US could hit Russia with export rule that killed Huawei, banning US tech

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Comments

  • Reply 101 of 193
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Compared to the previous Trump administration, Biden's administration is hitting nothing but home runs. But of course, Biden did have to clean up the mess that Trump left...

    Thanks for playing though.

    That's a pretty low bar to clear.
    And, to be honest, I doubt that Trump would have bungled the situation as badly as Biden has, so far, done.
    (And, trust me!  I am NOT a Trump fan)
    George, you've now gone off the rails completely, and your posts are just rambling about.

    Heck, I even remember you telling us here in the U.S. that China wasn't the problem, Russia was. So now, you're behind Russia, but you still have no understanding of what's going on. 

    Russia is weak militarily, save for their Nuclear weapons. China is the future threat, and so while this invasion of Ukraine is horrifying to the West and especially to the citizens of Ukraine, it is going to drain Russia of resources. That isn't strength, that's weakness. 

    Even China is aware of that.


    What is the problem of China? Because China wants to reunite Taiwan but it is against our plan to control China using Taiwan? LOL 
    Only George cares about what you post; I don't, and save yourself the embarrassment of complaining that I am violating your first amendment rights, as if you even know what that means.
    I agree with George. He is right. The West has promised Russia that NATO will not expand. The West broke its promise. Not only that, it attacked Yugoslavia and forcibly dismantled it into pieces. 
    The West never promised that NATO would not expand. 

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/
    While that's true there has never been any formal agreement, the West isn't completely innocent in this mess. Gorbachev did originally say something entirely different before he reversed and said Nato was never discussed years later. 
    That means Gorbachev fooled Russians for years before Putin wake up. 
  • Reply 102 of 193
    tmay said:
    robaba said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Yes, we would be soooo much better off with Putins Puppet in office.  I’m sure that any day now the former guy would have begun pulling strings. /s
    Putin's Puppet? Haha...you're one of those people. Maybe Putin's Puppet should ask Putin for Hunter's laptop back. 
    Trump has authoritarian fantasies about Putin, et al, that even Melania probably finds disturbing, so, yeah, Trump is still Putin's Puppet, and at some point, even the GOP is going to have to give up on Putin. 
    The GOP? Did you miss the 8 years under Obama? He bent over backwards for Putin. 
    Because US is too focused on China. There is not one day you cannot hear the word China from Limbaugh's mouth.
    Huh? You do know Limbaugh is dead right? 
    You said 8 years of Obama. 
    My bad. Thought you meant presently. 
    It was not your fault. It was @waveparticle who used "is" in his sentence when he should have used "was" (There is not one day). I can't believe how a person who makes such basic grammar mistake can claim himself to be an US citizen.
    Thanks. I should say, there was not one day you cannot hear the word China from Limbaugh's mouth.
  • Reply 103 of 193
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    tmay said:
    robaba said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Yes, we would be soooo much better off with Putins Puppet in office.  I’m sure that any day now the former guy would have begun pulling strings. /s
    Putin's Puppet? Haha...you're one of those people. Maybe Putin's Puppet should ask Putin for Hunter's laptop back. 
    Trump has authoritarian fantasies about Putin, et al, that even Melania probably finds disturbing, so, yeah, Trump is still Putin's Puppet, and at some point, even the GOP is going to have to give up on Putin. 
    The GOP? Did you miss the 8 years under Obama? He bent over backwards for Putin. 
    Did you miss the 8 years under Bush Jr.?

    I'm realistic. Neither party has been overly concerned enough about Putin, nor have they intervened when they had the option to. That is changing fast, but in the current case, it is almost entirely GOP Trump supporters, and Trump that are fully backing Putin's invasions.

    That's just fucked up.
    mike1
  • Reply 104 of 193
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    blastdoor said:
    emoeller said:
    Putin is maniacal and not easily dissuaded.   If both iOS and Android were cut off that would be devastating as the home grown mobile OS that Russia is using is terrible.   Along with other sanctions it would cripple the Russian economy.

    Putin is far from maniacal.   He is calculating.  Coldly, calculating for what is best for his country.

    In 2014 Hillary promised Ukraine a NATO membership if they left the Russian fold.
    NATO and its missiles, fighter planes, bombers, tanks, etc... on Russia's border are a direct threat to Russia -- just as they were to us in 1960 when Russia started moving them into Cuba.
    How did Putin respond to Hillary's foolishness?  By making sure she was not elected president.  And, we didn't hear anymore about NATO in Ukraine till Biden took office.

