Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.
Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc.
The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.
It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.
Demographically speaking, China will be disappearing in the next ten years - probably sooner.
When you're a primarily agrarian society, you have lots of kids because you need the free labor to work the land and they're your retirement program.
When you industrialize and move into cities, kids are an expense - and if you're China and had a mandatory one child policy - you're waaayyy below the 2.1 children per family needed to sustain the population. China has overcounted their population by at least 100 million and their demographic pyramid shows they've got a rapidly aging workforce going into retirement with a very small number of children to support them all.
Russia's not far behind because no one wants to have kids in Russia, and the European powerhouses are following close on their heels behind Russia.
Germany's industries were all based on cheap Russian gas and a lot of that industry is trying to relocate to the United States where cheap gas still exists.
The saving demographic grace in the United States is the suburbs where US citizens continued to have kids, and the transition from agrarian to urban took place over a longer span of time.
BTW, Peter thinks that Apple is going away because they constantly made the wrong choice by staying in China, but being that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world I'm betting that they can bribe enough officials to keep the door open long enough for them and much of their supply chain to make their escape.
Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.
Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc.
The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.
It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.
Demographically speaking, China will be disappearing in the next ten years - probably sooner.
When you're a primarily agrarian society, you have lots of kids because you need the free labor to work the land and they're your retirement program.
When you industrialize and move into cities, kids are an expense - and if you're China and had a mandatory one child policy - you're waaayyy below the 2.1 children per family needed to sustain the population. China has overcounted their population by at least 100 million and their demographic pyramid shows they've got a rapidly aging workforce going into retirement with a very small number of children to support them all.
Russia's not far behind because no one wants to have kids in Russia, and the European powerhouses are following close on their heels behind Russia.
Germany's industries were all based on cheap Russian gas and a lot of that industry is trying to relocate to the United States where cheap gas still exists.
The saving demographic grace in the United States is the suburbs where US citizens continued to have kids, and the transition from agrarian to urban took place over a longer span of time.
BTW, Peter thinks that Apple is going away because they constantly made the wrong choice by staying in China, but being that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world I'm betting that they can bribe enough officials to keep the door open long enough for them and much of their supply chain to make their escape.
I'd argue that the supply chain, which employs millions of relatively well paid Chinese workers, is the reason that Apple is still allowed.
I try and catch Peter every morning, and I also watch Joe Blog, plus a few lesser known economists and economic observers. China didn't get rich before it got old, and worse, it is under a totalitarian leader,
Tom's Hardware had post that I found very interesting as it confirmed what had been both expected and rumored;
Every time I read one of these EU stories I try to think about what Apple should do to deal with this situation. It’s tempting to say Apple should just leave, but it doesn’t make sense to leave money on the table.
They won't be leaving money on the table by pulling out of the EU. First, the EU is just a fraction of what Apple classifies as "Europe" (which includes the Middle East and at least parts, if not all, of Africa), and obviously doesn't include European countries not in the EU, such as the UK and Switzerland. The fines the EU is threatening far eclipse the value of the EU as a market. Second, if EU rules force Apple to cripple, compromise or otherwise dumb down their products, that makes them less competitive in the rest of the world. There is at this point almost no upside for Apple to release anything in the EU and plenty of downside, not to mention all the resources wasted "negotiating" with EU bureaucrats who are not acting in good faith and are making up the rules as the go and changing them retroactively.
So, what exactly is the downside for Apple to simply pull out of the EU until there is a more favorable business climate there? I can't see any upside to staying at this point.
I’ve read that the EU represents about 7% of Apple’s revenues. That’s almost $30 billion a year. I see no reason to walk away from that if you don’t have to.
Note that my suggestion to create a subsidiary is meant to create EU-specific (lobotomized) versions of apple products to meet the needs of Eurocrats.
The question is — can Apple make money selling lobotomized products? Since everyone else also has to sell lobotomized products in the EU, it’s possible that they can. But if it turns out they can’t, then sure — leave. But I think it makes sense to try first.
Companies that don’t try to do hard things end up like IBM — slowly leaving every market that seems too hard to fight for.
Do the products have to altered if the user imports them from a un-regulated market? Euro being a world hub might not work out so well. Every tourist can fly in with a phone fly home without.
EU commission head is targeting Apple either because she has clandestinely sided with its competitors or as a means to milk American companies which are far ahead of European counterparts. EU is literally finding ways to squeeze money out of American tech giants. EU s policies are based on protectionism and jealousy towards Big American brands. This is awful and anyone with common sense can understand. Interoperability- nonsense. Next, make iMovie compatible with android. Why does not Microsoft make windows compatible with Mac? Why no android on iPhone. All nonsensical hogwash
The EU commission requires owners of market-dominating operating systems not to set their own browsers as the default, but to show users a selection of competing browsers during setup, from which they should choose one as the default.
The EU commission wants the owners of the market-dominating operating systems not to prevent app developers from advertising the sale of licenses in their own apps.
European iOS and iPadOS users shall become free to choose who they want to buy apps and content from. Apple shall not stay the monopoly reseller of apps for iOS and iPadOS in the EU. The EU does not want Apple to be able to continue to prevent certain apps from being available on iOS and iPadOS. European Users of iOS and iPadOS shall become able to freely develop, distribute, install, sell and buy apps for iOS and iPadOS.
That is more freedom for European users, that is more freedom for developers all over the world who want to sell apps for iOS and iPadOS in the EU, that is less freedom for Apple in the EU.
The EU commission demands that the owners of the market-dominating operating systems do not use the APIs of the operating systems exclusively for themselves, but that the owners of these operating systems allow all app developers to use the APIs of the operating systems so that there are more better applications that run on all operating systems.
The EU commission does not require Apple to develop apps for other operating systems.
First point: I don't think anyone has much of an issue with this. The EU does also require Apple to allow browsers to use their own engine.
Second: Not sure why the EU thinks this is important. Advertising licenses inside an app is not typical for any platform. Smartphone users also have access to all kinds of information outside of apps and the App Store on the same device...internet, social media, email, text messages, direct messages etc. Basically, you have to pretend that smartphone users aren't aware that they can get information about developers and their products/services anywhere other than inside apps or the App Store in order to think this is important.
