New Apple Watch Series 6 has blood oxygen sensor & bright new colors

123457

Comments

  • Reply 121 of 160
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,527member
    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.
    As a European, I find this whole discussion somewhat confusing. 

    I have spent a total of three nights in a sleep lab recently — two nights to diagnose the apnoea that my partner had noticed and apply a CPAP machine as necessary, and another stay to properly adjust the CPAP machine that had been prescribed as a result of the first stay. 

    I know for a fact that both the CPAP machine vendor and the hospital are in it to make a profit, but from my perspective, here's what happened: 

    My partner freaked out over a medical condition that, upon research and consultation with my doctor, turned out to be potentially life-threatening. 
    I was sent to the sleep lab. 
    They prescribed a CPAP machine, since it was evident that it made the problem disappear, and spent another night adjusting the pressure.
    I have a CPAP machine and no apnoea, plus I no longer snore.  

    None of which cost me a dime beyond the regular health insurance premiums I have paid every month for the past three decades, like everybody else. 

    People make a living, I keep living, everybody is happy. 

    End of story. 
    edited September 2020 dewme
  • Reply 122 of 160
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,261member
    spheric said:
    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.
    As a European, I find this whole discussion somewhat confusing. 

    I have spent a total of three nights in a sleep lab recently — two nights to diagnose the apnoea that my partner had noticed and apply a CPAP machine as necessary, and another stay to properly adjust the CPAP machine that had been prescribed as a result of the first stay. 

    I know for a fact that both the CPAP machine vendor and the hospital are in it to make a profit, but from my perspective, here's what happened: 

    My partner freaked out over a medical condition that, upon research and consultation with my doctor, turned out to be potentially life-threatening. 
    I was sent to the sleep lab. 
    They prescribed a CPAP machine, since it was evident that it made the problem disappear, and spent another night adjusting the pressure.
    I have a CPAP machine and no apnoea, plus I no longer snore.  

    None of which cost me a dime beyond the regular health insurance premiums I have paid every month for the past three decades, like everybody else. 

    People make a living, I keep living, everybody is happy. 

    End of story. 
    Exactly the same experience and outcome for me, except I had to go through an additional cycle to recalibrate my pressure because I was not getting the relief I needed after a couple of years of using the CPAP. I requested the retest after not feeling well for an extended period of time. My hope is that the Apple Watch will let people know that they may need to talk to their doctor about getting a reevaluation/recalibration much sooner so they don’t have to live in a degraded state for weeks or months before they seek help. That would be a major win for people and Apple Watch.
    sphericrazorpit
  • Reply 123 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Apple said that indeed it would also take place periodically.
    spheric
  • Reply 124 of 160
    Beats said:

    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    They briefly mentioned Covid-19. How accurate is this for DETECTING a new infection in users? I'm guessing they would have drove that point home if it were accurate.
    Low blood oxygen isn’t only related to COVID-19, they started on this feature long before that was even a thing. Not to mention FDA regulations, you can’t “detect” a virus based on a singular symptom.

    I figured. Just thought Tim Cook would go overdrive on engineering to get it on the market ASAP.

    The FDA would definitely hate any "detection" but I thought they could alert you on the possibility like a notification saying "You are showing symptoms of Covid-19. Tap here for details and recommended measures to take" To avoid violating laws.
    That statement would be illegal. You cannot allow people to self diagnose disease with consumer electronics. Not sure how else to explain this. 

    How is that a diagnosis?
    “You are showing symptoms of Covid-19.” is a diagnosis. It could literally be any other reason their O2 levels are low. How is this not clear?

    I still don't get how that's a diagnosis but maybe it's some word gymnastics. It's no more a diagnosis than the afib feature.
    Really? Because you're telling them what the symptom indicates — which is a diagnosis. 

    diagnosis

    • n.
      The act or process of identifying or determining the nature and cause of a disease or injury through evaluation of patient history, examination, and review of laboratory data.
    • n.
      The opinion derived from such an evaluation.

    Apple's footnote on the feature: 
    Blood Oxygen app measurements are not intended for medical use, including self-diagnosis or consultation with a doctor, and are only designed for general fitness and wellness purposes.
    Likewise, if you get a irregular rhythm notification, it doesn't diagnose you and tell you that you have Afib, you have to go to a doctor to get properly diagnosed by an expert. "It is not intended for use by people under 22 years old or those who have been previously diagnosed with atrial fibrillation (Afib)."

