Mac Pro won't get China tariff waiver, says President Trump

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 77
    CuJoYYCCuJoYYC Posts: 70member
    The tariff percentages are completely arbitrary and meant to pressure China into blinking. Hasn’t really worked so far, but the President plays hard and it worked with Canada and Mexico. We’ll see how much economic damage China is willing to accept.
    You clearly don't know how the new NAFTA played out nor how international trade agreements work. You seem to think one side must win while the other loses.
    yoyo2222GeorgeBMacbrertech
  • Reply 42 of 77
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,048member
    georgie01 said:
    tomahawk said:
    Easy solution.  Do the same thing retailers love to do with sales.  Put a red slash through it but then put the phrase "Tariff Price: " and make it 25% higher.  Make it crystal clear who is actually paying for the tariffs (US consumers).
    Our culture lives on a dreamboat thinking we can enact great change with minimal inconvenience to our own lives. We’re in a lot of the messes we’re in now because we want to be comfortable, because we don’t want to lose anything ‘important’ to us.

    If we need to pay a ‘25%’ tax on products to help put China in its place then we should be willing.
    The tariff percentages are completely arbitrary and meant to pressure China into blinking. Hasn’t really worked so far, but the President plays hard and it worked with Canada and Mexico. We’ll see how much economic damage China is willing to accept.
    Minor point but don’t forget that the US will also experience economic damage as well.
    dewmeyoyo2222GeorgeBMacbrertechurahara
  • Reply 43 of 77
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,008member

    tzeshan said:
    I want to know where are those Windows PCs and servers made? Are they made in USA? 
    Some are assembled in the US. Nearly every part for every manufacturer comes from China.
    and in Mexico (HP).  And I am concerned that this random shoot from the hip approach to tariffs will achieve nothing but diminish profits, growth and increase consumer costs.  And in the end the jobs will move to Vietnam and Malaysia, Indonesia, etc.

    But this computer is not going to be made in the Wisconsin Foxconn factory.  No matter what.
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 77
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,048member
    wigby said:
    It’s unacceptable that Apple should be caught so unprepared when this President made his intentions very clear about trade with China before and after the election. Apple should’ve been making plans for alternative suppliers and had those plans in place by now. It’s just plain tunnel vision.
    As if Trump is that predictable. I'm sure you saw every single thing coming from a mile away. Meanwhile, no one in the tech industry has made a single move to avoid this because no one knows what Trump is talking about including Trump.
    Then you haven’t been paying attention because on trade Trump has been consistent for decades.  While I don’t personally subscribe to his views on trade, I would never claim that what he’s doing here with China is unexpected.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 77
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,300member
    gatorguy said:
    kestral said:
    Apple should STFU and pay their damn tariffs.
    WE pay those tariffs, not Apple.   Apple is just the middleman.
    It won't make the Apple end-product you purchase 25% more expensive. See the link in my preceding post. 
    Nice strawman you knocked down there! 
    You didn't even bother with the link did you? ;)

    Are you saying you already know it all and have nothing left to learn so why bother reading, or just don't like anyone being helpful 'cause it might interfere with some personal political point you're trying to score? Silly stuff....
    edited July 2019 JWSC
  • Reply 46 of 77
    gutengelgutengel Posts: 363member
    ElCapitan said:
    There is another alternative: Redesign the damned thing with parts that both can be sourced in the US, and at the same time make the machine more flexible in terms of entry configs (that many have requested), and to use standard memory, disk and graphics cards more readily available. That would also broaden the market for it.
    I'm pretty sure Tim just read your message and he's readily working to incorporate your comments on the next iteration of this machine. I wonder why Apple never thought about using that huge invisible Mac Pro factory in Kentucky, where thousands of high skilled workers are eagerly waiting to CNC those blocks on aluminium. I also bet that Apple will be more than happy to give your a heavy subsidy for your generosity on sharing input, expertise and knowledge. Great job Mr. ElCpitan, great job!
    dewmeyoyo2222watto_cobraurahara
  • Reply 47 of 77
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,602member
    ElCapitan said:
    There is another alternative: Redesign the damned thing with parts that both can be sourced in the US, and at the same time make the machine more flexible in terms of entry configs (that many have requested), and to use standard memory, disk and graphics cards more readily available. That would also broaden the market for it.
    It does use standard memory and can use standard graphics cards. Additionally, the machine and macOS support PCI-E NVME cards (if not the drives directly in a slot), and has two SATA 3.0 ports internal.

