'iPhone 12' event Sept. 8 with 'Apple Glass' & Apple Silicon Mac reveal on Oct. 27, says l...

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 42
    fred1fred1 Posts: 1,112member
    Damn that is one good looking phone.

    $$ at the ready...
    With all due respect, I disagree. I liked the straight sides when the 5 first came out - I’m not a big fan of curved sides in phones, or cars - but I find the curved side models much easier to pick up off a table. 
  • Reply 22 of 42
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,360member
    I hope the phone looks like the above. That's a great looking phone. I'll take the baby phone if it's only slightly bigger than the original SE, as rumored.

    I've never, ever like the feel of the rounded edged phones, well after 5s, when they started getting 'skinny'. They just never felt good in the hand. I welcome the slab side design especially if it has Touch ID. I do miss the polished chamfered edges though.

    Apple Cared at the ready.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 42
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,879member
    dr. x said:
    I don’t know if there’s anything to this, but it sure would be nice to see a new breakthrough device from Apple soon.
    Yes, I would love to see a 14" MacBook Pro with Apple Silicon and Face ID. Cheaper and possibly upgradeable RAM and SSD or am I asking too much.

    I agree, Apple needs something breakthrough! 
    I’m always perplexed by this sentiment. Why exactly does Apple need a breakout new product or category? Where is this expectation for Google, Netflix, John Deere, Coke, or anybody? Apple is the most successful public company in history, why do they “need” this?

    I suspect what is being claimed as a need is merely a want, from those who are bored. 
    dewmemuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 42
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    neilm said:
    Grayeagle said:
    I'll just be happy to see  how the new iPhone 12 is configured. I need a replacement for the SE (2020) and one with 5G capability. 
    “Need” 5G? You mean for all those wonderful 5G networks everywhere?

    China has them.   Other countries as well.   Don't judge everything by the U.S. -- and certainly don't think of us as world leaders in anything anymore (except military spending).

    But, even here, within the expected life of an iPhone, 5G networks will be installed -- so, it is needed even here.
    cflcardsfan80
  • Reply 25 of 42
    dr. xdr. x Posts: 282member
    dr. x said:
    I don’t know if there’s anything to this, but it sure would be nice to see a new breakthrough device from Apple soon.
    Yes, I would love to see a 14" MacBook Pro with Apple Silicon and Face ID. Cheaper and possibly upgradeable RAM and SSD or am I asking too much.

    I agree, Apple needs something breakthrough! 
    I’m always perplexed by this sentiment. Why exactly does Apple need a breakout new product or category? Where is this expectation for Google, Netflix, John Deere, Coke, or anybody? Apple is the most successful public company in history, why do they “need” this?

    I suspect what is being claimed as a need is merely a want, from those who are bored. 

    I get that but Apple does need to come out with a breakthrough product every now and then to stay relevant and push technology forward. For example, the Mac switching to ARM is a breakthrough and MacOS switching from 10 to 11 also is pretty big. Ever since Tim Cook took over I felt that Apple has gotten a little stale, iPhone haven't change all that much since the iPhone X (10). As Steve Job said, focus on creating innovative products and the money will come. Somehow under cook it's more about the money but I could be wrong. That is just my opinion and feel free to respond to keep the conversation going and I'm open to hearing your thoughts. I don't agree with the point about about those who are board.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 42
    neilm said:
    Grayeagle said:
    I'll just be happy to see  how the new iPhone 12 is configured. I need a replacement for the SE (2020) and one with 5G capability. 
    “Need” 5G? You mean for all those wonderful 5G networks everywhere?
    the 2020 iPhone SE is what? 3 or 4 months old and you need a replacement? Sigh. Shakes head in amazment. Why did you buy it in the firts place when you knew that it didn't have 5G?

