No, Apple's new Mac Pro isn't overpriced

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 233
    It's somewhat amusing to see the Apple fans defend Apple's pricing - note I am huge fan and have all their gear. But if we can't even get ourselves to admit this stuff then well, nothing will ever change. It took a lot to get Apple to admit its mistakes with the MacBook Pro rectified with the new ones re Keyboard, Escape key, good GPU now etc.

    This new Mac Pro when specced out on the high end is not over priced - it's comparable or even lower cost compared to HP or DELL in this space.

    Where the Mac Pro IS over priced is on the low end. Given this is a "Pro" device, there is no reason for the low end machine with a 256GB SSD, Radeon 580 Pro to even EXIST! Priced at $5999. 

    There once was a time when you could get a fully loaded Quad G5 for way less. Anyway, I hope Apple releases a Mac Pro tower, perhaps with only 3 slots to justify (for them) a lower cost so that other folks can get in - folks that don't necessarily need the power but want the "hard core" performance.
    edited December 2019 KITAdysamoriawilliamlondonmike54
  • Reply 62 of 233
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    KITA said:
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:

    Apple's Mac Pro versus Windows workstation prices

    Workstations have always been expensive. The Mac Pro is no exception to that rule, and Windows workstations are priced similarly to the Mac Pro.

    First of all, those machines come with 3 years of on-site warranty (and for a hundred or so more, that can be bumped to 5 years of on-site next business day).

    Second, no company ever pays the website price. It's typically lower (15% to 30%), even for a single unit purchase.

    Hey!

    I haven't seen you in a while.

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Surface-Laptop-3-15-Ryzen-5-Review-Microsoft-Can-Do-Better.440183.0.html#toc-performance-one-of-the-better-ryzen-u-laptops

    I'm still remembering this, three times the power!
    That's Ryzen, and it's awful, not exactly Ice Lake.
    Oh, yeah.  Those 15" sucks, their 13" sibling should be much better!

    right?



    meh, giving the score I've lost my faith.
  • Reply 63 of 233
    KITAKITA Posts: 409member
    Just a quick comparison on the low end of things:

    Lenovo ThinkStation P520: ~$4000
    • Intel Xeon W-2145 (8 cores)
    • 32 GB ECC DDR4-2666
    • NVIDIA RTX Quadro 4000 8 GB
    • 512 GB M2 PCIe SSD
    • Thunderbolt 3
    • 5G Ethernet
    • 900W
    • 5 years on-site next business day warranty
    • ISV certified for a wide range of software
    The same machine via EPP is around 25% less (~$3000), which is similar to what a company might pay when purchasing.
  • Reply 64 of 233
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    It's somewhat amusing to see the Apple fans defend Apple's pricing - note I am huge fan and have all their gear. But if we can't even get ourselves to admit this stuff then well, nothing will ever change. It took a lot to get Apple to admit its mistakes with the MacBook Pro rectified with the new ones re Keyboard, Escape key, good GPU now etc.

    This new Mac Pro when specced out on the high end is not over priced - it's comparable or even lower cost compared to HP or DELL in this space.

    Where the Mac Pro IS over priced is on the low end. Given this is a "Pro" device, there is no reason for the low end machine with a 256GB SSD, Radeon 580 Pro to even EXIST! Priced at $5999. 

    There once was a time when you could get a fully loaded Quad G5 for way less. Anyway, I hope Apple releases a Mac Pro tower, perhaps with only 3 slots to justify (for them) a lower cost so that other folks can get in - folks that don't necessarily need the power but want the "hard core" performance.
    Yeah, guilt trip.  The whole world is running by...

    They don't take the platform as a whole into account and assume whatever they saw it's true.

    Sure you can find faster and cheaper lower-end products and call yourself a winner.  Even a teenager could do that math.  So?  Every socket they've added on the board, or the possibility of the processor was free all of the sudden?

    They just don't think anything further than what they could afford.  More power to them (I like cheap stuff too), but it's foolish to ask a premium tool (and not primarily for personal use) to be cheaper.
  • Reply 65 of 233
    KITAKITA Posts: 409member
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:

    Apple's Mac Pro versus Windows workstation prices

    Workstations have always been expensive. The Mac Pro is no exception to that rule, and Windows workstations are priced similarly to the Mac Pro.

    First of all, those machines come with 3 years of on-site warranty (and for a hundred or so more, that can be bumped to 5 years of on-site next business day).

