Apple's new 16-inch MacBook Pro is built to blaze through pro workflows

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  • Reply 141 of 236
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,088member
    MplsP said:
    No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
    I can't tell if you're being serious or not. This remains a crazy take on Thunderbolt 3.
    Wow. Nice insult, Mike. Real people don’t expect to invest in all new accessories and adapters every time they eventually replace their old outdated MacBook Pro. There should be an expectation of some backward compatibility.
    There is no insult here.

    Thunderbolt 3 is USB-C which is USB. So, there is backwards compatibility. Computer users have always, always had to either get new cables or adapters. It has been thus for 40 years, and you know it.

    If you don't want a pile of adapters, then don't get them. There are a plethora of docks and breakouts -- and we've reviewed nearly all of the good ones.
    I can’t believe you just wrote that. Thunderbolt 3 is not USB-C, nor is it USB. USB C is a connector that is capable of carrying USB 3 and Thunderbolt data as well as higher current for charging. That is partly why USB C is such a bloody mess. One port might do everything or it might do only one of those things. And the cable might be able to do some or even all of these, but you’re never quite sure.
    Reading comprehension is not your thing is it?


    Soli13485watto_cobra
  • Reply 142 of 236
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,753member
    elijahg said:
    These do look very nice, especially good that they seem to be putting some effort into having a decent GPU now. Shame it's not Nvidia, but still we can't expect Apple to get over their spat with Nvidia for at least 7 years. The keyboard change is really an admission that the butterfly mechanism was a bad design. If the third iteration was reliable, Apple wouldn't have changed back. I do think there is some psychology in that decision, but still.

    It does seem that as soon as the world starts to catch up to the connectors on Apple's current computers, they switch to something else. HDMI is becoming fairly ubiquitous, but now we need an adapter. HDMI is thin enough to fit on the Macbook, there is no reason to not include it. It's incredibly useful to be able to connect to devices without an adapter. No worries if you forget it, or don't know you're going to need it before you leave. I've replaced the presenting PC with my 13" 2015 MacBook several times when people have had issues, which wouldn't be possible without its built-in HDMI.
    sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.

    how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .

    but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
    No adapter required. $18.

    That's still an adapter, it adapts from one format to another, just all in one cable.
    It is no more an adapter than a HDMI to HDMI cable is, or a HDMI to mini-HDMI. USB-C literally contains the HDMI spec.
    Adapter:
    • noun One that adapts, such as a device used to effect operative compatibility between different parts of one or more pieces of apparatus.
    It's an adapter. But in any case, the majority of projectors have HDMI, the majority of projectors plug directly into older Macbooks (and most PCs) with no adapter, and the cable is usually provided already. But with the USB-C Macs, you need an adapter. Oh sorry, I mean a special cable with two different ends to adapt the USB-C port.

    Many many business conference rooms with projectors have HDMI wired into the wall. None have USB-C. Good luck finding a USB C TV or a non-portable USB C projector too. Yes I'm sure they'll come, but forcing this incompatibility on users is annoying, when having both would provide a transition period. The industry is moving to USB-C, and will be all the better for it, but Apple making it harder to use their Macs won't speed up the industry. It'd be like saying EVs are here, need to stop all petrol production tomorrow. It's never anywhere near as fast as Apple likes to think it is in their Silicon Valley bubble.
    MplsPfreethinking
  • Reply 143 of 236
    dr. xdr. x Posts: 282member
    MplsP said:

    This. HDMI is THE standard when it comes to video connections for presentations. It’s simple and nearly universal. I have yet to see a video projector in a conference room that doesn’t have it and beyond that, none of these projectors can do 4K, so being able to connect 100 monitors via the thunderbolt 10 port is a completely moot point. My daughter needed a new laptop for college and her first question was “does it have an HDMI port, ‘cause that’s what I need to do presentations”

    Now all of the Apple sycophants will go on and on about ‘just buy an adapter’ and ‘be prepared’ and how it’s obviously your fault for not having the right equipment with, and I assume that none of these people have ever forgotten anything or had an adapter break or have someone borrow it and not return it, etc. Nor have they had an adapter not work properly. The fact of the matter is, rather than have a couple of the most common ports available to people, Apple made a decision that ‘we can make USB C do everything’ and, user convenience be damned, they can go out and buy all the ports cables and docks and hubs. 