    This kind of thing is regulated.



  • Reply 125 of 160

    Beats said:

    Beats said:
    From the Apple website:

    "There’s a face for that. Now you can easily discover and share custom faces for whoever you are and whatever you’re into — with all the information that matters most all in one place. Find your favorites on the App Store, the web, or social media."

    Guys, is this new? I remember people asking for this feature since the first Apple Watch. Faces downloaded from App Store and most likely allowing us to create them and share.

    Disregard if this isn't news.
    This was known since WWDC. You can share or download face/complication/etc combos. Not 3rd 
    party faces. 

    So you can't create your own? Ok damn.
    You can't create a custom designed face, if that's what you mean. But you can customize a face with complications and all and share it with a friend or whatever.
  • Reply 126 of 160


    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    They briefly mentioned Covid-19. How accurate is this for DETECTING a new infection in users? I'm guessing they would have drove that point home if it were accurate.
    Low blood oxygen isn’t only related to COVID-19, they started on this feature long before that was even a thing. Not to mention FDA regulations, you can’t “detect” a virus based on a singular symptom.

    I figured. Just thought Tim Cook would go overdrive on engineering to get it on the market ASAP.

    The FDA would definitely hate any "detection" but I thought they could alert you on the possibility like a notification saying "You are showing symptoms of Covid-19. Tap here for details and recommended measures to take" To avoid violating laws.
    That statement would be illegal. You cannot allow people to self diagnose disease with consumer electronics. Not sure how else to explain this. 

    How is that a diagnosis?
    “You are showing symptoms of Covid-19.” is a diagnosis. It could literally be any other reason their O2 levels are low. How is this not clear?
    It's one of many possible symptoms.

    Read up.
    No shit, Sherlock. I'm saying you can't have the Watch determining that low O2 is a result of the user having COVID, which is impossible to determine.
  • Reply 127 of 160

    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    They briefly mentioned Covid-19. How accurate is this for DETECTING a new infection in users? I'm guessing they would have drove that point home if it were accurate.
    Low blood oxygen isn’t only related to COVID-19, they started on this feature long before that was even a thing. Not to mention FDA regulations, you can’t “detect” a virus based on a singular symptom.

    I figured. Just thought Tim Cook would go overdrive on engineering to get it on the market ASAP.

    The FDA would definitely hate any "detection" but I thought they could alert you on the possibility like a notification saying "You are showing symptoms of Covid-19. Tap here for details and recommended measures to take" To avoid violating laws.
    That statement would be illegal. You cannot allow people to self diagnose disease with consumer electronics. Not sure how else to explain this. 

    How is that a diagnosis?
    “You are showing symptoms of Covid-19.” is a diagnosis. It could literally be any other reason their O2 levels are low. How is this not clear?
    Seriously?  “You are experiencing symptoms of ...” is just a factual statement. It’s not a “diagnosis.”  
    It's not a factual statement unless you know the user has Covid, which you cannot know! Are you people serious? 
  • Reply 128 of 160

    Xed said:

    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    They briefly mentioned Covid-19. How accurate is this for DETECTING a new infection in users? I'm guessing they would have drove that point home if it were accurate.
    Low blood oxygen isn’t only related to COVID-19, they started on this feature long before that was even a thing. Not to mention FDA regulations, you can’t “detect” a virus based on a singular symptom.

    I figured. Just thought Tim Cook would go overdrive on engineering to get it on the market ASAP.

    The FDA would definitely hate any "detection" but I thought they could alert you on the possibility like a notification saying "You are showing symptoms of Covid-19. Tap here for details and recommended measures to take" To avoid violating laws.
    That statement would be illegal. You cannot allow people to self diagnose disease with consumer electronics. Not sure how else to explain this. 

    How is that a diagnosis?
    “You are showing symptoms of Covid-19.” is a diagnosis. It could literally be any other reason their O2 levels are low. How is this not clear?
    It's one of many possible symptoms.