    Second, no company ever pays the website price. It's typically lower (15% to 30%), even for a single unit purchase.

    Hey!

    I haven't seen you in a while.

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Surface-Laptop-3-15-Ryzen-5-Review-Microsoft-Can-Do-Better.440183.0.html#toc-performance-one-of-the-better-ryzen-u-laptops

    I'm still remembering this, three times the power!
    That's Ryzen, and it's awful, not exactly Ice Lake.
    Oh, yeah.  Those 15" sucks, their 13" sibling should be much better!

    right?



    meh, giving the score I've lost my faith.
    Head to head their Ice Lake implementation is better than Ryzen:


  • Reply 66 of 233
    DuhSesame said:
    It's somewhat amusing to see the Apple fans defend Apple's pricing - note I am huge fan and have all their gear. But if we can't even get ourselves to admit this stuff then well, nothing will ever change. It took a lot to get Apple to admit its mistakes with the MacBook Pro rectified with the new ones re Keyboard, Escape key, good GPU now etc.

    This new Mac Pro when specced out on the high end is not over priced - it's comparable or even lower cost compared to HP or DELL in this space.

    Where the Mac Pro IS over priced is on the low end. Given this is a "Pro" device, there is no reason for the low end machine with a 256GB SSD, Radeon 580 Pro to even EXIST! Priced at $5999. 

    There once was a time when you could get a fully loaded Quad G5 for way less. Anyway, I hope Apple releases a Mac Pro tower, perhaps with only 3 slots to justify (for them) a lower cost so that other folks can get in - folks that don't necessarily need the power but want the "hard core" performance.
    Yeah, guilt trip.  The whole world is running by...

    They don't take the platform as a whole into account and assume whatever they saw it's true.

    Sure you can find faster and cheaper lower-end products and call yourself a winner.  Even a teenager could do that math.  So?  Every socket they've added on the board, or the possibility of the processor was free all of the sudden?

    They just don't think anything further than what they could afford.  More power to them (I like cheap stuff too), but it's foolish to ask a premium tool (and not primarily
    for personal use) to be cheaper.
    In response to your last paragraph:
    This is where your argument fails - the quality of the Apple gear is no better or worse. I've had to take my AirPods, Apple Watch and two MacBook Pro (both with butterfly keyboards) back. Not to mention the countless software issues (bugs) over the last couple of years. Similar priced and specced machines sold by Dell or Microsoft have comparable quality. Fortunately my new MacBook Pro 16 hasn't had any issues these past three weeks. 
    dysamoria
  • Reply 67 of 233
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    KITA said:
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:

    Apple's Mac Pro versus Windows workstation prices

    Workstations have always been expensive. The Mac Pro is no exception to that rule, and Windows workstations are priced similarly to the Mac Pro.

    First of all, those machines come with 3 years of on-site warranty (and for a hundred or so more, that can be bumped to 5 years of on-site next business day).

    Second, no company ever pays the website price. It's typically lower (15% to 30%), even for a single unit purchase.

    Hey!

    I haven't seen you in a while.

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Surface-Laptop-3-15-Ryzen-5-Review-Microsoft-Can-Do-Better.440183.0.html#toc-performance-one-of-the-better-ryzen-u-laptops

    I'm still remembering this, three times the power!
    That's Ryzen, and it's awful, not exactly Ice Lake.
    Oh, yeah.  Those 15" sucks, their 13" sibling should be much better!

    right?



    meh, giving the score I've lost my faith.
    Head to head their Ice Lake implementation is better than Ryzen:


    So?

    Are they 3x faster than the MacBook Air?

    https://www.cnet.com/reviews/microsoft-surface-laptop-3-13-5-inch-review/

    Yeah, no.
  • Reply 68 of 233
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    DuhSesame said:
    It's somewhat amusing to see the Apple fans defend Apple's pricing - note I am huge fan and have all their gear. But if we can't even get ourselves to admit this stuff then well, nothing will ever change. It took a lot to get Apple to admit its mistakes with the MacBook Pro rectified with the new ones re Keyboard, Escape key, good GPU now etc.

    This new Mac Pro when specced out on the high end is not over priced - it's comparable or even lower cost compared to HP or DELL in this space.

    Where the Mac Pro IS over priced is on the low end. Given this is a "Pro" device, there is no reason for the low end machine with a 256GB SSD, Radeon 580 Pro to even EXIST! Priced at $5999. 