    As for “cables vs adapters” - that’s a completely semantic argument and ignores the point.


    I'll byte.

    What about the users who want this laptop, with 4 USB-C ports, and never ever want to do a presentation? Never in need of HDMI?

    See Phil's take on ports:
    “Do you think there’s ever a chance that the SD card slot makes a comeback?”

    Schiller replied:

    “Probably not, again nothing about the future is in stone, and things can always change. But, as we’ve been spending a lot of time with MacBook Pro surveying what our customers use, what I/O they need, where their needs are growing and how they are changing, and did a lot of soul searching on it and asking ourselves about a lot of connectors about USB-A about SD card readers, about HDMI and requestioning everything. And really what we came down to is more and more customers are taking advantage of USB-C and Thunderbolt, love the incredible headroom in performance there is there, the higher power there is, the charging ability there is, and so we think having on the highest-end notebook four USB-C/Thunderbolt ports gives the most headroom for the things you will be doing in the years ahead. And the trade-off is for a few traditional media types like SD card readers means using an adapter but there are USB-C adapters, I carry one for that. And ultimately, that gives you the highest performance and most flexibility with this arrangement. So after a lot of soul searching, we think we’ve done the best thing for customers with the I/O we have, meaning we don’t have every port type in the world on it.”




    Great video, thanks for sharing!
  • Reply 144 of 236
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,901member
    It certainly no brainer for those who were in market to buy 15" MBP. Apple listened to us and reflected changes in 16" MBP. Thank you Apple.
    Now writing is on the wall after the release of 16" MBP, Early next year we will be talking about 13" MBP and MBA replacement with 14" version. With 16" and next update to MBP/MBA, Apple's Macbook line is going get lots of love along with upcoming update to iPad and iPhones, The year 2020 looks great for Apple.
    edited November 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 145 of 236
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    I would put the port argument this way:

    Is there a single person in the entire world who would NOT buy this new machine if it had one HDMI and one legacy USB port in addition to the four TB3 ports? Even if the machine had a slight taper at the rear to accommodate the additional port thickness? I say no.

    Are there people who won't buy this machine, say for a daughter going to college, because it does NOT have an HDMI port? Yes.

    Sometimes Apple succeeds in spite of itself. 
    That makes no sense. Nobody isn’t going to buy this machine because it doesn’t have an hdmi port. And nobody isn’t going to buy it because of a usb A port either. That’s just silly.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 146 of 236
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    These do look very nice, especially good that they seem to be putting some effort into having a decent GPU now. Shame it's not Nvidia, but still we can't expect Apple to get over their spat with Nvidia for at least 7 years. The keyboard change is really an admission that the butterfly mechanism was a bad design. If the third iteration was reliable, Apple wouldn't have changed back. I do think there is some psychology in that decision, but still.

    It does seem that as soon as the world starts to catch up to the connectors on Apple's current computers, they switch to something else. HDMI is becoming fairly ubiquitous, but now we need an adapter. HDMI is thin enough to fit on the Macbook, there is no reason to not include it. It's incredibly useful to be able to connect to devices without an adapter. No worries if you forget it, or don't know you're going to need it before you leave. I've replaced the presenting PC with my 13" 2015 MacBook several times when people have had issues, which wouldn't be possible without its built-in HDMI.
    sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.

    how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .

    but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
    No adapter required. $18.

    That's still an adapter, it adapts from one format to another, just all in one cable.
    It is no more an adapter than a HDMI to HDMI cable is, or a HDMI to mini-HDMI. USB-C literally contains the HDMI spec.
    Adapter:
    • noun One that adapts, such as a device used to effect operative compatibility between different parts of one or more pieces of apparatus.
    It's an adapter. But in any case, the majority of projectors have HDMI, the majority of projectors plug directly into older Macbooks (and most PCs) with no adapter, and the cable is usually provided already. But with the USB-C Macs, you need an adapter. Oh sorry, I mean a special cable with two different ends to adapt the USB-C port.