    I'm not sure how much more standard part support you want.

    You and I both know that there is no US manufacturing on this scale to speak of, and there will be no redesign.
    What scale?   This machine is not going to be a giant seller as it's an expensive niche machine to be primarily purchased by institutions.   The last time Apple reported unit sales (in fiscal 2018), they reported sales of 18.2 million Macs (of all types).  I doubt this machine will do 5% of that.   That's 900,000 Macs or 75,000 a month....about 3400 a day on a 22 day month.   But you're correct that there will be no redesign.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 77
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,316administrator
    zoetmb said:
    ElCapitan said:
    There is another alternative: Redesign the damned thing with parts that both can be sourced in the US, and at the same time make the machine more flexible in terms of entry configs (that many have requested), and to use standard memory, disk and graphics cards more readily available. That would also broaden the market for it.
    It does use standard memory and can use standard graphics cards. Additionally, the machine and macOS support PCI-E NVME cards (if not the drives directly in a slot), and has two SATA 3.0 ports internal.

    I'm not sure how much more standard part support you want.

    You and I both know that there is no US manufacturing on this scale to speak of, and there will be no redesign.
    What scale?   This machine is not going to be a giant seller as it's an expensive niche machine to be primarily purchased by institutions.   The last time Apple reported unit sales (in fiscal 2018), they reported sales of 18.2 million Macs (of all types).  I doubt this machine will do 5% of that.   That's 900,000 Macs or 75,000 a month....about 3400 a day on a 22 day month.   But you're correct that there will be no redesign.  
    Well, considering nobody in the US is manufacturing 3500 motherboards a day, that qualifies as "on this scale."
    kantxJWSClordjohnwhorfinwatto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 77
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,934member
    kestral said:
    kestral said:
    Apple should STFU and pay their damn tariffs.
    What you’re really saying is that American purchasers  should pay more.
    What I'm really saying is Apple should STFU and pay their damn tariffs.
    You already know that Apple won't absorb the tariffs. Prices will climb for consumers not just for Apple, but across the board for iPhones, Android phones, PCs, and Macs.

    Prices will increase across the board as companies increase pricing to offset the tariffs. This will be industry-wide.
    These are not "Apple's tariffs to pay" in any way, shape, or form. Putting all the political BS aside, and no matter how you want to spin this, left, right, or upside down, it always has been and always will be American and ____________ (insert whomever is America's current foe-of-convenience) consumers and taxpayers who foot the bill and feel the pain for these tariff spewing temper tantrums between dysfunctional trading partners.

    You think you're not paying for tariffs if you aren't an Apple customer? Think again. Tariffs imposed by one country almost always spawn retaliatory tariffs on the other side. Before you get all wrapped up in your smugness of thinking we're delivering a cold hard smackdown on the Chinese at the expense of Evil Apple  (who made us all wait so damn long for a Mac Mini update - those dirty bastards) think about the tens of billions of American dollars US taxpayers are handing over to soybean (and other) farmers to compensate them for massive losses on exports to China.