    There once was a time when you could get a fully loaded Quad G5 for way less. Anyway, I hope Apple releases a Mac Pro tower, perhaps with only 3 slots to justify (for them) a lower cost so that other folks can get in - folks that don't necessarily need the power but want the "hard core" performance.
    Yeah, guilt trip.  The whole world is running by...

    They don't take the platform as a whole into account and assume whatever they saw it's true.

    Sure you can find faster and cheaper lower-end products and call yourself a winner.  Even a teenager could do that math.  So?  Every socket they've added on the board, or the possibility of the processor was free all of the sudden?

    They just don't think anything further than what they could afford.  More power to them (I like cheap stuff too), but it's foolish to ask a premium tool (and not primarily
    for personal use) to be cheaper.
    In response to your last paragraph:
    This is where your argument fails - the quality of the Apple gear is no better or worse. I've had to take my AirPods, Apple Watch and two MacBook Pro (both with butterfly keyboards) back. Not to mention the countless software issues (bugs) over the last couple of years. Similar priced and specced machines sold by Dell or Microsoft have comparable quality. Fortunately my new MacBook Pro 16 hasn't had any issues these past three weeks. 
    ...

    Learn to argue.
  • Reply 69 of 233
    Actually there ar some truths to this article and alot of fanboy stuff too though... example..

    Users have balked, and cracked jokes at the $400 Apple chooses to charge for wheels, yet don't think twice -- or even consider -- the $309 Microsoft charges for the operating system on a Windows workstation. 

    We talking about some freaking wheels vs and operating system in this case. Sounds like a fa boy talk....  I am sure someone is gonna try to reverse my comment on me. And can try but you will only prove my point even further.  

     I can't help but to think that the writer missed the idea in Apple's pricing.  The trick per say. See a windows workstation has myriads of options of accessories to pair with it that can be found at many price points. But to buy a Mac you can't just pair it with any old monitor. The lower price for the desktop is about Apple knowing their reputation for overpricing is becoming a known trait. The trick here is that instead of the desktop they chose to hike the price elsewhere.  Because they know the enclosed ecosystem they built. 

    So yep... 400 for wheels and $100 for a stand. Mind you isnt the material only what... aluminum? Well it used to be expensive...... not anymore. Rather it's the cheapest metal actually.  So you spend that much for wheels that costed how much to make? I'll bet that metal guy on YouTube could recreate those wheels for much less. 

    So yeah the HP costs more but due to having a more open ecosystem where people can opt to buy accessories from somewhere else at a lower price. 

    Now there are a few aspects where things fall even price wise. 

    Apple is playing a smart game that many after reading this still won't understand... lol...    But I do think it's a smart play. 

    This though is worth the use of the word Pro. I can't say that about the iPhone though despite Apple's efforts to make the phone look Pro by pushing that word everywhere when iPhone is the subject.  Some are just too blinded to see that. There is nothing really pro about an iPhone.  It makes a smartphone easy to use for NON-PROS.

    This computer though is nice. Too much $ though for me. Performance seems cool but I haven't seen anyone really test the thing out yet. (If anyone on YouTube has test it out in a real test let me know. I wanna see that video. Last one I saw was a recording studio test which didn't even put a dent. 
    mike54
  • Reply 70 of 233
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    Actually there ar some truths to this article and alot of fanboy stuff too though... example..

    Users have balked, and cracked jokes at the $400 Apple chooses to charge for wheels, yet don't think twice -- or even consider -- the $309 Microsoft charges for the operating system on a Windows workstation. 

    We talking about some freaking wheels vs and operating system in this case. Sounds like a fa boy talk....  I am sure someone is gonna try to reverse my comment on me. And can try but you will only prove my point even further.  

     I can't help but to think that the writer missed the idea in Apple's pricing.  The trick per say. See a windows workstation has myriads of options of accessories to pair with it that can be found at many price points. But to buy a Mac you can't just pair it with any old monitor. The lower price for the desktop is about Apple knowing their reputation for overpricing is becoming a known trait. The trick here is that instead of the desktop they chose to hike the price elsewhere.  Because they know the enclosed ecosystem they built. 

    So yep... 400 for wheels and $100 for a stand. Mind you isnt the material only what... aluminum? Well it used to be expensive...... not anymore. Rather it's the cheapest metal actually.  So you spend that much for wheels that costed how much to make? I'll bet that metal guy on YouTube could recreate those wheels for much less. 