    4G is still iffy where I live and 5G coming to my neck of the woods is like sighting a Pink Unicorn before (or after) breakfast.
    I only use the SE to communicate. I live in  thew Washington-Baltimore area, and we'll have 5G before long. I've been on wireless since the middle of 2011, as the copper wires to my home deteriorated.  I use a 27" iMac and ask iPad for everything else. I liked my old SE, but got the new one when the original one quit working. I really liked the size and feel of the SE in my arthritic hands - - and an SE-sized iPhone is easy to fit into my trousers.   
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 42
    neilm said:
    Grayeagle said:
    I'll just be happy to see  how the new iPhone 12 is configured. I need a replacement for the SE (2020) and one with 5G capability. 
    “Need” 5G? You mean for all those wonderful 5G networks everywhere?

    China has them.   Other countries as well.   Don't judge everything by the U.S. -- and certainly don't think of us as world leaders in anything anymore (except military spending).

    But, even here, within the expected life of an iPhone, 5G networks will be installed -- so, it is needed even here.
    So you think the US is lagging behind everyone else, ever heard of spin?   That seems rather odd considering our tech and companies are the world leaders or do you consider the cheating Chinese know kids as the real leaders.  

    Moreover, being someone who actually works in the telecom business I can say with certainty that as of 2020 5G is just marketing right now even in places like China.  It will be 2-3 years before 5G becomes useful to the average user and when the big telecoms stop charging a premium for it. 

    Much of what is called 5G is just enhanced LTE and hate to break it to you folks but the big bandwidth promises of the 6GHz spectrum also have terrible range since RF signals at those frequencies do not penetrate through objects very well - it’s just physics.  If you are very close to the base station then your data rate will be excellent but any distance away and it will be lacking. 
    dewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 42
    fred1 said:
    Damn that is one good looking phone.

    $$ at the ready...
    With all due respect, I disagree. I liked the straight sides when the 5 first came out - I’m not a big fan of curved sides in phones, or cars - but I find the curved side models much easier to pick up off a table. 
    Vive la difference in tastes...
    fred1watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 42
    iPad Pro? I don't think so as it has been less than a year since its last model was released (March 2020)...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 42
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    iPad Pro? I don't think so as it has been less than a year since its last model was released (March 2020)...
    The reasons why or why not are addressed in the article.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 42
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    neilm said:
    Grayeagle said:
    I'll just be happy to see  how the new iPhone 12 is configured. I need a replacement for the SE (2020) and one with 5G capability. 
    “Need” 5G? You mean for all those wonderful 5G networks everywhere?

    China has them.   Other countries as well.   Don't judge everything by the U.S. -- and certainly don't think of us as world leaders in anything anymore (except military spending).

    But, even here, within the expected life of an iPhone, 5G networks will be installed -- so, it is needed even here.
    So you think the US is lagging behind everyone else, ever heard of spin?   That seems rather odd considering our tech and companies are the world leaders or do you consider the cheating Chinese know kids as the real leaders.  

    Moreover, being someone who actually works in the telecom business I can say with certainty that as of 2020 5G is just marketing right now even in places like China.  It will be 2-3 years before 5G becomes useful to the average user and when the big telecoms stop charging a premium for it. 

    Much of what is called 5G is just enhanced LTE and hate to break it to you folks but the big bandwidth promises of the 6GHz spectrum also have terrible range since RF signals at those frequencies do not penetrate through objects very well - it’s just physics.  If you are very close to the base station then your data rate will be excellent but any distance away and it will be lacking. 

    LOL....  Sounds like you work for the 5G-fakers of AT&T.   Not everybody believes the spin.  And, other countries march on ahead.
  • Reply 32 of 42
    fred1fred1 Posts: 1,112member
    dr. x said:
    dr. x said:
    I don’t know if there’s anything to this, but it sure would be nice to see a new breakthrough device from Apple soon.
    Yes, I would love to see a 14" MacBook Pro with Apple Silicon and Face ID. Cheaper and possibly upgradeable RAM and SSD or am I asking too much.