    Read up.
    I believe his point is that Apple won't say "You have COVID-19" simply because you have a symptom of COVID-19. That's a post hoc fallacy. Because of this, therefore that. It would simply tell you what symptom you have. It's like saying "You've fallen from a ladder" when the Watch detects a fall instead of saying it detects a fall. Sure, being up high on a ladder can lead to a fall, but there are countless other reasons. It's the problem with people using WebMD to self-diagnose based on a minimal symptom recognition.
    Someone here understands basic logic! Thank you.
    jdb8167
  • Reply 129 of 160

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 130 of 160


    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    They briefly mentioned Covid-19. How accurate is this for DETECTING a new infection in users? I'm guessing they would have drove that point home if it were accurate.
    Low blood oxygen isn’t only related to COVID-19, they started on this feature long before that was even a thing. Not to mention FDA regulations, you can’t “detect” a virus based on a singular symptom.

    I figured. Just thought Tim Cook would go overdrive on engineering to get it on the market ASAP.

    The FDA would definitely hate any "detection" but I thought they could alert you on the possibility like a notification saying "You are showing symptoms of Covid-19. Tap here for details and recommended measures to take" To avoid violating laws.
    That statement would be illegal. You cannot allow people to self diagnose disease with consumer electronics. Not sure how else to explain this. 

    How is that a diagnosis?
    “You are showing symptoms of Covid-19.” is a diagnosis. It could literally be any other reason their O2 levels are low. How is this not clear?
    It's one of many possible symptoms.

    Read up.
    No shit, Sherlock. I'm saying you can't have the Watch determining that low O2 is a result of the user having COVID, which is impossible to determine.
    Yeah, no shit. You're having (as the other guy, @Xed I think, is) trouble understanding basic phrases like "many possible...".

    Whatever.
    edited September 2020
  • Reply 131 of 160

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 

    Yeh, that's the industry's excuse for over charging Americans.   It's bull.   But it keeps their profits up and the fools dumb & happy.

    The drug industry charges based on what the market will bear.   The price has noting to do with either manufacturing cost or R&D costs.   Here in the U.S. they can get away with overcharging because our government protects their pricing.   Elsewhere, governments not only don't protect them they challenge them.
    jdb8167
  • Reply 132 of 160

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 

    Yeh, that's the industry's excuse for over charging Americans.   It's bull.   But it keeps their profits up and the fools dumb & happy.

    The drug industry charges based on what the market will bear.   The price has noting to do with either manufacturing cost or R&D costs.   Here in the U.S. they can get away with overcharging because our government protects their pricing.   Elsewhere, governments not only don't protect them they challenge them.
    Interestingly -- I am sorry if this causes some serious cognitive dissonance -- the guy you love to hate is the first US President in a loooong time who's taken on the industry by the ****s, by requiring: (i) pricing transparency; (ii) importations from Canada; (iii) allowing CMS to negotiate prices no higher than 125% (IIRC) of the average drug price paid by other well-off countries; (iv) trying to bring critical health-related manufacturing back to the US.

    Tough to swallow, huh?
    SpamSandwichrazorpitGG1
  • Reply 133 of 160
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,527member

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 
    Is that your perception? Really? Wow. 

    That’s a rather…myopic view of the world. 

    There are currently at least 184 covid vaccine development efforts, and the VAST majority of those, including the vast majority of clinical trials, are being developed and financed OUTSIDE your country. 

    Stop being an idiot. Medical advances have been international efforts for many, many years, and your “system” has the advantage of being the most profitable for medical corporations, and that’s pretty much its only advantage. Yes, many of the world’s top hospitals for certain conditions are located in the United States, but rather a lot of them are also located OUTSIDE the US. 

    The US also has the distinction of being pretty much the only first-world nation where life expectancy has been DROPPING. This may be unrelated to medical care, though, and merely indicative of terrible living conditions faced by many less affluent Americans today. I don’t know. 
    fastasleepjdb8167
  • Reply 134 of 160
    spheric said:

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 
    Stop being an idiot
    Ah, insults, again. Always a good substitute for an argument. But, it might get you flagged.

    More apropos, how many of the "184" are in Phase 3 trials (assuming no one here would volunteer for a Russian or Chinese vaccine)? Six major ones: Five from the US, one from the UK.* For every one of those, it's the US taxpayer that has provided most of the at-risk funding.

    * There are two in China and one Russia, which I would not throw into the mix, hence my assumption.
    razorpit
  • Reply 135 of 160


    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    They briefly mentioned Covid-19. How accurate is this for DETECTING a new infection in users? I'm guessing they would have drove that point home if it were accurate.
    Low blood oxygen isn’t only related to COVID-19, they started on this feature long before that was even a thing. Not to mention FDA regulations, you can’t “detect” a virus based on a singular symptom.

