Craig Federighi blasts Mac security to prop up iOS App Store

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  • Reply 81 of 93
    PezaPeza Posts: 197member
    thedba said:
    Beats said:
    I’m disappointed Apple didn’t roll out an App Store like iOS.

    People called me different names for suggesting the new M1 Mac software should be treated like iPhones App Store and said “PCs have always allowed software via web” as if moving forward was a bad idea.
    Actually they did, with the Mac App Store. Not very successful as many apps outside of Apple’s own, weren’t  there for various reasons, the main one being Apple’s 30% cut. 
    Exactly, that's all Apple wants, they really don't care too much about security and privacy, they may offer it to a degree. But that 30% cut is the real trophy for them with a closed ecosystem. But on PC's that won't work because their market share in the space is single digits. Companies will just abandon Mac OS if they try to pull it as displayed before as you stated.
    elijahg
  • Reply 82 of 93
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 736member
    thedba said:
    Beats said:
    I’m disappointed Apple didn’t roll out an App Store like iOS.

    People called me different names for suggesting the new M1 Mac software should be treated like iPhones App Store and said “PCs have always allowed software via web” as if moving forward was a bad idea.
    Actually they did, with the Mac App Store. Not very successful as many apps outside of Apple’s own, weren’t  there for various reasons, the main one being Apple’s 30% cut. 
    Source for that?  Almost all the big apps are there - Microsoft Office, AutoCAD, OmniGroup, BBEdit, etc.

    The only reasons I have heard developers claim they are not using the macOS App Store are restrictions/sandboxing (think iOS App Store restrictions) which do not allow the app functionality they want to provide & it's not easy to offer trials or upgrade pricing.
    watto_cobrakillroy
  • Reply 83 of 93
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 736member
    Beats said:

    thedba said:
    Beats said:
    I’m disappointed Apple didn’t roll out an App Store like iOS.

    People called me different names for suggesting the new M1 Mac software should be treated like iPhones App Store and said “PCs have always allowed software via web” as if moving forward was a bad idea.
    Actually they did, with the Mac App Store. Not very successful as many apps outside of Apple’s own, weren’t  there for various reasons, the main one being Apple’s 30% cut. 

    MacOS allows multiple app stores.

    I would love if Apple gave more incentive to support the Mac App Store exclusively so we can have one giant pot to choose safe apps from. Apple dropped the ball on having one safe App Store with the M1 launch which would have been a huge incentive. Now that developers are in Apple’s new process, it’s too late.
    You keep saying Apple should have placed restrictions on macOS computers with the M1 - what specifically about the M1 makes you think now would be a good time to change?

    If Apple decided to restrict macOS on the M1, that would be the death of macOS.  PERIOD.

    macOS computers are not iOS/iPadOS devices - different devices for different purposes.  And some of those needs/purposes are not possible on even a new/current M1 iPad.
    muthuk_vanalingamasdasdelijahgwatto_cobra
  • Reply 84 of 93
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 736member
    aderutter said:
    I do think Apple should lock MacOS down to a single Apple provided Mac app-store, but they would likely need to reduce the commission to a much lower figure to appease the big developers and not hurt the platform. Then again, they could even maybe not take a commission at all just like they don’t charge for MacOS upgrades nowadays. 
    What "big developers" are not in the macOS App Store?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 85 of 93
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 736member

    Federighi also contrasted the iPhone with the Mac by saying that the smartphone is much more personal, typically contains sensitive data, and has features like a camera and a microphone. All of these factors make iPhones "very attractive targets."
    I have to quibble with Mr Federighi here. With iCloud, all your data is available on all your devices, and there are very few Apple computing products that do not come with a camera and microphone installed - and I believe there are none that don't come with a microphone (although that depends how you classify the AppleTV).

    His overall point still stands.
    No Mac mini or Mac Pro (of any generation) has ever had a camera or microphone.  Desktop models simply don't have them.
    watto_cobrakillroy
  • Reply 86 of 93
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 736member
    thedba said:
    chasm said:
    thedba said:
    Actually they did, with the Mac App Store. Not very successful as many apps outside of Apple’s own, weren’t  there for various reasons, the main one being Apple’s 30% cut. 
    Woah, let me stop you right there. You don't get to spew easily-disproven, nonsensical bullshit here and not get called out for it.

