Apple applied list of terms censored in China to Taiwan & Hong Kong

14567810»

Comments

  • Reply 181 of 195
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
  • Reply 182 of 195
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,342member
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?
    ronn
  • Reply 183 of 195
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?

    It doesn't work at all for me -- I don't live there.   But it's obviously worked extremely well for the Chinese people.  They've gone from extreme poverty to the fastest growing nation on earth -- and one that has you terrified they will soon take over as the world's leading economy.

    The difference in Communist ideology from that of, say, the American right is that their ideology is focused entirely on improving the lives of their people.  That's not to say that they will always do it well.   But, for now, they obviously have been.  The Corona Virus is a prime example:  they managed it so that neither their people nor their economy died -- like ours did and are still doing.

    As in private and corporate life, it always comes down to doing the right things -- or not.

    But, despite one disaster after another over the past 50 years -- from Vietnam, to the demise of our basic industries, to the Great Recession, to Iraq, COVID and Afghanistan we continue to tell ourselves the "WE ARE THE BEST!   WE ARE #1 !"


    edited August 2021
  • Reply 184 of 195
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?

    China may hold the U.S. accountable for its human rights violations in Afghanistan.
    "The US and its allies' 20 years of embroilment in Afghanistan under the banner of counter-terrorism has failed to bring the country its much-needed peace and development, but only chaos, homelessness and misery. An estimated 75,000 Afghan military and police officers perished in direct war deaths and an additional 71,334 civilians died, Fortune reported on August 19. Between 2016 and 2020, nearly 1,600 children were killed in NATO-led airstrikes, according to Al Jazeera. As many as 6 million were forced to flee their homes since 2001, Business Insider reported on August 17. "

    Illustration Liu RuiGT


  • Reply 185 of 195
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,342member
    tmay said:
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?

    China may hold the U.S. accountable for its human rights violations in Afghanistan.
    "The US and its allies' 20 years of embroilment in Afghanistan under the banner of counter-terrorism has failed to bring the country its much-needed peace and development, but only chaos, homelessness and misery. An estimated 75,000 Afghan military and police officers perished in direct war deaths and an additional 71,334 civilians died, Fortune reported on August 19. Between 2016 and 2020, nearly 1,600 children were killed in NATO-led airstrikes, according to Al Jazeera. As many as 6 million were forced to flee their homes since 2001, Business Insider reported on August 17. "

    Illustration Liu RuiGT


    https://www.umass.edu/rso/fretibet/education.html


    The peaceful buddhist country of Tibet was invaded by Communists China in 1949. Since that time, over 1.2 million out of 6 Tibetans have been killed, over 6000 monastaries have been destroyed, and thousands of TIbetans have been imprisoned. ... In some Tibetan provinces, Chinese settlers outnumber Tibetans 7 to 1.

    1. The peaceful buddhist country of Tibet was invaded by Communists China in 1949. Since that time, over 1.2 million out of 6 Tibetans have been killed, over 6000 monastaries have been destroyed, and thousands of TIbetans have been imprisoned. 

    2. In Tibet today, there is no freedom of speech, religion, or press and arbitrary dissidents continue. 

    3. The Dalai Lama, Tibet's political and spiritual leader, fled to India in 1959. He now lives among over 100,000 other Tibetan refugees and their government in exile. 

    4. Forced abortion, sterilization of Tibetan women and the transfer of low income Chinese citizens threaten the survival of Tibet's unique culture. In some Tibetan provinces, Chinese settlers outnumber Tibetans 7 to 1. 

    5. Within China itself, massive human rights abuses continue. It is estimated that there up to twenty million Chinese citizens working in prison camps. 

    6. Most of the Tibetan plataeu lies above 14,000 feet. Tibet is the source of five of Asia's greatest rivers, which over 2 billion people depend upon. Since 1959, the Chinese government estimates that they have removed over $54 billion worth of timber. Over 80% of their forests have been destroyed, and large amoutns nuclear and toxic waste have been disposed of in Tibet. 

