Fellowship, Christians and anger is nothing new. Lynchings. Witch-hunts. Crusades. Inquisitions.
Many Christians are racist against Muslims. This provides these Christians with a nice target for their anger. Add to that some leaders in the Christian world who see this anger as an opportunity to increase their power and you have a whole group of Christions that hate. So if Muslim nations have a friend in the world, that nation is also a target by angry Christians who are racist.
Many Christians see Islam as an "evil" religion and think all Muslims are bound for hell.
If Christians want to stay angry then that is sad. I would hope more Christians would listen to the lessons of their greatest teacher and simply follow what is right in this world. Move on with life.
tonton that is very nice but does it really hold any water?
You and I both know what I said does hold some reality.
I have said what I will say about the matter being mostly that the non-arab world should not be afraid to remove people like Saddam or Hitler or the Talliban.
If some out there will miss such killers and control freaks I am sorry. I do not miss a single one of them. I do not feel sorry for them. I do not defend them.
Fellowship, Christians and anger is nothing new. Lynchings. Witch-hunts. Crusades. Inquisitions.
Many Christians are racist against Muslims. This provides these Christians with a nice target for their anger. Add to that some leaders in the Christian world who see this anger as an opportunity to increase their power and you have a whole group of Christions that hate. So if Muslim nations have a friend in the world, that nation is also a target by angry Christians who are racist.
Many Christians see Islam as an "evil" religion and think all Muslims are bound for hell.
If Christians want to stay angry then that is sad. I would hope more Christians would listen to the lessons of their greatest teacher and simply follow what is right in this world. Move on with life.
Why do I think this has taken us into the most dangerous period of my life, and why my way of life is now under serious threat in a way it has never been? And that the entire world is on the precipice? Can I back that up, or am I being a drama queen?
You're being a drama queen. The world on the precipice of the US/Iraq conflict?
Certainly worse than the US/USSR conflict, eh?
Quote:
This is lunacy.
I agree, that post is lunacy.
Quote:
and you'll manage to ignore the important immediate fact about how the Muslims and Arabs ALL hate us now
Oh, so it's a FACT that ALL Arabs hate us now.
I was right when I called you a drama queen.
Quote:
The most dangerous period since the Second World War and kicked off by the Iraq war. I stand by it.
My grandparents have a bomb shelter under their garage that says this isn't the most dangerous period since the Second World War.
My my my, aren't we ignorant of history? Who needs it when we have melodrama?
We can ignore facts and history and what people have actually said will happen and then act like our dramatic rantings are fact. That is so much more fun.
Next time you address something to me make sure it's an e-mail or private message. Calling someone out in a thread title makes you look like a child.
Do you honestly think that there's no one straddling the fence here? Do you honestly think that there's no one who's mad, but not mad enough to resort to violence... yet? Do you honestly think that there are no fathers who hate the US, who whould have just stayed at home peacefully hating us for the rest of his life, if not for the fact that we just blew up a market where his wife and child were buying bread?
To ignore these hypothetical (but very real) possibilities, my friends, is denial.
Uh, I'm not saying there aren't people like this. I'm saying that terrorist acts will occur against the US with or without any Iraq war, with or without intervention in the Middle East, with or without further excuses.
Quote:
Originally posted by Harald
Your comment reads as though they ALL wanted to kill us. They didn't. More do now.
No, that' what you're reading into it. I have not implied, inferred, or in any claimed any such thing, thank you.
"To go in to Iraq beacuse Saddam might or even probably has weapons of terror and because we are afraid that if he has them he might use them is a pussy, chickensh!t, cowardly move initiated by a terrorized people who are too afraid to use logic and behavioral science to minimize the danger"
Goddamn it, we forgot to use logic and behavorial science!
If someone can name a major terrorist movement (i.e. - one with the funding and organization to carry out attacks like 9/11 or worse) whose main bitch is Iraq I'd love to see it.
