'You are reinforcing my suspicions about the iMac's manufacturing cost. A Mac for the consumer market should have been designed with low manufacturing cost as one of the goals. I hope Apple realizes their mistake and are working to reducing cost. (I know, wrong thread, but I couldn't resist commenting on what you said.)'
(What's with the quoter again? Sigh. Sometimes it works...and sometimes not...)
It's upto Apple to address this. They should have thought about costs before they 'got to it'.
15 inch LCDs are dirt cheap. And the entry level iMac2 is underwhelming from a tech viewpoint. Geforce Mx2? Yeesh. How cheap can you get? Is it the fancy steel/chrome arm? I'd love to know what it is...
Sorry to go off-topic but...they obviously didn't take enough of a beating from the Cube to take the hint.
PRICE! Do we have to drag Matsu in here to do his Mad Face thing?
Well it is going to be a long month. The hype, expectations and pessimism are really accellerating.
As for me, I would love to see an announcement or even hint at WWDC. If it happens great, if not then I will wait until it does. No big deal. I probably won't be able to buy until late summer or early fall anyway.
MacBidoulle is possibly over optimistic, and their sources are unknowns. MacWhispers is a very unknown quantity as well. Remember when he said that no way Think Secret was right about the ipod? "His Sources" said no change in the buttons, etc... In the end he had to eat those words, but at least was gracious about his apology. He was right about some other items though.
In the end it really doesn't matter that much. Something very good is coming. We don't know exactly when, but it is coming. I have no doubt that Apple will make it available ASAP, but there are more factors involved then any one source will be aware of.
Of course if Think Secret posts something, then it will be a whole new ball game. Be quick though, Apple legal won't let any good information stay up for long.
27 days and counting. Then we will know if we have to wait a little longer. 8)
Of course if Think Secret posts something, then it will be a whole new ball game. Be quick though, Apple legal won't let any good information stay up for long.
I have to disagree with you on that point. The last couple of times that Apple forcibly removed a rumor from a site, it was a very clear indicator that the rumor was right on. If Apple wants this to be as secret as can be, then it would be prudent to them to NOT pull the rumor down.
Besides, how would we know if that was the really accurate rumor from the one that was plain bogus...
All I can say, is that I can not wait!! (Besides, my Mac IIci is feeling really sluggish... )
I have to disagree with you on that point. The last couple of times that Apple forcibly removed a rumor from a site, it was a very clear indicator that the rumor was right on. If Apple wants this to be as secret as can be, then it would be prudent to them to NOT pull the rumor down.
Mostly, Apple can't do squat about rumors. They can only threaten legal action if someone publishes trade secrets or misuses their trademarks. Otherwise, their only recourse is to publicly refute rumors but their policy is to ignore them instead.
Not sure about others world wide but last I heard Apples plant in Cork in the South of Ireland was still assembeling finished G4s. IBM also have a huge Production/R&D facility in north Dublin but I have no evidence of any link.
I would bet that 90% of us will not run a 64 bit app anytime in the next 5 years!
I'd bet that Apple would ship _something_ with the machine that's 64-bit. There were AltiVec freebies to demonstrate the speedup there -> I'd expect easy/free or ships-with-machine access to _something_ that shows a 64-bit application obliterating a 32-bit application.
So... I'm thinking a lot more than 90% of the people with 970s will run 64-bit apps. But I agree, 1% will use _use_ them productively somehow.
I'd bet that Apple would ship _something_ with the machine that's 64-bit. There were AltiVec freebies to demonstrate the speedup there -> I'd expect easy/free or ships-with-machine access to _something_ that shows a 64-bit application obliterating a 32-bit application.
But that brings us back to Panther. I don't think the machines will ship initially with any kind of 64 bit app, since Jaguar wouldn't support them. However I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of a "demo" 64 bit app included with Panther in September or even the announcement of a high end 64 bit app announced with the release of Panther.
I really don't expect apple to "announce" the 970 PowerMacs at WWDC, though that would be very nice, but I think they will be "generically introduced" in some kind of a non-specific manner. Of course it is purely speculation on my part but I don't think Steve will want to do two major introductions at WWDC. Panther will be the WWDC focus with just enough info to let us know that shortly following an Apple Event will introduce new hardware that will take full advantage of Panther's capabilities and introduce a new generation of performance.
