This is the most overblown BS I have seen in my lifetime. Pure hype. The entirety of the American media should be dissolved for creating this panic.
Corona killed what, less than 100 Americans? Swine Flu killed 23,000 Americans, nothing. Measles? Nothing. H1N1? Nothing. EBOLA? Not a damned thing.
One basketball player gets a cold and the whole country loses its f#$(%(& mind.
Glad I have cash on hand because the market is having the sale of the century, and all its going to cost is the economy, and thousands of jobs.
Shame on all of you lemmings who are playing along.
It’s not about how many people have died so far. It’s about the mortality rate and how easily and fast this virus spreads. If we allow half of the population to be infected this year, there will be millions of Americans dead from this virus by the end of 2020.
The mortality rate is not well understood. Many will, or already have, contracted the virus with little in the way of symptoms. This makes the mortality rate appear much higher than it actually is because, for the most part, it is only those who fall very ill that get tested.
The official number is that the US may have 1.7 million dead. By my own estimates as of 2 weeks ago, we may have 15 million dead before the vaccine is available. Either way, it’s a huge number.
Would love to hear how you come upon these estimates.
Keep in mind many of these figures are in the very early stages when countries didn't do anything to stop the spread. I can't fathom either the "official" estimates or your own estimates. With awareness, the serious/fatal cases will definitely be lower.
"Public health efforts depend heavily on predicting how diseases such as that caused by the 2019 novel coronavirus, now named COVID-19 by the World Health Organization, spread across the globe. During the early days of a new outbreak, when reliable data are still scarce, researchers turn to mathematical models that can predict where people who could be infected are going and how likely they are to bring the disease with them. These computational methods use known statistical equations that calculate the probability of individuals transmitting the illness."
I'm also curious how Cook came up with this March 27th re-open date. Hard to fathom how a mere 13 days is sufficient; even Disney theme parks are closed until the beginning of April. Perhaps Cook has calculated the amount of time that the general public will become inoculated to the panic/hysteria.
There are lots of reasons why different organizations choose their closure dates. Some are probably due to a concern for employees and/or consumers, but most are probably weighing the costs of staying open with the public opinion of that action, the liability cost if an outbreak is linked to one their store (especially on the rare event of a death occurring), and the over/under as sales will surely be dropping now that the market has dropped substantially.
From the time they made the decision it's 2 weeks, and they are opening back up on a Friday, which is probably a fairly busy day for them as well as a weekday, as opposed to opening back up on a Saturday. Maybe internally they can see how things are going on Friday the 27th and then make a decision on that day when executives and 3rd-party experts will be most available. They also have plenty of time to see how the SARS-CoV-2 response in the US is going before they choose to stay closed for extended weeks or open back up again. They're going to play it safe because they will not be hurt in the long run.
This is the most overblown BS I have seen in my lifetime. Pure hype. The entirety of the American media should be dissolved for creating this panic.
Corona killed what, less than 100 Americans? Swine Flu killed 23,000 Americans, nothing. Measles? Nothing. H1N1? Nothing. EBOLA? Not a damned thing.
One basketball player gets a cold and the whole country loses its f#$(%(& mind.
Glad I have cash on hand because the market is having the sale of the century, and all its going to cost is the economy, and thousands of jobs.
Shame on all of you lemmings who are playing along.
Measles rarely kills on its own, but it completely resets the immune system’s memory of all past responses, and so many who contract it end up dead from cancer or other maladies. And so it’s nothing to play around with. It would have been eradicated if not for the ignorant anti-vaxxers. Please don’t tell us you’re one of those.
Covid-19 has killed less than 100 Americans because it’s still in very early stages in America. A tepid initial response has allowed internal transmission and that marks the true beginning of an outbreak in any country. See South Korea, Iran and especially Italy. There were 11k new cases worldwide today, illustrating this virus’ capacity to spread quite easily. Italy’s death toll stands at 14%. A fast spreading contagion with the potential to kill 14% in a population that skews older (Italy’s median population is 45.1 years; one of the oldest) is nothing to ignore.