    I agree, Apple needs something breakthrough! 
    I’m always perplexed by this sentiment. Why exactly does Apple need a breakout new product or category? Where is this expectation for Google, Netflix, John Deere, Coke, or anybody? Apple is the most successful public company in history, why do they “need” this?

    I suspect what is being claimed as a need is merely a want, from those who are bored. 

    I get that but Apple does need to come out with a breakthrough product every now and then to stay relevant and push technology forward. For example, the Mac switching to ARM is a breakthrough and MacOS switching from 10 to 11 also is pretty big. Ever since Tim Cook took over I felt that Apple has gotten a little stale, iPhone haven't change all that much since the iPhone X (10). As Steve Job said, focus on creating innovative products and the money will come. Somehow under cook it's more about the money but I could be wrong. That is just my opinion and feel free to respond to keep the conversation going and I'm open to hearing your thoughts. I don't agree with the point about about those who are board.
    I agree with you, Dr.  X. All companies, including the ones mentioned, need to come up with something “new” at regular intervals or people get bored or move on. It may be a completely new product, a newer version of an existing product, or the company logo (e.g. the new icon for Google Maps on iOS). iPhone sales haven’t been what they were in the past few years for just this reason: they had improved features, but were basically the same. New products and new product categories are what excite people and push sales, such as with the Apple Watch and the iPodsPro. Apple needs something brand new, like maybe the glasses? 
  • Reply 33 of 42
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,691member
    neilm said:
    Grayeagle said:
    I'll just be happy to see  how the new iPhone 12 is configured. I need a replacement for the SE (2020) and one with 5G capability. 
    “Need” 5G? You mean for all those wonderful 5G networks everywhere?

    China has them.   Other countries as well.   Don't judge everything by the U.S. -- and certainly don't think of us as world leaders in anything anymore (except military spending).

    But, even here, within the expected life of an iPhone, 5G networks will be installed -- so, it is needed even here.
    So you think the US is lagging behind everyone else, ever heard of spin?   That seems rather odd considering our tech and companies are the world leaders or do you consider the cheating Chinese know kids as the real leaders.  

    Moreover, being someone who actually works in the telecom business I can say with certainty that as of 2020 5G is just marketing right now even in places like China.  It will be 2-3 years before 5G becomes useful to the average user and when the big telecoms stop charging a premium for it. 

    Much of what is called 5G is just enhanced LTE and hate to break it to you folks but the big bandwidth promises of the 6GHz spectrum also have terrible range since RF signals at those frequencies do not penetrate through objects very well - it’s just physics.  If you are very close to the base station then your data rate will be excellent but any distance away and it will be lacking. 
    I would say China is well ahead of the US on 5G in 2020.

    As of last month they had 400,000 5G base stations up and running (of 500,000 to 600,000 planned for 2020).

    They should reach over 80 million handsets for regular users this year (the range of 5G models is increasing monthly and price entry points are coming down very quickly).

    Initially, roll out was aimed at industrial areas and a huge amount of 5G related services have come online. A lot of people forget this aspect. 5G is being implemented at ports, hospitals, airports, industrial parks, transport and logistics... 

    It is these services that will provide countries who deploy 5G early with a competitive edge. 

    Consumer side 5G services followed the industrial roll out and are now running in parallel and China has accelerated its roll out times three times already.

    During the height of the COVID-19 emergency 5G was used extensively in some Chinese hospitals to pump lung scans into the cloud to be analysed via AI, greatly improving accuracy in the image diagnostic process and reducing result times to a few minutes. In parallel to this, 5G is being used to improve education services for students studying from home.

    I believe areas in some cities are already using 5G equipped infrastructure to connect 5G connected cars to their surroundings. 