Third: Apple monopolizes app distribution because iOS/iPadOS and iPhone/iPad hardware are their own IP. That formula has been around for decades and was never previously considered to be anti-competitive since there is a high degree of difficulty in achieving success with it commercially. Think of all the various video game consoles that have either flopped or been unable to maintain viability in the long run. Think of Microsoft's attempt at a smartphone. It's not a magic formula for market dominance. Apple does have limits for what it allows to be sold in the App Store but that is true of any store...digital or brick/mortar. For the most part though, it's really the app developers that choose whether or not to provide their apps on iOS. Example: Microsoft made a big stink about its game streaming app not being allowed on the App Store but they had never previously ported 1st party games to the App Store either. They preferred to limit their own gaming apps to Windows/Xbox.
Fourth: Requiring access to APIs across the board is kind of an odd stance since not every API can be linked to market competition. I can see how it makes sense for something like NFC/Wallet or the browser engine aspect, i.e., targeted situations. This seems like a big overreach on the part of the EU similar to the third point above.
Great points.
No one goes to target or wal mart to find information about what else is available from a handbag maker - or if there are any vendor-specific sales better than what’s at that brick and mortar store.
They use the internet, advertising in tv, radio, direct mail, etc.
when you go to a Mercedes dealership, they don’t have to post up signs telling you that a certain bmw can be had cheaper for similar horsepower, etc.
in the smartphone, you have the whole internet at your disposal. People know what search engines and websites are. Sheesh. It’s not kindergarten where you don’t know something unless it’s in front of you at all times.
It’s really quite embarrassing that the eu is forcing a tech company to divert customers to vendors own separate stores -inside their own store.
It’s a solution looking for a problem and has indeed become the problem.
Brick and mortar stores have digital storefronts/apps. To be fair, that’s a digital market and would need to force them to have a sign next to the Kilauea bananas item in the apps that directed them to Klause’s stall down the street where he sells cheaper because of less overhead. It’s the height of stupidity.
In the EU, apart from the youngest children, almost 100 percent of citizens use a smartphone. No more than 30 percent of EU citizens use games consoles.
Smartphones are (vitally) important. Game consoles are not important.
Smartphones are now regulated in the EU. Games consoles may be regulated later.
There are two operating systems for smartphones: Android and iOS. Alphabet/Google and Apple have a duopoly here.
Google and Apple have agreed that the Google search engine will be the default setting on all smartphones. They made it obvious that they want to manipulate the owners of smartphones in order so squeeze money out of them.
A smartphone is a computer that is connected to the Internet and GPS and can be used to make phone calls, take photos, navigate, chat, read and listen.
Anyone who has bought a computer for 1000+ dollars/euros in the EU shall now be able to decide freely in the EU from whom they buy software for this computer.
The EU has changed the law exactly for this. It doesn't matter what was allowed before. Now it's different. There is a new law.
The EU wants freedom for EU citizens who own computers called smartphones. The owners of the computers shall decide where they buy software. Not Google. Not Apple.
Apple doesn't want that. A minority of Apple users in the EU don't want that either, because they are afraid. The majority of citizens in the EU, however, want to be free to decide from whom they can buy software for their computers that they have already paid for.
The EU wants this rule to apply to both Android and Apple. That's just how it works. This is not unusual in the EU.
You are living in a fantasy world of wishful thinking. Android has always allowed third party app stores and side loading. So where are all the app stores in Android that Android mobile phone users are flocking to, to buy their apps from? Why do over 80% of Android users only use the Google Play Store to get their apps? Why is Google Play Store still a monopoly on Android? Why don't the likes of Starbucks, Spotify, Netflix, banks, retailers, CC, stock traders, Whatsapp, Facebook, online stores, etc., open their own app stores to distribute their free apps on Android or have their customers side load or have it available in other app stores? So all Android customers can choose where or how to install their apps? Why haven't Google been forced to lower their commission due to competition from other apps stores and sideloading? You think it's going to be different with iOS?
The bottom line is that over 90% of apps on both platforms app stores are free. There is no way that any other app store can afford to offer as many free apps. But free apps is what draws the "foot traffic" to the Apple App Store and Google Play Store. So why should any of the developers that sells apps, want to offer them in other apps stores that won't even have nearly the "foot traffic" as the Apple App Store and Google Play Store? And why should any of the developers of free apps, want to offer their free apps in any other app stores that few Android users will visit 9much less trust) or have their customer sideload it?
This isn't about giving the consumers more choice. With Android, consumers already have those choices and have already chosen that they want to get their apps from the Google Play Store, whenever possible and only get it from elsewhere when forced to. This is about giving developers more choice because they want to avoid paying any commission for the commercial use of IP that they don't own or their apps do not pass the policies of the Google Play Store or Apple App Store. Policies that are put in place to protect the users that installs the app on to their devices.
Can EU iOS users look forward to having more choices of app stores and being able to choose what ever app they want to install on their iDevice in the next few years, like from these app stores?
This isn't about making the EU forcing both Android and Apple to obey the rules. This is about forcing Apple to be more like Android and thus removing the choice for EU consumers to use a mobile OS that is safer, more secure and with better privacy protection.
When including all OS's, Windows is the most malware infected. Android is a close second. OSX (MacOS) is a distance third or fifth. With iOS having multiple times less malware that even OSX. And guess which of these are on devices that are the least like a desktop computer, that you think smartphones should be like?
If the EU was concern about the consumers, they would force Android to be more like iOS, not the other way around. But alas, the EU is more concern about the developers. Funny how the EU enforces one of the strictest (the probably the best) consumer data privacy protection regulations in the World and yet willing to look the other way when it comes to a mobile OS that has proven over time to be more private and secure than the mobile OS they are forcing it to be like.
BTW- and the majority of citizens in the EU that wants to be free to decide
from whom they can buy software for their computers that they have
already paid for, can do this by buying an Android phone. And the fact that more than 75% of the EU citizens are using an Android phone proves that Apple in not forcing anyone to use iPhones. And if the majority of EU iPhone users also wants this, why don't they switch to an Android phone? Why did they buy an iPhone to begin with, if that's what they wanted? iOS have been the same for over 10 years. What apps are on an iPhone, that can't be found (or least similar ones) on an Android phone?