US median age is 37.7 years, so it’s a country in a better position relative to Italy. Maybe. Here in the Philippines where I’m currently living a semi-retired life as an American expat, the median age is around 24 years. That can be good and bad. It’s good that most will experience only mild symptoms, but bad because they may therefore not report and spread the disease to others, eventually to the elderly in their families and communities and to the expat population, which skews older. A similar phenomenon may occur among the younger generation in every country, allowing the disease to hide while spreading.
We are not lemmings to take this seriously, we are prudent. You should do your research and apply some critical thinking.
Wish you were here in the US to see the panic buying. Bottled water is flying off the shelves. Why? Is normal tap water contaminated now? Grocery store shelves are empty. And the big question in my mind is what happens if/when the US is "recovered"? It takes just one person flying in from somewhere in the world (keep in mind it'll be winter in the southern hemisphere soon and may make the spread there worse), to start the spread all over again. Do we lock out everyone from coming to the US for a year?
China's actions are working because no one is going there. Seems it would take the same for the US to recover. What is the long term solution?
At some point, herd immunity will happen. Then of course, you can look forward to mutations, same as the seasonal flu.
Herd immunity is a man made thing thanks to vaccinations and is easily broken absent the vaccinations. As seen when morons don't vaccinate and the virus gets a foothold again and mutates to a new strain the previous immunity can't help with. I am not sure how without vaccinations you attain herd immunity, the common cold is a virus and humans have probably had for since the rise of the species and we are not doing too well at any form of auto-immunity with that virus. Viruses are very primitive and mutate a lot as they have no DNA error checking. I half expect the large gathering of clueless students now descending on Florida for Spring break to congregate en masse and propagate a new mutation the kills young people who thus far have escaped lightly.
Yeah, you're right. It isn't going to happen without vaccination, but the UK thinks that "cocooning" those aged and those with poor health and letting the virus run its course is a winning strategy, failing to consider that a fair number of the young will also die, which really ticks off the voters.
The other thing to remember when we think about trying to lower demand on the healthcare system, is that places like hospitals, are normally at 90-100% capacity all the time. We have very little space for outbreaks of any kind. It is a major flaw in the system.
It doesn’t take a super deadly plague to put us in a position where doctors would be literally choosing who to save and who to let die.
H1N1 in 2009 was much worse. Look it up if you've forgotten. It was 11 years ago, so most people don't bother to remember past events to understand the present. Apple didn't close any stores then, and they shouldn't have to now. About 1000 people had died in the US before Obama declared an emergency, and no one in the media or in the Republican Party criticized him for it. Trump shuts down flights from China in January, and then puts in motion a lot of other measures, and they can't stop complaining and politicizing. This. Will. Blow. Over. It's not that big of a deal. It's smart to take precautions, but this isn't any worse than a bad flu outbreak. And that brings me to another point. The flu infects and kills more people every year than corona virus has or likely will. Why don't we call flu a pandemic? Why don't we shut down flights and close Apple stores when the flu season starts? Some will disagree with me on this, but flame away all you want. I'm right. It's annoying how people forget what happened before. I didn't stop going to shopping malls, flying, or anything else after 9/11, and I will not allow this to make me live my life any different. I always practice good hygiene. When I'm at the gym I use hand sanitizer a lot. I just practice common sense.
you probably can get a good deal on a cruise now. Bon Voyage
Just 5 years ago I was a competitive cyclist and got a mild bronchitis. I just maintained my training regime with the ill-informed logic that I would blow it out of my lungs. Anyhow got to the point after a week where I felt physically ill during rides so went to my GP. He sent me for chest X-rays and I was told I had double-pneumonia with about 15% of each lung knocked out. The GP said that another week and I would have ended up in hospital with no guaranteed positive outcome.
If you contact COVID-19 (1 in 4 will) and are unlucky enough to end up with pneumonia and the hospitals in your area are overwhelmed then ... Hence the draconian measures around the world to try to flatten the infection curve.
Just 5 years ago I was a competitive cyclist and got a mild bronchitis. I just maintained my training regime with the ill-informed logic that I would blow it out of my lungs. Anyhow got to the point after a week where I felt physically ill during rides so went to my GP. He sent me for chest X-rays and I was told I had double-pneumonia with about 15% of each lung knocked out. The GP said that another week and I would have ended up in hospital with no guaranteed positive outcome.