We knew about bin Laden and his motivations for over a decade. Hell, even The Family Guy did a joke about him hijacking planes. Who do we have now?
I'm not saying they don't exist, but I'm curious.
I'm going to need a little more than a lot of broad generalizations before I start demanding my president change his ways and start appeasement policies.
Let's act like sanction slaughter hadn't been pissing these people off for years. Let's act like this will not improve anyone's life.
Well, Jihad sent their first squad of suicide bombers to iraq today. They claim to have 4000 volunteers. My guess is that the groups you seem to be looking for are being formed as we speak.
If someone can name a major terrorist movement (i.e. - one with the funding and organization to carry out attacks like 9/11 or worse) whose main bitch is Iraq I'd love to see it.
We knew about bin Laden and his motivations for over a decade. Hell, even The Family Guy did a joke about him hijacking planes. Who do we have now?
I'm not saying they don't exist, but I'm curious.
No-one's had a bitch about Iraq because Iraq hasn't been invaded by America and Britain before. Bam!
Did you see the news about the demonstrations in Syria, Egypt and Gaza? Even in Tehran, for gawd's sake. The level of sheer resentment in the (increasingly unified) Arab world now is... out there. Never been this bad, not never nor ever.
No-one's had a bitch about Iraq because Iraq hasn't been invaded by America and Britain before. Bam!
Did you see the news about the demonstrations in Syria, Egypt and Gaza? Even in Tehran, for gawd's sake. The level of sheer resentment in the (increasingly unified) Arab world now is... out there. Never been this bad, not never nor ever.
anyone remember hizbolla? they were nothing before the isreali invation of lebanon in 82.
No-one's had a bitch about Iraq because Iraq hasn't been invaded by America and Britain before. Bam!
Lots of people have had a bitch about Iraq for a long time now.
Quote:
Did you see the news about the demonstrations in Syria, Egypt and Gaza? Even in Tehran, for gawd's sake. The level of sheer resentment in the (increasingly unified) Arab world now is... out there. Never been this bad, not never nor ever.
I saw them after 9/11 and when we attacked Afghanistan as well. I remember big protests before the Gulf War, even. I've seen American flags burned at giant rallies for YEARS.
Sure, I'll agree that it might have never been this bad. I don't know for sure but I'll swing with you on that. But what does it matter? What should we do as a result?
If someone can name a major terrorist movement (i.e. - one with the funding and organization to carry out attacks like 9/11 or worse) whose main bitch is Iraq I'd love to see it.
The Iranian group headed by the Ayatollah something or other . . .
there was even an interrview with him on 60 minutes
I think that if we had been smart we wold have enlisted him, as well as teh kurdish, to fight with us as in Afghanistan with the warlords . . . he 'claims' to want democracy and has 15'000 Shia soldiers
If we had worked with him we really would have dancing in the streets and uprisings
but in stead, Rummsfeld (who should be fired!) issued a warning agaist them . . . if we had thought this through we could have encouraged efforts of diplomacy with Iran . . . which would only help the reformation efforts . . . and fought against the very very very important aspect of Arab perceptions of the US
If we just say "well they hate us . . . what else is new" . . then we will eventually be saying: " another car bomb in the mall downtown, what else is new" - we will be perpetuating the kind of environment that makes this a fuucked up world.
Comments
My point is this. Arabs and anger is nothing new. It is as old as time.
and
Yes Arabs hate and they have for a long time.
ignorant. racist. bad christian.
Originally posted by sapi
Orinally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook:
and
ignorant. racist. bad christian.
I don't think so. Please enlighten me
We hear how the arabs HATE key word there sapi did you get that? HATE america.
I don't "hate" Iraq. I don't "hate" France. I don't hate any country or the people.
But it is clear that there are arabs who """""" H A T E """""" America
You do the math..