    I figured. Just thought Tim Cook would go overdrive on engineering to get it on the market ASAP.

    The FDA would definitely hate any "detection" but I thought they could alert you on the possibility like a notification saying "You are showing symptoms of Covid-19. Tap here for details and recommended measures to take" To avoid violating laws.
    That statement would be illegal. You cannot allow people to self diagnose disease with consumer electronics. Not sure how else to explain this. 

    How is that a diagnosis?
    “You are showing symptoms of Covid-19.” is a diagnosis. It could literally be any other reason their O2 levels are low. How is this not clear?
    It's one of many possible symptoms.

    Read up.
    No shit, Sherlock. I'm saying you can't have the Watch determining that low O2 is a result of the user having COVID, which is impossible to determine.
    Yeah, no shit. You're having (as the other guy, @Xed I think, is) trouble understanding basic phrases like "many possible...".

    Whatever.
    You're having trouble understanding that telling someone that a biometric reading is indicative of a specific disease when it could be indicative of any number other completely unrelated things is a) dangerous and b) illegal. 

    Whatever, yourself.
    jdb8167
  • Reply 136 of 160


    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    They briefly mentioned Covid-19. How accurate is this for DETECTING a new infection in users? I'm guessing they would have drove that point home if it were accurate.
    Low blood oxygen isn’t only related to COVID-19, they started on this feature long before that was even a thing. Not to mention FDA regulations, you can’t “detect” a virus based on a singular symptom.

    I figured. Just thought Tim Cook would go overdrive on engineering to get it on the market ASAP.

    The FDA would definitely hate any "detection" but I thought they could alert you on the possibility like a notification saying "You are showing symptoms of Covid-19. Tap here for details and recommended measures to take" To avoid violating laws.
    That statement would be illegal. You cannot allow people to self diagnose disease with consumer electronics. Not sure how else to explain this. 

    How is that a diagnosis?
    “You are showing symptoms of Covid-19.” is a diagnosis. It could literally be any other reason their O2 levels are low. How is this not clear?
    It's one of many possible symptoms.

    Read up.
    No shit, Sherlock. I'm saying you can't have the Watch determining that low O2 is a result of the user having COVID, which is impossible to determine.
    Yeah, no shit. You're having (as the other guy, @Xed I think, is) trouble understanding basic phrases like "many possible...".

    Whatever.
    You're having trouble understanding that telling someone that a biometric reading is indicative of a specific disease when it could be indicative of any number other completely unrelated things is a) dangerous and b) illegal. 

    Whatever, yourself.
    "Indicative"? Don't attribute to me words I didn't use. That's plainly lying (since most people don't read the whole thread). Clever, but cheap. Or, as I said before, you have trouble reading some simple, basic text I wrote.

    For what it's worth, you may wish to search for the terms "silent hypoxia and covid" from a reputable site(such as, say, webmd.com). It might be enlightening.

    So, all I've got so far from you all are insults, ad hominems, and lying. Oh, and fancy-sounding (but irrelevant) Latin, non sequiturs as it were. Not one decent argument (apart from which, I am still wondering what it is that we're arguing about.... but at this point, who cares, I am along for the ride...)
    edited September 2020 SpamSandwichrazorpit
  • Reply 137 of 160
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,527member
    spheric said:

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 
    Stop being an idiot
    Ah, insults, again. Always a good substitute for an argument. But, it might get you flagged.

    More apropos, how many of the "184" are in Phase 3 trials (assuming no one here would volunteer for a Russian or Chinese vaccine)? Six major ones: Five from the US, one from the UK.* For every one of those, it's the US taxpayer that has provided most of the at-risk funding.

    * There are two in China and one Russia, which I would not throw into the mix, hence my assumption.
    Your sources please? 

    Mine say that as of a week ago, there are a total of seven vaccines in Phase III trials currently, ONE of those being a US development, and another a joint development with the German BioNtech.
    Another 25 are in Phase I/II testing; four of those are American.  


    And yes, framing the current state of vaccine development as the whole world waiting to leech off American research is — apologies for the bluntness — idiotic. That’s not even an insult; it’s a gentle way of phrasing it. 

    For Chrissakes, the first PCR Test was developed in Germany by Christian Drosten. The whole developed world had working Covid tests when the US was still in denial and the only test available there had a 50% failure rate because the US refused to use anything not developed there! South Korea had already quelled infections by massive testing and contact tracing by the time the US even had a usable test to use. 