If you contact COVID-19 (1 in 4 will) and are unlucky enough to end up with pneumonia and the hospitals in your area are overwhelmed then ... Hence the draconian measures around the world to try to flatten the infection curve.
I just read an article about three individuals in China that survived but losing 25% to 30 % of their lung capacity.
H1N1 in 2009 was much worse. Look it up if you've forgotten. It was 11 years ago, so most people don't bother to remember past events to understand the present. Apple didn't close any stores then, and they shouldn't have to now. About 1000 people had died in the US before Obama declared an emergency, and no one in the media or in the Republican Party criticized him for it. Trump shuts down flights from China in January, and then puts in motion a lot of other measures, and they can't stop complaining and politicizing. This. Will. Blow. Over. It's not that big of a deal. It's smart to take precautions, but this isn't any worse than a bad flu outbreak. And that brings me to another point. The flu infects and kills more people every year than corona virus has or likely will. Why don't we call flu a pandemic? Why don't we shut down flights and close Apple stores when the flu season starts? Some will disagree with me on this, but flame away all you want. I'm right. It's annoying how people forget what happened before. I didn't stop going to shopping malls, flying, or anything else after 9/11, and I will not allow this to make me live my life any different. I always practice good hygiene. When I'm at the gym I use hand sanitizer a lot. I just practice common sense.
You need to pull your head out of the jar of dumb you’ve been soaking in. This is just starting. People don’t need to panic but the dismissive attitude is actually deadly.
The Apple Store at the mall near me is closed. They had a few Apple employees standing outside and from what I overheard passing by is they are telling customers how to get service/support.
Samsung store is still open. So is the Microsoft store. Even the Xbox play area out front was open with a few kids playing a game (I hope they’re wiping the controllers/chairs down when someone new comes to play). To their credit they did have those “rope” barriers around it, presumably to control access so random people aren't touching things.
This is the most overblown BS I have seen in my lifetime. Pure hype. The entirety of the American media should be dissolved for creating this panic.
Corona killed what, less t I han 100 Americans? Swine Flu killed 23,000 Americans, nothing. Measles? Nothing. H1N1? Nothing. EBOLA? Not a damned thing.
One basketball player gets a cold and the whole country loses its f#$(%(& mind.
Glad I have cash on hand because the market is having the sale of the century, and all its going to cost is the economy, and thousands of jobs.
Shame on all of you lemmings who are playing along.
The president declared it a National Emergency because is extremely serious. You must be young and in shape to be so dismissive of this.
Well I’m not young and, having seen previous outbreaks in past decades, I’m flabbergasted at why this is being handled so very differently.
I’m cognizant that this is serious and needs to be dealt with. But government and businesses alike, instead of using a surgical knife are instead - and rather lazily - lopping off the arms and legs of the economy. Whole industries - large sectors of the economy - are being crushed by the massive closures. Many on this forum do much of their work via computer, which is nice for us. We can work from home - no problem. It ain’t so rosy for those whose jobs require them to be physically present.
While I’m not suggesting we do everything China did, we could have taken a cue from some of their actions, such as temperature screenings at places of work, public events and public buildings. We could have set up temporary clinics to send people to be monitored. Yes, that would be inconvenient for those wanting to get into a basketball game or hop on a plane. But it’s a hell of a lot more convenient than losing your job, which many millions are about to do - UNNECESSARILY.
This is a PUBLIC POLICY DISASTER. I hope we learn from it because all of us, one way or another, are about to pay a heavy price.
You are so wrong. Italy is at the brink of collapse right now. Doctors have to decide whom to intubate and whom not to because they don’t have enough machines. They are having to play god and decide who lives and who dies. This is because the curve of those infected grows exponentially and overwhelms the healthcare system. Italian doctors are saying they have never seen anything like this. It’s all hands on deck now. Orthopedic and other surgeons are working as ER doctors after a short training because there are not enough ER doctors to handle the volume of people needing hospitalization. Doctors don’t have breaks or days off. They are exhausted and stressed from seeing so many people dying because they can’t do anything to help them.