    You're paying for tariffs one way or the other, whether at the cash register, at tax time, or like way too many things in a country run but rich old men only a few years away from an unavoidable date with the grim reaper, by snowplowing massive deficits on your children and grandchildren that will ensure their lives are as difficult as possible. With tariffs we lose, they lose, everyone loses - yay.

    yoyo2222GeorgeBMacurahara
  • Reply 50 of 77
    ElCapitanElCapitan Posts: 372member
    gutengel said:
    ElCapitan said:
    There is another alternative: Redesign the damned thing with parts that both can be sourced in the US, and at the same time make the machine more flexible in terms of entry configs (that many have requested), and to use standard memory, disk and graphics cards more readily available. That would also broaden the market for it.
    I'm pretty sure Tim just read your message and he's readily working to incorporate your comments on the next iteration of this machine. I wonder why Apple never thought about using that huge invisible Mac Pro factory in Kentucky, where thousands of high skilled workers are eagerly waiting to CNC those blocks on aluminium. I also bet that Apple will be more than happy to give your a heavy subsidy for your generosity on sharing input, expertise and knowledge. Great job Mr. ElCpitan, great job!
    Don't thank me! Thank Timmy & Co for more or less losing an entire market segment they used to be strong in. ;-)
  • Reply 51 of 77
    LoneStar88LoneStar88 Posts: 322member
    The point which seems to have gone missing here so far is that China poses a far more huge threat to our economy and to our sovereignty than IMAGINED price increases of some damn computers which relatively few of us are going to buy anyway.

    So far, tariffs in general have had POSITIVE effects on our economy in the form of factories and manufacturing returning to our shores—to say nothing of the tariff income itself!

    The picture is much bigger than  a mere squabble over Mac Pro manufacturing.

    Just imagine the huge impact a truly-acceptable-to-both-sides trade deal with China will have for the entire planet!! After all, China has been ripping us off for countless decades to the tune of TRILLIONS of dollars, merely because no one before Trump ever called them out for it—and CHINA KNOWS IT!!

    If Trump were to exempt Apple, he'd have to exempt others. Ain't gonna happen!
    edited July 2019 macseekerhmurchison
  • Reply 52 of 77
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    The point which seems to have gone missing here so far is that China poses a far more huge threat to our economy and to our sovereignty than IMAGINED price increases of some damn computers which relatively few of us are going to buy anyway.

    So far, tariffs in general have had POSITIVE effects on our economy in the form of factories and manufacturing returning to our shores—to say nothing of the tariff income itself!

    The picture is much bigger than  a mere squabble over Mac Pro manufacturing.

    Just imaging the huge impact a truly-acceptable-to-both-sides trade deal with China will have for the entire planet!! After all, China has been ripping us off for countless decades to the tune of TRILLIONS of dollars, merely because no one before Trump ever called them out for it—and CHINA KNOWS IT!!

    If Trump were to exempt Apple, he'd have to exempt others. Ain't gonna happen!
    How do you know the tariffs have POSITIVE effects on our economy? If you think US economy depends 100% on trade, you have not taken economics 101 course. 
    dewmeGeorgeBMacbrertech
  • Reply 53 of 77
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,754member
    ElCapitan said:
    ElCapitan said:
    There is another alternative: Redesign the damned thing with parts that both can be sourced in the US, and at the same time make the machine more flexible in terms of entry configs (that many have requested), and to use standard memory, disk and graphics cards more readily available. That would also broaden the market for it.
    It does use standard memory and can use standard graphics cards. Additionally, the machine and macOS support PCI-E NVME cards (if not the drives directly in a slot), and has two SATA 3.0 ports internal.

    I'm not sure how much more standard part support you want.