    Many many business conference rooms with projectors have HDMI wired into the wall. None have USB-C. Good luck finding a USB C TV or a non-portable USB C projector too. Yes I'm sure they'll come, but forcing this incompatibility on users is annoying, when having both would provide a transition period. The industry is moving to USB-C, and will be all the better for it, but Apple making it harder to use their Macs won't speed up the industry. It'd be like saying EVs are here, need to stop all petrol production tomorrow. It's never anywhere near as fast as Apple likes to think it is in their Silicon Valley bubble.
    I’m certainly not an Apple Engineer, so I could be wrong on this opinion, which may or may not be factual...

    There are many ports that could still fit on the chassis of the MacBook Pro, including HDMI. However each port they add requires a circuit path on the motherboard, and sometimes may also require an additional chip for signal/data processing back to the CPU or GPU.

    Sticking with four Thunderbolt ports simplifies the motherboard design. The smaller the motherboard, the more space there is for batteries inside the chasis. Smaller/simpler motherboards will also draw less power, which again improves battery life. The fewer the chips that Apple can place on the board results in efficiency gains.
    fastasleepdysamoriatenthousandthingspscooter63anomewatto_cobra
  • Reply 147 of 236
    DuhSesame said:
    MplsP said:
    sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.

    how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .

    but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
    No adapter required. $18.

    you are welcome to use my dell when you rock up to a presentation with the "adapter" cable you linked to, because what you really need is the female side. 9 of 10 times you cant get to the projector. besides linking to an "adapter" cable to support your claim no adapter is required is weird.  
    To counter your apocrypha, I have some of my own. Just in 2019, I have done many, many presentations with a cable (not adapter) identical to this one, and every single time I've been able to get to said projector.

    Sure, if you have some kind of strange setup with a hardwired HDMI connector and no access to the projector, then you may need an adapter, and it is absolutely on the presenter to make sure you have the tools you need to get the job done, so I wouldn't need to use your Dell anyway.

    And, in older conference rooms, your HDMI out on your Dell may need a DVI adapter or HDMI to DVI cable which is still not an adapter -- the abject horror.
    You must never have been in a conference room with the projector mounted in the ceiling.

    As for the the DVI, what’s your point? No one is claiming the MBP should have every port, just the single most common one that’s been standard for the last 5 years. The few conference rooms that I’ve been in that have DVI connectors also had either HDMI jacks or a DVI - HDMI adaptor (= short cable, since you’re hung up on the length)
    Some have been in the ceiling, but there's been a female HDMI port in a wall or desk for me to plug my cable into. Regardless if you're responsible for giving a presentation, regardless of what hardware or ports you have, it is absolutely your responsibility to make sure you have what you need. I'm not precisely sure still what the hangup is here, given that USB-C contains HDMI. It's not like you need an powered active converter or anything, here.

    What's an adapter and what's a cable is very, very clear. If you have to plug another cable into it, it is an adapter. If you don't and you can connect to a peripheral with no other connections, it is a cable.

    I don't think that there's an argument to be made that more connections in a cable length are a good thing. Having a cable from point A to point C is better than having an adapter from point A to point B, then a cable to point C. So, it's good news that cables from USB-C to anywhere exist, then, huh?

    Even if I had to have an adapter or dongle for something, it's not any different than what we've had to do as computer users for four decades. Thus, the remark about the DVI.

    And?  Your point?  Nobody ever said it can't be an adapter.
    My point, smart ass, is that there’s a female version of the USB-C cable Mike W posted. As the #1 bestseller in Thunderbolt cables, I’m apparently not the only one who finds it convenient. 
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 148 of 236
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.
    I can't tell if you're being serious or not. This remains a crazy take on Thunderbolt 3.
    Wow. Nice insult, Mike. Real people don’t expect to invest in all new accessories and adapters every time they eventually replace their old outdated MacBook Pro. There should be an expectation of some backward compatibility.
    There is no insult here.

    Thunderbolt 3 is USB-C which is USB. So, there is backwards compatibility. Computer users have always, always had to either get new cables or adapters. It has been thus for 40 years, and you know it.

    If you don't want a pile of adapters, then don't get them. There are a plethora of docks and breakouts -- and we've reviewed nearly all of the good ones.
    “This remains a crazy take on Thunderbolt 3.”

