New Apple Watch Series 6 has blood oxygen sensor & bright new colors

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Comments

  • Reply 141 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    ctt_zh said:
    melgross said:

    iOS_Guy80 said:
    I am getting it no matter what (part of the every-other-year cycle). But I really wanted a battery life metric. Also, WTF was the lady talking about with “no power adapter”?
    Rumor has it that there will be no charging adaptor in the new iPhones, so possibly no charging adaptor in the Watch Series 6, if so they still would have to include (I assume) the charging “puck”.
    That’s what they said.

    this is something being pushed by the EU. For several years, Apple has had a running battle with them about charging connectors. The EU doesn’t want manufacturers giving chargers away with watches, phones, tablets, and possibly, laptops and other mobile devices. The EU has wanted Apple to change the input socket on their devices to “standard” charging sockets, which for a long time has been, and still is on my Beats Studio 3 phones, micro USB. Now, USB 3 is superseding that, thank heavens. But I don’t know what’s going to happen long term. They passed the law a year ago, or so. I don’t know if Apple is the first to adhere to it or not. I suppose we’ll find out when other manufacturers come out with new products.

    If you're referring to this law planned in late January 2020 I'm not sure it's been implemented yet...


    One interesting point...

    'ensure that consumers are no longer obliged to buy new chargers with each new device: strategies to decouple the purchase of chargers from the purchase of new devices should be introduced with a common charger solution, MEPs say, stressing however that “any measure aiming at decoupling should avoid potentially higher prices for consumers”'.

    This would indicate that Apple should (possibly) provide a charger free of charge for EU users who request one. Seems a fair compromise.   
    The entire concept of the law has baffled me for several years, since they began working on it. Yes, they do want a common charger. How that will help anything, I don’t know. It makes no sense, because it’s one of those things that has competing specifications.

    so my watch, which has charged at 2.5 watts, has come with the 5 watt charger, which makes sense, because it’s already pretty small, and the price has dropped. It also doesn’t consume much energy. The new phones “need” bigger chargers because batteries have been getting larger, and so require longer charging times. Charging times seem to be a big deal in testing where phones are ranked on charging time with the charger they come with. So 18 watt, and larger chargers are supplied. Then we have tablets with larger batteries still, where even bigger chargers are advantageous. My 12.9 iPad Pro charges even faster with a 30 watt charger, though going to 50 watts doesn’t make much difference.

    so, what does this all mean? The EU has wanted a universal charger. What? So I need to get a 20 watt charger for my watch, or a 5 watt charger for my tablet? It’s nonsense, yet, that’s what they want, standardization. But how does anyone decide on what that means? First, they wanted all phones to use mini USB, which Apple objected to. So they let Apple use a converter plug on the cable. Then they decided to go USB C. So right there, they changed it up. What size charger? Does one size really fit all? Well, big chargers are downward compatible, but I don’t see how that solves the power saving goal, or the less expensive goal.

    it’s a typical EU morass of bureaucratic/political garbage, which the EU is so good at.
    GG1razorpitjdb8167
  • Reply 142 of 160
    XedXed Posts: 2,461member
    spheric said:
    spheric said:

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 
    Stop being an idiot
    Ah, insults, again. Always a good substitute for an argument. But, it might get you flagged.

    More apropos, how many of the "184" are in Phase 3 trials (assuming no one here would volunteer for a Russian or Chinese vaccine)? Six major ones: Five from the US, one from the UK.* For every one of those, it's the US taxpayer that has provided most of the at-risk funding.

    * There are two in China and one Russia, which I would not throw into the mix, hence my assumption.
    Your sources please? 

    Mine say that as of a week ago, there are a total of seven vaccines in Phase III trials currently, ONE of those being a US development, and another a joint development with the German BioNtech.
    Another 25 are in Phase I/II testing; four of those are American.  


    And yes, framing the current state of vaccine development as the whole world waiting to leech off American research is — apologies for the bluntness — idiotic. That’s not even an insult; it’s a gentle way of phrasing it. 

    For Chrissakes, the first PCR Test was developed in Germany by Christian Drosten. The whole developed world had working Covid tests when the US was still in denial and the only test available there had a 50% failure rate because the US refused to use anything not developed there! South Korea had already quelled infections by massive testing and contact tracing by the time the US even had a usable test to use. 