    So yeah the HP costs more but due to having a more open ecosystem where people can opt to buy accessories from somewhere else at a lower price. 

    Now there are a few aspects where things fall even price wise. 

    Apple is playing a smart game that many after reading this still won't understand... lol...    But I do think it's a smart play. 

    This though is worth the use of the word Pro. I can't say that about the iPhone though despite Apple's efforts to make the phone look Pro by pushing that word everywhere when iPhone is the subject.  Some are just too blinded to see that. There is nothing really pro about an iPhone.  It makes a smartphone easy to use for NON-PROS.

    This computer though is nice. Too much $ though for me. Performance seems cool but I haven't seen anyone really test the thing out yet. (If anyone on YouTube has test it out in a real test let me know. I wanna see that video. Last one I saw was a recording studio test which didn't even put a dent. 
    Or focus on facts and stop throwing names.  Hardly ever does.  Which is why I'm grumpy about the whole thing.
  • Reply 71 of 233
    DuhSesame said:
    DuhSesame said:
    It's somewhat amusing to see the Apple fans defend Apple's pricing - note I am huge fan and have all their gear. But if we can't even get ourselves to admit this stuff then well, nothing will ever change. It took a lot to get Apple to admit its mistakes with the MacBook Pro rectified with the new ones re Keyboard, Escape key, good GPU now etc.

    This new Mac Pro when specced out on the high end is not over priced - it's comparable or even lower cost compared to HP or DELL in this space.

    Where the Mac Pro IS over priced is on the low end. Given this is a "Pro" device, there is no reason for the low end machine with a 256GB SSD, Radeon 580 Pro to even EXIST! Priced at $5999. 

    There once was a time when you could get a fully loaded Quad G5 for way less. Anyway, I hope Apple releases a Mac Pro tower, perhaps with only 3 slots to justify (for them) a lower cost so that other folks can get in - folks that don't necessarily need the power but want the "hard core" performance.
    Yeah, guilt trip.  The whole world is running by...

    They don't take the platform as a whole into account and assume whatever they saw it's true.

    Sure you can find faster and cheaper lower-end products and call yourself a winner.  Even a teenager could do that math.  So?  Every socket they've added on the board, or the possibility of the processor was free all of the sudden?

    They just don't think anything further than what they could afford.  More power to them (I like cheap stuff too), but it's foolish to ask a premium tool (and not primarily
    for personal use) to be cheaper.
    In response to your last paragraph:
    This is where your argument fails - the quality of the Apple gear is no better or worse. I've had to take my AirPods, Apple Watch and two MacBook Pro (both with butterfly keyboards) back. Not to mention the countless software issues (bugs) over the last couple of years. Similar priced and specced machines sold by Dell or Microsoft have comparable quality. Fortunately my new MacBook Pro 16 hasn't had any issues these past three weeks. 
    ...

    Learn to argue.
    Very mature response dude.
    KITAjdwdysamoria
  • Reply 72 of 233
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    DuhSesame said:
    DuhSesame said:
    It's somewhat amusing to see the Apple fans defend Apple's pricing - note I am huge fan and have all their gear. But if we can't even get ourselves to admit this stuff then well, nothing will ever change. It took a lot to get Apple to admit its mistakes with the MacBook Pro rectified with the new ones re Keyboard, Escape key, good GPU now etc.

    This new Mac Pro when specced out on the high end is not over priced - it's comparable or even lower cost compared to HP or DELL in this space.

    Where the Mac Pro IS over priced is on the low end. Given this is a "Pro" device, there is no reason for the low end machine with a 256GB SSD, Radeon 580 Pro to even EXIST! Priced at $5999. 

    There once was a time when you could get a fully loaded Quad G5 for way less. Anyway, I hope Apple releases a Mac Pro tower, perhaps with only 3 slots to justify (for them) a lower cost so that other folks can get in - folks that don't necessarily need the power but want the "hard core" performance.
    Yeah, guilt trip.  The whole world is running by...

    They don't take the platform as a whole into account and assume whatever they saw it's true.

    Sure you can find faster and cheaper lower-end products and call yourself a winner.  Even a teenager could do that math.  So?  Every socket they've added on the board, or the possibility of the processor was free all of the sudden?