    That’s an insult.
    I may not agree with Mike here all the time but the truth is not an insult!!!    I strongly suggest reading up on the USB-C spec.   By the way I don’t disagree that retro fitting for old hardware is a pain but if you have spent anytime at all in the industry you will understand just how completely old stuff becomes useless. 

    Early in my career I worked on Multibus systems with bubble memory.  Try finding that hardware any more.  My first computer was a C32 Commodore.l, everything on that was useless faster than I’d ever imagine back then.  My Mac Plus lasted years but again nothing was really useful by the time I upgraded.  

    Technology has an ugly side and that is its rapid advancement.  This happened in the world of photography too.   Digital in as little as a decade almost completely destroyed a local company (Kodak)  and from the consummers perspective went through rapid cycles of outdated hardware.   In a nut shell you have either accept tech moving forward or live in the past.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 149 of 236
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    slurpy said:
    They've pretty much addressed 100% of the complaints of the previous model (ESC key, KB, arrow keys, bezels, thermal system, etc). Also, 512GB and 16GB on base model is amazing. Not sure how anyone can NOT be satisfied. This seems like the perfect machine and looking forward to upgrading from my 2014 15".
    Well it still uses an Intel CPU and these suffer significantly from performance mitigation’s to address poor design of the processors.   That is they run slower than AMDs chips now due to security issues.  Worse new security issues seem to show up monthly.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 150 of 236
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    DuhSesame said:
    MplsP said:
    sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.

    how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .

    but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
    No adapter required. $18.

    you are welcome to use my dell when you rock up to a presentation with the "adapter" cable you linked to, because what you really need is the female side. 9 of 10 times you cant get to the projector. besides linking to an "adapter" cable to support your claim no adapter is required is weird.  
    To counter your apocrypha, I have some of my own. Just in 2019, I have done many, many presentations with a cable (not adapter) identical to this one, and every single time I've been able to get to said projector.

    Sure, if you have some kind of strange setup with a hardwired HDMI connector and no access to the projector, then you may need an adapter, and it is absolutely on the presenter to make sure you have the tools you need to get the job done, so I wouldn't need to use your Dell anyway.

    And, in older conference rooms, your HDMI out on your Dell may need a DVI adapter or HDMI to DVI cable which is still not an adapter -- the abject horror.
    You must never have been in a conference room with the projector mounted in the ceiling.

    As for the the DVI, what’s your point? No one is claiming the MBP should have every port, just the single most common one that’s been standard for the last 5 years. The few conference rooms that I’ve been in that have DVI connectors also had either HDMI jacks or a DVI - HDMI adaptor (= short cable, since you’re hung up on the length)
    Some have been in the ceiling, but there's been a female HDMI port in a wall or desk for me to plug my cable into. Regardless if you're responsible for giving a presentation, regardless of what hardware or ports you have, it is absolutely your responsibility to make sure you have what you need. I'm not precisely sure still what the hangup is here, given that USB-C contains HDMI. It's not like you need an powered active converter or anything, here.

    What's an adapter and what's a cable is very, very clear. If you have to plug another cable into it, it is an adapter. If you don't and you can connect to a peripheral with no other connections, it is a cable.

    I don't think that there's an argument to be made that more connections in a cable length are a good thing. Having a cable from point A to point C is better than having an adapter from point A to point B, then a cable to point C. So, it's good news that cables from USB-C to anywhere exist, then, huh?

    Even if I had to have an adapter or dongle for something, it's not any different than what we've had to do as computer users for four decades. Thus, the remark about the DVI.

    And?  Your point?  Nobody ever said it can't be an adapter.
    My point, smart ass, is that there’s a female version of the USB-C cable Mike W posted. As the #1 bestseller in Thunderbolt cables, I’m apparently not the only one who finds it convenient. 
    Gee.
    lol.
  • Reply 151 of 236
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.

    how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .

    but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
    No adapter required. $18.

    you are welcome to use my dell when you rock up to a presentation with the "adapter" cable you linked to, because what you really need is the female side. 9 of 10 times you cant get to the projector. besides linking to an "adapter" cable to support your claim no adapter is required is weird.  
    To counter your apocrypha, I have some of my own. Just in 2019, I have done many, many presentations with a cable (not adapter) identical to this one, and every single time I've been able to get to said projector.