No matter when it happens it will be grand. This summer marks the beginning. And let's not forget that the 970 is only one part of the equation. It is not only the 970, but the system that the 970 makes possible as well.
I'd bet that Apple would ship _something_ with the machine that's 64-bit.
Judging from the numerous complaints I've seen from the Mac community over the last few months, I would have to say the Jaguar (and perhaps later, the Panther) calculator will get its much-needed speed boost from the new 64-bit processor.
So... I'm thinking a lot more than 90% of the people with 970s will run 64-bit apps. But I agree, 1% will use _use_ them productively somehow.
I should have made my statment better. Sure someone could write a shareware calculator app that is 64 bits, but that doesn't mean it will run faster than a 32 bit calculator (in fact it might run slower!).
90% of us will never need to run a 64 bit app within the next 3-5 years. 32 bit apps will continute to be developed after the release of the 970s. Office, Applewoks, Mail, iTunes, iMovie, iCal, Doom 3, Quake 3, Address Book, etc will not need to be 64 bit. They wont see ANY benefits to being "ported" to 64 bits.
90% of you guys need to just imagine the 970 is a 32bit chip. The 970s advances aren't in its bitness, but rather the multitude of other advancements it has.
I can see it now: Jobs types into Calculator: 4000000000 + 4000000000 = ... See?! Panther finishes this calculation so much quicker!
Now, if Apple wants to wow people with a 64-bit platform, look no further than the markets they're trying to enter: The IT sector that Apple is currently wooing would sit up and take notice of a demonstration of Oracle 9i - not the applications, the database - running at full power on Panther. Or <insert 3D application here> rendering at much higher speeds than the G4 could hope to match.
Maybe Apple could announce 64-bit CoreAudio, allowing engineers to apply an almost infinite number of effects to audio tracks without introducing a discernable level of distortion, but I doubt it. 32 bit audio ought to be enough for anybody. 64-bit color spaces, on the other hand...
There's no shortage of possibilities, really. The 64-bit market is definitely there, although it's not a market that will be of interest to most of the installed Mac user base. But then, if you're trying to gain market share, appealing to people outside your installed base is definitely a Good Thing(TM).
. . . I really don't expect apple to "announce" the 970 PowerMacs at WWDC, though that would be very nice, but I think they will be "generically introduced" in some kind of a non-specific manner. Of course it is purely speculation on my part but I don't think Steve will want to do two major introductions at WWDC. . .
Apple needs to provide information about both Panther and the 970 to the developers so they can begin work on 64-bit applications. If Apple talks about the 970, it would be awkward not to mention where it will be used. I don't see how Apple can avoid announcing the PowerMacs at WWDC or before, and at WWDC makes the most sense.
I can see it now: Jobs types into Calculator: 4000000000 + 4000000000 = ... See?! Panther finishes this calculation so much quicker!
Heh.
Quote:
Maybe Apple could announce 64-bit CoreAudio, allowing engineers to apply an almost infinite number of effects to audio tracks without introducing a discernable level of distortion, but I doubt it. 32 bit audio ought to be enough for anybody. 64-bit color spaces, on the other hand...
Audio and colour spaces are better represented by 64-bit floating point which 32-bit PowerPCs do just fine. 64-bitness' primary benefit is in the huge address spaces so any impressive demos should leverage that. Demoing the processing of a 16 layer 64-bit per pixel 8K x 8K image would be impressive but would require a 64-bit enabled image processing app. Adobe might be able to update Photoshop, but I wouldn't bet on it.
The MacWhispers guy (Jack whatever) has posted again in the MacRumors forum
"I have suspected that the editor of MacBidioulle has been intentionally spoofing and flaming the PPC 970 rumors, just for fun and games... as **NONE** of their past five or six published reports jives at **ALL** with what my own daily, very-real human contacts in Taiwan have been telling me about PPC 970 based Macs.
If you'll look back about 5-weeks, you'll see that the day following my MacWhispers report that PPC 970 production was surprisingly ahead of schedule, MB published a hauntingly similar piece, but with a number of "details" added as flourish. Since that time, the site has just been cranking up the intensity of the 970 drumbeat.