    While specific figures are not available for the Mac App Store, it is by far the most successful of any marketplace for Mac Apps, and offers a catalog of at least 1.5 million apps (and that's a stat from more than two years ago) -- the largest single repository of apps for the Mac platform by far. Nearly every major developer writing apps for the Mac has a presence on the Mac App Store, and consumers generally prefer to download from the Mac App Store because of the incredibly low risk of malware concerns, that the app has been tested by Apple, and the store's easy refund policy if you change your mind.

    Developers can offer their wares at prices that include Apple's cut on the App Store, or they can offer it independently (which is generally MORE expensive/time-consuming than 30 percent of the purchase price unless you are a large and very successful developer), or they can remember back to when software was sold in boxes in stores and both the store AND the distributors took substantial cuts that would usually total in excess of 50-70 percent. Developers can offer a product in the MAS and also encourage users to buy it in other ways (SetApp, directly, etc), but most users enjoy the convenience of the Mac App Store.. Building and maintaining a secure website that operates in every market worldwide, provides world-class analytics, with iron-clad payment security and an easy refund policy is not cheap or easy, me bucko -- try it sometime!

    Your comment shows off your ignorance. Until you can provide some evidence to support your BS, maybe sit down and suck your thumb.


    Who pee'd in your Corn Flakes?

    You want examples of apps not present in the Mac App store?
    1) Citrix Receiver: Even though "Citrix SSO" is there it simply doesn't work. So I had to download "Citrix receiver" outside the Mac App store.

    2) UltraEdit/UltraCompare suite: I have projects using this suite on both Windows and Mac. Gotta get it from outside.

    3) FortiClient VPN:  Not there. I have two clients whom I connect to using this particular VPN.

    4) SQL Developer for Oracle: Nope not there either.

    5) Cisco AnyConnect VPN:  A client is set up with this and he had to send me the dmg file through his Cisco account.

    That's just five examples. There are others.  

    Developer tools & shitty apps that don't follow Apple's developer guidelines or security (looking at you Cisco & FortClient).  

    Yep - those generally can't be in the App Store.

    For UltraEdit/UltraCompare - they are not quality Mac apps.  I own them, but fall back to BBEdit.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 87 of 93
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 736member
    killroy said:
    thedba said:
    Beats said:
    I’m disappointed Apple didn’t roll out an App Store like iOS.

    People called me different names for suggesting the new M1 Mac software should be treated like iPhones App Store and said “PCs have always allowed software via web” as if moving forward was a bad idea.
    Actually they did, with the Mac App Store. Not very successful as many apps outside of Apple’s own, weren’t  there for various reasons, the main one being Apple’s 30% cut. 

    Drivers for cards like fiber optics you will not find in the app sore. You will not find all of Adobe or Avid there to. A lot of Pro broadcast apps are not in the store.
    Hardware drivers are not "apps" (even though some crappy hardware packages installs apps you probably don't want or need).  

    You provide no evidence to support that some Adobe & Avid titles are not in macOS App Store due to the 30% cut - that was the poster's argument.
    edited May 2021 muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 88 of 93
    Well implemented Sandoboxing (like in iOS) does not cripple security, it is the other way around - one of the basis for its security.

    Any software downloaded from an Apple Verified and Authorized 3rd-party app store will still have to go through the hurdles of getting its mic, cam, keyboard, etc - whatever the app needs to use - all authorized. we already have to do this for Apple App Store.

    Apple has the capacity to secure 3rd-party App Stores just like it secures its own interaction with ios. same level of security. it could be that it would cost a lot to implement it but it doesnt. this is strictly a comercial decision and this will likely keep showing in the hearings.

    disclaimer: this all is based on the notion that one is responsible for using ones biometrics and that we only authorize what we understand. i take responsibility for my mistakes and choose to not take responsibility for others mistakes as the im not their parent or big sibling.
  • Reply 89 of 93
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,314member
    This is such a dumb, dishonest headline.  He didn't blast anything, he was asked a question and he answered it, explaining the situation in honest terms.
    edited May 2021 muthuk_vanalingamthtasdasdwatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 90 of 93
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,544member
    mattinoz said:
    There is a famous science fiction story called "The Humanoid Touch" by Jack Williamson in which millions of well meaning androids land on Earth and smother all humans with care. They make humans so safe that they are incapable of doing anything that involves even the smallest amount of risk. This is what Craig Federighi wants to do for Mac users. I have been using MacOS for decades now and have never had a serious problem with malware of any kind but in Craig's mind there is still a tiny chance I could download a bad app and so keeps adding layer after layer of security which serves mainly to break the apps I need to do my job. I am a software developer. There are exactly zero software development apps that run natively on iOS, you know, because they are too risky. There is a very simple way to make both MacOS and iOS 100% safe. Just get rid of all third party apps.
    Can you find a quote from Craig to suggest this is his thinking?
    Specially that Apple shouldn't be building platform for others to value add.