    Sure, if you have some kind of strange setup with a hardwired HDMI connector and no access to the projector, then you may need an adapter, and it is absolutely on the presenter to make sure you have the tools you need to get the job done, so I wouldn't need to use your Dell anyway.

    And, in older conference rooms, your HDMI out on your Dell may need a DVI adapter or HDMI to DVI cable which is still not an adapter -- the abject horror.
    Mike, I suggest AI staffs do an ultimate guide about how to prepare for all Type-C environments.  A couple of my recommendations:

    USB-A OTG adapters:


    Beware that there are fake ones or false advertisements, some shorter ones can only do USB 2.0.

    It can be used as a cap for your Type-A flash drives, or another end plug on your male cable.

    2.0 is great for low-speed drives and peripherals like RS-232 or external optical drive, while 3.0 is essential for faster drives.  I'll say 2.0 will be more useful if you have tons of peripherals.  3.0 is bulky where 2.0 can be really slim.





    depends on how slim they are, you might be able to fit two drives side-by-side.  All of them allowed another Type-C cable at least.

    Other recommendations including those MagSafe replacements, but having a Type-C at the end.  The smaller and more compact, the better.




    You guys should also write about how to make your Type-C environment neat and clean, as well as how to handle most of the situations at work (like using a projector).  This will be much more useful as it will save tons of worthless arguments in the future.

    Thunderbolt 3 is fast and way more powerful so it's quite wasteful when you only use it for charging.  If you want to set up a small workstation, it would be nice to use one port for all -- DP daisy chain, 100W Power supply, and eGPU.
    edited November 2019 philboogiewatto_cobra
  • Reply 152 of 236
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Wow what a bitch session.   

    I can understand both sides of the ports issue.  At work we keep a couple of old laptops around because of ports and operating systems compatibility.  In the end though you really need to leave the old stuff behind and focus on modern features for your primary work machine.   At least with modern systems the horrors of 99 different RS232 cables is gone.  

    I need to see what is being offered here but my initial review indicates that Apple might actually be taking Mac hardware seriously these days.  Simple things like the escape key are huge if you make use of VM’s and alternative operating systems.  One of my past reasons to go the Mac route was in fact the ability to run those VM’s and this revision looks like a winner in that regard.  

    Right now I’m most impressed with the GPU upgrade.   A good GPU does much to extend the life of a laptop.   Also Apple seems to have pulled head from ass over base RAM and SSD sizes. Lots of other nice improvements too.  

    Will this machine be good enough to get me to start buying Macs again?    That is very hard to say but it will not be this year anyways.   I’d like too see how the “13 MBP” gets revved.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 153 of 236
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    wizard69 said:
    Wow what a bitch session.   

    I can understand both sides of the ports issue.  At work we keep a couple of old laptops around because of ports and operating systems compatibility.  In the end though you really need to leave the old stuff behind and focus on modern features for your primary work machine.   At least with modern systems the horrors of 99 different RS232 cables is gone.  

    I need to see what is being offered here but my initial review indicates that Apple might actually be taking Mac hardware seriously these days.  Simple things like the escape key are huge if you make use of VM’s and alternative operating systems.  One of my past reasons to go the Mac route was in fact the ability to run those VM’s and this revision looks like a winner in that regard.  

    Right now I’m most impressed with the GPU upgrade.   A good GPU does much to extend the life of a laptop.   Also Apple seems to have pulled head from ass over base RAM and SSD sizes. Lots of other nice improvements too.  

    Will this machine be good enough to get me to start buying Macs again?    That is very hard to say but it will not be this year anyways.   I’d like too see how the “13 MBP” gets revved.  
    It's unfair when most complaints won't even take new ports seriously.  Many of their situations have simple workarounds yet they refuse to accept that.  They got their laptops yet they won't use it to the fullest potential, then makes the rest of us miserable.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 154 of 236
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,818administrator
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    These do look very nice, especially good that they seem to be putting some effort into having a decent GPU now. Shame it's not Nvidia, but still we can't expect Apple to get over their spat with Nvidia for at least 7 years. The keyboard change is really an admission that the butterfly mechanism was a bad design. If the third iteration was reliable, Apple wouldn't have changed back. I do think there is some psychology in that decision, but still.