Don't call me ignorant if indeed it is you who fit the bill
Fellowship
some hate your way of life, but so do christians
and I see you turning from thinking all arabs hate america, to
But it is clear that there are arabs who """""" H A T E """""" America
Originally posted by tonton
Fellowship, Christians and anger is nothing new. Lynchings. Witch-hunts. Crusades. Inquisitions.
Many Christians are racist against Muslims. This provides these Christians with a nice target for their anger. Add to that some leaders in the Christian world who see this anger as an opportunity to increase their power and you have a whole group of Christions that hate. So if Muslim nations have a friend in the world, that nation is also a target by angry Christians who are racist.
Many Christians see Islam as an "evil" religion and think all Muslims are bound for hell.
If Christians want to stay angry then that is sad. I would hope more Christians would listen to the lessons of their greatest teacher and simply follow what is right in this world. Move on with life.
tonton that is very nice but does it really hold any water?
You and I both know what I said does hold some reality.
I have said what I will say about the matter being mostly that the non-arab world should not be afraid to remove people like Saddam or Hitler or the Talliban.
If some out there will miss such killers and control freaks I am sorry. I do not miss a single one of them. I do not feel sorry for them. I do not defend them.
Fellowship
Fellowship, Christians and anger is nothing new. Lynchings. Witch-hunts. Crusades. Inquisitions.
Many Christians are racist against Muslims. This provides these Christians with a nice target for their anger. Add to that some leaders in the Christian world who see this anger as an opportunity to increase their power and you have a whole group of Christions that hate. So if Muslim nations have a friend in the world, that nation is also a target by angry Christians who are racist.
Many Christians see Islam as an "evil" religion and think all Muslims are bound for hell.
If Christians want to stay angry then that is sad. I would hope more Christians would listen to the lessons of their greatest teacher and simply follow what is right in this world. Move on with life.
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Thank you God and Allah!
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
To answer about your post what I see wrong with it is this:
I believe it is more dangerous to do nothing than to worry about what "they think" if we do take action to disarm a brutal dictator in Iraq.
I already told you Saddam is not the Hero of the arabs nor was the Talliban.
Have I seen the hate in Lebanon? Yes Arabs hate and they have for a long time.
I had some questions for you that I would like to know your response.
Fellolwship
No, I said "specific" not just that "You're wrong, here's the same line I've trotted out a million times.
You called me a "drama queen" and...
... I was right.
Why do I think this has taken us into the most dangerous period of my life, and why my way of life is now under serious threat in a way it has never been? And that the entire world is on the precipice? Can I back that up, or am I being a drama queen?
You're being a drama queen. The world on the precipice of the US/Iraq conflict?
Certainly worse than the US/USSR conflict, eh?
This is lunacy.
I agree, that post is lunacy.
and you'll manage to ignore the important immediate fact about how the Muslims and Arabs ALL hate us now
Oh, so it's a FACT that ALL Arabs hate us now.
I was right when I called you a drama queen.
The most dangerous period since the Second World War and kicked off by the Iraq war. I stand by it.
My grandparents have a bomb shelter under their garage that says this isn't the most dangerous period since the Second World War.
My my my, aren't we ignorant of history? Who needs it when we have melodrama?
We can ignore facts and history and what people have actually said will happen and then act like our dramatic rantings are fact. That is so much more fun.
Next time you address something to me make sure it's an e-mail or private message. Calling someone out in a thread title makes you look like a child.
My grandparents have a bomb shelter under their garage that says this isn't the most dangerous period since the Second World War.
that tells a lot about you too....
Originally posted by groverat
I was right when I called you a drama queen.
Why, because you prefer to attack someone's character rather than engage in an intelligent discussion?
Originally posted by groverat
Calling someone out in a thread title makes you look like a child.
Thread title or not, name calling throughout an entire post or even thread makes you look like a child.
Originally posted by tonton
Do you honestly think that there's no one straddling the fence here? Do you honestly think that there's no one who's mad, but not mad enough to resort to violence... yet? Do you honestly think that there are no fathers who hate the US, who whould have just stayed at home peacefully hating us for the rest of his life, if not for the fact that we just blew up a market where his wife and child were buying bread?