    I don't think he has. I recall Craig has said this himself at WWDC talk show maybe by certainly other times.  Apple's mission is to make life better or in other word to be a platform for all their customers to value add. 

    He seems, as other have already said, macOS isn't as secure, there are reasons it can be better and other reasons it will never catch up to iOS. 
    I am simply observing Apple's actions under Craig's leadership. Over time it has become more restrictive and harder to get basic work done. Meanwhile iOS is flat out impossible to use for many jobs due to Apple's restrictions. Users do need security but they also need to have control over it and make some of the decisions if they need to.
    I'd love to use an iPad for hardware diagnostics and for basic in-the-field fixes for custom software. The M1 is plenty powerful enough. But due to iOS restrictions I can't. To me, having an M1 with iPad OS is like having a V12 on a unicycle with a flat tyre.
    muthuk_vanalingamasdasd
  • Reply 91 of 93
    killroykillroy Posts: 171member
    nicholfd said:
    aderutter said:
    I do think Apple should lock MacOS down to a single Apple provided Mac app-store, but they would likely need to reduce the commission to a much lower figure to appease the big developers and not hurt the platform. Then again, they could even maybe not take a commission at all just like they don’t charge for MacOS upgrades nowadays. 
    What "big developers" are not in the macOS App Store?

    Avid, ATTO, Ross Video, Facilis, Telestream, StorageDNA and there's more.
  • Reply 92 of 93
    killroykillroy Posts: 171member
    nicholfd said:
    killroy said:
    thedba said:
    Beats said:
    I’m disappointed Apple didn’t roll out an App Store like iOS.

    People called me different names for suggesting the new M1 Mac software should be treated like iPhones App Store and said “PCs have always allowed software via web” as if moving forward was a bad idea.
    Actually they did, with the Mac App Store. Not very successful as many apps outside of Apple’s own, weren’t  there for various reasons, the main one being Apple’s 30% cut. 

    Drivers for cards like fiber optics you will not find in the app sore. You will not find all of Adobe or Avid there to. A lot of Pro broadcast apps are not in the store.
    Hardware drivers are not "apps" (even though some crappy hardware packages installs apps you probably don't want or need).  

    You provide no evidence to support that some Adobe & Avid titles are not in macOS App Store due to the 30% cut - that was the poster's argument.

    You do need an app to flash and manage the driver.  My point is a lot of apps are not in the app store because those apps support hardware not made by Apple but are used in a MacPro.
    edited May 2021 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 93 of 93
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,558member
    AppleZulu said:
    gatorguy said:
    A bit harsh title for this article. Sorry but there is more malware on the Mac than iOS. 

    No Apple should not lock the Mac to only one App Store. Apple would be rightfully attacked by users, developers and antitrust. Did people forget about the conspiracy stories about gatekeeper? 

    No iOS should not allow other app stores, without the ability to turn them off. Malware will vastly increase with other app stores. It isn’t just camera and microphone, but also movement, location, passwords, iCloud, WiFi, and fingerprint security. How is any other App Store going to keep that safe?
    Because it still has to run on the very secure iOS?
    That's not the same thing, and that's the point of Federighi's testimony. iOS was built from the ground up as a secure, internet-connected operating system, and when the App Store was introduced, it was a component of that secure paradigm, unlike any previous operating system's third-party app management process. The Mac predated all that, and you can't easily put the genie back in the bottle. They do a lot to make MacOS secure, but it's not as secure as iOS is with its single, proprietary app store to manage all third-party applications. Forcing them to break up that system will inherently degrade security and take away the choice currently available to consumers in being able to buy an iOS device that meets current security standards.

    I totally agree -- that was well said.

    I suspect though that to some degree Apple will be putting that genie back into his bottle as they, over a period of years, integrate MacOS into the wider Apple ecosystem.

    Right now, it's sort of an outlier in the world of Apple.
    I agree. Slowly but surely, I think the Mac App Store will be the only way to download Mac apps. 
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