The reason this is happening in Italy is that they treated the impending epidemic ever so nonchalantly in the beginning. Exactly like you are suggesting we treat it. We are only 12 days behind Italy. This calamity is about to hit us hard like we have never experienced. You will see dead bodies. You know people personally who will die from the virus. Our government completely dropped the ball. By the time they figured out that it was not just another flu, it was already too late. We have hundreds of thousands of undiagnosed cases already, and those infected are spreading it to dozens of people each. It takes 10-14 days for the symptoms to show up. We are about to see our health system collapse in front of our eyes.
Seattle is the worst spot in the US right now and it’s going to be worse than Wuhan. If you want to know the truth, read this:
This is the most overblown BS I have seen in my lifetime. Pure hype. The entirety of the American media should be dissolved for creating this panic.
Corona killed what, less t I han 100 Americans? Swine Flu killed 23,000 Americans, nothing. Measles? Nothing. H1N1? Nothing. EBOLA? Not a damned thing.
One basketball player gets a cold and the whole country loses its f#$(%(& mind.
Glad I have cash on hand because the market is having the sale of the century, and all its going to cost is the economy, and thousands of jobs.
Shame on all of you lemmings who are playing along.
The president declared it a National Emergency because is extremely serious. You must be young and in shape to be so dismissive of this.
Well I’m not young and, having seen previous outbreaks in past decades, I’m flabbergasted at why this is being handled so very differently.
I’m cognizant that this is serious and needs to be dealt with. But government and businesses alike, instead of using a surgical knife are instead - and rather lazily - lopping off the arms and legs of the economy. Whole industries - large sectors of the economy - are being crushed by the massive closures. Many on this forum do much of their work via computer, which is nice for us. We can work from home - no problem. It ain’t so rosy for those whose jobs require them to be physically present.
While I’m not suggesting we do everything China did, we could have taken a cue from some of their actions, such as temperature screenings at places of work, public events and public buildings. We could have set up temporary clinics to send people to be monitored. Yes, that would be inconvenient for those wanting to get into a basketball game or hop on a plane. But it’s a hell of a lot more convenient than losing your job, which many millions are about to do - UNNECESSARILY.
This is a PUBLIC POLICY DISASTER. I hope we learn from it because all of us, one way or another, are about to pay a heavy price.
You are so wrong. Italy is at the brink of collapse right now. Doctors have to decide whom to intubate and whom not to because they don’t have enough machines. They are having to play god and decide who lives and who dies. This is because the curve of those infected grows exponentially and overwhelms the healthcare system. Italian doctors are saying they have never seen anything like this. It’s all hands on deck now. Orthopedic and other surgeons are working as ER doctors after a short training because there are not enough ER doctors to handle the volume of people needing hospitalization. Doctors don’t have breaks or days off. They are exhausted and stressed from seeing so many people dying because they can’t do anything to help them.
The reason this is happening in Italy is that they treated the impending epidemic ever so nonchalantly in the beginning. Exactly like you are suggesting we treat it. We are only 12 days behind Italy. This calamity is about to hit us hard like we have never experienced. You will see dead bodies. You know people personally who will die from the virus. Our government completely dropped the ball. By the time they figured out that it was not just another flu, it was already too late. We have hundreds of thousands of undiagnosed cases already, and those infected are spreading it to dozens of people each. It takes 10-14 days for the symptoms to show up. We are about to see our health system collapse in front of our eyes.
Seattle is the worst spot in the US right now and it’s going to be worse than Wuhan. If you want to know the truth, read this:
I am so wrong. Eh, maybe, maybe not. But you chose to argue some points that I didn’t actually make. Not sure why.
BTW: Worldwide corona deaths to worldwide flu deaths: 4718/3 months= 1573.6 month worldwide. vs flu which has 646,000 deaths worldwide/12 months in a yr = 53,833 per month.
My advice: step away from the panic screen, or it will consume you.
Georgia had 2 cases less than a weak ago. Today there are 66 diagnosed cases. It’s a 33-fold increase in less than a week. Read this these are young adults. The woman is about to die. The man is on oxygen 24 hours a day. All they did was to attend church last Sunday. The virus infected sixty people within an hour at the church.
The naysayers who compare this crap to the flu are very much deluded. This virus is very nasty, and while 80% recover, some patients have gotten reinfected and some have lung and organ damage that may or may not be permanent.
