WWDC delayed for Panther and 970?

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  • Reply 161 of 169
    netromacnetromac Posts: 863member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Rhumgod

    I guess the point I was trying to make, and obviously didn't do a very good job at it, was that when OS X is solidly 64-bit and other companies are introducing competing 64-bit apps, I would think a software company would not want to be labeled as "behind the times", whether the app sees a performance gain or not.



    That was my point behind the 16-bit to 32-bit advance as well. I guess I clicked submit before the thought was clearly written out. An editor I am not alas....




    I don't think many apps are going to jump the 64-bit ship very soon. There are still a lot of 32 bit systems out there, and I don't think most software companies want to bring two versions of their programs just to not be "behind the times". It's simple economics.

    In areas were 64 bit computing will add obvious advantages, I think we'll see a quicker transition.
  • Reply 162 of 169
    charlesscharless Posts: 301member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Placebo

    Naw, it should feature a Panther ripping a Dell workstation into many, teenie, ickle pieces, and have the dell's guts pouring out onto the floor, all bllody and...I'll stop now. Either that, or something with a Pixar tie-in...



    Put a bunch of Dells in the middle of the desert... and then drop a nuke on them.
  • Reply 163 of 169
    netromacnetromac Posts: 863member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by CharlesS

    Put a bunch of Dells in the middle of the desert... and then drop a nuke on them.



    Then: the sound dies - total silence - white writing on a black screen, a deep voice speaks:



    Apple God(tm): supernatural power at your fingertips
  • Reply 164 of 169
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Rhumgod

    Remember though that video is simply frames. A crapload of frames, but frames nonetheless. It is my understanding that when rendering such things, that the 4GB limit isn't hit. A frame of video is only a couple MB so I am not sure that is necessarily the case. I could be wrong though. Anyone know for sure?



    This is looking at things from only a playback perspective.



    While the final frame size isn't that large, all of the ingredients needed to render animated scenes can be mind bogglingly huge. Really really really huge. If the scene involves a texture mapped 3D world with a distant horizon, the verticies calculations alone can be RAM intensive. Add in the textures, lighting, reflections, translucency, depth of field, etc, and RAM requirements go through the roof.



    Standard video production can eat through gigabytes of RAM on even short clips. Multiple uncompressed streams of video can be composited in real time, but only if you have enough RAM. Add in time-based motion correction, skewed overlays, color adjustment, and any number of video effects... its real easy to need more than the ammount of RAM available through 32 bit addressing.



    Uncompressed NTSC video is 27MB per second. Non linear video editing can easily involve hundreds of clips each of which can be many minutes long. Simply loading all of these clips at once is impossible for the projects and hardware that many editors are working on today. This is why they spend tens of thousands of dollars on custom hardware.



    64bit addressing will be huge... if you edit/produce video or cinematic animation for a living.



    Me? I spend all day in a plain text editor and could probably get away with 16 bit addressing
  • Reply 165 of 169
    vinney57vinney57 Posts: 1,162member
    dfiler is right. Video compositing would gain greatly from 64bit addressing. One of the creators of Shake worked on Titanic and a scene would frequently have up to 300 seperate layers of hi-def footage, masks, animation etc. Now Shake is very good at managing all this stuff in and out of memory using proxies and so forth but the more that can be loaded uncompressed into real memory the better. Film people will happy to pay the required moolah if it saves days in post-production.



    Its also interesting how audio composition and post-pro is going. The move to doing everything inside the computer is unstoppable and that requires two things: For virtual instruments that re-create sounds and effects using pure maths processor speed is vital, however for the re-creation of an orchestra say, using samples real memory is required. At the moment disk streaming is used but there is a limit as to how far that can go without significant real memory. I can easily envisage breaking the 4GB barrier on an orchestral score.
  • Reply 166 of 169
    programmerprogrammer Posts: 3,457member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by vinney57

    dfiler is right. Video compositing would gain greatly from 64bit addressing. One of the creators of Shake worked on Titanic and a scene would frequently have up to 300 seperate layers of hi-def footage, masks, animation etc. Now Shake is very good at managing all this stuff in and out of memory using proxies and so forth but the more that can be loaded uncompressed into real memory the better. Film people will happy to pay the required moolah if it saves days in post-production.



    Its also interesting how audio composition and post-pro is going. The move to doing everything inside the computer is unstoppable and that requires two things: For virtual instruments that re-create sounds and effects using pure maths processor speed is vital, however for the re-creation of an orchestra say, using samples real memory is required. At the moment disk streaming is used but there is a limit as to how far that can go without significant real memory. I can easily envisage breaking the 4GB barrier on an orchestral score.




    Yeah, the really high end apps will benefit from huge tracts of RAM and this alone might explain why Apple has been buying up all of the media-related companies -- they want to build 64-bit PPC versions of the software and blow everybody away with its capabilities. If they could wander around Hollywood with such a machine and prototype software and demonstrate it to editors and compositors I'm sure people would be writing cheques on the spot. It'll put a dent in SGI and Sun's businesses.



    I'm also interested to see how much they'll benefit from high end GPUs like the Radeon 9700 and GeForceFX which are capable for the first time of doing high precision compositing.
  • Reply 167 of 169
    Quote:

    Originally posted by NETROMac

    Then: the sound dies - total silence - white writing on a black screen, a deep voice speaks:



    Apple God(tm): supernatural power at your fingertips




    And slowly Steve's face starts appearing;



    "Think Diffrent!" With a mean face....!
  • Reply 168 of 169
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member
    THINK DIFFERENT, GODDAMIT! YES. NOW !
  • Reply 169 of 169
    vinney57vinney57 Posts: 1,162member
    Quote:

    I'm also interested to see how much they'll benefit from high end GPUs like the Radeon 9700 and GeForceFX which are capable for the first time of doing high precision compositing.



    Quartz Extreme is of course a compositing environment; two years ago at WWDC Schiller demo'ed a live hi-def composite in the QE test environment. I assume Apple will be rolling this sort of capability into QE runtime and Quicktime. Quite what that means I don't know; probably speedier Shake and FCP composites, but it should at least mean some wild and wacky user interface enhancements in the future (and some unique gaming possibilites?)
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