    There may be merit to the idea that the United States are at the forefront of medical advances in some areas, but using this particular situation to beat the jingoistic drums is literally the dumbest possible time since the development of the CAT scan by EMI-funded scientists in Britain fifty years ago. 

    LOL...  While that is all correct, as you pointed out, you don't even have to go to vaccines.   Just look at basic testing:   While many countries, perhaps most countries, were busy testing and tracing and removing the infectious from their streets, the U.S. is STILL bumbling around trying to come up with implement an effective test and testing strategy -- at least one that doesn't take a week before results are known.

    But, it's ok that 200,000 Americans died and millions unemployed because of the bumbling of the U.S. president and his healthcare team.   The stock market is at record highs (as is our deficit).
    Here you go again, with a post that reeks of ignorance (there should be, but there's no law against it). Assuming you're interested in actual facts, here's a quiz for you (I'll keep the list small):

    1) Which country in the list below has the lowest per-capita deaths?
    Belgium
    Spain
    Italy
    US
    UK

    2) Which country in the list below has the highest per-capita tests?
    Belgium
    Spain
    New Zealand 
    Norway
    US
    That's an incredibly odd list of countries. It's almost like you cherry picked to force a result.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 143 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    It’s a dull evolution on the Series 5. Which is fine, but I was hoping for a slightly flatter, less bulky & more contemporary feel to it. 
    When batteries get much better, some years from now, maybe that will be possible. If Apple ever comes out with a micro LED display, that might help, as they’re supposed to be more efficient. But don’t ho,d your breath. The only watches that have better battery life are either watches that aren’t full featured, or are noticeably larger than Apple’s. Apple’s are actually smaller than most. You can always buy the 40mm size instead of the 44. It’s noticeably smaller and a bit thinner.
    edited September 2020
  • Reply 144 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,508member
    JosephAU said:
    Still waiting for ecg in Australia! I wonder if oxygen sensor will work here or will Australia have to wait 5 or six years:/
    They said 100 countries. I imagine Australia is one of those.
  • Reply 145 of 160
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,527member
    ah, one update on the CPAP saga - I was wrong. I got billed for the legally mandated co-pay on the CPAP machine today. 

    10€. 

    I'm not complaining.  :D
    edited September 2020
  • Reply 146 of 160
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,527member
    spheric said:
    spheric said:

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 
    Stop being an idiot
    Ah, insults, again. Always a good substitute for an argument. But, it might get you flagged.

    More apropos, how many of the "184" are in Phase 3 trials (assuming no one here would volunteer for a Russian or Chinese vaccine)? Six major ones: Five from the US, one from the UK.* For every one of those, it's the US taxpayer that has provided most of the at-risk funding.

    * There are two in China and one Russia, which I would not throw into the mix, hence my assumption.
    Your sources please? 

    Mine say that as of a week ago, there are a total of seven vaccines in Phase III trials currently, ONE of those being a US development, and another a joint development with the German BioNtech.
    Another 25 are in Phase I/II testing; four of those are American.  


    And yes, framing the current state of vaccine development as the whole world waiting to leech off American research is — apologies for the bluntness — idiotic. That’s not even an insult; it’s a gentle way of phrasing it. 

    For Chrissakes, the first PCR Test was developed in Germany by Christian Drosten. The whole developed world had working Covid tests when the US was still in denial and the only test available there had a 50% failure rate because the US refused to use anything not developed there! South Korea had already quelled infections by massive testing and contact tracing by the time the US even had a usable test to use. 

    There may be merit to the idea that the United States are at the forefront of medical advances in some areas, but using this particular situation to beat the jingoistic drums is literally the dumbest possible time since the development of the CAT scan by EMI-funded scientists in Britain fifty years ago. 

    LOL...  While that is all correct, as you pointed out, you don't even have to go to vaccines.   Just look at basic testing:   While many countries, perhaps most countries, were busy testing and tracing and removing the infectious from their streets, the U.S. is STILL bumbling around trying to come up with implement an effective test and testing strategy -- at least one that doesn't take a week before results are known.