It is absolutely about choice and absolutely about competition.
"This isn't about giving the consumers more choice. With Android, consumers already have those choices and have already chosen that they want to get their apps from the Google Play Store, whenever possible and only get it from elsewhere when forced to. This is about giving developers more choice because they want to avoid paying any commission for the commercial use of IP that they don't own or their apps do not pass the policies of the Google Play Store or Apple App Store. Policies that are put in place to protect the users that installs the app on to their devices."
In a digital age where an established 'duopoly' is stifling competition and limiting choice, you are swimming very much against the current with any attempt to say users have 'choice' because Android offers some of the basics that the DMA requires. We are seeing investigations worldwide. That not coincidence. There is a very real problem to deal with and the DSA/DMA is just a first effort.
It isn't about IP. It's about leveling the playing field.
It would be nice if Apple actually put a 'price' on its IP and let developers actually see if its worthwhile paying for it instead of wrapping it all up to the point where competition is lost in the smoke.
Apple had its cake and ate most of it for too many years. The EU is working for a fairer situation for all. As are authorities in many other regions.
Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.
Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc.
The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.
It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.
Demographically speaking, China will be disappearing in the next ten years - probably sooner.
When you're a primarily agrarian society, you have lots of kids because you need the free labor to work the land and they're your retirement program.
When you industrialize and move into cities, kids are an expense - and if you're China and had a mandatory one child policy - you're waaayyy below the 2.1 children per family needed to sustain the population. China has overcounted their population by at least 100 million and their demographic pyramid shows they've got a rapidly aging workforce going into retirement with a very small number of children to support them all.
Russia's not far behind because no one wants to have kids in Russia, and the European powerhouses are following close on their heels behind Russia.
Germany's industries were all based on cheap Russian gas and a lot of that industry is trying to relocate to the United States where cheap gas still exists.
The saving demographic grace in the United States is the suburbs where US citizens continued to have kids, and the transition from agrarian to urban took place over a longer span of time.
BTW, Peter thinks that Apple is going away because they constantly made the wrong choice by staying in China, but being that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world I'm betting that they can bribe enough officials to keep the door open long enough for them and much of their supply chain to make their escape.
I'd argue that the supply chain, which employs millions of relatively well paid Chinese workers, is the reason that Apple is still allowed.
I try and catch Peter every morning, and I also watch Joe Blog, plus a few lesser known economists and economic observers. China didn't get rich before it got old, and worse, it is under a totalitarian leader,
Tom's Hardware had post that I found very interesting as it confirmed what had been both expected and rumored;
Huawei reportedly facing bad AI chip yields for processors made at Chinese fab SMIC: Report
Four out of five Ascend 910B AI processors reportedly have defects.
And how is that relevant to an article on the EU???
Some background that you will find even more 'interesting' and something you casually failed to mention.
I won't respond to any more of your thread derailing attempts.
The Ascend 910B has been in production for a while now. Yields are an issue at SMIC but it's old news.
I seriously doubt the 4 out of 5 claim but even if it were true, it still means the defective parts can very likely be used elsewhere.
The story behind the yields is demand which is very high, and even late last year (when this news actually first hit the internet) most orders had already been shipped!
In fact, Baidu alone is claimed to have ordered 1,600 Ascend 910B chips in August last year - with over 60% already shipped when the news broke. iFlyTek placed another large order and domestic demand hasn't slipped since either.
Just last week Huawei said the immediate focus is not on nodes but optimisation although there have been persistent rumours of a 5nm chip this year.
That's because parallel to current manufacturing capacity at SMIC, Huawei is building out a gigantic multi-billion dollar chip development and R&D facility in Shanghai. They are simply in the process of bringing everything together. As TSMC in the US knows, it takes time to build huge facilities.
It's almost finished now and you don't put that kind of project into operation on a whim. Clearly, it will serve a purpose.
The car division is also seeing massive YoY order growth and earlier this year it was the Huawei MDC chip (Ascend) solutions that were unable to keep up with demand. That seems to have been balanced out now but demand is still growing as new models come to market.
And more recently the Stelato S9 which is aiming for 120,000 unit capacity for the luxury model.
Plus booming sales of the Mate 60/Pura 70 phone series.
Capacity to satisfy such demand is always going to be an issue if demand doesn't fall off, but I'd say that's a nice problem to have.
Nvidia mentioned a company and described it as a formidable competitor. That was Huawei. I'd say Nvidia has its finger on the AI Chip pulse better than you.
Even with yield issues, Huawei is taking sales away from them. Do you think yields (independent of current state) have improved or worsened since last year?
I ask because more and more HiSilicon chipsets are rolling out of SMIC.
If you read Zeihan every day without contrasting his views you have a seriously unbalanced viewpoint. At the very least you should be taking in some of commentary debunking what he says. Then, and only then, should you form an opinion.
He's an author trying to sell books. He's a content creator trying to sell views. And hasn't he been saying the same thing forever without it actually happening?
Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.
Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc.
The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.
It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.
Demographically speaking, China will be disappearing in the next ten years - probably sooner.
When you're a primarily agrarian society, you have lots of kids because you need the free labor to work the land and they're your retirement program.
When you industrialize and move into cities, kids are an expense - and if you're China and had a mandatory one child policy - you're waaayyy below the 2.1 children per family needed to sustain the population. China has overcounted their population by at least 100 million and their demographic pyramid shows they've got a rapidly aging workforce going into retirement with a very small number of children to support them all.
Russia's not far behind because no one wants to have kids in Russia, and the European powerhouses are following close on their heels behind Russia.
Germany's industries were all based on cheap Russian gas and a lot of that industry is trying to relocate to the United States where cheap gas still exists.
The saving demographic grace in the United States is the suburbs where US citizens continued to have kids, and the transition from agrarian to urban took place over a longer span of time.
BTW, Peter thinks that Apple is going away because they constantly made the wrong choice by staying in China, but being that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world I'm betting that they can bribe enough officials to keep the door open long enough for them and much of their supply chain to make their escape.