    They just don't think anything further than what they could afford.  More power to them (I like cheap stuff too), but it's foolish to ask a premium tool (and not primarily
    for personal use) to be cheaper.
    In response to your last paragraph:
    This is where your argument fails - the quality of the Apple gear is no better or worse. I've had to take my AirPods, Apple Watch and two MacBook Pro (both with butterfly keyboards) back. Not to mention the countless software issues (bugs) over the last couple of years. Similar priced and specced machines sold by Dell or Microsoft have comparable quality. Fortunately my new MacBook Pro 16 hasn't had any issues these past three weeks. 
    ...

    Learn to argue.
    Very mature response dude.
    Right.
  • Reply 73 of 233
    thttht Posts: 5,606member
    KITA said:
    Just a quick comparison on the low end of things:

    Lenovo ThinkStation P520: ~$4000
    • Intel Xeon W-2145 (8 cores)
    • 32 GB ECC DDR4-2666
    • NVIDIA RTX Quadro 4000 8 GB
    • 512 GB M2 PCIe SSD
    • Thunderbolt 3
    • 5G Ethernet
    • 900W
    • 5 years on-site next business day warranty
    • ISV certified for a wide range of software
    The same machine via EPP is around 25% less (~$3000), which is similar to what a company might pay when purchasing.
    That’s just an iMac Pro system, except it comes with a $1000 monitor in a small footprint, and this Lenovo ends up about the same price with a comparable monitor.
    pscooter63fastasleep
  • Reply 74 of 233
    KITAKITA Posts: 409member
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:
    DuhSesame said:
    KITA said:

    Apple's Mac Pro versus Windows workstation prices

    Workstations have always been expensive. The Mac Pro is no exception to that rule, and Windows workstations are priced similarly to the Mac Pro.

    First of all, those machines come with 3 years of on-site warranty (and for a hundred or so more, that can be bumped to 5 years of on-site next business day).

    Second, no company ever pays the website price. It's typically lower (15% to 30%), even for a single unit purchase.

    Hey!

    I haven't seen you in a while.

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Surface-Laptop-3-15-Ryzen-5-Review-Microsoft-Can-Do-Better.440183.0.html#toc-performance-one-of-the-better-ryzen-u-laptops

    I'm still remembering this, three times the power!
    That's Ryzen, and it's awful, not exactly Ice Lake.
    Oh, yeah.  Those 15" sucks, their 13" sibling should be much better!

    right?



    meh, giving the score I've lost my faith.
    Head to head their Ice Lake implementation is better than Ryzen:


    So?

    Are they 3x faster than the MacBook Air?

    https://www.cnet.com/reviews/microsoft-surface-laptop-3-13-5-inch-review/

    Yeah, no.
    ~2.5 in CPU and >3 in GPU. That's all Microsoft needed to make that claim.

    Despite all of this, on the market today, the MacBook Air is still around the same price as the Surface Laptop 3.

    Surface Laptop 3 - $1799
    • i7-1065G7 (4 cores / 8 threads)
    • Iris Plus G7
    • 16 GB LPDDR4
    • 512 GB PCIe SSD
    • 2.8 lbs
    MacBook Air - $1699
    • i5-8210Y (2 cores / 4 threads)
    • UHD 617
    • 16 GB LPDDR3
    • 512 GB PCIe SSD
    • 2.7 lbs
    And then, of course, to throw in a little more competition at Apple and Microsoft...

    Razer Blade Stealth - $1799
    • i7-1065G7 (4 cores / 8 threads)
    • GTX 1650 Max-Q 4 GB
    • 16 GB LPDDR4
    • 512 GB PCIe SSD
    • 3.1 lbs

  • Reply 75 of 233
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    The following $2905 workstation is equivalent to the $5999 Mac Pro both in terms of performance and in terms of using all workstation-class components:

    $460 - Supermicro MBD-X11SPI-TF-O motherboard
    $749 - Xeon W-3223
    $100 - Noctua NH-U12S DX-3647 CPU cooler
    $200 - 32 GB DDR4 2666 ECC RAM
    $525 - AMD Radeon Pro WX 7100 8GB
    $280 - Dune Pro case with a cheese grater
    $160 - Samsung 970 Pro NVMe SSD 512GB
    $231 - Seasonic Prime Ultra 850W 80+ Titanium PSU
    $200 - Windows 10 Pro
    --------------------
    $2,905

    That is not "just a $400 i9 processor jammed in a machine with a plain-as-day Northbridge, a few PCI-E slots, and a couple of I/O options". It is a bona fide workstation, with the same CPU, server-grade ECC RAM, workstation GPU that slightly outdoes the one in the Mac, etc.