    But, it's ok that 200,000 Americans died and millions unemployed because of the bumbling of the U.S. president and his healthcare team.   The stock market is at record highs (as is our deficit).
    Here you go again, with a post that reeks of ignorance (there should be, but there's no law against it). Assuming you're interested in actual facts, here's a quiz for you (I'll keep the list small):

    1) Which country in the list below has the lowest per-capita deaths?
    Belgium
    Spain
    Italy
    US
    UK

    2) Which country in the list below has the highest per-capita tests?
    Belgium
    Spain
    New Zealand 
    Norway
    US
    Wait, what? The narrative is seriously shifting to "TESTS ARE CAUSING DEATHS"?

    In all seriousness: What the FUCK is the purpose of correlating testing with Covid-related deaths???? 

    What on earth is the argument here? That's just insane. 
    XedGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 147 of 160
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    And @GeorgeBMac not only did you earn a profit AND retirement doing what parents are forced to do now for free AND a still have to pay school taxes, but you also had the ability to go on strike and stop working if you didn’t like how much you were being paid. Something doctors and nurses cannot do. You’re nothing but a Robber Barron. You and Musk are exactly one in the same!  :D
    edited September 2020
  • Reply 148 of 160
    spheric said:
    spheric said:
    spheric said:

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 
    Stop being an idiot
    Ah, insults, again. Always a good substitute for an argument. But, it might get you flagged.

    More apropos, how many of the "184" are in Phase 3 trials (assuming no one here would volunteer for a Russian or Chinese vaccine)? Six major ones: Five from the US, one from the UK.* For every one of those, it's the US taxpayer that has provided most of the at-risk funding.

    * There are two in China and one Russia, which I would not throw into the mix, hence my assumption.
    Your sources please? 

    Mine say that as of a week ago, there are a total of seven vaccines in Phase III trials currently, ONE of those being a US development, and another a joint development with the German BioNtech.
    Another 25 are in Phase I/II testing; four of those are American.  


    And yes, framing the current state of vaccine development as the whole world waiting to leech off American research is — apologies for the bluntness — idiotic. That’s not even an insult; it’s a gentle way of phrasing it. 

    For Chrissakes, the first PCR Test was developed in Germany by Christian Drosten. The whole developed world had working Covid tests when the US was still in denial and the only test available there had a 50% failure rate because the US refused to use anything not developed there! South Korea had already quelled infections by massive testing and contact tracing by the time the US even had a usable test to use. 

    There may be merit to the idea that the United States are at the forefront of medical advances in some areas, but using this particular situation to beat the jingoistic drums is literally the dumbest possible time since the development of the CAT scan by EMI-funded scientists in Britain fifty years ago. 

    LOL...  While that is all correct, as you pointed out, you don't even have to go to vaccines.   Just look at basic testing:   While many countries, perhaps most countries, were busy testing and tracing and removing the infectious from their streets, the U.S. is STILL bumbling around trying to come up with implement an effective test and testing strategy -- at least one that doesn't take a week before results are known.

    But, it's ok that 200,000 Americans died and millions unemployed because of the bumbling of the U.S. president and his healthcare team.   The stock market is at record highs (as is our deficit).
    Here you go again, with a post that reeks of ignorance (there should be, but there's no law against it). Assuming you're interested in actual facts, here's a quiz for you (I'll keep the list small):

    1) Which country in the list below has the lowest per-capita deaths?
    Belgium
    Spain
    Italy
    US
    UK

    2) Which country in the list below has the highest per-capita tests?
    Belgium
    Spain
    New Zealand 
    Norway
    US
    Wait, what? The narrative is seriously shifting to "TESTS ARE CAUSING DEATHS"?

    In all seriousness: What the FUCK is the purpose of correlating testing with Covid-related deaths???? 

    What on earth is the argument here? That's just insane. 
    Ah, such equanimity!

    If you bothered to read the post I was responding to, you'd actually find the answer to your (silly, pointless) question.

    It never fails to amaze me, how few people actually read before they respond. That probably explains a lot of the posts in this thread...
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 149 of 160
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,520member
    Has anyone else found that only Apple seems to sell the blue watch with the new solo band. I can’t find anyone else that sells the watch with that option.
  • Reply 150 of 160
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,527member
    spheric said:
    spheric said:

    razorpit said:
    dewme said:
    dewme said:
    My Apple Watch 5 is less than a year old and I'm tempted to upgrade to get the blood oxygen sensor.