    7. Despite these facts and figures, the US government and US corporations continue to support China economically. This shows their blatant lack of respect for these critical issues of political and religious freedom and human rights. 


    Whataboutism is fraught with peril


    ronn
  • Reply 186 of 195
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?

    China may hold the U.S. accountable for its human rights violations in Afghanistan.
    "The US and its allies' 20 years of embroilment in Afghanistan under the banner of counter-terrorism has failed to bring the country its much-needed peace and development, but only chaos, homelessness and misery. An estimated 75,000 Afghan military and police officers perished in direct war deaths and an additional 71,334 civilians died, Fortune reported on August 19. Between 2016 and 2020, nearly 1,600 children were killed in NATO-led airstrikes, according to Al Jazeera. As many as 6 million were forced to flee their homes since 2001, Business Insider reported on August 17. "

    Illustration Liu RuiGT


    https://www.umass.edu/rso/fretibet/education.html


    The peaceful buddhist country of Tibet was invaded by Communists China in 1949. Since that time, over 1.2 million out of 6 Tibetans have been killed, over 6000 monastaries have been destroyed, and thousands of TIbetans have been imprisoned. ... In some Tibetan provinces, Chinese settlers outnumber Tibetans 7 to 1.

    1. The peaceful buddhist country of Tibet was invaded by Communists China in 1949. Since that time, over 1.2 million out of 6 Tibetans have been killed, over 6000 monastaries have been destroyed, and thousands of TIbetans have been imprisoned. 

    2. In Tibet today, there is no freedom of speech, religion, or press and arbitrary dissidents continue. 

    3. The Dalai Lama, Tibet's political and spiritual leader, fled to India in 1959. He now lives among over 100,000 other Tibetan refugees and their government in exile. 

    4. Forced abortion, sterilization of Tibetan women and the transfer of low income Chinese citizens threaten the survival of Tibet's unique culture. In some Tibetan provinces, Chinese settlers outnumber Tibetans 7 to 1. 

    5. Within China itself, massive human rights abuses continue. It is estimated that there up to twenty million Chinese citizens working in prison camps. 

    6. Most of the Tibetan plataeu lies above 14,000 feet. Tibet is the source of five of Asia's greatest rivers, which over 2 billion people depend upon. Since 1959, the Chinese government estimates that they have removed over $54 billion worth of timber. Over 80% of their forests have been destroyed, and large amoutns nuclear and toxic waste have been disposed of in Tibet. 

    7. Despite these facts and figures, the US government and US corporations continue to support China economically. This shows their blatant lack of respect for these critical issues of political and religious freedom and human rights. 


    Whataboutism is fraught with peril



    "Whataboutism is fraught with peril" 
    ... LOL... You criticize your own arguments!

    Yes, and apparently WhaAboutism, and various excuses are all you have.
    "Thou hypocrite!  First cast out the beam out of thine own eye, then you shall see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye".

    But you are fully engaged in the "Hey, don't look at this!   Look over there!" bullshit.
  • Reply 187 of 195
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,342member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?

    China may hold the U.S. accountable for its human rights violations in Afghanistan.
    "The US and its allies' 20 years of embroilment in Afghanistan under the banner of counter-terrorism has failed to bring the country its much-needed peace and development, but only chaos, homelessness and misery. An estimated 75,000 Afghan military and police officers perished in direct war deaths and an additional 71,334 civilians died, Fortune reported on August 19. Between 2016 and 2020, nearly 1,600 children were killed in NATO-led airstrikes, according to Al Jazeera. As many as 6 million were forced to flee their homes since 2001, Business Insider reported on August 17. "

    Illustration Liu RuiGT


    https://www.umass.edu/rso/fretibet/education.html


    The peaceful buddhist country of Tibet was invaded by Communists China in 1949. Since that time, over 1.2 million out of 6 Tibetans have been killed, over 6000 monastaries have been destroyed, and thousands of TIbetans have been imprisoned. ... In some Tibetan provinces, Chinese settlers outnumber Tibetans 7 to 1.