    This is from 2018:

    "Currently, multiple operators in China have completed infrastructure resource checks and have started reserving resources such as optical fibers, optical cables, and electrical power. The pilot construction of 5G transport networks is underway in many Chinese cities, including Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, and Hangzhou, and the requisite technologies and solutions are being developed. In China, large-scale 5G pilot construction will likely begin in 2019 to meet 5G commercialization requirements in 2020"

    https://www.huawei.com/en/publications/winwin-magazine/32-extra/china-accelerate-5g-transport-network-deployment

    I haven't heard about anything similar for the US beyond 'talk'. China is actively rolling out its 5G transport projects and the first 5G equipped cars have already been launched. It's still baby steps but those steps are absolutely necessary. 

    WeRide's safe autonomous driving speed was 5km/h on 4G. That jumped to 30/40 km/h on 5G.

    The US is looking at DSRC for V2X with latencies around 30 milliseconds and around a 1,000 metre raduis. China is looking at carrier based C-V2X with an under 4 millisecond latency and a radius of over 1,000 metres.

    China is clearly pumping resources into its 5G technology across the board and the results are starting to be seen. 

    One train of thought is that by offloading certain features for cloud processing,  car costs can be brought down.

    China is in a position like no other because it can implement the necessary changes to infrastructure countrywide with little resistance. The US will have a lot of hurdles to overcome to be even remotely as agile as China in these areas. Just look at the sorry state of US high speed rail transport when compared to Europe and China. The US system just doesn't allow for agility. For example, Chinese carriers are working jointly to reduce costs. That is difficult to envisage in the US. 
    edited July 2020 anantksundarammuthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 34 of 42
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,371member
    fred1 said:
    dr. x said:
    dr. x said:
    I don’t know if there’s anything to this, but it sure would be nice to see a new breakthrough device from Apple soon.
    Yes, I would love to see a 14" MacBook Pro with Apple Silicon and Face ID. Cheaper and possibly upgradeable RAM and SSD or am I asking too much.

    I agree, Apple needs something breakthrough! 
    I’m always perplexed by this sentiment. Why exactly does Apple need a breakout new product or category? Where is this expectation for Google, Netflix, John Deere, Coke, or anybody? Apple is the most successful public company in history, why do they “need” this?

    I suspect what is being claimed as a need is merely a want, from those who are bored. 

    I get that but Apple does need to come out with a breakthrough product every now and then to stay relevant and push technology forward. For example, the Mac switching to ARM is a breakthrough and MacOS switching from 10 to 11 also is pretty big. Ever since Tim Cook took over I felt that Apple has gotten a little stale, iPhone haven't change all that much since the iPhone X (10). As Steve Job said, focus on creating innovative products and the money will come. Somehow under cook it's more about the money but I could be wrong. That is just my opinion and feel free to respond to keep the conversation going and I'm open to hearing your thoughts. I don't agree with the point about about those who are board.
    I agree with you, Dr.  X. All companies, including the ones mentioned, need to come up with something “new” at regular intervals or people get bored or move on. It may be a completely new product, a newer version of an existing product, or the company logo (e.g. the new icon for Google Maps on iOS). iPhone sales haven’t been what they were in the past few years for just this reason: they had improved features, but were basically the same. New products and new product categories are what excite people and push sales, such as with the Apple Watch and the iPodsPro. Apple needs something brand new, like maybe the glasses? 
    I agree that products that cater to discretionary purchase and follow a push model have to be aware of where they are on the S-curve that defines the sales lifecycle of the product. Apple, and especially Tim Cook, have a fairly keen sense of where every product they sell is sitting on the S-curve for the product itself and the product category the product resides in for the larger market. Apple does not wait until products slide into the cash cow part of the curve, where they continue to sell at steadily declining volumes with little to no promotion (often with excellent profitability due to cost management), to come up with a successor. It’s all very calculating and data driven so while everyone loves heroes, breakthroughs, home runs, and instant hits, these things are quite rare. Sustaining a highly profitable business over a long period of time involves a lot of tweaks and course corrections and subtleties that may look fairly minor or incremental in isolation, but play very well with maximizing profitability and running up the score for a product until its replacement can be queued up for its own ride on its own S-curve.