    How did Russia respond to all of that?
    Russia wanted ALL Ukrainians to have a vote - so they supported the Minsk agreement.  But western Ukraine blocked it (after agreeing to it) -- so only western Ukrainians got to vote -- and they are voting to let in NATO missiles next door to Russia.   Russia is understandably worried about that -- just as we were when missiles were shipped to Cuba in 1960 when we said:  Either remove them or there WILL BE WAR!

    The west knows better than to face Russia militarily.  So it is taking the Trump route with "sanctions".
    But, like with Trump's.  It is us who will pay the price. Oil prices are already headed up to $100.

    Meanwhile, we've been throwing economic warfare around since 2016 and those we are targeting are beginning to take action to defend themselves.  That will weaken us even further.  Actually, a LOT further when the dollar and U.S. financial systems are no longer the world standard.

    The losers in this cock fight will be, once again, us, the people.
    All we have to do is commit to never letting NATO into Ukraine and this nonsense would be at an end.  We would lose nothing and the world would gain peace.
    But no.  Instead we're starting an economic war.
    ... Stupid.   Very, very stupid.

    Such massive false equivalency can't be an accident, it has to be the result of total disingenuousness. 

    The Cuban missile crisis was about the US putting nuclear missiles in Turkey and the USSR putting nuclear missiles in Cuba. Both agreed to back away from those plans and so crisis was averted. 

    Even if Ukraine became a NATO country, the US would not place nuclear weapons there. There are only five countries outside of the US that host American nuclear weapons -- guess which they are? I'll give you a hint, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Hungary, and Lithuania (all NATO members, all formerly in the USSR or Warsaw Pact) are NOT among them. There is no honest, legit evidence or reason to worry about the US putting nukes in Ukraine. That is a massive Red Herring. 

    The only 'missiles' (ooh, scary!) that would be in Ukraine are the ones already there -- anti-tank and air defense missiles. 

    The only way in which NATO represents an 'existential threat' to Putin (not Russia) is that they are (mostly) democracies. It's not NATO weapons that Putin fears in Ukraine, it's Western ideas that Putin fears. His fear of democracy is understandable -- it would threaten his power AND he probably sees freedom as a threat to stability. 

    There certainly are realistic constraints on what the US can do in the world. We need to be careful not to overcommit. I'm sympathetic to that kind of argument. But the idea that Putin's actions or attitude are justifiable, or that everything is the fault of the US for not appeasing him enough, is just BS. 

    The biggest constrain on what the US can do is that our politics have been corrupted by both Russian and Chinese propaganda and bribes. On the right, we've got useful idiots or outright stooges working for the Russians. On the left, we occasionally have pro-Chinese shills. And then it's left to honest people to sort through all the lies. Not a great time in American history. 

    You sure about that?
  • Reply 105 of 193
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Compared to the previous Trump administration, Biden's administration is hitting nothing but home runs. But of course, Biden did have to clean up the mess that Trump left...

    Thanks for playing though.

    That's a pretty low bar to clear.
    And, to be honest, I doubt that Trump would have bungled the situation as badly as Biden has, so far, done.
    (And, trust me!  I am NOT a Trump fan)
    George, you've now gone off the rails completely, and your posts are just rambling about.

    Heck, I even remember you telling us here in the U.S. that China wasn't the problem, Russia was. So now, you're behind Russia, but you still have no understanding of what's going on. 

    Russia is weak militarily, save for their Nuclear weapons. China is the future threat, and so while this invasion of Ukraine is horrifying to the West and especially to the citizens of Ukraine, it is going to drain Russia of resources. That isn't strength, that's weakness. 

    Even China is aware of that.


    What is the problem of China? Because China wants to reunite Taiwan but it is against our plan to control China using Taiwan? LOL 
    Only George cares about what you post; I don't, and save yourself the embarrassment of complaining that I am violating your first amendment rights, as if you even know what that means.
    I agree with George. He is right. The West has promised Russia that NATO will not expand. The West broke its promise. Not only that, it attacked Yugoslavia and forcibly dismantled it into pieces. 
    The West never promised that NATO would not expand. 

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/
    While that's true there has never been any formal agreement, the West isn't completely innocent in this mess. Gorbachev did originally say something entirely different before he reversed and said Nato was never discussed years later. 
    All of which is beside the point. Those former Soviet states couldn't wait to get EU and NATO membership, because that gave them a hopeful future, something that Russia can't or won't provide.
  • Reply 106 of 193
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Compared to the previous Trump administration, Biden's administration is hitting nothing but home runs. But of course, Biden did have to clean up the mess that Trump left...

    Thanks for playing though.

    That's a pretty low bar to clear.
    And, to be honest, I doubt that Trump would have bungled the situation as badly as Biden has, so far, done.
    (And, trust me!  I am NOT a Trump fan)
    George, you've now gone off the rails completely, and your posts are just rambling about.