    1. The peaceful buddhist country of Tibet was invaded by Communists China in 1949. Since that time, over 1.2 million out of 6 Tibetans have been killed, over 6000 monastaries have been destroyed, and thousands of TIbetans have been imprisoned. 

    2. In Tibet today, there is no freedom of speech, religion, or press and arbitrary dissidents continue. 

    3. The Dalai Lama, Tibet's political and spiritual leader, fled to India in 1959. He now lives among over 100,000 other Tibetan refugees and their government in exile. 

    4. Forced abortion, sterilization of Tibetan women and the transfer of low income Chinese citizens threaten the survival of Tibet's unique culture. In some Tibetan provinces, Chinese settlers outnumber Tibetans 7 to 1. 

    5. Within China itself, massive human rights abuses continue. It is estimated that there up to twenty million Chinese citizens working in prison camps. 

    6. Most of the Tibetan plataeu lies above 14,000 feet. Tibet is the source of five of Asia's greatest rivers, which over 2 billion people depend upon. Since 1959, the Chinese government estimates that they have removed over $54 billion worth of timber. Over 80% of their forests have been destroyed, and large amoutns nuclear and toxic waste have been disposed of in Tibet. 

    7. Despite these facts and figures, the US government and US corporations continue to support China economically. This shows their blatant lack of respect for these critical issues of political and religious freedom and human rights. 


    Whataboutism is fraught with peril



    "Whataboutism is fraught with peril" 
    ... LOL... You criticize your own arguments!

    Yes, and apparently WhaAboutism, and various excuses are all you have.
    "Thou hypocrite!  First cast out the beam out of thine own eye, then you shall see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye".

    But you are fully engaged in the "Hey, don't look at this!   Look over there!" bullshit.
    Yet here you are, posting in support of China, and I'm posting contra to that, so yeah, we're both posting hypocritically because it paints an incomplete picture.
    ronn
  • Reply 188 of 195
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?

    China may hold the U.S. accountable for its human rights violations in Afghanistan.
    "The US and its allies' 20 years of embroilment in Afghanistan under the banner of counter-terrorism has failed to bring the country its much-needed peace and development, but only chaos, homelessness and misery. An estimated 75,000 Afghan military and police officers perished in direct war deaths and an additional 71,334 civilians died, Fortune reported on August 19. Between 2016 and 2020, nearly 1,600 children were killed in NATO-led airstrikes, according to Al Jazeera. As many as 6 million were forced to flee their homes since 2001, Business Insider reported on August 17. "

    Illustration Liu RuiGT


    https://www.umass.edu/rso/fretibet/education.html


    The peaceful buddhist country of Tibet was invaded by Communists China in 1949. Since that time, over 1.2 million out of 6 Tibetans have been killed, over 6000 monastaries have been destroyed, and thousands of TIbetans have been imprisoned. ... In some Tibetan provinces, Chinese settlers outnumber Tibetans 7 to 1.

    1. The peaceful buddhist country of Tibet was invaded by Communists China in 1949. Since that time, over 1.2 million out of 6 Tibetans have been killed, over 6000 monastaries have been destroyed, and thousands of TIbetans have been imprisoned. 

    2. In Tibet today, there is no freedom of speech, religion, or press and arbitrary dissidents continue. 

    3. The Dalai Lama, Tibet's political and spiritual leader, fled to India in 1959. He now lives among over 100,000 other Tibetan refugees and their government in exile. 

    4. Forced abortion, sterilization of Tibetan women and the transfer of low income Chinese citizens threaten the survival of Tibet's unique culture. In some Tibetan provinces, Chinese settlers outnumber Tibetans 7 to 1. 

    5. Within China itself, massive human rights abuses continue. It is estimated that there up to twenty million Chinese citizens working in prison camps. 

    6. Most of the Tibetan plataeu lies above 14,000 feet. Tibet is the source of five of Asia's greatest rivers, which over 2 billion people depend upon. Since 1959, the Chinese government estimates that they have removed over $54 billion worth of timber. Over 80% of their forests have been destroyed, and large amoutns nuclear and toxic waste have been disposed of in Tibet. 