I'd argue that the supply chain, which employs millions of relatively well paid Chinese workers, is the reason that Apple is still allowed.
I try and catch Peter every morning, and I also watch Joe Blog, plus a few lesser known economists and economic observers. China didn't get rich before it got old, and worse, it is under a totalitarian leader,
Tom's Hardware had post that I found very interesting as it confirmed what had been both expected and rumored;
Huawei reportedly facing bad AI chip yields for processors made at Chinese fab SMIC: Report
Four out of five Ascend 910B AI processors reportedly have defects.
And how is that relevant to an article on the EU???
Some background that you will find even more 'interesting' and something you casually failed to mention.
I won't respond to any more of your thread derailing attempts.
The Ascend 910B has been in production for a while now. Yields are an issue at SMIC but it's old news.
I seriously doubt the 4 out of 5 claim but even if it were true, it still means the defective parts can very likely be used elsewhere.
The story behind the yields is demand which is very high, and even late last year (when this news actually first hit the internet) most orders had already been shipped!
In fact, Baidu alone is claimed to have ordered 1,600 Ascend 910B chips in August last year - with over 60% already shipped when the news broke. iFlyTek placed another large order and domestic demand hasn't slipped since either.
Just last week Huawei said the immediate focus is not on nodes but optimisation although there have been persistent rumours of a 5nm chip this year.
That's because parallel to current manufacturing capacity at SMIC, Huawei is building out a gigantic multi-billion dollar chip development and R&D facility in Shanghai. They are simply in the process of bringing everything together. As TSMC in the US knows, it takes time to build huge facilities.
It's almost finished now and you don't put that kind of project into operation on a whim. Clearly, it will serve a purpose.
The car division is also seeing massive YoY order growth and earlier this year it was the Huawei MDC chip (Ascend) solutions that were unable to keep up with demand. That seems to have been balanced out now but demand is still growing as new models come to market.
And more recently the Stelato S9 which is aiming for 120,000 unit capacity for the luxury model.
Plus booming sales of the Mate 60/Pura 70 phone series.
Capacity to satisfy such demand is always going to be an issue if demand doesn't fall off, but I'd say that's a nice problem to have.
Nvidia mentioned a company and described it as a formidable competitor. That was Huawei. I'd say Nvidia has its finger on the AI Chip pulse better than you.
Even with yield issues, Huawei is taking sales away from them. Do you think yields (independent of current state) have improved or worsened since last year?
I ask because more and more HiSilicon chipsets are rolling out of SMIC.
If you read Zeihan every day without contrasting his views you have a seriously unbalanced viewpoint. At the very least you should be taking in some of commentary debunking what he says. Then, and only then, should you form an opinion.
He's an author trying to sell books. He's a content creator trying to sell views. And hasn't he been saying the same thing forever without it actually happening?
But don't answer that. This is about the EU.
Pretty sure that even you would agree that Western investment, notably EU investment, in semiconductor tech is worthwhile, and the fact that Huawei, SMIC, et al, are having difficulty transitioning to 5nm DUV multi patterning, kind of supports those investmenst. See ASML stock, indicating that sales are very good, without China.
You seem unaware that China's economy has slowed greatly, and Verne noted that China likely overstated its population by 100m, which I have also seen. I don't worry about debunking Zeihan, and you evidently don't either, since this would be an opportunity to do so.
Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.
Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc.
The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.
It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.
Demographically speaking, China will be disappearing in the next ten years - probably sooner.
When you're a primarily agrarian society, you have lots of kids because you need the free labor to work the land and they're your retirement program.
When you industrialize and move into cities, kids are an expense - and if you're China and had a mandatory one child policy - you're waaayyy below the 2.1 children per family needed to sustain the population. China has overcounted their population by at least 100 million and their demographic pyramid shows they've got a rapidly aging workforce going into retirement with a very small number of children to support them all.
Russia's not far behind because no one wants to have kids in Russia, and the European powerhouses are following close on their heels behind Russia.
Germany's industries were all based on cheap Russian gas and a lot of that industry is trying to relocate to the United States where cheap gas still exists.
The saving demographic grace in the United States is the suburbs where US citizens continued to have kids, and the transition from agrarian to urban took place over a longer span of time.
BTW, Peter thinks that Apple is going away because they constantly made the wrong choice by staying in China, but being that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world I'm betting that they can bribe enough officials to keep the door open long enough for them and much of their supply chain to make their escape.
I'd argue that the supply chain, which employs millions of relatively well paid Chinese workers, is the reason that Apple is still allowed.
I try and catch Peter every morning, and I also watch Joe Blog, plus a few lesser known economists and economic observers. China didn't get rich before it got old, and worse, it is under a totalitarian leader,
Tom's Hardware had post that I found very interesting as it confirmed what had been both expected and rumored;
Huawei reportedly facing bad AI chip yields for processors made at Chinese fab SMIC: Report
Four out of five Ascend 910B AI processors reportedly have defects.
And how is that relevant to an article on the EU???
Some background that you will find even more 'interesting' and something you casually failed to mention.
I won't respond to any more of your thread derailing attempts.
The Ascend 910B has been in production for a while now. Yields are an issue at SMIC but it's old news.
I seriously doubt the 4 out of 5 claim but even if it were true, it still means the defective parts can very likely be used elsewhere.
The story behind the yields is demand which is very high, and even late last year (when this news actually first hit the internet) most orders had already been shipped!
In fact, Baidu alone is claimed to have ordered 1,600 Ascend 910B chips in August last year - with over 60% already shipped when the news broke. iFlyTek placed another large order and domestic demand hasn't slipped since either.
Just last week Huawei said the immediate focus is not on nodes but optimisation although there have been persistent rumours of a 5nm chip this year.
That's because parallel to current manufacturing capacity at SMIC, Huawei is building out a gigantic multi-billion dollar chip development and R&D facility in Shanghai. They are simply in the process of bringing everything together. As TSMC in the US knows, it takes time to build huge facilities.
It's almost finished now and you don't put that kind of project into operation on a whim. Clearly, it will serve a purpose.
