US trying for 'clean network' by banning 'untrusted Chinese apps' like WeChat, TikTok

AppleInsider

Describing them as "untrusted Chinese apps," the US government says it wants WeChat, TikTok, and other unspecified services to be banned from all of the app stores in the US.

WeChat may be banned in the US

As Microsoft is in talks to buy TikTok. and Apple is not, US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has unveiled plans to ban similar services that, he says, pose "significant threats to the personal data of US citizens."

Following President Trump's recent announcement that TikTok will be banned from the US after September 15, unless it is bought by an American firm, the Secretary described five actions the government intends to take.

According to BBC News, these include banning apps from WeChat, TikTok, and potentially other Chinese firms such as Alibaba, Baidu, and Tencent.

Without specifying how this could be done, Secretary Pompeo said that Chinese smartphone manufacturers would be prevented from either pre-installing, or making available for download, the most popular US apps.

He also said that steps would be taken to ensure that "untrusted People's Republic of China (PRC) carriers" are not utilized in the States.

Further, the personal data of US citizens would no longer be allowed to be stored or accessed on Chinese cloud-based services. Lastly, undersea internet cables will not be used for intelligence-gathering by China.

The Guardian newspaper reported that Pompeo said this would protect "our businesses' most valuable intellectual property, including COVID vaccine research." Plus "We don't want companies to be complicit in Huawei human rights abuses, or the [Chinese] surveillance apparatus."

BBC News says US Secretary of State Pompeo also did not explain how the government had the authority to achieve these plans. However, he reportedly said that over 30 countries already have such "clean networks," and that the government would "work closely with commerce and other agencies."

This software and services-specific ban follows ongoing tensions between the US and China that have seen the implementation of tariffs, and the blocking of technology from Huawei.

Apart from imposing a limitation on the macOS and iOS App Store, it's not clear how these plans will affect Apple. China-based servers do contain users' iCloud data, but only of those based in the region.

WeChat has such great popularity in China that it has been argued it alone mean Apple can never again dominate smartphones in the region.

arthurba

Europe has been making pretty much the same case against the US for some time now.  That EU citizens need greater data sovereignty, and that there should be 'local' cloud providers and social networks, app stores and network services rather than primarily US ones, and there should be limits to pre-installed apps too.  And US companies and politicians have been arguing vehemently against it.  But of course the EU has been signalling these changes and gradually introducing laws and then enforcing them gradually over 15 years.

DAalseth

wow, just wow.
So much political BS and spin in one statement.
Don't see them doing anything against US companies that collect personal data and then sell it to anyone, including the Chinese.

Rayz2016

Fair enough. The Chinese don’t allow their citizens’ data to be stored outside the country. 

What about US companies that run their platforms through Chinese servers, like Zoom?

gatorguy

And on the other side of the fence the Chinese have actively blocked many US/western services as being dangerous for use by their Chinese citizens. Seems perfectly expected since apparently no one trusts anybody, that's the position the world has placed itself in. Heck a lot of us probably don't even know our neighbors anymore. Trust no one. Geesh, it's a wonderful world.

svanstrom

arthurba said:

Europe has been making pretty much the same case against the US for some time now.  That EU citizens need greater data sovereignty, and that there should be 'local' cloud providers and social networks, app stores and network services rather than primarily US ones, and there should be limits to pre-installed apps too.  And US companies and politicians have been arguing vehemently against it.  But of course the EU has been signalling these changes and gradually introducing laws and then enforcing them gradually over 15 years.

I would argue that as one get deeper into what's actually going on, the situations are completely different; but practically speaking… Basically the same thing when one speaks from a solution-perspective; ie that we want the data to stay within specific regions. And then it doesn't really matter if the reason is commercial, philosophical, or a matter of national security.

p-dog

One word: “gaslighting”!

Well, ok, maybe a couple more: “childish vengeance” - especially against TikTok K-Poppers for spoiling the Toddler-in-Chief’s pro-COVID Tulsa rally.

svanstrom

gatorguy said:

And on the other side of the fence the Chinese have actively blocked many US/western services as being dangerous for use by their Chinese citizens. Seems perfectly expected since apparently no one trusts anybody. That's the position the world has placed itself in. Heck a lot of us probably don't even know our neighbors anymore.

The danger they're blocking as far as their own (Chinese) citizens is more that the CCP is afraid of what will happen the day that they no longer are able to have more or less absolute control of the narrative that reaches the people; so it's the CCP that protects itself by keeping information away from the people, as well as arresting their own people saying the "wrong" things on social networks.

That's why we have organisations like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GreatFire, helping the people in China to get free access to information.

razorpit

p-dog said:

One word: “gaslighting”!