    Heck, I even remember you telling us here in the U.S. that China wasn't the problem, Russia was. So now, you're behind Russia, but you still have no understanding of what's going on. 

    Russia is weak militarily, save for their Nuclear weapons. China is the future threat, and so while this invasion of Ukraine is horrifying to the West and especially to the citizens of Ukraine, it is going to drain Russia of resources. That isn't strength, that's weakness. 

    Even China is aware of that.



    Sorry, I don't have this binary good/bad guy mentality like you.
    I am not "behind Russia" -- that's just a resurrection of the Bush/Cheney thing trying to sell their Iraq war where anybody who didn't support it was deemed an UnAmerican Traitor supporting "a dictator".

    What I DO support is avoiding unnecessary conflict such as what we stirred up over there.
    How have we helped the world by bringing it to the brink of war?   Again.
    When your views and Trump views are coincident, I don't have to look far to see authoritarian brethren...

    LOL...   So you've fallen to that?
    But regardless, when have I agreed with Trump?  Quite the opposite:  while you fully support his policies with China, I continuously get you all upset by knocking down the bullshit arguments.
    phonephreak
  • Reply 107 of 193
    Before Russian abandoned communism, Russian living condition was very poor. Most of its resources were used in military. Then Carter reestablished diplomatic relation with China and abolished all sanctions against China. China economy accelerated rapidly from dire position. Russians saw China was getting better and better. The elites thought abandoning communism is the way to reconnect with the West. So after 6/4/1989, Berlin wall was allowed to be torn down. 
  • Reply 108 of 193
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    blastdoor said:
    emoeller said:
    Putin is maniacal and not easily dissuaded.   If both iOS and Android were cut off that would be devastating as the home grown mobile OS that Russia is using is terrible.   Along with other sanctions it would cripple the Russian economy.

    Putin is far from maniacal.   He is calculating.  Coldly, calculating for what is best for his country.

    In 2014 Hillary promised Ukraine a NATO membership if they left the Russian fold.
    NATO and its missiles, fighter planes, bombers, tanks, etc... on Russia's border are a direct threat to Russia -- just as they were to us in 1960 when Russia started moving them into Cuba.
    How did Putin respond to Hillary's foolishness?  By making sure she was not elected president.  And, we didn't hear anymore about NATO in Ukraine till Biden took office.

    How did Russia respond to all of that?
    Russia wanted ALL Ukrainians to have a vote - so they supported the Minsk agreement.  But western Ukraine blocked it (after agreeing to it) -- so only western Ukrainians got to vote -- and they are voting to let in NATO missiles next door to Russia.   Russia is understandably worried about that -- just as we were when missiles were shipped to Cuba in 1960 when we said:  Either remove them or there WILL BE WAR!

    The west knows better than to face Russia militarily.  So it is taking the Trump route with "sanctions".
    But, like with Trump's.  It is us who will pay the price. Oil prices are already headed up to $100.

    Meanwhile, we've been throwing economic warfare around since 2016 and those we are targeting are beginning to take action to defend themselves.  That will weaken us even further.  Actually, a LOT further when the dollar and U.S. financial systems are no longer the world standard.

    The losers in this cock fight will be, once again, us, the people.
    All we have to do is commit to never letting NATO into Ukraine and this nonsense would be at an end.  We would lose nothing and the world would gain peace.
    But no.  Instead we're starting an economic war.
    ... Stupid.   Very, very stupid.

    Such massive false equivalency can't be an accident, it has to be the result of total disingenuousness. 

    The Cuban missile crisis was about the US putting nuclear missiles in Turkey and the USSR putting nuclear missiles in Cuba. Both agreed to back away from those plans and so crisis was averted. 

    Even if Ukraine became a NATO country, the US would not place nuclear weapons there. There are only five countries outside of the US that host American nuclear weapons -- guess which they are? I'll give you a hint, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Hungary, and Lithuania (all NATO members, all formerly in the USSR or Warsaw Pact) are NOT among them. There is no honest, legit evidence or reason to worry about the US putting nukes in Ukraine. That is a massive Red Herring. 

    The only 'missiles' (ooh, scary!) that would be in Ukraine are the ones already there -- anti-tank and air defense missiles. 

    The only way in which NATO represents an 'existential threat' to Putin (not Russia) is that they are (mostly) democracies. It's not NATO weapons that Putin fears in Ukraine, it's Western ideas that Putin fears. His fear of democracy is understandable -- it would threaten his power AND he probably sees freedom as a threat to stability. 

    There certainly are realistic constraints on what the US can do in the world. We need to be careful not to overcommit. I'm sympathetic to that kind of argument. But the idea that Putin's actions or attitude are justifiable, or that everything is the fault of the US for not appeasing him enough, is just BS. 