    Question: The article above mentions "sleep apnea" but the demonstrations of the oxygen sensor shown in the video today make the oxygen sensing feature look like an interactive process. This alone wouldn't really do much for sleep apnea sufferers because the greatest threat occurs when they are asleep. To be truly effective for sleep apnea detection the oxygen measurement should take place periodically and whenever the device detects the user has suddenly stopped breathing, is snoring, or is gasping for air. I didn't see anything in the video that talked about how this new sensor would potentially be employed for sleep apnea detection and monitoring.

    Like everything else health related on the Apple Watch, it is not a substitute for the advanced diagnostics that are performed in a clinical setting under the care of a doctor or medical professionals. But it is a tool that can be used to alert you to a potential issue that requires further attention by a medical professional. I'm wondering how this model applies to the detection and treatment of sleep apnea used in conjunction with the Apple Watch 6.
    Watch it again. They said it would take background readings throughout the day. 

    I’m upgrading from my 3 partially because I’m curious about sleep apnea. I just haven’t been able to figure if I want the new silicone loop or just the original sport band. 
    Thanks. That is good news. I keyed in on the on-demand part with the countdown timer on the video and missed the background sampling part.  

    I now see on the Apple.com website: "The remarkable new sensor and app in Apple Watch Series 6 allow you to take on-demand readings of your blood oxygen as well as background readings, day and night." That is a big deal.

    Background readings are vital. Triggering background readings when an "event" occurs would be very important as well, but we won't really know what the watch can until we see this feature in action in the real world. I'm sure Apple tested it, but I'm also sure that Apple does not want to overstate its capabilities or set expectations too high. Some other health monitor band/watch companies have made claims about sleep apnea detection using other sensors, like pulse rate, but these claims don't seem to result in product features, which I suppose due to liability concerns. Apple is very very careful about making any health related claims.

    Regarding at-home CPAP machines - the ones I've used do have a SIM card and, at times, a modem and telemetry, but the only thing they are recording is usage and pressure. It's mainly there to verify that you are using the machine. They don't have any other sensors. The reason ongoing oxygen monitoring is needed is because the pressure on the machine may have to be adjusted periodically, i.e., it may no longer be helping you. Getting everything set correctly requires an overnight sleep study, and these can cost thousands of dollars to administer. If the AW6 can tell you you may need a study it will serve a very important purpose.

    I agree with the value and benefit of event triggered monitoring -- such as regular or even continuous monitoring during aerobic activity -- especially during periods of elevated heart rate.    During a tempo run my heart rate can run well over 90% of its Max and knowing how my SpO2 levels did would be great information.
    ...  But, as you say, we don't know enough right now.  We'll have to wait for some hands-on testing to know if and how this works.

    As for CPAP machines and sleep:  I am hoping that eventually Apple can replace the need for most sleep studies which, unless you're having a known and significant problem seem pretty sketchy to me -- mostly self proclaimed experts who little about their specialty but who make lots of money selling their snake oil.   Before I trusted one of them I would want to loaded up with facts on what exactly was going on with my body.   As for them monitoring the CPAP machine, please remember that the healthcare industry cares nothing about your health and only about its profits.
    Everything is sketchy to you. CPAP machines work. Sleep studies are done so that they can diagnose your condition and treat it correctly. Type of treatment (machine, surgery) and settings are determined after a sleep study. Can an AppleWatch replace a sleep study? Not yet, but it can provide a lot of useful data to your doctor if everyone was on the same page. I was really hoping for a body temperature setting. That is needed for accurate sleep analysis.

    And by the way as soon as you apply your “they don’t care about you” philosophy to BOTH political parties, you’ll be truly woke.

    LOL.... If you think the healthcare industry cares more about your health than their profits you're probably gullible enough to actually believe anything DonTheCon says too!
    LOL, if you don't understand that the profit motive of the health care industry is what helps keep us healthy you're probably gullible enough to ...  [fill in the blanks]
    What nonsense. The healthcare billionaires make their money treating symptoms. US healthcare is not best in class, we spend more and get less; we have have worse morbidity than much of the west, and it's largely because of the profit-based model of hospitals and insurance companies. Treatment decisions aren't made between patient and doctor, they're made by insurance companies. That's nuts.

    https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019
    Yet, we manage to get by. The the rest of you live off of the R&D that we do here and the high-price island we provide for the cheap drugs you consume. (It amazes me, for instance, how you all keep whining we won't give you first dibs on the vaccine despite the fact that you're too cheap to front any risk-based $$ for it).