    7. Despite these facts and figures, the US government and US corporations continue to support China economically. This shows their blatant lack of respect for these critical issues of political and religious freedom and human rights. 


    Whataboutism is fraught with peril



    "Whataboutism is fraught with peril" 
    ... LOL... You criticize your own arguments!

    Yes, and apparently WhaAboutism, and various excuses are all you have.
    "Thou hypocrite!  First cast out the beam out of thine own eye, then you shall see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye".

    But you are fully engaged in the "Hey, don't look at this!   Look over there!" bullshit.
    Yet here you are, posting in support of China, and I'm posting contra to that, so yeah, we're both posting hypocritically because it paints an incomplete picture.

    Only one of us is doing that.

    But, the part you have never understood is that I do NOT post in support of China.
    I post against lies, smears and propaganda -- because, in the end, it hurts us more than China by diverting attention from our own critical issues (which is what all the lies, smears and propaganda were intended to do from the beginning.  And those critical issues continue to build because our hubris is blinding us to the issues -- so we keep compounding them).
    edited August 2021
  • Reply 189 of 195
    tmay said:
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?

    It doesn't work at all for me -- I don't live there.   But it's obviously worked extremely well for the Chinese people.  They've gone from extreme poverty to the fastest growing nation on earth -- and one that has you terrified they will soon take over as the world's leading economy.

    The difference in Communist ideology from that of, say, the American right is that their ideology is focused entirely on improving the lives of their people.  That's not to say that they will always do it well.   But, for now, they obviously have been.  The Corona Virus is a prime example:  they managed it so that neither their people nor their economy died -- like ours did and are still doing.

    As in private and corporate life, it always comes down to doing the right things -- or not.

    But, despite one disaster after another over the past 50 years -- from Vietnam, to the demise of our basic industries, to the Great Recession, to Iraq, COVID and Afghanistan we continue to tell ourselves the "WE ARE THE BEST!   WE ARE #1 !"


    Communism is a collective economic system. There is no free lunch. Everyone has to work and the result is shared fairly. The government thus has authoritative power over the people. The people lost freedom under the government. However, in exchange of this the government assumes full responsibility of the well being of all the people. This is why during this pandemic, the government is doing draconian things to make sure no one got infected and no one will die. Many government officials are punished for making errors handling local outbreaks.

    On the other hand, US constitution guarantees full freedom to Americans. The government has no power to order people without being authorized by the people. Republicans are capitalism believers. They believe each people should be given full freedom to pursue maximum fortune. Democrats are socialists. Their plan is to use government to benefit poor and low income people. Socialism is not communism. 

    Here you have. The present China US relations is essentially a struggle between three political parties. Democrats and Republicans are unilaterally against CCP due to this ideological differences. 
  • Reply 190 of 195

    The information you quoted its from the Tibetan separatist propaganda. There are numerous factual errors, Their plan is to fool Americans like you to fight for their independence from China. 
  • Reply 191 of 195
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?

    It doesn't work at all for me -- I don't live there.   But it's obviously worked extremely well for the Chinese people.  They've gone from extreme poverty to the fastest growing nation on earth -- and one that has you terrified they will soon take over as the world's leading economy.

    The difference in Communist ideology from that of, say, the American right is that their ideology is focused entirely on improving the lives of their people.  That's not to say that they will always do it well.   But, for now, they obviously have been.  The Corona Virus is a prime example:  they managed it so that neither their people nor their economy died -- like ours did and are still doing.

    As in private and corporate life, it always comes down to doing the right things -- or not.

    But, despite one disaster after another over the past 50 years -- from Vietnam, to the demise of our basic industries, to the Great Recession, to Iraq, COVID and Afghanistan we continue to tell ourselves the "WE ARE THE BEST!   WE ARE #1 !"