    The biggest constrain on what the US can do is that our politics have been corrupted by both Russian and Chinese propaganda and bribes. On the right, we've got useful idiots or outright stooges working for the Russians. On the left, we occasionally have pro-Chinese shills. And then it's left to honest people to sort through all the lies. Not a great time in American history. 

    You sure about that?
    Oh FFS George.

    If you have any evidence at all to show that Ukraine is a threat to Russia, you need to post it. Otherwise, you're just doubling down on Russian propaganda, as if you would even know the difference.
  • Reply 109 of 193
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Compared to the previous Trump administration, Biden's administration is hitting nothing but home runs. But of course, Biden did have to clean up the mess that Trump left...

    Thanks for playing though.

    That's a pretty low bar to clear.
    And, to be honest, I doubt that Trump would have bungled the situation as badly as Biden has, so far, done.
    (And, trust me!  I am NOT a Trump fan)
    George, you've now gone off the rails completely, and your posts are just rambling about.

    Heck, I even remember you telling us here in the U.S. that China wasn't the problem, Russia was. So now, you're behind Russia, but you still have no understanding of what's going on. 

    Russia is weak militarily, save for their Nuclear weapons. China is the future threat, and so while this invasion of Ukraine is horrifying to the West and especially to the citizens of Ukraine, it is going to drain Russia of resources. That isn't strength, that's weakness. 

    Even China is aware of that.


    What is the problem of China? Because China wants to reunite Taiwan but it is against our plan to control China using Taiwan? LOL 
    Only George cares about what your post; I don't, and save yourself the embarrassment of complaining that I am violating your first amendment rights, as if you even know what that means.

    Bull!  You care.  You just ran out of arguments.
    phonephreak
  • Reply 110 of 193
    tmay said:
    blastdoor said:
    emoeller said:
    Putin is maniacal and not easily dissuaded.   If both iOS and Android were cut off that would be devastating as the home grown mobile OS that Russia is using is terrible.   Along with other sanctions it would cripple the Russian economy.

    Putin is far from maniacal.   He is calculating.  Coldly, calculating for what is best for his country.

    In 2014 Hillary promised Ukraine a NATO membership if they left the Russian fold.
    NATO and its missiles, fighter planes, bombers, tanks, etc... on Russia's border are a direct threat to Russia -- just as they were to us in 1960 when Russia started moving them into Cuba.
    How did Putin respond to Hillary's foolishness?  By making sure she was not elected president.  And, we didn't hear anymore about NATO in Ukraine till Biden took office.

    How did Russia respond to all of that?
    Russia wanted ALL Ukrainians to have a vote - so they supported the Minsk agreement.  But western Ukraine blocked it (after agreeing to it) -- so only western Ukrainians got to vote -- and they are voting to let in NATO missiles next door to Russia.   Russia is understandably worried about that -- just as we were when missiles were shipped to Cuba in 1960 when we said:  Either remove them or there WILL BE WAR!

    The west knows better than to face Russia militarily.  So it is taking the Trump route with "sanctions".
    But, like with Trump's.  It is us who will pay the price. Oil prices are already headed up to $100.

    Meanwhile, we've been throwing economic warfare around since 2016 and those we are targeting are beginning to take action to defend themselves.  That will weaken us even further.  Actually, a LOT further when the dollar and U.S. financial systems are no longer the world standard.

    The losers in this cock fight will be, once again, us, the people.
    All we have to do is commit to never letting NATO into Ukraine and this nonsense would be at an end.  We would lose nothing and the world would gain peace.
    But no.  Instead we're starting an economic war.
    ... Stupid.   Very, very stupid.

    Such massive false equivalency can't be an accident, it has to be the result of total disingenuousness. 

    The Cuban missile crisis was about the US putting nuclear missiles in Turkey and the USSR putting nuclear missiles in Cuba. Both agreed to back away from those plans and so crisis was averted. 

    Even if Ukraine became a NATO country, the US would not place nuclear weapons there. There are only five countries outside of the US that host American nuclear weapons -- guess which they are? I'll give you a hint, Latvia, Estonia, Poland, Hungary, and Lithuania (all NATO members, all formerly in the USSR or Warsaw Pact) are NOT among them. There is no honest, legit evidence or reason to worry about the US putting nukes in Ukraine. That is a massive Red Herring. 

    The only 'missiles' (ooh, scary!) that would be in Ukraine are the ones already there -- anti-tank and air defense missiles. 

