Apple updates 13- and 15-inch MacBook Pros with new Intel chips, enhanced butterfly keyboa...

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 120
    indiekidukindiekiduk Posts: 381member
    apple ][ said:
    Is hyperthreading still a thing?

    Does the 8 core model have 16 virtual cores?
    Sadly nowadays hyper-threading needs to be disabled because of Intel's vulnerabilities:

    https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT210107 

    Additional mitigations for speculative execution vulnerabilities in Intel CPUs

    "Full mitigation requires using the Terminal app to enable an additional CPU instruction and disable hyper-threading processing technology. "

    Newer i3s don't have hyper-threading so could be a safer bet, or if you go to Linux then AMD don't have it either.
  • Reply 42 of 120
    bulk001bulk001 Posts: 764member
    dougd said:
    I'd never buy one with that stupid Touch Bar.
    What’s wrong with the Touch Bar? It is not as functional as I was hoping but doesn’t slow me down either. Before buying my next MBP I am going to price out a similarly spec’ed Alienware laptop. We do a lot of video production using Creative Cloud and thinking about moving our mobile production teams over to AW for greater power and internal upgrade options.
    bennettvista
  • Reply 43 of 120
    dws-2dws-2 Posts: 276member
    They keyboard fix is probably in software. 
    I would not be at all surprised if that was part of the fix, at least for keys that register multiple presses.
    indiekiduk
  • Reply 44 of 120
    ireland said:
    Third or fourth revision for a keyboard design Apple imply has basically no issues? They are being too proud here. Scrap the shitty design and go back to keyboards with some travel and with higher reliability.
    I agree with you. They freaking need to get off their high horse and admit this keyboard is a complete failure. It's dragging their reputation and name down. The design is crap.
    Rembertbennettvistakestral
  • Reply 45 of 120
    mpw_amherstmpw_amherst Posts: 563member
    where’s my new 12” MacBook?
    kestral
  • Reply 46 of 120
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member
    ireland said:
    Third or fourth revision for a keyboard design Apple imply has basically no issues? They are being too proud here. Scrap the shitty design and go back to keyboards with some travel and with higher reliability.
    I agree with you. They freaking need to get off their high horse and admit this keyboard is a complete failure. It's dragging their reputation and name down. The design is crap.
    I just moments ago finished sending feedback to Apple letting them know that at least one buyer of a $5000 laptop is refusing to buy another one until I can be sure the keyboard is reliable.

    The most expensive computer I ever bought has been the most frustrating machine I've ever owned because of the keyboard. Now Apple says "Don't worry, the new keyboard, despite being the same fundamental design, is better." Really? Define "better." Better enough for me to risk another six grand out of an audio engineer's salary? Not a chance. Once burned...

    By stubbornly refusing to let this turkey die, Apple is discouraging me from buying another high-ticket item. That doesn't seem like a good strategy.
    indiekidukkestralmike54
  • Reply 47 of 120
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    apple ][ said:
    Is hyperthreading still a thing?

    Does the 8 core model have 16 virtual cores?
    Sadly nowadays hyper-threading needs to be disabled because of Intel's vulnerabilities:

    https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT210107 

    Additional mitigations for speculative execution vulnerabilities in Intel CPUs

    "Full mitigation requires using the Terminal app to enable an additional CPU instruction and disable hyper-threading processing technology. "

    Newer i3s don't have hyper-threading so could be a safer bet, or if you go to Linux then AMD don't have it either.
    For maximum mitigation, which just about every AppleInsider reader does not need, this avenue you mention is available but in no way required.

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/05/15/why-that-40-performance-hit-for-full-zombieload-mitigations-probably-wont-affect-you
    edited May 2019
  • Reply 48 of 120
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,096member
    dougd said:
    I'd never buy one with that stupid Touch Bar.
    Well... that's good to know.

    I love the Touch Bar on mine.  There... canceled yours out.
    tyler82macxpressthtfastasleepanomejeffharrischiaroundaboutnow
  • Reply 49 of 120
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,523member

    I note that they are still selling the 2017 Non Touch Bar version at full price. As someone who has this model, and has already had their keyboard replaced twice, I feel that this is an absolute disgrace. They know full well that the design is flawed and yet they keep selling it!

    The non Touch Bar models either need to be replaced with updated internals and the improved keyboard or removed from sale.

    edited May 2019 mike54
  • Reply 50 of 120
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,096member
    frantisek said:
    Does it means Apple can use now low power DDR4 memory?
    In theory, but it doesn't.
    I wonder why Apple would not choose to use low power RAM now that the CPUs support it? Does anyone know if that would require a significant redesign or retooling? Are LP and regular RAM modules interchangeable? It just seems weird that a company so focussed on battery life would not take advantage of an opportunity to extend it. Apple took the time to update other parts of the machine -- keyboard and T2 -- I can't get my head around why they'd leave that old compromise in place.