    There may be merit to the idea that the United States are at the forefront of medical advances in some areas, but using this particular situation to beat the jingoistic drums is literally the dumbest possible time since the development of the CAT scan by EMI-funded scientists in Britain fifty years ago. 
    edited September 2020 GeorgeBMacjdb8167
  • Reply 138 of 160

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 

    Yeh, that's the industry's excuse for over charging Americans.   It's bull.   But it keeps their profits up and the fools dumb & happy.

    The drug industry charges based on what the market will bear.   The price has noting to do with either manufacturing cost or R&D costs.   Here in the U.S. they can get away with overcharging because our government protects their pricing.   Elsewhere, governments not only don't protect them they challenge them.
    Interestingly -- I am sorry if this causes some serious cognitive dissonance -- the guy you love to hate is the first US President in a loooong time who's taken on the industry by the ****s, by requiring: (i) pricing transparency; (ii) importations from Canada; (iii) allowing CMS to negotiate prices no higher than 125% (IIRC) of the average drug price paid by other well-off countries; (iv) trying to bring critical health-related manufacturing back to the US.

    Tough to swallow, huh?

    Not really, it's not like he has actually done anything of any impact.  Anything that actually fixed any problems.   As usual, just a lot of talk and showmanship.
  • Reply 139 of 160
    spheric said:
    spheric said:

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 
    Stop being an idiot
    Ah, insults, again. Always a good substitute for an argument. But, it might get you flagged.

    More apropos, how many of the "184" are in Phase 3 trials (assuming no one here would volunteer for a Russian or Chinese vaccine)? Six major ones: Five from the US, one from the UK.* For every one of those, it's the US taxpayer that has provided most of the at-risk funding.

    * There are two in China and one Russia, which I would not throw into the mix, hence my assumption.
    Your sources please? 
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html

    I have no idea about the credibility of your source. Figures that you might cite some like that.

    edited September 2020 SpamSandwichrazorpit
  • Reply 140 of 160
    spheric said:
    spheric said:

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 
    Stop being an idiot
    Ah, insults, again. Always a good substitute for an argument. But, it might get you flagged.

    More apropos, how many of the "184" are in Phase 3 trials (assuming no one here would volunteer for a Russian or Chinese vaccine)? Six major ones: Five from the US, one from the UK.* For every one of those, it's the US taxpayer that has provided most of the at-risk funding.

    * There are two in China and one Russia, which I would not throw into the mix, hence my assumption.
    Your sources please? 

    Mine say that as of a week ago, there are a total of seven vaccines in Phase III trials currently, ONE of those being a US development, and another a joint development with the German BioNtech.
    Another 25 are in Phase I/II testing; four of those are American.  


    And yes, framing the current state of vaccine development as the whole world waiting to leech off American research is — apologies for the bluntness — idiotic. That’s not even an insult; it’s a gentle way of phrasing it. 

    For Chrissakes, the first PCR Test was developed in Germany by Christian Drosten. The whole developed world had working Covid tests when the US was still in denial and the only test available there had a 50% failure rate because the US refused to use anything not developed there! South Korea had already quelled infections by massive testing and contact tracing by the time the US even had a usable test to use. 

    There may be merit to the idea that the United States are at the forefront of medical advances in some areas, but using this particular situation to beat the jingoistic drums is literally the dumbest possible time since the development of the CAT scan by EMI-funded scientists in Britain fifty years ago. 

    LOL...  While that is all correct, as you pointed out, you don't even have to go to vaccines.   Just look at basic testing:   While many countries, perhaps most countries, were busy testing and tracing and removing the infectious from their streets, the U.S. is STILL bumbling around trying to come up with implement an effective test and testing strategy -- at least one that doesn't take a week before results are known.

    But, it's ok that 200,000 Americans died and millions unemployed because of the bumbling of the U.S. president and his healthcare team.   The stock market is at record highs (as is our deficit).
    Here you go again, with a post that reeks of ignorance (there should be, but there's no law against it). Assuming you're interested in actual facts, here's a quiz for you (I'll keep the list small):

    1) Which country in the list below has the lowest per-capita deaths?
    Belgium
    Spain
    Italy
    US
    UK

    2) Which country in the list below has the highest per-capita tests?
    Belgium
    Spain
    New Zealand 
    Norway
    US
    GG1razorpit
Sign In or Register to comment.