    Nonsense, indeed. 
    Stop being an idiot
    Ah, insults, again. Always a good substitute for an argument. But, it might get you flagged.

    More apropos, how many of the "184" are in Phase 3 trials (assuming no one here would volunteer for a Russian or Chinese vaccine)? Six major ones: Five from the US, one from the UK.* For every one of those, it's the US taxpayer that has provided most of the at-risk funding.

    * There are two in China and one Russia, which I would not throw into the mix, hence my assumption.
    Your sources please? 
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html

    I have no idea about the credibility of your source. Figures that you might cite some like that.

    You have no idea about the veracity of my source, but you figured I might cite some like that? What does that mean? That I might cite something you personally aren’t able to verify? If you look through the table, one of the columns lists which trial phase the vaccine is at, and since when (dates are DD.MM.YYYY), and the rightmost column lists ALL THE SOURCES FOR THE INFO, in some cases dozens, as links to the original publications (mostly in English). 

    At any rate, your list seems more current, as it lists nine developmental vaccines in advanced testing stages. 

    Oddly, only one of those is US-developed, and one other a joint venture with the German company BioNtech. 

    So thank you for confirming my claim, and updating it from 1.5 out of 7 to 1.5 out of 9. 
  • Reply 151 of 160


    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    Beats said:
    They briefly mentioned Covid-19. How accurate is this for DETECTING a new infection in users? I'm guessing they would have drove that point home if it were accurate.
    Low blood oxygen isn’t only related to COVID-19, they started on this feature long before that was even a thing. Not to mention FDA regulations, you can’t “detect” a virus based on a singular symptom.

    I figured. Just thought Tim Cook would go overdrive on engineering to get it on the market ASAP.

    The FDA would definitely hate any "detection" but I thought they could alert you on the possibility like a notification saying "You are showing symptoms of Covid-19. Tap here for details and recommended measures to take" To avoid violating laws.
    That statement would be illegal. You cannot allow people to self diagnose disease with consumer electronics. Not sure how else to explain this. 

    How is that a diagnosis?
    “You are showing symptoms of Covid-19.” is a diagnosis. It could literally be any other reason their O2 levels are low. How is this not clear?
    It's one of many possible symptoms.

    Read up.
    No shit, Sherlock. I'm saying you can't have the Watch determining that low O2 is a result of the user having COVID, which is impossible to determine.
    Yeah, no shit. You're having (as the other guy, @Xed I think, is) trouble understanding basic phrases like "many possible...".

    Whatever.
    You're having trouble understanding that telling someone that a biometric reading is indicative of a specific disease when it could be indicative of any number other completely unrelated things is a) dangerous and b) illegal. 

    Whatever, yourself.
    "Indicative"? Don't attribute to me words I didn't use. That's plainly lying (since most people don't read the whole thread). Clever, but cheap. Or, as I said before, you have trouble reading some simple, basic text I wrote.

    For what it's worth, you may wish to search for the terms "silent hypoxia and covid" from a reputable site(such as, say, webmd.com). It might be enlightening.

    So, all I've got so far from you all are insults, ad hominems, and lying. Oh, and fancy-sounding (but irrelevant) Latin, non sequiturs as it were. Not one decent argument (apart from which, I am still wondering what it is that we're arguing about.... but at this point, who cares, I am along for the ride...)
    Where’s the lie? Apple *cannot* have the Watch tell people they have symptoms of Covid, even if it detects a potential symptom. I don’t know why you continue to argue otherwise, but I’ll drop it because I’d rather to bash my head against a wall. 
    XedGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 152 of 160
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,527member
    It’s so bizarre: detecting hypoxia is extremely useful, as it’s a potentially dangerous condition that can indicate a number of serious diseases. 

    One of those diseases is Covid-19, and it’s currently one of the more common conditions to look out for. 

    Discovering hypoxia is a good reason to see a physician immediately. 