The car division is also seeing massive YoY order growth and earlier this year it was the Huawei MDC chip (Ascend) solutions that were unable to keep up with demand. That seems to have been balanced out now but demand is still growing as new models come to market.
And more recently the Stelato S9 which is aiming for 120,000 unit capacity for the luxury model.
Plus booming sales of the Mate 60/Pura 70 phone series.
Capacity to satisfy such demand is always going to be an issue if demand doesn't fall off, but I'd say that's a nice problem to have.
Nvidia mentioned a company and described it as a formidable competitor. That was Huawei. I'd say Nvidia has its finger on the AI Chip pulse better than you.
Even with yield issues, Huawei is taking sales away from them. Do you think yields (independent of current state) have improved or worsened since last year?
I ask because more and more HiSilicon chipsets are rolling out of SMIC.
If you read Zeihan every day without contrasting his views you have a seriously unbalanced viewpoint. At the very least you should be taking in some of commentary debunking what he says. Then, and only then, should you form an opinion.
He's an author trying to sell books. He's a content creator trying to sell views. And hasn't he been saying the same thing forever without it actually happening?
But don't answer that. This is about the EU.
Pretty sure that even you would agree that Western investment, notably EU investment, in semiconductor tech is worthwhile, and the fact that Huawei, SMIC, et al, are having difficulty transitioning to 5nm DUV multi patterning, kind of supports those investmenst. See ASML stock, indicating that sales are very good, without China.
You seem unaware that China's economy has slowed greatly, and Verne noted that China likely overstated its population by 100m, which I have also seen. I don't worry about debunking Zeihan, and you evidently don't either, since this would be an opportunity to do so.
Frankly, Zeihan has no credibility left (not that he ever had much to start with) and you having read something somewhere (given where you are picking up news from) is worthless.
I didn't link to the huge amount of Zeihan debunking because this is about the EU!
Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.
Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc.
The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.
It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.
Demographically speaking, China will be disappearing in the next ten years - probably sooner.
When you're a primarily agrarian society, you have lots of kids because you need the free labor to work the land and they're your retirement program.
When you industrialize and move into cities, kids are an expense - and if you're China and had a mandatory one child policy - you're waaayyy below the 2.1 children per family needed to sustain the population. China has overcounted their population by at least 100 million and their demographic pyramid shows they've got a rapidly aging workforce going into retirement with a very small number of children to support them all.
Russia's not far behind because no one wants to have kids in Russia, and the European powerhouses are following close on their heels behind Russia.
Germany's industries were all based on cheap Russian gas and a lot of that industry is trying to relocate to the United States where cheap gas still exists.
The saving demographic grace in the United States is the suburbs where US citizens continued to have kids, and the transition from agrarian to urban took place over a longer span of time.
BTW, Peter thinks that Apple is going away because they constantly made the wrong choice by staying in China, but being that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world I'm betting that they can bribe enough officials to keep the door open long enough for them and much of their supply chain to make their escape.
I'd argue that the supply chain, which employs millions of relatively well paid Chinese workers, is the reason that Apple is still allowed.
I try and catch Peter every morning, and I also watch Joe Blog, plus a few lesser known economists and economic observers. China didn't get rich before it got old, and worse, it is under a totalitarian leader,
Tom's Hardware had post that I found very interesting as it confirmed what had been both expected and rumored;
Huawei reportedly facing bad AI chip yields for processors made at Chinese fab SMIC: Report
Four out of five Ascend 910B AI processors reportedly have defects.
And how is that relevant to an article on the EU???
Some background that you will find even more 'interesting' and something you casually failed to mention.
I won't respond to any more of your thread derailing attempts.
The Ascend 910B has been in production for a while now. Yields are an issue at SMIC but it's old news.
I seriously doubt the 4 out of 5 claim but even if it were true, it still means the defective parts can very likely be used elsewhere.
The story behind the yields is demand which is very high, and even late last year (when this news actually first hit the internet) most orders had already been shipped!
In fact, Baidu alone is claimed to have ordered 1,600 Ascend 910B chips in August last year - with over 60% already shipped when the news broke. iFlyTek placed another large order and domestic demand hasn't slipped since either.
Just last week Huawei said the immediate focus is not on nodes but optimisation although there have been persistent rumours of a 5nm chip this year.
That's because parallel to current manufacturing capacity at SMIC, Huawei is building out a gigantic multi-billion dollar chip development and R&D facility in Shanghai. They are simply in the process of bringing everything together. As TSMC in the US knows, it takes time to build huge facilities.
It's almost finished now and you don't put that kind of project into operation on a whim. Clearly, it will serve a purpose.
The car division is also seeing massive YoY order growth and earlier this year it was the Huawei MDC chip (Ascend) solutions that were unable to keep up with demand. That seems to have been balanced out now but demand is still growing as new models come to market.
And more recently the Stelato S9 which is aiming for 120,000 unit capacity for the luxury model.
Plus booming sales of the Mate 60/Pura 70 phone series.
Capacity to satisfy such demand is always going to be an issue if demand doesn't fall off, but I'd say that's a nice problem to have.
Nvidia mentioned a company and described it as a formidable competitor. That was Huawei. I'd say Nvidia has its finger on the AI Chip pulse better than you.
Even with yield issues, Huawei is taking sales away from them. Do you think yields (independent of current state) have improved or worsened since last year?
I ask because more and more HiSilicon chipsets are rolling out of SMIC.
If you read Zeihan every day without contrasting his views you have a seriously unbalanced viewpoint. At the very least you should be taking in some of commentary debunking what he says. Then, and only then, should you form an opinion.
He's an author trying to sell books. He's a content creator trying to sell views. And hasn't he been saying the same thing forever without it actually happening?
But don't answer that. This is about the EU.
Pretty sure that even you would agree that Western investment, notably EU investment, in semiconductor tech is worthwhile, and the fact that Huawei, SMIC, et al, are having difficulty transitioning to 5nm DUV multi patterning, kind of supports those investmenst. See ASML stock, indicating that sales are very good, without China.
You seem unaware that China's economy has slowed greatly, and Verne noted that China likely overstated its population by 100m, which I have also seen. I don't worry about debunking Zeihan, and you evidently don't either, since this would be an opportunity to do so.