    The only way in which NATO represents an 'existential threat' to Putin (not Russia) is that they are (mostly) democracies. It's not NATO weapons that Putin fears in Ukraine, it's Western ideas that Putin fears. His fear of democracy is understandable -- it would threaten his power AND he probably sees freedom as a threat to stability. 

    There certainly are realistic constraints on what the US can do in the world. We need to be careful not to overcommit. I'm sympathetic to that kind of argument. But the idea that Putin's actions or attitude are justifiable, or that everything is the fault of the US for not appeasing him enough, is just BS. 

    The biggest constrain on what the US can do is that our politics have been corrupted by both Russian and Chinese propaganda and bribes. On the right, we've got useful idiots or outright stooges working for the Russians. On the left, we occasionally have pro-Chinese shills. And then it's left to honest people to sort through all the lies. Not a great time in American history. 

    You sure about that?
    Oh FFS George.

    If you have any evidence at all to show that Ukraine is a threat to Russia, you need to post it. Otherwise, you're just doubling down on Russian propaganda, as if you would even know the difference.
    Can you stay focused on the real issue? It is NATO is a threat to Russia. 
  • Reply 111 of 193
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Compared to the previous Trump administration, Biden's administration is hitting nothing but home runs. But of course, Biden did have to clean up the mess that Trump left...

    Thanks for playing though.

    That's a pretty low bar to clear.
    And, to be honest, I doubt that Trump would have bungled the situation as badly as Biden has, so far, done.
    (And, trust me!  I am NOT a Trump fan)
    George, you've now gone off the rails completely, and your posts are just rambling about.

    Heck, I even remember you telling us here in the U.S. that China wasn't the problem, Russia was. So now, you're behind Russia, but you still have no understanding of what's going on. 

    Russia is weak militarily, save for their Nuclear weapons. China is the future threat, and so while this invasion of Ukraine is horrifying to the West and especially to the citizens of Ukraine, it is going to drain Russia of resources. That isn't strength, that's weakness. 

    Even China is aware of that.


    What is the problem of China? Because China wants to reunite Taiwan but it is against our plan to control China using Taiwan? LOL 
    Only George cares about what you post; I don't, and save yourself the embarrassment of complaining that I am violating your first amendment rights, as if you even know what that means.
    I agree with George. He is right. The West has promised Russia that NATO will not expand. The West broke its promise. Not only that, it attacked Yugoslavia and forcibly dismantled it into pieces. 
    The West never promised that NATO would not expand. 

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

    Hillary promised Ukraine a membership in NATO if they stiffed Russia and sided with the U.S.
    ... It's why Putin made sure she lost the election.
    Now Biden can't walk away from the commitment -- even if it means pushing war in Europe.
  • Reply 112 of 193
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    robaba said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Yes, we would be soooo much better off with Putins Puppet in office.  I’m sure that any day now the former guy would have begun pulling strings. /s
    Putin's Puppet? Haha...you're one of those people. Maybe Putin's Puppet should ask Putin for Hunter's laptop back. 
    Trump has authoritarian fantasies about Putin, et al, that even Melania probably finds disturbing, so, yeah, Trump is still Putin's Puppet, and at some point, even the GOP is going to have to give up on Putin. 

    Putin controls Trump. 
    Trump controls the GOP
    The GOP controls the U.S. (even when it doesn't have a majority)
    edited February 2022
  • Reply 113 of 193
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    robaba said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Yes, we would be soooo much better off with Putins Puppet in office.  I’m sure that any day now the former guy would have begun pulling strings. /s
    Putin's Puppet? Haha...you're one of those people. Maybe Putin's Puppet should ask Putin for Hunter's laptop back. 
    Trump has authoritarian fantasies about Putin, et al, that even Melania probably finds disturbing, so, yeah, Trump is still Putin's Puppet, and at some point, even the GOP is going to have to give up on Putin. 
    The GOP? Did you miss the 8 years under Obama? He bent over backwards for Putin. 

    No, that was 4 years under Trump -- he worshipped the guy and tried to remake the U.S. in Russia's mold.
  • Reply 114 of 193
    tmay said:
    robaba said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Yes, we would be soooo much better off with Putins Puppet in office.  I’m sure that any day now the former guy would have begun pulling strings. /s
    Putin's Puppet? Haha...you're one of those people. Maybe Putin's Puppet should ask Putin for Hunter's laptop back. 
    Trump has authoritarian fantasies about Putin, et al, that even Melania probably finds disturbing, so, yeah, Trump is still Putin's Puppet, and at some point, even the GOP is going to have to give up on Putin. 
    The GOP? Did you miss the 8 years under Obama? He bent over backwards for Putin. 