    As an aside, there are business customers that are highly resistant to technological change, notably in industries where the  capital investments are huge and the profits are defined by keeping the process that feeds the revenue streams running constantly. These customers follow a pull model, i.e., when they are ready for something new they solicit input from providers. Change can be disrupted and anything that has the potential to impede the process and reduce revenue is deferred for as long as possible. This doesn’t mean that change never happens, it does, but the S-curve that defines the lifecycle for such systems is very long. But even in these systems, planning for change has to occur and assessing where you are on the curve is an ongoing process. I’ve seen some of these systems initially designed for “upgrade” cycles in the 15-25 year time frame. 

    So yeah, every company is always looking for the next great thing, but there is a hell of a lot of incremental improvement baked into every product’s lifecycle, if and when it makes sense to apply such investments. I’d even go as far as saying that things that appear as breakthroughs to us, like the Apple Silicon Mac, have been simmering for a lot longer than those of us on the outside understand. Knowing how adept Apple under Tim Cook is at managing product investments based on where they are on their lifecycle S-curve, what we see as a bold moonshot-like announcement has been thoroughly vetted and rationalized internally. Apple is not swinging for the fence on this move, they have a well thought out plan in place to put some points on the board quickly without hoping for a miracle. If this sounds cold, calculating, and data driven - it is, but that’s how Apple has transformed itself under Tim Cook to be more than just a company with lots of great ideas.   
    edited July 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 42
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,031member
    We’re set for a while on computers, iPads, and phones. Now Apple Glass might require me to separate myself from some cash. 
    pbruttowatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 42
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 1,031member
    neilm said:
    Grayeagle said:
    I'll just be happy to see  how the new iPhone 12 is configured. I need a replacement for the SE (2020) and one with 5G capability. 
    “Need” 5G? You mean for all those wonderful 5G networks everywhere?

    China has them.   Other countries as well.   Don't judge everything by the U.S. -- and certainly don't think of us as world leaders in anything anymore (except military spending).

    But, even here, within the expected life of an iPhone, 5G networks will be installed -- so, it is needed even here.
    Don’t get carried away with these technological advances. These are easy — just physics. Give Apple credit for making tech advances useful.

    But, there has been comparatively little advancement in their societal usefulness. People wasting their time being misinformed and misfocused by social media, and media in general is a profound downside. The immediate need today is to move education online, and there is precious little support for this at the secondary level. Except for some sci-fi level tech advancement, what we have now has got to be made to work to address our immediate needs. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 42
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    avon b7 said:
    neilm said:
    Grayeagle said:
    I'll just be happy to see  how the new iPhone 12 is configured. I need a replacement for the SE (2020) and one with 5G capability. 
    “Need” 5G? You mean for all those wonderful 5G networks everywhere?

    China has them.   Other countries as well.   Don't judge everything by the U.S. -- and certainly don't think of us as world leaders in anything anymore (except military spending).

    But, even here, within the expected life of an iPhone, 5G networks will be installed -- so, it is needed even here.
    So you think the US is lagging behind everyone else, ever heard of spin?   That seems rather odd considering our tech and companies are the world leaders or do you consider the cheating Chinese know kids as the real leaders.  

    Moreover, being someone who actually works in the telecom business I can say with certainty that as of 2020 5G is just marketing right now even in places like China.  It will be 2-3 years before 5G becomes useful to the average user and when the big telecoms stop charging a premium for it. 

    Much of what is called 5G is just enhanced LTE and hate to break it to you folks but the big bandwidth promises of the 6GHz spectrum also have terrible range since RF signals at those frequencies do not penetrate through objects very well - it’s just physics.  If you are very close to the base station then your data rate will be excellent but any distance away and it will be lacking. 
    I would say China is well ahead of the US on 5G in 2020.

    As of last month they had 400,000 5G base stations up and running (of 500,000 to 600,000 planned for 2020).

    They should reach over 80 million handsets for regular users this year (the range of 5G models is increasing monthly and price entry points are coming down very quickly).