Frankly, Zeihan has no credibility left (not that he ever had much to start with) and you having read something somewhere (given where you are picking up news from) is worthless.
I didn't link to the huge amount of Zeihan debunking because this is about the EU!
The same with the Ascend 910B.
It isn't the place.
LOL!
You always go with the "it isn't the place" when you are wrong.,,
You are much too invested in China, and even the EU is having to roll back its relationship with China.
Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.
Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc.
The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.
It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.
Demographically speaking, China will be disappearing in the next ten years - probably sooner.
When you're a primarily agrarian society, you have lots of kids because you need the free labor to work the land and they're your retirement program.
When you industrialize and move into cities, kids are an expense - and if you're China and had a mandatory one child policy - you're waaayyy below the 2.1 children per family needed to sustain the population. China has overcounted their population by at least 100 million and their demographic pyramid shows they've got a rapidly aging workforce going into retirement with a very small number of children to support them all.
Russia's not far behind because no one wants to have kids in Russia, and the European powerhouses are following close on their heels behind Russia.
Germany's industries were all based on cheap Russian gas and a lot of that industry is trying to relocate to the United States where cheap gas still exists.
The saving demographic grace in the United States is the suburbs where US citizens continued to have kids, and the transition from agrarian to urban took place over a longer span of time.
BTW, Peter thinks that Apple is going away because they constantly made the wrong choice by staying in China, but being that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world I'm betting that they can bribe enough officials to keep the door open long enough for them and much of their supply chain to make their escape.
I'd argue that the supply chain, which employs millions of relatively well paid Chinese workers, is the reason that Apple is still allowed.
I try and catch Peter every morning, and I also watch Joe Blog, plus a few lesser known economists and economic observers. China didn't get rich before it got old, and worse, it is under a totalitarian leader,
Tom's Hardware had post that I found very interesting as it confirmed what had been both expected and rumored;
Huawei reportedly facing bad AI chip yields for processors made at Chinese fab SMIC: Report
Four out of five Ascend 910B AI processors reportedly have defects.
And how is that relevant to an article on the EU???
Some background that you will find even more 'interesting' and something you casually failed to mention.
I won't respond to any more of your thread derailing attempts.
The Ascend 910B has been in production for a while now. Yields are an issue at SMIC but it's old news.
I seriously doubt the 4 out of 5 claim but even if it were true, it still means the defective parts can very likely be used elsewhere.
The story behind the yields is demand which is very high, and even late last year (when this news actually first hit the internet) most orders had already been shipped!
In fact, Baidu alone is claimed to have ordered 1,600 Ascend 910B chips in August last year - with over 60% already shipped when the news broke. iFlyTek placed another large order and domestic demand hasn't slipped since either.
Just last week Huawei said the immediate focus is not on nodes but optimisation although there have been persistent rumours of a 5nm chip this year.
That's because parallel to current manufacturing capacity at SMIC, Huawei is building out a gigantic multi-billion dollar chip development and R&D facility in Shanghai. They are simply in the process of bringing everything together. As TSMC in the US knows, it takes time to build huge facilities.
It's almost finished now and you don't put that kind of project into operation on a whim. Clearly, it will serve a purpose.
The car division is also seeing massive YoY order growth and earlier this year it was the Huawei MDC chip (Ascend) solutions that were unable to keep up with demand. That seems to have been balanced out now but demand is still growing as new models come to market.
And more recently the Stelato S9 which is aiming for 120,000 unit capacity for the luxury model.
Plus booming sales of the Mate 60/Pura 70 phone series.
Capacity to satisfy such demand is always going to be an issue if demand doesn't fall off, but I'd say that's a nice problem to have.
Nvidia mentioned a company and described it as a formidable competitor. That was Huawei. I'd say Nvidia has its finger on the AI Chip pulse better than you.
Even with yield issues, Huawei is taking sales away from them. Do you think yields (independent of current state) have improved or worsened since last year?
I ask because more and more HiSilicon chipsets are rolling out of SMIC.
If you read Zeihan every day without contrasting his views you have a seriously unbalanced viewpoint. At the very least you should be taking in some of commentary debunking what he says. Then, and only then, should you form an opinion.
He's an author trying to sell books. He's a content creator trying to sell views. And hasn't he been saying the same thing forever without it actually happening?
But don't answer that. This is about the EU.
Pretty sure that even you would agree that Western investment, notably EU investment, in semiconductor tech is worthwhile, and the fact that Huawei, SMIC, et al, are having difficulty transitioning to 5nm DUV multi patterning, kind of supports those investmenst. See ASML stock, indicating that sales are very good, without China.
You seem unaware that China's economy has slowed greatly, and Verne noted that China likely overstated its population by 100m, which I have also seen. I don't worry about debunking Zeihan, and you evidently don't either, since this would be an opportunity to do so.
Frankly, Zeihan has no credibility left (not that he ever had much to start with) and you having read something somewhere (given where you are picking up news from) is worthless.
I didn't link to the huge amount of Zeihan debunking because this is about the EU!
The same with the Ascend 910B.
It isn't the place.
LOL!
You always go with the "it isn't the place" when you are wrong.,,
You are much too invested in China, and even the EU is having to roll back its relationship with China.
Except I'm not wrong. I gave information on the Ascend 910B and Zeihan is, frankly, a fool. Search: "Zeihan" "debunked".
I just see no point in talking about about something that has literally nothing to do with the topic. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Open up your own thread and I'll gladly set you straight but this thread isn't the place.
Apple's management is perfectly free to leave the EU market or ship more or less worthless "light" versions of Apple technology into the EU, but Apple would not only lose access to a huge market, it would also lose access to the knowledge and support of a highly skilled workforce in the EU that not only uses Apple technologies, but also develops highly innovative technologies that Apple buys and puts an Apple label on.
Vestager is not a lone wolf, but is acting in line with the wishes of the 27 national governments in the EU, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland, Romania, Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Austria, etc.
The de facto influence of the EU goes far beyond this, because many non EU-member states in Europe cooperate closely with the EU for economic reasons or because they want to become members of the EU.