    Granted, the article said that build-your-own rigs could come in less expensive, but the authors seemed to imply that such builds would not really be comparable to a Mac Pro because they are made from consumer-grade parts. In any case, there's the equivalent+ custom workstation.
    The component hardware quality may be the same -- no such implication was made that it wouldn't be. But, from a support standpoint, it isn't equivalent. From a labor of assembly standpoint, it isn't. Way fewer PCI-E and one whole X16 slot on yours. Four fewer RAM slots on yours. Zero Thunderbolt 3 on yours as far as I can tell. Louder. Weaker power supply. You do get more SATA slots, and more USB-A. And, like we said in the article, add more money for Windows for Workstations.

    You want to do this? Go nuts. It's probably perfect for what you want to do. But, it isn't equivalent to the Mac Pro in every measure, and falls very short on several key metrics, like most comparisons with part pickers.

    Dear AI

     Please add a single button to the editor toolbar which will paste in this response to any half-wit who posts a spec comparison that doesn’t even match.

    If the button can support an animated gif, then I’ve found one of RuPaul summarising Mike’s excellent and measured response more succinctly.  


    edited December 2019
  • Reply 76 of 233
    KITAKITA Posts: 409member
    tht said:
    KITA said:
    Just a quick comparison on the low end of things:

    Lenovo ThinkStation P520: ~$4000
    • Intel Xeon W-2145 (8 cores)
    • 32 GB ECC DDR4-2666
    • NVIDIA RTX Quadro 4000 8 GB
    • 512 GB M2 PCIe SSD
    • Thunderbolt 3
    • 5G Ethernet
    • 900W
    • 5 years on-site next business day warranty
    • ISV certified for a wide range of software
    The same machine via EPP is around 25% less (~$3000), which is similar to what a company might pay when purchasing.
    That’s just an iMac Pro system, except it comes with a $1000 monitor in a small footprint, and this Lenovo ends up about the same price with a comparable monitor.
    ISV certification, 5 years on-site next business day warranty, components that can be upgraded, no major thermal constraint, superior NVIDIA graphics options and a ~$3000 cost for businesses (not the $4000 shown online). You also aren't forced to buy a built in monitor.
    dysamoriamuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 77 of 233
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    lkrupp said:
    There is absolutely no need to explain the price of the Mac Pro to anyone. The market it was built for knows full well the value of the machine. As usual the tech media is hell bent on spinning this as another example of Apple’s “overpriced” hardware. There’s already a video on YouTube by some complete dimwit claiming the Hackintosh he built outperforms the Mac Pro for a quarter of the price. Stupid is as stupid does. The complaints here in AI are from sub-Pro hobbyists and so-called Prosumers who thought they would get a tower with slots starting at $1999.00.
    The machine is overpriced there is little doubt there.  

    As for out performing the new Mac Pro, you need to look at the results AMDs Thread Ripper is delivering.  We are taking 2X performance deltas over some of Intel’s chips.    The fact is nobody concerned about performance will be buying a Mac Pro.  
    williamlondon
  • Reply 78 of 233
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Nice try, but it won’t work. Every article I’ve seen leads off with the price, usually highlighting the wheels, monitor or the monitor stand. The only things that might shut up those laughing will be if it sells well even at its price point and reviews and user testimonies are positive. 

    And that won’t shut up a dedicated core of people who just seem to like complaining. 
    Anyone buying the wheels deserves to be laughed at!!!!    
    williamlondon
  • Reply 79 of 233
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    jmulchino said:

    lkrupp said:
    There is absolutely no need to explain the price of the Mac Pro to anyone. The market it was built for knows full well the value of the machine. As usual the tech media is hell bent on spinning this as another example of Apple’s “overpriced” hardware. There’s already a video on YouTube by some complete dimwit claiming the Hackintosh he built outperforms the Mac Pro for a quarter of the price. Stupid is as stupid does. The complaints here in AI are from sub-Pro hobbyists and so-called Prosumers who thought they would get a tower with slots starting at $1999.00.
    I feel like your third sentence explains why we did this piece.
    With all due respect, I disagree. AI has presented the new Mac Pro, however in nuanced terms, as an article for consumers and not a workstation for professionals. Two examples: AI posted an article about where to get and how to install third party RAM on the Mac Pro to avoid paying Apple for outrageous RAM prices. Why would a pro do that? As a consumer I would easily consider that. But not a pro working for an agency. And two. You are quick to rationalize for Apple re: the $500 wheels by listing Windows operating system as a similar $500 add on. You know that’s not the same thing. 
    My point being is that by diving into the nuts and bolts of the new Mac Pro you are treating it like a consumer product when I would guess 99% of your readers will not purchase it. You reap what you sew. 
    ... what? That is not a rational take based on what we've said and continue to say about the machine.