While there are others who are selfish and think that they can’t get it, so they act like all of these closures are a big inconvenience and a detriment to our economy, they forget that we are all human and connected somehow.
I just don’t see how risking peoples lives is more important than pausing our day to day routines and get a handle on who is sick and how we can help each other get thru this.
The Apple store is closed for 2 weeks. Life will go on. Take care of your family and friends. Be considerate and compassionate or ignore everything and prove Darwinism is real.
Its the correct response in SOME countries due to the stage and spread of the virus. But it's completely wrong for other counties where it could make things worse as it effectively starts a lockdown process before its needed. Doing so too early reduces the effictiveness when it is required. So here in the UK because the early phase was handled better than in Italy, the Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Officers have recommended against this kind of thing at this moment. It may be necessary in the UK in 10 to 14 weeks when the peak is expected.
Ignoring the medical science and following the panic on social media is a virtue signalling response.
Once the virus is outside of containment, then the result is mitigation. Uk will end up like Italy if it doesn't take maximum measures early.
Good luck on that. UK expected to go into mitigation in 10-14 days. The problem is that your medical services will be maxed out much sooner than 10 weeks, then deaths start climbing.
That you refer to a rag like the so-called Independent illustrates your lack of critical judgement.
If you ask any Italian, they'll tell you the reason why things are so bad there is because of the panicked lockdown policy. The plan to lockdown the Northern provinces leaked, as these things always do. As a result lots of people I'm the Northern provinces fled to the South of Italy and Sardinia. As a result they quickly spread an outbreak just in the North to the whole of Italy!!!
If you want to educate yourself properly on the different stages of the UKs strategy, then watch the briefing after the last Cobra meeting by the Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Officer. Though I strongly suspect you're not interested in facts, just any excuse to critique a government you didn't vote for.
Its the correct response in SOME countries due to the stage and spread of the virus. But it's completely wrong for other counties where it could make things worse as it effectively starts a lockdown process before its needed. Doing so too early reduces the effictiveness when it is required. So here in the UK because the early phase was handled better than in Italy, the Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Officers have recommended against this kind of thing at this moment. It may be necessary in the UK in 10 to 14 weeks when the peak is expected.
Ignoring the medical science and following the panic on social media is a virtue signalling response.
Once the virus is outside of containment, then the result is mitigation. Uk will end up like Italy if it doesn't take maximum measures early.
Good luck on that. UK expected to go into mitigation in 10-14 days. The problem is that your medical services will be maxed out much sooner than 10 weeks, then deaths start climbing.
That you refer to a rag like the so-called Independent illustrates your lack of critical judgement.
If you ask any Italian, they'll tell you the reason why things are so bad there is because of the panicked lockdown policy. The plan to lockdown the Northern provinces leaked, as these things always do. As a result lots of people I'm the Northern provinces fled to the South of Italy and Sardinia. As a result they quickly spread an outbreak just in the North to the whole of Italy!!!
If you want to educate yourself properly on the different stages of the UKs strategy, then watch the briefing after the last Cobra meeting by the Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Officer. Though I strongly suspect you're not interested in facts, just any excuse to critique a government you didn't vote for.
Like I said, 10 to 14 days, not 10 to 14 weeks.
The Italians are panicked because the government sat on its hands, and now the medical system is overwhelmed.
As for my lack of critical judgement, I'll go by what other countries around the world that are having success are doing.
They are all attempting to "flatten the curve", and from what you are stating, the UK isn't going to do that. Good luck on that.
In one day, GA count of proved Coronavirus cases jumped from 66 to 99 - a 50% increase in 24 hours. Those of you with math skills can see for yourselves that this thing is snowballing like we have never seen before. In reality, there are already tens of thousands of infected in GA, and millions infected in the US.
This is the most overblown BS I have seen in my lifetime. Pure hype. The entirety of the American media should be dissolved for creating this panic.
Corona killed what, less than 100 Americans? Swine Flu killed 23,000 Americans, nothing. Measles? Nothing. H1N1? Nothing. EBOLA? Not a damned thing.
One basketball player gets a cold and the whole country loses its f#$(%(& mind.
Glad I have cash on hand because the market is having the sale of the century, and all its going to cost is the economy, and thousands of jobs.
Shame on all of you lemmings who are playing along.
Oh look, another freshly-minted infectious diseases expert. Not.