    Communism is a collective economic system. There is no free lunch. Everyone has to work and the result is shared fairly. The government thus has authoritative power over the people. The people lost freedom under the government. However, in exchange of this the government assumes full responsibility of the well being of all the people. This is why during this pandemic, the government is doing draconian things to make sure no one got infected and no one will die. Many government officials are punished for making errors handling local outbreaks.

    On the other hand, US constitution guarantees full freedom to Americans. The government has no power to order people without being authorized by the people. Republicans are capitalism believers. They believe each people should be given full freedom to pursue maximum fortune. Democrats are socialists. Their plan is to use government to benefit poor and low income people. Socialism is not communism. 

    Here you have. The present China US relations is essentially a struggle between three political parties. Democrats and Republicans are unilaterally against CCP due to this ideological differences. 

    Yet both American political parties are all in for Communist Vietnam.
    And both were fine with China too -- until Trump started his smear campaign.  And we are building towards a second cold war (and possibly a hot one) with that nation driven mostly by propaganda and ideology.

    The first cold war was also driven by propaganda and ideology -- but there was a big difference:  the Soviet Union had a clear intent to take over the world.  Khrushchev said it clearly:   "We will bury you!"

    But China has no such intent -- so this silly one sided feud is all over propaganda and ideology.
  • Reply 192 of 195
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,342member
    tmay said:
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?

    It doesn't work at all for me -- I don't live there.   But it's obviously worked extremely well for the Chinese people.  They've gone from extreme poverty to the fastest growing nation on earth -- and one that has you terrified they will soon take over as the world's leading economy.

    The difference in Communist ideology from that of, say, the American right is that their ideology is focused entirely on improving the lives of their people.  That's not to say that they will always do it well.   But, for now, they obviously have been.  The Corona Virus is a prime example:  they managed it so that neither their people nor their economy died -- like ours did and are still doing.

    As in private and corporate life, it always comes down to doing the right things -- or not.

    But, despite one disaster after another over the past 50 years -- from Vietnam, to the demise of our basic industries, to the Great Recession, to Iraq, COVID and Afghanistan we continue to tell ourselves the "WE ARE THE BEST!   WE ARE #1 !"


    Communism is a collective economic system. There is no free lunch. Everyone has to work and the result is shared fairly. The government thus has authoritative power over the people. The people lost freedom under the government. However, in exchange of this the government assumes full responsibility of the well being of all the people. This is why during this pandemic, the government is doing draconian things to make sure no one got infected and no one will die. Many government officials are punished for making errors handling local outbreaks.

    On the other hand, US constitution guarantees full freedom to Americans. The government has no power to order people without being authorized by the people. Republicans are capitalism believers. They believe each people should be given full freedom to pursue maximum fortune. Democrats are socialists. Their plan is to use government to benefit poor and low income people. Socialism is not communism. 

    Here you have. The present China US relations is essentially a struggle between three political parties. Democrats and Republicans are unilaterally against CCP due to this ideological differences. 

    Yet both American political parties are all in for Communist Vietnam.
    And both were fine with China too -- until Trump started his smear campaign.  And we are building towards a second cold war (and possibly a hot one) with that nation driven mostly by propaganda and ideology.

    The first cold war was also driven by propaganda and ideology -- but there was a big difference:  the Soviet Union had a clear intent to take over the world.  Khrushchev said it clearly:   "We will bury you!"

    But China has no such intent -- so this silly one sided feud is all over propaganda and ideology.
    Xi Jinping came into power in 2015, and his "reforms" have been much more authoritarian, not less. Sure, Trump gets plenty of blame, but Xi Jinping certainly changed the equation as well.

    You postulate that the PRC has no such "intent" to harm democracies, yet there is plenty of evidence otherwise, especially economic coercion against trading partners who challenge the PRC on Human Rights, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. Perhaps the PRC is in fact "shooting itself in the foot" with its "Wolf Warrior Diplomacy".

    No matter, the West is rebuilding its alliances to contain the PRC, diplomatically, economically, and militarily. 
    edited August 2021 ronn
  • Reply 193 of 195
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?