    No, that was 4 years under Trump -- he worshipped the guy and tried to remake the U.S. in Russia's mold.
    Trump's plan is using Russia against China. 
  • Reply 115 of 193
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Compared to the previous Trump administration, Biden's administration is hitting nothing but home runs. But of course, Biden did have to clean up the mess that Trump left...

    Thanks for playing though.

    That's a pretty low bar to clear.
    And, to be honest, I doubt that Trump would have bungled the situation as badly as Biden has, so far, done.
    (And, trust me!  I am NOT a Trump fan)
    George, you've now gone off the rails completely, and your posts are just rambling about.

    Heck, I even remember you telling us here in the U.S. that China wasn't the problem, Russia was. So now, you're behind Russia, but you still have no understanding of what's going on. 

    Russia is weak militarily, save for their Nuclear weapons. China is the future threat, and so while this invasion of Ukraine is horrifying to the West and especially to the citizens of Ukraine, it is going to drain Russia of resources. That isn't strength, that's weakness. 

    Even China is aware of that.


    What is the problem of China? Because China wants to reunite Taiwan but it is against our plan to control China using Taiwan? LOL 
    Only George cares about what you post; I don't, and save yourself the embarrassment of complaining that I am violating your first amendment rights, as if you even know what that means.
    I agree with George. He is right. The West has promised Russia that NATO will not expand. The West broke its promise. Not only that, it attacked Yugoslavia and forcibly dismantled it into pieces. 
    The West never promised that NATO would not expand. 

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

    Hillary promised Ukraine a membership in NATO if they stiffed Russia and sided with the U.S.
    ... It's why Putin made sure she lost the election.
    Now Biden can't walk away from the commitment -- even if it means pushing war in Europe.
    Hillary didn't promise that, and couldn't if she wanted to, because of the rules of application and membership to NATO. I already posted the relevant information.

    You don't even attempt to tell the truth, Tankie...
  • Reply 116 of 193
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Compared to the previous Trump administration, Biden's administration is hitting nothing but home runs. But of course, Biden did have to clean up the mess that Trump left...

    Thanks for playing though.

    That's a pretty low bar to clear.
    And, to be honest, I doubt that Trump would have bungled the situation as badly as Biden has, so far, done.
    (And, trust me!  I am NOT a Trump fan)
    George, you've now gone off the rails completely, and your posts are just rambling about.

    Heck, I even remember you telling us here in the U.S. that China wasn't the problem, Russia was. So now, you're behind Russia, but you still have no understanding of what's going on. 

    Russia is weak militarily, save for their Nuclear weapons. China is the future threat, and so while this invasion of Ukraine is horrifying to the West and especially to the citizens of Ukraine, it is going to drain Russia of resources. That isn't strength, that's weakness. 

    Even China is aware of that.


    What is the problem of China? Because China wants to reunite Taiwan but it is against our plan to control China using Taiwan? LOL 
    Only George cares about what you post; I don't, and save yourself the embarrassment of complaining that I am violating your first amendment rights, as if you even know what that means.
    I agree with George. He is right. The West has promised Russia that NATO will not expand. The West broke its promise. Not only that, it attacked Yugoslavia and forcibly dismantled it into pieces. 
    The West never promised that NATO would not expand. 

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

    Hillary promised Ukraine a membership in NATO if they stiffed Russia and sided with the U.S.
    ... It's why Putin made sure she lost the election.
    Now Biden can't walk away from the commitment -- even if it means pushing war in Europe.
    Hillary didn't promise that, and couldn't if she wanted to, because of the rules of application and membership to NATO. I already posted the relevant information.

    You don't even attempt to tell the truth, Tankie...
    I believe a nation can apply for NATO membership and need NATO nations approval. It is like the membership of USA. Hilary lobbied Ukraine to apply for NATO membership. 
  • Reply 117 of 193
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Compared to the previous Trump administration, Biden's administration is hitting nothing but home runs. But of course, Biden did have to clean up the mess that Trump left...

    Thanks for playing though.

    That's a pretty low bar to clear.
    And, to be honest, I doubt that Trump would have bungled the situation as badly as Biden has, so far, done.
    (And, trust me!  I am NOT a Trump fan)
    George, you've now gone off the rails completely, and your posts are just rambling about.

    Heck, I even remember you telling us here in the U.S. that China wasn't the problem, Russia was. So now, you're behind Russia, but you still have no understanding of what's going on. 

    Russia is weak militarily, save for their Nuclear weapons. China is the future threat, and so while this invasion of Ukraine is horrifying to the West and especially to the citizens of Ukraine, it is going to drain Russia of resources. That isn't strength, that's weakness. 

    Even China is aware of that.