It is clear that China is now the world's economic leader, which is currently mainly due to the fact that it has the largest population. China is currently developing into the new sole (?) superpower. But in China, the government is not democratically elected. And all people and company managers in both the America and Europe need to think carefully about whether they want to be dominated by China and its vassals in Russia, North Korea and Iran in the near future.
Demographically speaking, China will be disappearing in the next ten years - probably sooner.
When you're a primarily agrarian society, you have lots of kids because you need the free labor to work the land and they're your retirement program.
When you industrialize and move into cities, kids are an expense - and if you're China and had a mandatory one child policy - you're waaayyy below the 2.1 children per family needed to sustain the population. China has overcounted their population by at least 100 million and their demographic pyramid shows they've got a rapidly aging workforce going into retirement with a very small number of children to support them all.
Russia's not far behind because no one wants to have kids in Russia, and the European powerhouses are following close on their heels behind Russia.
Germany's industries were all based on cheap Russian gas and a lot of that industry is trying to relocate to the United States where cheap gas still exists.
The saving demographic grace in the United States is the suburbs where US citizens continued to have kids, and the transition from agrarian to urban took place over a longer span of time.
BTW, Peter thinks that Apple is going away because they constantly made the wrong choice by staying in China, but being that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world I'm betting that they can bribe enough officials to keep the door open long enough for them and much of their supply chain to make their escape.
I'd argue that the supply chain, which employs millions of relatively well paid Chinese workers, is the reason that Apple is still allowed.
I try and catch Peter every morning, and I also watch Joe Blog, plus a few lesser known economists and economic observers. China didn't get rich before it got old, and worse, it is under a totalitarian leader,
Tom's Hardware had post that I found very interesting as it confirmed what had been both expected and rumored;
Huawei reportedly facing bad AI chip yields for processors made at Chinese fab SMIC: Report
Four out of five Ascend 910B AI processors reportedly have defects.
And how is that relevant to an article on the EU???
Some background that you will find even more 'interesting' and something you casually failed to mention.
I won't respond to any more of your thread derailing attempts.
The Ascend 910B has been in production for a while now. Yields are an issue at SMIC but it's old news.
I seriously doubt the 4 out of 5 claim but even if it were true, it still means the defective parts can very likely be used elsewhere.
The story behind the yields is demand which is very high, and even late last year (when this news actually first hit the internet) most orders had already been shipped!
In fact, Baidu alone is claimed to have ordered 1,600 Ascend 910B chips in August last year - with over 60% already shipped when the news broke. iFlyTek placed another large order and domestic demand hasn't slipped since either.
Just last week Huawei said the immediate focus is not on nodes but optimisation although there have been persistent rumours of a 5nm chip this year.
That's because parallel to current manufacturing capacity at SMIC, Huawei is building out a gigantic multi-billion dollar chip development and R&D facility in Shanghai. They are simply in the process of bringing everything together. As TSMC in the US knows, it takes time to build huge facilities.
It's almost finished now and you don't put that kind of project into operation on a whim. Clearly, it will serve a purpose.
The car division is also seeing massive YoY order growth and earlier this year it was the Huawei MDC chip (Ascend) solutions that were unable to keep up with demand. That seems to have been balanced out now but demand is still growing as new models come to market.
And more recently the Stelato S9 which is aiming for 120,000 unit capacity for the luxury model.
Plus booming sales of the Mate 60/Pura 70 phone series.
Capacity to satisfy such demand is always going to be an issue if demand doesn't fall off, but I'd say that's a nice problem to have.
Nvidia mentioned a company and described it as a formidable competitor. That was Huawei. I'd say Nvidia has its finger on the AI Chip pulse better than you.
Even with yield issues, Huawei is taking sales away from them. Do you think yields (independent of current state) have improved or worsened since last year?
I ask because more and more HiSilicon chipsets are rolling out of SMIC.
If you read Zeihan every day without contrasting his views you have a seriously unbalanced viewpoint. At the very least you should be taking in some of commentary debunking what he says. Then, and only then, should you form an opinion.
He's an author trying to sell books. He's a content creator trying to sell views. And hasn't he been saying the same thing forever without it actually happening?
But don't answer that. This is about the EU.
Pretty sure that even you would agree that Western investment, notably EU investment, in semiconductor tech is worthwhile, and the fact that Huawei, SMIC, et al, are having difficulty transitioning to 5nm DUV multi patterning, kind of supports those investmenst. See ASML stock, indicating that sales are very good, without China.
You seem unaware that China's economy has slowed greatly, and Verne noted that China likely overstated its population by 100m, which I have also seen. I don't worry about debunking Zeihan, and you evidently don't either, since this would be an opportunity to do so.
Frankly, Zeihan has no credibility left (not that he ever had much to start with) and you having read something somewhere (given where you are picking up news from) is worthless.
I didn't link to the huge amount of Zeihan debunking because this is about the EU!
The same with the Ascend 910B.
It isn't the place.
LOL!
You always go with the "it isn't the place" when you are wrong.,,
You are much too invested in China, and even the EU is having to roll back its relationship with China.
Except I'm not wrong. I gave information on the Ascend 910B and Zeihan is, frankly, a fool. Search: "Zeihan" "debunked".
I just see no point in talking about about something that has literally nothing to do with the topic. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Open up your own thread and I'll gladly set you straight but this thread isn't the place.
There's no universe where multi patterning DUV lithography will get you to the equivalent of EUV and the generation following that. If Huawei and SMIC are replicating DUV, then they will still have all of the multi patterning inefficiencies.
Even with China's DUV multi patterning efforts, which got them to 5nm, they are still more than 5 years behind TSMC, Intel and Samsung. That may be good enough for local and third world markets, but it isn't good enough to be competitive with the West.
Of note, TSMC delivered 5 nm A14 to Apple in October 2019, almost 5 years ago.
I have checked out the "debunked" Zeihan sites, and most are "debunking" Zeihans timelines, not his prognosis. You are welcome to believe what you want about China, but, I will certainly be able to debunk that.
Comments
When you're a primarily agrarian society, you have lots of kids because you need the free labor to work the land and they're your retirement program.