    It does seem that as soon as the world starts to catch up to the connectors on Apple's current computers, they switch to something else. HDMI is becoming fairly ubiquitous, but now we need an adapter. HDMI is thin enough to fit on the Macbook, there is no reason to not include it. It's incredibly useful to be able to connect to devices without an adapter. No worries if you forget it, or don't know you're going to need it before you leave. I've replaced the presenting PC with my 13" 2015 MacBook several times when people have had issues, which wouldn't be possible without its built-in HDMI.
    sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.

    how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .

    but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
    No adapter required. $18.

    That's still an adapter, it adapts from one format to another, just all in one cable.
    It is no more an adapter than a HDMI to HDMI cable is, or a HDMI to mini-HDMI. USB-C literally contains the HDMI spec.
    Adapter:
    • noun One that adapts, such as a device used to effect operative compatibility between different parts of one or more pieces of apparatus.
    It's an adapter. But in any case, the majority of projectors have HDMI, the majority of projectors plug directly into older Macbooks (and most PCs) with no adapter, and the cable is usually provided already. But with the USB-C Macs, you need an adapter. Oh sorry, I mean a special cable with two different ends to adapt the USB-C port.

    Many many business conference rooms with projectors have HDMI wired into the wall. None have USB-C. Good luck finding a USB C TV or a non-portable USB C projector too. Yes I'm sure they'll come, but forcing this incompatibility on users is annoying, when having both would provide a transition period. The industry is moving to USB-C, and will be all the better for it, but Apple making it harder to use their Macs won't speed up the industry. It'd be like saying EVs are here, need to stop all petrol production tomorrow. It's never anywhere near as fast as Apple likes to think it is in their Silicon Valley bubble.
    Okay, then a USB-A to USB-B peripheral cable or a USB-A to Lightning cable is an adapter then since it has two different ends, got it. And, by the definition, a USB-C to HDMI cable is not a "device used to effect operative compatibility" as it is a straight-through cable with no intermediate circuitry to make or translate the signal to something else.

    So, still no.

    Regardless, Apple still isn't going back. Instead of allocating two (or four) PCI-E channels to a port with one use, HDMI, it has chosen to use it for a port that can be used for anything. In my opinion, as one who gives presentations frequently, this is better.

    My original point was, you don't need to spend dollars on "ugly adapters" because there is no need to do so. There will always be, and have always been, cabling to get from point A to point C. 

    You may not like it, but Thunderbolt 3 is what they settled on for their portable Macs. If you want a small, light machine to give presentations on with HDMI, bring a Mac mini. It'll be cheaper than the MacBook Pro as a bonus.
    edited November 2019 fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 155 of 236
    It's interesting that the base price of ~$2300 is just about what the original Mac cost back in 1984.  In terms of specs, it's an entirely different universe.  Moreover, $2300 was a lot more money in 1984 than it is now.  Computational power is insanely cheap now.
    $2300 in 1984 equals to

    $5,696.78 today.

    So today you are getting almost 2,5 times cheaper computer than what you would have spend on 1984 machine.


    How much faster the today's computer is? Can some one please let us know?

    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 156 of 236
    elijahg said:
    These do look very nice, especially good that they seem to be putting some effort into having a decent GPU now. Shame it's not Nvidia, but still we can't expect Apple to get over their spat with Nvidia for at least 7 years. The keyboard change is really an admission that the butterfly mechanism was a bad design. If the third iteration was reliable, Apple wouldn't have changed back. I do think there is some psychology in that decision, but still.