    How is this grounds for an internet fight? Is this in any way in dispute? I’m not aware of any angle where this would be in doubt. 
    edited September 2020 Xed
  • Reply 153 of 160
    spheric said:

    How is this grounds for an internet fight? Is this in any way in dispute? I’m not aware of any angle where this would be in doubt. 
    You apparently didn't read the thread very closely.
  • Reply 154 of 160
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,527member
    spheric said:

    How is this grounds for an internet fight? Is this in any way in dispute? I’m not aware of any angle where this would be in doubt. 
    You apparently didn't read the thread very closely.
    I admit just skimming over what seemed to devolve into an increasingly derailed slagfest, only commenting when individual statements had become completely unhinged. 
  • Reply 155 of 160
    spheric said:
    spheric said:

    How is this grounds for an internet fight? Is this in any way in dispute? I’m not aware of any angle where this would be in doubt. 
    You apparently didn't read the thread very closely.
    I admit just skimming over what seemed to devolve into an increasingly derailed slagfest, only commenting when individual statements had become completely unhinged. 
    There are very specific reasons Apple says this feature is not intended for medical use. There are additional reasons why you'd extend that to not have a device suggest you have a disease based on a biometric that may have nothing to do with that disease whatsoever. There are laws and regulations around all of this kind of thing, which by acknowledging these realities apparently I'm "unhinged" by your standards, and these are all the "angles where this would be in doubt" as you put it. So while YES your logic makes sense on a base level, there are legit reasons Apple cannot or will not do this, which is all I'm saying. 
  • Reply 156 of 160
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,527member
    spheric said:
    spheric said:

    How is this grounds for an internet fight? Is this in any way in dispute? I’m not aware of any angle where this would be in doubt. 
    You apparently didn't read the thread very closely.
    I admit just skimming over what seemed to devolve into an increasingly derailed slagfest, only commenting when individual statements had become completely unhinged. 
    There are very specific reasons Apple says this feature is not intended for medical use. There are additional reasons why you'd extend that to not have a device suggest you have a disease based on a biometric that may have nothing to do with that disease whatsoever. There are laws and regulations around all of this kind of thing, which by acknowledging these realities apparently I'm "unhinged" by your standards, and these are all the "angles where this would be in doubt" as you put it. So while YES your logic makes sense on a base level, there are legit reasons Apple cannot or will not do this, which is all I'm saying. 
    Of course! But that whole train of thought is a ridiculous non-argument. In no way whatsoever does Apple anywhere imply that the watch determining hypoxia is equivalent to a Covid diagnosis. 

    It can be indicative of a serious medical condition — be it COPD, apnoea, Covid, anaemia, or a number of other possibilities I'm unaware of — and definitely requires medical attention. 

    Who has claimed anything beyond that? 
  • Reply 157 of 160
    XedXed Posts: 2,461member
    spheric said:
    spheric said:
    spheric said:

    How is this grounds for an internet fight? Is this in any way in dispute? I’m not aware of any angle where this would be in doubt. 
    You apparently didn't read the thread very closely.
    I admit just skimming over what seemed to devolve into an increasingly derailed slagfest, only commenting when individual statements had become completely unhinged. 
    There are very specific reasons Apple says this feature is not intended for medical use. There are additional reasons why you'd extend that to not have a device suggest you have a disease based on a biometric that may have nothing to do with that disease whatsoever. There are laws and regulations around all of this kind of thing, which by acknowledging these realities apparently I'm "unhinged" by your standards, and these are all the "angles where this would be in doubt" as you put it. So while YES your logic makes sense on a base level, there are legit reasons Apple cannot or will not do this, which is all I'm saying. 
    Of course! But that whole train of thought is a ridiculous non-argument. In no way whatsoever does Apple anywhere imply that the watch determining hypoxia is equivalent to a Covid diagnosis. 

    It can be indicative of a serious medical condition — be it COPD, apnoea, Covid, anaemia, or a number of other possibilities I'm unaware of — and definitely requires medical attention. 

    Who has claimed anything beyond that? 
    Anant said that apple should tell you you could have COVID-19 if your O2 is low. 
  • Reply 158 of 160
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,527member
    Xed said:
    spheric said:
    spheric said:
    spheric said:

    How is this grounds for an internet fight? Is this in any way in dispute? I’m not aware of any angle where this would be in doubt. 
    You apparently didn't read the thread very closely.
    I admit just skimming over what seemed to devolve into an increasingly derailed slagfest, only commenting when individual statements had become completely unhinged. 
    There are very specific reasons Apple says this feature is not intended for medical use. There are additional reasons why you'd extend that to not have a device suggest you have a disease based on a biometric that may have nothing to do with that disease whatsoever. There are laws and regulations around all of this kind of thing, which by acknowledging these realities apparently I'm "unhinged" by your standards, and these are all the "angles where this would be in doubt" as you put it. So while YES your logic makes sense on a base level, there are legit reasons Apple cannot or will not do this, which is all I'm saying. 
    Of course! But that whole train of thought is a ridiculous non-argument. In no way whatsoever does Apple anywhere imply that the watch determining hypoxia is equivalent to a Covid diagnosis. 