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/06/04/editorial-the-new-mac-pro-is-overkill-for-nearly-everybody-and-it-hit-apples-own-target

    A solo professional, or small video studio will buy the Mac Pro, and install their own RAM. Pixar, Disney, and the like will not. Neither are consumers, and both are who the Mac Pro is aimed at.

    I agree that looked at as objects, the wheels and the cost of Windows aren't the same thing. However, looked at as an argument why the Mac Pro is expensive because this optional thing is $400 and a Windows Workstation is cheap if you don't include the cost of the required Windows install is the point of the exercise.
    Everything about the new Pro is grossly over priced.  There is really no defense for $400 wheels.  
    dysamoriawilliamlondonmike54
  • Reply 80 of 233
    thttht Posts: 5,606member
    KITA said:
    tht said:
    KITA said:
    Just a quick comparison on the low end of things:

    Lenovo ThinkStation P520: ~$4000
    • Intel Xeon W-2145 (8 cores)
    • 32 GB ECC DDR4-2666
    • NVIDIA RTX Quadro 4000 8 GB
    • 512 GB M2 PCIe SSD
    • Thunderbolt 3
    • 5G Ethernet
    • 900W
    • 5 years on-site next business day warranty
    • ISV certified for a wide range of software
    The same machine via EPP is around 25% less (~$3000), which is similar to what a company might pay when purchasing.
    That’s just an iMac Pro system, except it comes with a $1000 monitor in a small footprint, and this Lenovo ends up about the same price with a comparable monitor.
    ISV certification, 5 years on-site next business day warranty, components that can be upgraded, no major thermal constraint, superior NVIDIA graphics options and a ~$3000 cost for businesses (not the $4000 shown online). You also aren't forced to buy a built in monitor.
    I priced out MSRP $5900, and with the holiday coupon, it went down to $4700, for iMac Pro like components.
    • Processor : Intel Xeon W-2145 Processor with vPro (8 cores, 3.70GHz, 11MB Cache)
    • Operating System : Windows 10 Pro for Workstations 64
    • Operating System Language : Windows 10 Pro for Workstations 64 English
    • Motherboard : P520 MB Intel Basin Falls
    • Memory : Quantity 4 x 8GB DDR4 2666MHz ECC RDIMM
    • Memory Qty : 4
    • First Video Adapter : NVIDIA Quadro P4000 8GB (4xDP) High Profile
    • Hard Drive Controller : Intel Integrated Controller
    • First Onboard M.2 Selection : 1024GB Solid State Drive, M.2, PCIe, Opal, TLC
    • Primary HDD Boot Drive : Yes
    • First Hard Drive Selection : 1TB Hard Drive, 7200RPM, 3.5", SATA3
    • First Hard Drive Selection Qty : 1
    • Memory Card Reader : Integrated 9 in 1 Multimedia Card Reader
    • Ethernet Adapter : Aquantia PCIE 5G Full Height
    • WiFi Wireless LAN Adapter : Intel Dual Band 8265 AC (2 x 2) + Bluetooth 4.1 with vPro
    • Thunderbolt I/O : REAR THUNDERBOLT CARD 1 PORT
    • Audio Card : Integrated Audio
    • Keyboard : USB Traditional Keyboard Black English
    • Pointing Device : USB Mouse Black
    • Power Cord : LineCord - US
    • Power Supply : Tower 92% Power 690W
    • Language Pack : Publication-English
    • Warranty : 3 Year On-site
    It also said the warranty cost money, which I didn’t select, but appeared in the details anyways. I couldn’t deselect the 1 TB HDD, but it only has one TB port, so maybe an even trade. 

    Yes, it comes in a box with internal expansion. I prefer that, but the Lenovo ID. Apple is aiming for the part of the market who prefer its industrial design, with a more compact form. Price-wise, this doesn’t seem much different, unless I did something wrong with configuration. 
    fastasleep
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