    It doesn't work at all for me -- I don't live there.   But it's obviously worked extremely well for the Chinese people.  They've gone from extreme poverty to the fastest growing nation on earth -- and one that has you terrified they will soon take over as the world's leading economy.

    The difference in Communist ideology from that of, say, the American right is that their ideology is focused entirely on improving the lives of their people.  That's not to say that they will always do it well.   But, for now, they obviously have been.  The Corona Virus is a prime example:  they managed it so that neither their people nor their economy died -- like ours did and are still doing.

    As in private and corporate life, it always comes down to doing the right things -- or not.

    But, despite one disaster after another over the past 50 years -- from Vietnam, to the demise of our basic industries, to the Great Recession, to Iraq, COVID and Afghanistan we continue to tell ourselves the "WE ARE THE BEST!   WE ARE #1 !"


    Communism is a collective economic system. There is no free lunch. Everyone has to work and the result is shared fairly. The government thus has authoritative power over the people. The people lost freedom under the government. However, in exchange of this the government assumes full responsibility of the well being of all the people. This is why during this pandemic, the government is doing draconian things to make sure no one got infected and no one will die. Many government officials are punished for making errors handling local outbreaks.

    On the other hand, US constitution guarantees full freedom to Americans. The government has no power to order people without being authorized by the people. Republicans are capitalism believers. They believe each people should be given full freedom to pursue maximum fortune. Democrats are socialists. Their plan is to use government to benefit poor and low income people. Socialism is not communism. 

    Here you have. The present China US relations is essentially a struggle between three political parties. Democrats and Republicans are unilaterally against CCP due to this ideological differences. 

    Yet both American political parties are all in for Communist Vietnam.
    And both were fine with China too -- until Trump started his smear campaign.  And we are building towards a second cold war (and possibly a hot one) with that nation driven mostly by propaganda and ideology.

    The first cold war was also driven by propaganda and ideology -- but there was a big difference:  the Soviet Union had a clear intent to take over the world.  Khrushchev said it clearly:   "We will bury you!"

    But China has no such intent -- so this silly one sided feud is all over propaganda and ideology.
    Xi Jinping came into power in 2015, and his "reforms" have been much more authoritarian, not less. Sure, Trump gets plenty of blame, but Xi Jinping certainly changed the equation as well.

    You postulate that the PRC has no such "intent" to harm democracies, yet there is plenty of evidence otherwise, especially economic coercion against trading partners who challenge the PRC on Human Rights, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. Perhaps the PRC is in fact "shooting itself in the foot" with its "Wolf Warrior Diplomacy".

    No matter, the West is rebuilding its alliances to contain the PRC, diplomatically, economically, and militarily. 
    Your argument violated the fundamental principle of capitalism. There is no company who will try to harm its customers.  
  • Reply 194 of 195
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?

    It doesn't work at all for me -- I don't live there.   But it's obviously worked extremely well for the Chinese people.  They've gone from extreme poverty to the fastest growing nation on earth -- and one that has you terrified they will soon take over as the world's leading economy.

    The difference in Communist ideology from that of, say, the American right is that their ideology is focused entirely on improving the lives of their people.  That's not to say that they will always do it well.   But, for now, they obviously have been.  The Corona Virus is a prime example:  they managed it so that neither their people nor their economy died -- like ours did and are still doing.

    As in private and corporate life, it always comes down to doing the right things -- or not.

    But, despite one disaster after another over the past 50 years -- from Vietnam, to the demise of our basic industries, to the Great Recession, to Iraq, COVID and Afghanistan we continue to tell ourselves the "WE ARE THE BEST!   WE ARE #1 !"


    Communism is a collective economic system. There is no free lunch. Everyone has to work and the result is shared fairly. The government thus has authoritative power over the people. The people lost freedom under the government. However, in exchange of this the government assumes full responsibility of the well being of all the people. This is why during this pandemic, the government is doing draconian things to make sure no one got infected and no one will die. Many government officials are punished for making errors handling local outbreaks.