When you industrialize and move into cities, kids are an expense - and if you're China and had a mandatory one child policy - you're waaayyy below the 2.1 children per family needed to sustain the population. China has overcounted their population by at least 100 million and their demographic pyramid shows they've got a rapidly aging workforce going into retirement with a very small number of children to support them all.
Russia's not far behind because no one wants to have kids in Russia, and the European powerhouses are following close on their heels behind Russia.
Germany's industries were all based on cheap Russian gas and a lot of that industry is trying to relocate to the United States where cheap gas still exists.
The saving demographic grace in the United States is the suburbs where US citizens continued to have kids, and the transition from agrarian to urban took place over a longer span of time.
Y'all ought to watch some Peter Zeihan on geopolitics - it can be quite illuminating.
BTW, Peter thinks that Apple is going away because they constantly made the wrong choice by staying in China, but being that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world I'm betting that they can bribe enough officials to keep the door open long enough for them and much of their supply chain to make their escape.
I try and catch Peter every morning, and I also watch Joe Blog, plus a few lesser known economists and economic observers. China didn't get rich before it got old, and worse, it is under a totalitarian leader,
Tom's Hardware had post that I found very interesting as it confirmed what had been both expected and rumored;
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/huawei-reportedly-facing-bad-ai-chip-yields-for-processors-made-at-chinese-fab-smic-report
Euro being a world hub might not work out so well. Every tourist can fly in with a phone fly home without.
"This isn't about giving the consumers more choice. With Android, consumers already have those choices and have already chosen that they want to get their apps from the Google Play Store, whenever possible and only get it from elsewhere when forced to. This is about giving developers more choice because they want to avoid paying any commission for the commercial use of IP that they don't own or their apps do not pass the policies of the Google Play Store or Apple App Store. Policies that are put in place to protect the users that installs the app on to their devices."
In a digital age where an established 'duopoly' is stifling competition and limiting choice, you are swimming very much against the current with any attempt to say users have 'choice' because Android offers some of the basics that the DMA requires. We are seeing investigations worldwide. That not coincidence. There is a very real problem to deal with and the DSA/DMA is just a first effort.
It isn't about IP. It's about leveling the playing field.
It would be nice if Apple actually put a 'price' on its IP and let developers actually see if its worthwhile paying for it instead of wrapping it all up to the point where competition is lost in the smoke.
Apple had its cake and ate most of it for too many years. The EU is working for a fairer situation for all. As are authorities in many other regions.
Some background that you will find even more 'interesting' and something you casually failed to mention.
I won't respond to any more of your thread derailing attempts.
The Ascend 910B has been in production for a while now. Yields are an issue at SMIC but it's old news.
I seriously doubt the 4 out of 5 claim but even if it were true, it still means the defective parts can very likely be used elsewhere.
The story behind the yields is demand which is very high, and even late last year (when this news actually first hit the internet) most orders had already been shipped!
In fact, Baidu alone is claimed to have ordered 1,600 Ascend 910B chips in August last year - with over 60% already shipped when the news broke. iFlyTek placed another large order and domestic demand hasn't slipped since either.
Just last week Huawei said the immediate focus is not on nodes but optimisation although there have been persistent rumours of a 5nm chip this year.
That's because parallel to current manufacturing capacity at SMIC, Huawei is building out a gigantic multi-billion dollar chip development and R&D facility in Shanghai. They are simply in the process of bringing everything together. As TSMC in the US knows, it takes time to build huge facilities.
From your same source:
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/huawei-builds-major-tool-randd-center-in-shanghai-to-develop-lithography-and-fab-equipment-report-says
It's almost finished now and you don't put that kind of project into operation on a whim. Clearly, it will serve a purpose.
The car division is also seeing massive YoY order growth and earlier this year it was the Huawei MDC chip (Ascend) solutions that were unable to keep up with demand. That seems to have been balanced out now but demand is still growing as new models come to market.
https://cnevpost.com/2024/06/26/aito-m9-exceeds-100000-orders/
And more recently the Stelato S9 which is aiming for 120,000 unit capacity for the luxury model.
Plus booming sales of the Mate 60/Pura 70 phone series.
Capacity to satisfy such demand is always going to be an issue if demand doesn't fall off, but I'd say that's a nice problem to have.
Nvidia mentioned a company and described it as a formidable competitor. That was Huawei. I'd say Nvidia has its finger on the AI Chip pulse better than you.
Even with yield issues, Huawei is taking sales away from them. Do you think yields (independent of current state) have improved or worsened since last year?
I ask because more and more HiSilicon chipsets are rolling out of SMIC.
If you read Zeihan every day without contrasting his views you have a seriously unbalanced viewpoint. At the very least you should be taking in some of commentary debunking what he says. Then, and only then, should you form an opinion.
He's an author trying to sell books. He's a content creator trying to sell views. And hasn't he been saying the same thing forever without it actually happening?
But don't answer that. This is about the EU.
You seem unaware that China's economy has slowed greatly, and Verne noted that China likely overstated its population by 100m, which I have also seen. I don't worry about debunking Zeihan, and you evidently don't either, since this would be an opportunity to do so.
I didn't link to the huge amount of Zeihan debunking because this is about the EU!
The same with the Ascend 910B.
It isn't the place.
You always go with the "it isn't the place" when you are wrong.,,
You are much too invested in China, and even the EU is having to roll back its relationship with China.
I just see no point in talking about about something that has literally nothing to do with the topic. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Open up your own thread and I'll gladly set you straight but this thread isn't the place.
https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-war/article/3257442/tech-war-china-quietly-making-progress-new-techniques-cut-reliance-advanced-asml-lithography#
Even with China's DUV multi patterning efforts, which got them to 5nm, they are still more than 5 years behind TSMC, Intel and Samsung. That may be good enough for local and third world markets, but it isn't good enough to be competitive with the West.
Of note, TSMC delivered 5 nm A14 to Apple in October 2019, almost 5 years ago.
I have checked out the "debunked" Zeihan sites, and most are "debunking" Zeihans timelines, not his prognosis. You are welcome to believe what you want about China, but, I will certainly be able to debunk that.