To ignore these hypothetical (but very real) possibilities, my friends, is denial.
Uh, I'm not saying there aren't people like this. I'm saying that terrorist acts will occur against the US with or without any Iraq war, with or without intervention in the Middle East, with or without further excuses.
Originally posted by Harald
Your comment reads as though they ALL wanted to kill us. They didn't. More do now.
No, that' what you're reading into it. I have not implied, inferred, or in any claimed any such thing, thank you.
Goddamn it, we forgot to use logic and behavorial science!
Sapi, that was a cheap shot and you know it.
We knew about bin Laden and his motivations for over a decade. Hell, even The Family Guy did a joke about him hijacking planes. Who do we have now?
I'm not saying they don't exist, but I'm curious.
I'm going to need a little more than a lot of broad generalizations before I start demanding my president change his ways and start appeasement policies.
Let's act like sanction slaughter hadn't been pissing these people off for years. Let's act like this will not improve anyone's life.
Originally posted by groverat
If someone can name a major terrorist movement (i.e. - one with the funding and organization to carry out attacks like 9/11 or worse) whose main bitch is Iraq I'd love to see it.
We knew about bin Laden and his motivations for over a decade. Hell, even The Family Guy did a joke about him hijacking planes. Who do we have now?
I'm not saying they don't exist, but I'm curious.
No-one's had a bitch about Iraq because Iraq hasn't been invaded by America and Britain before. Bam!
Did you see the news about the demonstrations in Syria, Egypt and Gaza? Even in Tehran, for gawd's sake. The level of sheer resentment in the (increasingly unified) Arab world now is... out there. Never been this bad, not never nor ever.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
No-one's had a bitch about Iraq because Iraq hasn't been invaded by America and Britain before. Bam!
Did you see the news about the demonstrations in Syria, Egypt and Gaza? Even in Tehran, for gawd's sake. The level of sheer resentment in the (increasingly unified) Arab world now is... out there. Never been this bad, not never nor ever.
anyone remember hizbolla? they were nothing before the isreali invation of lebanon in 82.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
No-one's had a bitch about Iraq because Iraq hasn't been invaded by America and Britain before. Bam!
Lots of people have had a bitch about Iraq for a long time now.
Did you see the news about the demonstrations in Syria, Egypt and Gaza? Even in Tehran, for gawd's sake. The level of sheer resentment in the (increasingly unified) Arab world now is... out there. Never been this bad, not never nor ever.
I saw them after 9/11 and when we attacked Afghanistan as well. I remember big protests before the Gulf War, even. I've seen American flags burned at giant rallies for YEARS.
Sure, I'll agree that it might have never been this bad. I don't know for sure but I'll swing with you on that. But what does it matter? What should we do as a result?
Do you actually advocate ANYTHING?
Originally posted by groverat
If someone can name a major terrorist movement (i.e. - one with the funding and organization to carry out attacks like 9/11 or worse) whose main bitch is Iraq I'd love to see it.
The Iranian group headed by the Ayatollah something or other . . .
there was even an interrview with him on 60 minutes
I think that if we had been smart we wold have enlisted him, as well as teh kurdish, to fight with us as in Afghanistan with the warlords . . . he 'claims' to want democracy and has 15'000 Shia soldiers
If we had worked with him we really would have dancing in the streets and uprisings
but in stead, Rummsfeld (who should be fired!) issued a warning agaist them . . . if we had thought this through we could have encouraged efforts of diplomacy with Iran . . . which would only help the reformation efforts . . . and fought against the very very very important aspect of Arab perceptions of the US
If we just say "well they hate us . . . what else is new" . . then we will eventually be saying: " another car bomb in the mall downtown, what else is new" - we will be perpetuating the kind of environment that makes this a fuucked up world.