fast internet, der der der.” 
    cat52
  • Reply 40 of 54
    jdb8167jdb8167 Posts: 626member
    Eric_WVGG said:
    If the ISPs could just throw a satellite in the sky and skip the wires, that would be a big deal for them, everyone really.

    That said, I am a skeptical that it will matter for many years, and will almost certainly turn off 5G on my iPhone 12 for battery purposes. 
    Starlink from SpaceX is coming and it is much more likely to help with rural broadband than 5G. 
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