    What is the problem of China? Because China wants to reunite Taiwan but it is against our plan to control China using Taiwan? LOL 
    Only George cares about what you post; I don't, and save yourself the embarrassment of complaining that I am violating your first amendment rights, as if you even know what that means.
    I agree with George. He is right. The West has promised Russia that NATO will not expand. The West broke its promise. Not only that, it attacked Yugoslavia and forcibly dismantled it into pieces. 
    The West never promised that NATO would not expand. 

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

    Hillary promised Ukraine a membership in NATO if they stiffed Russia and sided with the U.S.
    ... It's why Putin made sure she lost the election.
    Now Biden can't walk away from the commitment -- even if it means pushing war in Europe.
    Hillary didn't promise that, and couldn't if she wanted to, because of the rules of application and membership to NATO. I already posted the relevant information.

    You don't even attempt to tell the truth, Tankie...
    I believe a nation can apply for NATO membership and need NATO nations approval. It is like the membership of USA. Hilary lobbied Ukraine to apply for NATO membership. 
    What happened;

    US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has said that the door to Nato remains open for Ukraine. 

    Speaking after arriving in the capital, Kiev, she said Ukraine had the right to choose its own alliances.

    She will travel to Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan on a tour of former Soviet states, as well as visiting Poland.

    The trip, announced over a month ago, is intended to reaffirm relations with ex-Soviet states, after a renewal of ties between Washington and Moscow.


  • Reply 118 of 193
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Compared to the previous Trump administration, Biden's administration is hitting nothing but home runs. But of course, Biden did have to clean up the mess that Trump left...

    Thanks for playing though.

    That's a pretty low bar to clear.
    And, to be honest, I doubt that Trump would have bungled the situation as badly as Biden has, so far, done.
    (And, trust me!  I am NOT a Trump fan)
    George, you've now gone off the rails completely, and your posts are just rambling about.

    Heck, I even remember you telling us here in the U.S. that China wasn't the problem, Russia was. So now, you're behind Russia, but you still have no understanding of what's going on. 

    Russia is weak militarily, save for their Nuclear weapons. China is the future threat, and so while this invasion of Ukraine is horrifying to the West and especially to the citizens of Ukraine, it is going to drain Russia of resources. That isn't strength, that's weakness. 

    Even China is aware of that.


    What is the problem of China? Because China wants to reunite Taiwan but it is against our plan to control China using Taiwan? LOL 
    Only George cares about what you post; I don't, and save yourself the embarrassment of complaining that I am violating your first amendment rights, as if you even know what that means.
    I agree with George. He is right. The West has promised Russia that NATO will not expand. The West broke its promise. Not only that, it attacked Yugoslavia and forcibly dismantled it into pieces. 
    The West never promised that NATO would not expand. 

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

    Hillary promised Ukraine a membership in NATO if they stiffed Russia and sided with the U.S.
    ... It's why Putin made sure she lost the election.
    Now Biden can't walk away from the commitment -- even if it means pushing war in Europe.
    Hillary didn't promise that, and couldn't if she wanted to, because of the rules of application and membership to NATO. I already posted the relevant information.

    You don't even attempt to tell the truth, Tankie...
    I believe a nation can apply for NATO membership and need NATO nations approval. It is like the membership of USA. Hilary lobbied Ukraine to apply for NATO membership. 
    What happened;

    US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has said that the door to Nato remains open for Ukraine. 

    Speaking after arriving in the capital, Kiev, she said Ukraine had the right to choose its own alliances.

    She will travel to Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan on a tour of former Soviet states, as well as visiting Poland.

    The trip, announced over a month ago, is intended to reaffirm relations with ex-Soviet states, after a renewal of ties between Washington and Moscow.


    What Hilary means is as a NATO member US will approve Ukraine to join NATO. 
  • Reply 119 of 193
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Compared to the previous Trump administration, Biden's administration is hitting nothing but home runs. But of course, Biden did have to clean up the mess that Trump left...

    Thanks for playing though.

    That's a pretty low bar to clear.
    And, to be honest, I doubt that Trump would have bungled the situation as badly as Biden has, so far, done.
    (And, trust me!  I am NOT a Trump fan)
    George, you've now gone off the rails completely, and your posts are just rambling about.

    Heck, I even remember you telling us here in the U.S. that China wasn't the problem, Russia was. So now, you're behind Russia, but you still have no understanding of what's going on. 

    Russia is weak militarily, save for their Nuclear weapons. China is the future threat, and so while this invasion of Ukraine is horrifying to the West and especially to the citizens of Ukraine, it is going to drain Russia of resources. That isn't strength, that's weakness. 

    Even China is aware of that.