The nation’s and the world’s actual experts disagree, and feel we need these social actions in order to flatten the curve and stop (or prevent, here) overrunning the hospitals. See Italy; overrun.
For the healthy this isn’t as important as it is to the old and sick, where the fatality rate is higher.
Comments
Here's an explanation:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/heres-how-computer-models-simulate-the-future-spread-of-new-coronavirus/
"Public health efforts depend heavily on predicting how diseases such as that caused by the 2019 novel coronavirus, now named COVID-19 by the World Health Organization, spread across the globe. During the early days of a new outbreak, when reliable data are still scarce, researchers turn to mathematical models that can predict where people who could be infected are going and how likely they are to bring the disease with them. These computational methods use known statistical equations that calculate the probability of individuals transmitting the illness."
From the time they made the decision it's 2 weeks, and they are opening back up on a Friday, which is probably a fairly busy day for them as well as a weekday, as opposed to opening back up on a Saturday. Maybe internally they can see how things are going on Friday the 27th and then make a decision on that day when executives and 3rd-party experts will be most available. They also have plenty of time to see how the SARS-CoV-2 response in the US is going before they choose to stay closed for extended weeks or open back up again. They're going to play it safe because they will not be hurt in the long run.
Great way to increase housing availability!
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/3/14/1927401/-Rushing-to-Herd-immunity-on-coronavirus-is-an-extraordinarily-foolish-suggestion-with-no-upside?utm_campaign=recent
The author of this has been blogging on dailykos since January 31, now everyday and sometimes more than that.
What’s your risk of dying of COVID-19 - or inadvertently allowing the death of someone in your community?
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/whats-your-risk-dying-covid-19-inadvertently-death-someone-scott/Just 5 years ago I was a competitive cyclist and got a mild bronchitis. I just maintained my training regime with the ill-informed logic that I would blow it out of my lungs. Anyhow got to the point after a week where I felt physically ill during rides so went to my GP. He sent me for chest X-rays and I was told I had double-pneumonia with about 15% of each lung knocked out. The GP said that another week and I would have ended up in hospital with no guaranteed positive outcome.
If you contact COVID-19 (1 in 4 will) and are unlucky enough to end up with pneumonia and the hospitals in your area are overwhelmed then ...
Hence the draconian measures around the world to try to flatten the infection curve.
Samsung store is still open. So is the Microsoft store. Even the Xbox play area out front was open with a few kids playing a game (I hope they’re wiping the controllers/chairs down when someone new comes to play). To their credit they did have those “rope” barriers around it, presumably to control access so random people aren't touching things.
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
The naysayers who compare this crap to the flu are very much deluded. This virus is very nasty, and while 80% recover, some patients have gotten reinfected and some have lung and organ damage that may or may not be permanent.
If you ask any Italian, they'll tell you the reason why things are so bad there is because of the panicked lockdown policy. The plan to lockdown the Northern provinces leaked, as these things always do. As a result lots of people I'm the Northern provinces fled to the South of Italy and Sardinia. As a result they quickly spread an outbreak just in the North to the whole of Italy!!!
If you want to educate yourself properly on the different stages of the UKs strategy, then watch the briefing after the last Cobra meeting by the Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Officer. Though I strongly suspect you're not interested in facts, just any excuse to critique a government you didn't vote for.
The Italians are panicked because the government sat on its hands, and now the medical system is overwhelmed.
As for my lack of critical judgement, I'll go by what other countries around the world that are having success are doing.
They are all attempting to "flatten the curve", and from what you are stating, the UK isn't going to do that. Good luck on that.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/16-03-2020/the-world-is-on-fire-my-message-to-new-zealanders-on-covid-19/
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-new-zealand-brings-in-worlds-toughest-border-restrictions-to-fight-outbreak-11957379
I'm a U.S. citizen, and New Zealand, and Israel, have been doing travel restrictions correctly, requiring a 14 day self quarantine.
They will be very strictly enforced below this post.
The nation’s and the world’s actual experts disagree, and feel we need these social actions in order to flatten the curve and stop (or prevent, here) overrunning the hospitals. See Italy; overrun.
For the healthy this isn’t as important as it is to the old and sick, where the fatality rate is higher.