    It does seem that as soon as the world starts to catch up to the connectors on Apple's current computers, they switch to something else. HDMI is becoming fairly ubiquitous, but now we need an adapter. HDMI is thin enough to fit on the Macbook, there is no reason to not include it. It's incredibly useful to be able to connect to devices without an adapter. No worries if you forget it, or don't know you're going to need it before you leave. I've replaced the presenting PC with my 13" 2015 MacBook several times when people have had issues, which wouldn't be possible without its built-in HDMI.
    sudden outbreak of common sense, maybe finally a decent keyboard again to replace the pieces of shit they put in over past years and a proper "esc" key is the right call ... excellent! its progress in the right direction but it looks like it still needs $100+ dollars of adapters to do anything useful.

    how hard is it to make a "pro" machine that does not need an adapter to plug into HDMI (essentially what is required by any presentation in business or education) .

    but non butterfly keyboard and a decent 'esc' key is already a good first step to get back to the formerly brilliant mac book pros.
    No adapter required. $18.

    That's still an adapter, it adapts from one format to another, just all in one cable.
    LoL. No.
    Then by our logic USB cables a couple years ago were all also adapters.
    No one called it an adapter. Everyone called it just a USB-cable.
    We have a comon understanding what we call adapters. You try to play with the logic witout considering the language (and mutual agreement) itself.
    fastasleeppscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 157 of 236
    I work for a large company in a new building.  Conference rooms all have big TVs. 

    In every table are retractable HDMI/Ethernet cords.

    Also just sitting on every table are little keychains with 3 adapters:

    1 is iPhone to HDMI (plus a USB-C-looking shape on the output side [not sure if this can be an input; doubt it]).
    The other two I might not know the names:
    Mini-DisplayPort?  The one that fits my 2009 MacBook:  Really small fat-rectangle, with two tiny corner-cuts.
    Display Port?  The one that looks like HDMI at first glance, but has a significant corner-cut on only one side.

    Oops, I see the coming-reaction here.  "None are USB-C shape to HDMI".  That's true actually.

    YMMV.
    Within the last 2 years  I worked for 2 multibillion companies.
    Both had USB-C adapters in conference rooms.

    At the current company at the floor with conference rooms, we have also a charging station for your phones. All lockers have also USB-C cable to charge.

    In a new Mercedes Benz A Class, there is only USB-C port to connect your phone.


    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 158 of 236
    The only problem Apple has with the ports is that USB-C is long overdue on iPhone.
    right_said_fredfastasleep
  • Reply 159 of 236


    Stay foolish. And bring a beamer.
    tobybeaglewatto_cobra
  • Reply 160 of 236
    croprcropr Posts: 1,114member

    cropr said:
    No listing of all the ports and connectors? THAT is what separates a pro computer from the incapable POS’ we’ve been getting called MacBook Pro.

    UPDATE: Four Thunderbolt 3 ports. That’s all. Good lord... from their web site:

    ” MacBook Pro is equipped with four ports, so you can do all of that from either side. Existing devices are easily connected with a cable or adapter. And Thunderbolt 3 is reversible, so no matter how you plug in, it’s always right side up.”

    It’ll still be a massive shitpile of adapters on a regular desk. Hate this mentality of theirs. Is it really asking for too much to expect some actual USB, Ethernet or other kinds of ports to REDUCE the number of adapters?
    It has USB. USB-C is the latest iteration of USB. You don’t need adapters, you just need the proper cables for your devices. Do you understand that? Cables. Plenty of A-to-C cables. 

    Are you honestly asking for an ethernet port!?
    I give at lot of customer presentations and they all, without exception, give me a HDMI cable for the big screen in the meeting room.   So it is not the proper cable that is the issue but the proper port on my laptop.     And don't make me "educate" my customers. 
    Sounds like you have a special use case. Not typical for the typical pro customer, which Apple’s Craig has said is software development. So no harm in asking you to use an adapter to support your special use case of “presentations where I can’t use my own cable”. Good thing they exist, right? But still no reason to add single-use extra ports to every single customer for your specific use case. 
    There is nothing special about the use case of all my customers; it is the most common use case in a corporate environment.    Can I use an dongle? Of course,  but it is an unnecessary annoyance.

    For big screen in meeting rooms, Thunderbolt does not offer any technically advantage wrt HDMI.  They both can carry a 4K digital video signal at 60 Hz.

    What is a a special use case on the other hand, is people needing 4 Thunderbolt connections.   So a machine with 3 Thunderbold connections and 1 HDMI interface is much more practical
    MplsPelijahg
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