    On the other hand, US constitution guarantees full freedom to Americans. The government has no power to order people without being authorized by the people. Republicans are capitalism believers. They believe each people should be given full freedom to pursue maximum fortune. Democrats are socialists. Their plan is to use government to benefit poor and low income people. Socialism is not communism. 

    Here you have. The present China US relations is essentially a struggle between three political parties. Democrats and Republicans are unilaterally against CCP due to this ideological differences. 

    Yet both American political parties are all in for Communist Vietnam.
    And both were fine with China too -- until Trump started his smear campaign.  And we are building towards a second cold war (and possibly a hot one) with that nation driven mostly by propaganda and ideology.

    The first cold war was also driven by propaganda and ideology -- but there was a big difference:  the Soviet Union had a clear intent to take over the world.  Khrushchev said it clearly:   "We will bury you!"

    But China has no such intent -- so this silly one sided feud is all over propaganda and ideology.
    Xi Jinping came into power in 2015, and his "reforms" have been much more authoritarian, not less. Sure, Trump gets plenty of blame, but Xi Jinping certainly changed the equation as well.

    You postulate that the PRC has no such "intent" to harm democracies, yet there is plenty of evidence otherwise, especially economic coercion against trading partners who challenge the PRC on Human Rights, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. Perhaps the PRC is in fact "shooting itself in the foot" with its "Wolf Warrior Diplomacy".

    No matter, the West is rebuilding its alliances to contain the PRC, diplomatically, economically, and militarily. 
    Your argument violated the fundamental principle of capitalism. There is no company who will try to harm its customers.  

    That's true.   In theory.   Or, to some, not even in theory:  to them, a corporation is ONLY responsible for the enrichment of its owners.  So, like American pharmaceutical companies bankrupting and even killing their customers with high prices, they pursue that goal single mindedly.

    But, capitalism -- like democracy -- and unlike communism -- has an escape valve:  competition will eventually put those unethical companies out of business.   (Unfortunately, in the case of American pharmaceutical companies, they have bought & paid for enough politicians that the government supports them in their unethical practices and protects them from the self-correcting competition that would put them out of business.  In this case, the government shields those companies from both internal and external competition while also shielding them from unfair trade practices.)
  • Reply 195 of 195
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Taliban as a political entity is much better than being a militia. A government has responsibility to the whole nation. It will have a leader that other leaders can talk to. Afghanistan will have a future than being occupied by US forever. Taliban has religious ideology, people will lose freedom. This may cause great suffering to some people. 

    Yes, like all ideologies & theologies, they put their theology ahead of right and wrong, good & bad -- and ahead of the people it controls.
    They will use their theology to control women -- just as American so-called "Christians" use their theology to control women.

    But, currently, Afghanistan is under the control of a moderate branch of the Taliban.   Rather than try to depose them or undermine them, it would be in our best interests and the Afghan people's to recognize them and support them (or at least not undermine them).  That's partly to avoid the hardliners taking over and allowing the country to foster terrorism and partly so we don't push them to take sides with Russia, China and Iran against us.  In that case, we all lose.

    But there will be fierce opposition to that:  we've been conditioned to hate the Taliban and we believe that everybody has to do what we tell them to do.  So, it is more likely that we will steal the little money they have than to pay any sort of reparations -- and either send Afghanistan to being a Russian, Chinese, Iranian asset or a sponsor of drugs and terrorism - or both.   Allah knows they have reason to seek revenge.

    Vietnam should be the example:   They make it clear that they are not going to favor one nation over another.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58301575

    Who needs religion anyway;

    "Xi Jinping thought" will help "teenagers establish Marxist beliefs", said the Ministry of Education (MOE) in new guidelines.

    LOL...

    "Xi Jinping Thought" has 14 main principles which emphasise Communist ideals and also:

    • Call for "complete and deep reform" and "new developing ideas"
    • Promise "harmonious living between man and nature"
    • Emphasise "absolute authority of the party over the people's army"
    • Emphasise the importance of "'one country two systems' and reunification with the motherland"

    How's that working out for you, George?