    Maybe we'll see a new model in the fall that addresses this. I hope so.

    I love the extra cores though! Yum.
    It's my understanding that these new chips from Intel do not support LDDR4.  As usual, Intel is the problem and not Apple.
  • Reply 51 of 120
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,096member
    ireland said:
    Third or fourth revision for a keyboard design Apple imply has basically no issues? They are being too proud here. Scrap the shitty design and go back to keyboards with some travel and with higher reliability.
    I agree with you. They freaking need to get off their high horse and admit this keyboard is a complete failure. It's dragging their reputation and name down. The design is crap.
    I just moments ago finished sending feedback to Apple letting them know that at least one buyer of a $5000 laptop is refusing to buy another one until I can be sure the keyboard is reliable.

    The most expensive computer I ever bought has been the most frustrating machine I've ever owned because of the keyboard. Now Apple says "Don't worry, the new keyboard, despite being the same fundamental design, is better." Really? Define "better." Better enough for me to risk another six grand out of an audio engineer's salary? Not a chance. Once burned...

    By stubbornly refusing to let this turkey die, Apple is discouraging me from buying another high-ticket item. That doesn't seem like a good strategy.
    Everyone's personal experiences differ.  I myself have had zero problems on my 2017 MBP with that keyboard.  The only thing that I'm not a fan of is the keyboard being louder.  Other than that, zero keyboard problems.

    The folks that a complaining - assuming they actually own one - has me wondering what environment they're in that causes the keys to getting stuck.  I've seen people use their laptops literally as dinner plates, with crud of every kind getting on their keyboard and just asking for keyboard failure.

    It's obvious this recent design is not friendly in certain uses.  It is Apple's responsibility to make these keyboards as reliable as can be.  Then again, how reliable can they be if it turns out that the problem is with people not taking care of what is a precision electronic device?
    macplusplus
  • Reply 52 of 120
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,931member
    sflocal said:
    ireland said:
    Third or fourth revision for a keyboard design Apple imply has basically no issues? They are being too proud here. Scrap the shitty design and go back to keyboards with some travel and with higher reliability.
    I agree with you. They freaking need to get off their high horse and admit this keyboard is a complete failure. It's dragging their reputation and name down. The design is crap.
    I just moments ago finished sending feedback to Apple letting them know that at least one buyer of a $5000 laptop is refusing to buy another one until I can be sure the keyboard is reliable.

    The most expensive computer I ever bought has been the most frustrating machine I've ever owned because of the keyboard. Now Apple says "Don't worry, the new keyboard, despite being the same fundamental design, is better." Really? Define "better." Better enough for me to risk another six grand out of an audio engineer's salary? Not a chance. Once burned...

    By stubbornly refusing to let this turkey die, Apple is discouraging me from buying another high-ticket item. That doesn't seem like a good strategy.
    Everyone's personal experiences differ.  I myself have had zero problems on my 2017 MBP with that keyboard.  The only thing that I'm not a fan of is the keyboard being louder.  Other than that, zero keyboard problems.

    The folks that a complaining - assuming they actually own one - has me wondering what environment they're in that causes the keys to getting stuck.  I've seen people use their laptops literally as dinner plates, with crud of every kind getting on their keyboard and just asking for keyboard failure.

    It's obvious this recent design is not friendly in certain uses.  It is Apple's responsibility to make these keyboards as reliable as can be.  Then again, how reliable can they be if it turns out that the problem is with people not taking care of what is a precision electronic device?
    I have a 2017 MBP and I haven't had the keyboard crap out yet, but I have had issues with it. And no, I'm not using it with a dinner plate. I can categorically say that I've never been this careful with a keyboard. If I'm ever eating anywhere near the computer I keep the food separate and make sure to wipe any crumbs off my fingers before using it and much of the time I have a silicone protector on the keyboard. Unfortunately that makes the keyboard feel even crappier and leaves spots on the screen.

    In spite of all this I've had several keys start to stick. I've managed to rescue them by taking a piece of paper and sliding it under the edge of the key, but when I compare this to my 2011 MBA and the Logitech keyboard I got for my iPad it's a world of difference. Those keyboards never had any issues. I snack while using them all the time. So in spite of changing my usage and being pathologically anal with the keyboard, it's still less reliable than the older keyboards. I'd call that a fail.

    Their statement that the keyboards are fine is B.S. and is belied by their actions. If there wasn't an issue, why did they extend the warranty on the keyboards and why have they modified it? Like Loren I am more than a little miffed that I spent over $2k on a premium laptop that I thought was a Mercedes only to find out it's got a Chrysler keyboard.