    What is the problem of China? Because China wants to reunite Taiwan but it is against our plan to control China using Taiwan? LOL 
    Only George cares about what you post; I don't, and save yourself the embarrassment of complaining that I am violating your first amendment rights, as if you even know what that means.
    I agree with George. He is right. The West has promised Russia that NATO will not expand. The West broke its promise. Not only that, it attacked Yugoslavia and forcibly dismantled it into pieces. 
    The West never promised that NATO would not expand. 

    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/

    Hillary promised Ukraine a membership in NATO if they stiffed Russia and sided with the U.S.
    ... It's why Putin made sure she lost the election.
    Now Biden can't walk away from the commitment -- even if it means pushing war in Europe.
    Hillary didn't promise that, and couldn't if she wanted to, because of the rules of application and membership to NATO. I already posted the relevant information.

    You don't even attempt to tell the truth, Tankie...
    I believe a nation can apply for NATO membership and need NATO nations approval. It is like the membership of USA. Hilary lobbied Ukraine to apply for NATO membership. 
    What happened;

    US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has said that the door to Nato remains open for Ukraine. 

    Speaking after arriving in the capital, Kiev, she said Ukraine had the right to choose its own alliances.

    She will travel to Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan on a tour of former Soviet states, as well as visiting Poland.

    The trip, announced over a month ago, is intended to reaffirm relations with ex-Soviet states, after a renewal of ties between Washington and Moscow.


    What Hilary means is as a NATO member US will approve Ukraine to join NATO. 
    I don't know what Hillary means, but if the Ukraine applied, the US would likely consider membership for Ukraine. 
  • Reply 120 of 193
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    robaba said:
    genovelle said:
    tmay said:
    danox said:
    Weak. 

    Gotta love the pundits Talking up this cop out like it’s something amazing. 

    America is supposed to be the international policeman. Walking softly but carrying a big stick to use when necessary. 

    Instead of defending freedom, we stand by and watch it crushed while shaking dollar signs the the bad guys with missiles. 

    Putin has China as an ally and Russia counterfeits American goods anyway. This isn’t going to do squat unfortunately. 

    Sanctions suck. Go and do some good in the world. Add the sanctions to that. 

    You let a bully beat up other kids and he just gets worse. Not looking good. 

    God help Ukraine. 

    Ukraine had 20 years before Putin to get their corrupt selves together they didn’t, see Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania for a lesson on how it’s done….They thought they were special….
    I'll repost this;

    To the surprise of everyone in Moscow, Kyiv, Brussels, and Washington, Yanukovych’s decision to scuttle this agreement with the EU triggered mass demonstrations in Ukraine again, bringing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians into the streets in what would become known as the Euromaidan or “Revolution of Dignity” to protest Yanukovych’s turn away from the democratic West. The street protests lasted several weeks, punctuated by the killing of dozens of peaceful protestors by Yanukovych’s government, the eventual collapse of that government and Yanukovych’s flight to Russia in February 2014, and a new pro-Western government taking power in Kyiv. Putin had “lost” Ukraine for the second time in a decade.
    Yeah, having that shot at democracy in 2014 hasn't worked out perfectly, but it is evident that Ukraine wants to succeed. Putin can't allow that, hence, the invasion.
    Putin has succeeded in further dividing the US and helping diminish us as a beacon for democracy, so he is attempting to use this moment in time to make his move. 
    When you have a President who's foreign policy has been a complete disaster, it makes sense Putin would make his move for Ukraine. Putin is essentially playing chess while Biden is playing checkers. Putin was probably laughing histerically as Biden announced the sanctions that will do nothing to stop Russia. 
    Yes, we would be soooo much better off with Putins Puppet in office.  I’m sure that any day now the former guy would have begun pulling strings. /s
    Putin's Puppet? Haha...you're one of those people. Maybe Putin's Puppet should ask Putin for Hunter's laptop back. 
    Trump has authoritarian fantasies about Putin, et al, that even Melania probably finds disturbing, so, yeah, Trump is still Putin's Puppet, and at some point, even the GOP is going to have to give up on Putin. 
    The GOP? Did you miss the 8 years under Obama? He bent over backwards for Putin. 
    Did you miss the 8 years under Bush Jr.?

    I'm realistic. Neither party has been overly concerned enough about Putin, nor have they intervened when they had the option to. That is changing fast, but in the current case, it is almost entirely GOP Trump supporters, and Trump that are fully backing Putin's invasions.

    That's just fucked up.
    We obviously disagree politically, but you are right, neither party has really done enough. At the same time, it doesn't seem like NATO is willing to do more either. The sanctions just announced yesterday are not nearly enough. I disagree with that statement. Unless I missed it in the news, I haven't seen anything where Trump is actually backing Putin on invading Ukraine. That would be pretty ridiculous if he did. 
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