    You and I both know that there is no US manufacturing on this scale to speak of, and there will be no redesign.
    There won't, so from now on it is Linux on completely different boxes for everything we used to use Apple kit for. 
    Ew, gross.
    JWSC
  • Reply 54 of 77
    netroxnetrox Posts: 1,095member
    Why is Trump's tweet missing? 
  • Reply 55 of 77
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,754member
    ElCapitan said:
    gutengel said:
    ElCapitan said:
    There is another alternative: Redesign the damned thing with parts that both can be sourced in the US, and at the same time make the machine more flexible in terms of entry configs (that many have requested), and to use standard memory, disk and graphics cards more readily available. That would also broaden the market for it.
    I'm pretty sure Tim just read your message and he's readily working to incorporate your comments on the next iteration of this machine. I wonder why Apple never thought about using that huge invisible Mac Pro factory in Kentucky, where thousands of high skilled workers are eagerly waiting to CNC those blocks on aluminium. I also bet that Apple will be more than happy to give your a heavy subsidy for your generosity on sharing input, expertise and knowledge. Great job Mr. ElCpitan, great job!
    Don't thank me! Thank Timmy & Co for more or less losing an entire market segment they used to be strong in. ;-)
    What segment is that? The MPs of yesteryear were used by us web devs and designers and fotogs for tasks that are 100% served by the iMac 5K and the iMac Pro. Completely. What are you use cases that exceed the ability of these machines? 

    Cuz the "I wanna DIY tinker!" is not the target market. 
    edited July 2019 JWSC
  • Reply 56 of 77
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,816member
    A part of me is happy that Apple is not getting a waiver.  Trump made his anti-China stance known fairly early in his administration so Apple apparently being caught unprepared is inexcusable.

    Anyone doing business in China is now on notice.  Since China doesn't play by the rules, they should be punished.  I hope many companies pull out of China and slam the door in its face.  

    I hope this results in Apple expediting moving of their manufacturing outside of China.
    SpamSandwichLoneStar88macseeker
  • Reply 57 of 77
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,316administrator
    netrox said:
    Why is Trump's tweet missing? 
    It looks like he deleted the one with the spelling error, and fixed it about 15 minutes later. We'll update the link in a little while.
    netroxbrertech
  • Reply 58 of 77
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    wigby said:
    It’s unacceptable that Apple should be caught so unprepared when this President made his intentions very clear about trade with China before and after the election. Apple should’ve been making plans for alternative suppliers and had those plans in place by now. It’s just plain tunnel vision.
    As if Trump is that predictable. I'm sure you saw every single thing coming from a mile away. Meanwhile, no one in the tech industry has made a single move to avoid this because no one knows what Trump is talking about including Trump.
    Please. This is part of risk mitigation. Apple should’ve had contingency plans in place. They have failed in their obligations to shareholders on this front.
    Sanctum1972
  • Reply 59 of 77
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    JWSC said:
    georgie01 said:
    tomahawk said:
    Easy solution.  Do the same thing retailers love to do with sales.  Put a red slash through it but then put the phrase "Tariff Price: " and make it 25% higher.  Make it crystal clear who is actually paying for the tariffs (US consumers).
    Our culture lives on a dreamboat thinking we can enact great change with minimal inconvenience to our own lives. We’re in a lot of the messes we’re in now because we want to be comfortable, because we don’t want to lose anything ‘important’ to us.

    If we need to pay a ‘25%’ tax on products to help put China in its place then we should be willing.
    The tariff percentages are completely arbitrary and meant to pressure China into blinking. Hasn’t really worked so far, but the President plays hard and it worked with Canada and Mexico. We’ll see how much economic damage China is willing to accept.
    Minor point but don’t forget that the US will also experience economic damage as well.
    China is far more dependent on trade with the US than the reverse.
  • Reply 60 of 77
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    badmonk said:

    tzeshan said:
    I want to know where are those Windows PCs and servers made? Are they made in USA? 
    Some are assembled in the US. Nearly every part for every manufacturer comes from China.
    and in Mexico (HP).  And I am concerned that this random shoot from the hip approach to tariffs will achieve nothing but diminish profits, growth and increase consumer costs.  And in the end the jobs will move to Vietnam and Malaysia, Indonesia, etc.

    But this computer is not going to be made in the Wisconsin Foxconn factory.  No matter what.
    Many Chinese and Taiwanese manufacturers have operations in Vietnam, Malaysia, India, parts of Africa, etc. Rising labor costs IN CHINA played a part in this. And I’m referring to a trend which started years ago, not recently.
This discussion has been closed.