Well, ok, maybe a couple more: “childish vengeance” - especially against TikTok K-Poppers for spoiling the Toddler-in-Chief’s pro-COVID Tulsa rally.

LOL, no. More like TikTok harvesting data from US citizens, but nice try.

verne arase

gatorguy said:

And on the other side of the fence the Chinese have actively blocked many US/western services as being dangerous for use by their Chinese citizens. Seems perfectly expected since apparently no one trusts anybody, that's the position the world has placed itself in. Heck a lot of us probably don't even know our neighbors anymore. Trust no one. Geesh, it's a wonderful world.

You make it sound that this is a recent development, or a response to our actions.

In reality, the CCP created the Great Firewall, and no Chinese citizen has been able to see outside social media or news for quite some time.

In fact, the only ones who see outside the Great Firewall are those courageous enough to install illegal VPNs or the 50¢ army who pervasively post in western media pushing CCP soft power.

Thanks Cisco - hope you made a few bucks helping to block out the truth from China.

qwerty52

Finally, it was necessary 

rotateleftbyte

I get a real feeling in my gut that this will not end well.

I'd like to see how well a 'china free' internet works. Until they can guarantee that no chip, capacitor, resistor or anything else has been sourced from china this will be more pie-in-the-sky from the current US Presidency.

While they are about it they need to perform a detailed audit on every line of code used in the software to make sure that the only phoning home being done is to a us TLA and to nowhere else.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall at the briefing before this was announced.

wood1208

30 years back I observed and said, Russia is not a long term enemy of America but China is. That time no one believed me. The Chinese long term strategy is to become world power by any means and they executed well when we look over 30 years in USA. They so nicely fooled world where they want to go. Chinese political system and hungry for wealth Chinese society will not stop to adopt any means to get ahead including selling American or anyone's personal data if that benefits them or there government to control,expand there authorization over world.

So, stop taking Chinese companies side because what many in the world believe unethical is normal in China.

NinjaMan

People are talking about two different things - the data isn't being used for advertising or anything like that...the data being collected and shared with the Chinese gov't is for the purpose of prosecution. Covid has significantly reduced traveling but do you think if we were living under normal conditions you wouldn't have travelers to China being harassed and arrested based on the data collected by an app like TikTok? They're doing it to their own people and once you cross that border you have little to no protection. In addition to proactively providing data, they also are a propaganda machine for the Chinese gov't specifically related Xinjiang. That to me is enough for countries to come together to ban the app...

tjwolf

razorpit said:

p-dog said:

One word: “gaslighting”!

Well, ok, maybe a couple more: “childish vengeance” - especially against TikTok K-Poppers for spoiling the Toddler-in-Chief’s pro-COVID Tulsa rally.

LOL, no. More like TikTok harvesting data from US citizens, but nice try.

Of course that's what the Administrations *says*.  Just as with Huawei, there's are accusations of wrong-doing - in order to support its actions - without any proof that such wrongdoing actually took place.  To this day, there has been no evidence presented that Huawei snooped on its networks, much less send such information back to China.  Sadly, with the POTUS lying publicly on a daily basis, *nothing* this Administration says can be trusted.

Before someone suggests that there *is* evidence because the UK & Australia have agreed with the US' assessment, I will point out that both countries are economically and ideologically tied to the US - countries that are not beholden to the US, like Germany, have found no evidence at all.  Heck, even the UK said there was no evidence until the US had a few more words with them and they 'folded'.

Not saying TikTok or WeChat or even Huawei are innocent, but what is supposed to separate the US from countries like China is that here, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.  Until Trump came along, "well they're doing it..." wasn't a good enough reason for us to stoop to the same level.

pslice

So, the Chinese ban US apps, we ban theirs. The EU bans anything other than theirs. Sounds pretty damn childish. One-upmanship. 

svanstrom

rotateleftbyte said:

I get a real feeling in my gut that this will not end well.

I'd like to see how well a 'china free' internet works. Until they can guarantee that no chip, capacitor, resistor or anything else has been sourced from china this will be more pie-in-the-sky from the current US Presidency.

While they are about it they need to perform a detailed audit on every line of code used in the software to make sure that the only phoning home being done is to a us TLA and to nowhere else.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall at the briefing before this was announced.

Don’t be silly.

if your boat was sinking you’d fix the big holes even if you knew you couldn’t fix all the small ones; the same applies here. You do what you can. 

tzeshan

Is this the beginning of the end of internet culture? 

tzeshan

Will Apple remove WeChat app from app store? Waiting for Apple response. 

tzeshan

China bans US apps for disseminating information against Chinese laws. US bans China apps for stealing information of person disseminating information against Chinese laws. The fundamental of the dispute centers around freedom of speech. 

tzeshan

Apple apps provides safeguards against stealing personal information while Google Android apps do not. This is my understanding.