    It doesn't work at all for me -- I don't live there.   But it's obviously worked extremely well for the Chinese people.  They've gone from extreme poverty to the fastest growing nation on earth -- and one that has you terrified they will soon take over as the world's leading economy.

    The difference in Communist ideology from that of, say, the American right is that their ideology is focused entirely on improving the lives of their people.  That's not to say that they will always do it well.   But, for now, they obviously have been.  The Corona Virus is a prime example:  they managed it so that neither their people nor their economy died -- like ours did and are still doing.

    As in private and corporate life, it always comes down to doing the right things -- or not.

    But, despite one disaster after another over the past 50 years -- from Vietnam, to the demise of our basic industries, to the Great Recession, to Iraq, COVID and Afghanistan we continue to tell ourselves the "WE ARE THE BEST!   WE ARE #1 !"


    Communism is a collective economic system. There is no free lunch. Everyone has to work and the result is shared fairly. The government thus has authoritative power over the people. The people lost freedom under the government. However, in exchange of this the government assumes full responsibility of the well being of all the people. This is why during this pandemic, the government is doing draconian things to make sure no one got infected and no one will die. Many government officials are punished for making errors handling local outbreaks.

    On the other hand, US constitution guarantees full freedom to Americans. The government has no power to order people without being authorized by the people. Republicans are capitalism believers. They believe each people should be given full freedom to pursue maximum fortune. Democrats are socialists. Their plan is to use government to benefit poor and low income people. Socialism is not communism. 

    Here you have. The present China US relations is essentially a struggle between three political parties. Democrats and Republicans are unilaterally against CCP due to this ideological differences. 

    Yet both American political parties are all in for Communist Vietnam.
    And both were fine with China too -- until Trump started his smear campaign.  And we are building towards a second cold war (and possibly a hot one) with that nation driven mostly by propaganda and ideology.

    The first cold war was also driven by propaganda and ideology -- but there was a big difference:  the Soviet Union had a clear intent to take over the world.  Khrushchev said it clearly:   "We will bury you!"

    But China has no such intent -- so this silly one sided feud is all over propaganda and ideology.
    Xi Jinping came into power in 2015, and his "reforms" have been much more authoritarian, not less. Sure, Trump gets plenty of blame, but Xi Jinping certainly changed the equation as well.

    You postulate that the PRC has no such "intent" to harm democracies, yet there is plenty of evidence otherwise, especially economic coercion against trading partners who challenge the PRC on Human Rights, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. Perhaps the PRC is in fact "shooting itself in the foot" with its "Wolf Warrior Diplomacy".

    No matter, the West is rebuilding its alliances to contain the PRC, diplomatically, economically, and militarily. 
    Yes, that is true:   China is expanding its trade routes and alliances throughout the world -- rebuilding the old silk road in essence.

    And yes, when they subsidize a nation by building roads, railroads, ports, etc., they expect that nation will not side with their enemies against them.   We used to do the same.  But then, we went on this anti-government, anti-taxes thing -- and topped it off with Nationalism -- and ended most aid to other countries.   The result was areas like Central America -- where conditions are so bad people are escaping to wherever they can (mostly to the U.S) -- and China is moving in helping them with vaccines and likely other stuff as well.   That was well illustrated with Harris' trip down there:  they begged for vaccines which we refused -- so they are accepting help from China -- but we still expect them to do our bidding.

    Another example is Afghanistan where we spent over a Trillion dollars and 6,000 American lives (and hundreds of thousands of Afghan lives) with military aid.   But, when that failed, China will be moving in with business aid that benefits both countries.  And, their only condition is:  "Do whatever you want to do but:  Don't F us over".

    We pretty much agree on that.  Where we disagree seems to be:  Does that make China bad?  Or us f-n stupid?
    (And, that is why you think I defend China.  What I am protesting are American policies that use attacks on China to paper over our own mistakes and deficiencies.   That approach will only backfire in the end.  It's like Patrick Mahomes trying to win a football game against Tom Brady by trash talking Tom Brady.)
    edited August 2021
Sign In or Register to comment.