    Initially, roll out was aimed at industrial areas and a huge amount of 5G related services have come online. A lot of people forget this aspect. 5G is being implemented at ports, hospitals, airports, industrial parks, transport and logistics... 

    It is these services that will provide countries who deploy 5G early with a competitive edge. 

    Consumer side 5G services followed the industrial roll out and are now running in parallel and China has accelerated its roll out times three times already.

    During the height of the COVID-19 emergency 5G was used extensively in some Chinese hospitals to pump lung scans into the cloud to be analysed via AI, greatly improving accuracy in the image diagnostic process and reducing result times to a few minutes. In parallel to this, 5G is being used to improve education services for students studying from home.

    I believe areas in some cities are already using 5G equipped infrastructure to connect 5G connected cars to their surroundings. 

    This is from 2018:

    "Currently, multiple operators in China have completed infrastructure resource checks and have started reserving resources such as optical fibers, optical cables, and electrical power. The pilot construction of 5G transport networks is underway in many Chinese cities, including Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, and Hangzhou, and the requisite technologies and solutions are being developed. In China, large-scale 5G pilot construction will likely begin in 2019 to meet 5G commercialization requirements in 2020"

    https://www.huawei.com/en/publications/winwin-magazine/32-extra/china-accelerate-5g-transport-network-deployment

    I haven't heard about anything similar for the US beyond 'talk'. China is actively rolling out its 5G transport projects and the first 5G equipped cars have already been launched. It's still baby steps but those steps are absolutely necessary. 

    WeRide's safe autonomous driving speed was 5km/h on 4G. That jumped to 30/40 km/h on 5G.

    The US is looking at DSRC for V2X with latencies around 30 milliseconds and around a 1,000 metre raduis. China is looking at carrier based C-V2X with an under 4 millisecond latency and a radius of over 1,000 metres.

    China is clearly pumping resources into its 5G technology across the board and the results are starting to be seen. 

    One train of thought is that by offloading certain features for cloud processing,  car costs can be brought down.

    China is in a position like no other because it can implement the necessary changes to infrastructure countrywide with little resistance. The US will have a lot of hurdles to overcome to be even remotely as agile as China in these areas. Just look at the sorry state of US high speed rail transport when compared to Europe and China. The US system just doesn't allow for agility. For example, Chinese carriers are working jointly to reduce costs. That is difficult to envisage in the US. 

    So, while China charges full steam towards ramping up a full blown version of the world's next communication technology, the U.S. can't even keep snail-mail going.

    The difference is:  one country invests in itself, the other rapes itself. 
    ....  The U.S. steel industry thought it could divert its enormous profits to labor, management and shareholders and continue to run forever using 100 year old technology.
    ........  It didn't end well.   Today those mighty mills are a bike trail that I ran on yesterday morning.   It's a beautiful bike trail.    But it doesn't make much steel.
    edited July 2020 larryjw
  • Reply 39 of 42
    techconctechconc Posts: 275member
    iPad Pro? I don't think so as it has been less than a year since its last model was released (March 2020)...
    There is precedence for this kind of update cycle (see iPad 3 - March 2012 and iPad 4 - November 2012).  When you look at this past March release, it was really nothing but the exact same iPad Pro + Lidar.  They likely did this as a test bed for Lidar based apps.  Also, they wanted to talk about Lidar at WWDC and it would be strange doing that without a product that shipped with it.  Adding the extra GPU core was nothing and standardizing on 6GB was very trivial.  This is the real iPad Pro update.  I passed on the March update as it seemed very much like a placeholder.  Looks like I was right.  I also advised others not to upgrade.  I'm definitely looking forward to this fall's real iPad Pro release.
  • Reply 40 of 42
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 1,337member
    roly said:
    You mean “iphone 11s”. Why is everybody assuming “iPhone 12” and a break with naming conventions, apart from one or two exceptions, for more than ten years?
    Yes but a new design has always been a whole # model, and not an S edition. As you said exceptions have been made so why not this time around also ?

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