    It can be indicative of a serious medical condition — be it COPD, apnoea, Covid, anaemia, or a number of other possibilities I'm unaware of — and definitely requires medical attention. 

    Who has claimed anything beyond that? 
    Anant said that apple should tell you you could have COVID-19 if your O2 is low. 
    Actually, Beats appears to have said that. Anant jumped in to say that because hypoxia can be one possible symptom of Covid, Apple would be safe to point that out. 

    Obviously (well, to me at least), it would be utterly insane to do that. But the ensuing discussion still doesn't make any sense. 
    edited September 2020
  • Reply 159 of 160
    XedXed Posts: 2,461member
    spheric said:
    Xed said:
    spheric said:
    spheric said:
    spheric said:

    How is this grounds for an internet fight? Is this in any way in dispute? I’m not aware of any angle where this would be in doubt. 
    You apparently didn't read the thread very closely.
    I admit just skimming over what seemed to devolve into an increasingly derailed slagfest, only commenting when individual statements had become completely unhinged. 
    There are very specific reasons Apple says this feature is not intended for medical use. There are additional reasons why you'd extend that to not have a device suggest you have a disease based on a biometric that may have nothing to do with that disease whatsoever. There are laws and regulations around all of this kind of thing, which by acknowledging these realities apparently I'm "unhinged" by your standards, and these are all the "angles where this would be in doubt" as you put it. So while YES your logic makes sense on a base level, there are legit reasons Apple cannot or will not do this, which is all I'm saying. 
    Of course! But that whole train of thought is a ridiculous non-argument. In no way whatsoever does Apple anywhere imply that the watch determining hypoxia is equivalent to a Covid diagnosis. 

    It can be indicative of a serious medical condition — be it COPD, apnoea, Covid, anaemia, or a number of other possibilities I'm unaware of — and definitely requires medical attention. 

    Who has claimed anything beyond that? 
    Anant said that apple should tell you you could have COVID-19 if your O2 is low. 
    Actually, Beats appears to have said that. Anant jumped in to say that because hypoxia can be one possible symptom of Covid, Apple would be safe to point that out. 

    Obviously (well, to me at least), it would be utterly insane to do that. But the ensuing discussion still doesn't make any sense. 
    My mistake if Beats said it first. I mostly remember her for repeatedly defending the most alarmist WebMD-type assumption for a single symptom.
  • Reply 160 of 160
    spheric said:
    Xed said:
    spheric said:
    spheric said:
    spheric said:

    How is this grounds for an internet fight? Is this in any way in dispute? I’m not aware of any angle where this would be in doubt. 
    You apparently didn't read the thread very closely.
    I admit just skimming over what seemed to devolve into an increasingly derailed slagfest, only commenting when individual statements had become completely unhinged. 
    There are very specific reasons Apple says this feature is not intended for medical use. There are additional reasons why you'd extend that to not have a device suggest you have a disease based on a biometric that may have nothing to do with that disease whatsoever. There are laws and regulations around all of this kind of thing, which by acknowledging these realities apparently I'm "unhinged" by your standards, and these are all the "angles where this would be in doubt" as you put it. So while YES your logic makes sense on a base level, there are legit reasons Apple cannot or will not do this, which is all I'm saying. 
    Of course! But that whole train of thought is a ridiculous non-argument. In no way whatsoever does Apple anywhere imply that the watch determining hypoxia is equivalent to a Covid diagnosis. 

    It can be indicative of a serious medical condition — be it COPD, apnoea, Covid, anaemia, or a number of other possibilities I'm unaware of — and definitely requires medical attention. 

    Who has claimed anything beyond that? 
    Anant said that apple should tell you you could have COVID-19 if your O2 is low. 
    Actually, Beats appears to have said that. Anant jumped in to say that because hypoxia can be one possible symptom of Covid, Apple would be safe to point that out. 

    Obviously (well, to me at least), it would be utterly insane to do that. But the ensuing discussion still doesn't make any sense. 
    Sounds like it makes sense to you. ¯\(°_o)/¯ 
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