    On a related note, I need to get a new computer for my daughter for college. She would like a Mac - do I get her a MBP and risk the keyboard breaking so she can't work or has to go without or do I get her a PC? I'd like to get her a Mac, but beyond that I'd rather get her a computer that will be reliable.

    Edit:
    From the article the statement "its butterfly design is used without problem by the vast majority of its users and that its notebooks achieve overall quality levels that are the best it has ever delivered." is perferct marketing speak - if you read it carefully, it can be technically be true despite having unacceptably high levels of failure with the keyboard. 
    edited May 2019 mike54
  • Reply 53 of 120
    robgnycrobgnyc Posts: 7member
    Call me when they give up on the touchbar, add the function keys back and shrink the oversized touchpad. Till then I'll be on my 2017 version of the 2015 Macbook Pro with a great keyboard an a ton of useful ports.
  • Reply 54 of 120
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 1,102member
    I love my 2017 15” Pro. Maxed out to the hilt (except for 1TB SSD instead of 2TB) 

    the best computer ive ever owned. Though I did have problems with the space bar sticking. It was under warranty and Apple installed a brand new battery as well, free of charge. 

    The new 8-core sounds freaking amazing. 
    edited May 2019
  • Reply 55 of 120
    boboliciousbobolicious Posts: 1,146member
    Sadly I still read many reasons to hold back, and we still cannot upgrade memory or storage, and a touchbar keyboard does not exist for desktops save an iOS app, which I ask if may be the better solution all round, given what I gather is a very high out of warranty replacement cost for a macbook pro keyboard, which I understand as a combined keyboard and touch display...

    I remain simply asking for options - I would trade frills for basics (like speed) in my world, however others might be better served with frills...

    And hopes here ran high for a larger than 15" display, with the Razer 17" still looking like the option I wish Apple might counter, interestingly dropping out of the 'ultrafine' high dpi 4K res  www.digitaltrends.com/laptop-reviews/razer-blade-pro-17-review/
    edited May 2019
  • Reply 56 of 120
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,808member
    robgnyc said:
    Call me when they give up on the touchbar, add the function keys back and shrink the oversized touchpad. Till then I'll be on my 2017 version of the 2015 Macbook Pro with a great keyboard an a ton of useful ports.
    You're never going to get called...
    pscooter63fastasleeptyler82jeffharrischiaroundaboutnowfahlman
  • Reply 57 of 120
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    dougd said:
    I'd never buy one with that stupid Touch Bar.
    I’ll alert the media.
    jeffharrischiaroundaboutnowfrantisek
  • Reply 58 of 120
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    robgnyc said:
    Call me when they give up on the touchbar, add the function keys back and shrink the oversized touchpad. Till then I'll be on my 2017 version of the 2015 Macbook Pro with a great keyboard an a ton of useful ports.
    I’m sure Phil Schiller is having trouble sleeping at night.
    jeffharrischiapscooter63roundaboutnow
  • Reply 59 of 120
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,420member
    ireland said:
    Third or fourth revision for a keyboard design Apple imply has basically no issues? They are being too proud here. Scrap the shitty design and go back to keyboards with some travel and with higher reliability.
    I agree with you. They freaking need to get off their high horse and admit this keyboard is a complete failure. It's dragging their reputation and name down. The design is crap.
    I just moments ago finished sending feedback to Apple letting them know that at least one buyer of a $5000 laptop is refusing to buy another one until I can be sure the keyboard is reliable.

    The most expensive computer I ever bought has been the most frustrating machine I've ever owned because of the keyboard. Now Apple says "Don't worry, the new keyboard, despite being the same fundamental design, is better." Really? Define "better." Better enough for me to risk another six grand out of an audio engineer's salary? Not a chance. Once burned...

    By stubbornly refusing to let this turkey die, Apple is discouraging me from buying another high-ticket item. That doesn't seem like a good strategy.
    Have you still not just gotten your keyboard fixed?
    roundaboutnow
  • Reply 60 of 120
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    NICE!!!
    Just as my late 2012 15" MacBook Pro Retina is struggling with OS X 10.13!
    It just crashed for some mysterious reason. I was out of my office for 20 minutes, came back to the grey screen of death. Very reassuring.

    I'd LOVE the i9 octo-core, but wonder if it has thermal issues similar to the 2018.
    I guess I'll wait for some hands-on reviews before biting the bullet.
    I wouldn’t even consider one of these machines until there are long term quality reports.   I’ve been burnt far too many times by Apple (actually computers in general) to be the first on the band wagon.    However I must admit the spec look enticing.   Will need to check pricing.  
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