If anyone's really interested in first-person supplied info, from a Mac guy who's just trying to share what he knows, here's the reality:
1. 90% Confidence level: The next PowerBook is indeed going to sport a PPC 970, and have a specially built 15.4" LCD from ChiMei at a resolution higher than 1280x800
2. 90% Confidence level: The next Power Macs are still being referred to as "Power Macs" by everyone in the OEM channel, and are coming with PPC 970 chips, as well. They will have a completely new case desing, but still following the silver/gray/clear muted color schemes of recent pro machines, and will have an (at least substantially) aluminum front panel
3. 95% Confidence level: Both the Powerbook and new Power Macs are entering the production cycle "soon," whatever the hell that means.
I plan on still being around next year, and afterwards, and truly don't want to see what little reputation I've earned get fried right here and now, so I am being excrutiatingly cautious in what I report here, and on MacWhispers.
Take it for what you will. "
He seems to lay out what 970 info he has. Strange he doesn't do it on his site though.
He seems to lay out what 970 info he has. Strange he doesn't do it on his site though.
Yepp, very strange. But I think I recall that he earlier said he was working under NDA from Apple now, so he had to be more careful as what to put up on the site, and therefore he post on message boards instead.
Yepp, very strange. But I think I recall that he earlier said he was working under NDA from Apple now, so he had to be more careful as what to put up on the site, and therefore he post on message boards instead.
Where did you hear that? I can't imagine Steve granting NDA status to any webmaster of a rumors site, especially Mac Whispers.
Where did you hear that? I can't imagine Steve granting NDA status to any webmaster of a rumors site, especially Mac Whispers.
He's supposedly producing the ErgoMac, DVForge, MacTable, and MacMice brands, and they are developing some new product and has gotten NDA'd by Apple because they needed "hardware information" or something like that. So he stated that he had to be more careful as what to put up on the site as Apple covered a lot in their NDA's. At least that is if this "jack" person is the same as powerjack on spymac which I think he is. I saw it in a thread some days ago, but I couldn't find it now. Oh, well.
Where did you hear that? I can't imagine Steve granting NDA status to any webmaster of a rumors site, especially Mac Whispers.
Also would be a nice way to shut them up, wouldn't it. Give them all the information they want under NDA, hey probably give them a pre-prod powermac for the hassle. I know that would shut me up
Comments
(What's with the quoter again? Sigh. Sometimes it works...and sometimes not...)
It's upto Apple to address this. They should have thought about costs before they 'got to it'.
15 inch LCDs are dirt cheap. And the entry level iMac2 is underwhelming from a tech viewpoint. Geforce Mx2? Yeesh. How cheap can you get? Is it the fancy steel/chrome arm? I'd love to know what it is...
Sorry to go off-topic but...they obviously didn't take enough of a beating from the Cube to take the hint.
PRICE! Do we have to drag Matsu in here to do his Mad Face thing?
Lemon Bon Bon
As for me, I would love to see an announcement or even hint at WWDC. If it happens great, if not then I will wait until it does. No big deal. I probably won't be able to buy until late summer or early fall anyway.
MacBidoulle is possibly over optimistic, and their sources are unknowns. MacWhispers is a very unknown quantity as well. Remember when he said that no way Think Secret was right about the ipod? "His Sources" said no change in the buttons, etc... In the end he had to eat those words, but at least was gracious about his apology. He was right about some other items though.
In the end it really doesn't matter that much. Something very good is coming. We don't know exactly when, but it is coming. I have no doubt that Apple will make it available ASAP, but there are more factors involved then any one source will be aware of.
Of course if Think Secret posts something, then it will be a whole new ball game. Be quick though, Apple legal won't let any good information stay up for long.
27 days and counting. Then we will know if we have to wait a little longer. 8)
Originally posted by Shaktai
Of course if Think Secret posts something, then it will be a whole new ball game. Be quick though, Apple legal won't let any good information stay up for long.
I have to disagree with you on that point. The last couple of times that Apple forcibly removed a rumor from a site, it was a very clear indicator that the rumor was right on. If Apple wants this to be as secret as can be, then it would be prudent to them to NOT pull the rumor down.
Besides, how would we know if that was the really accurate rumor from the one that was plain bogus...
All I can say, is that I can not wait!! (Besides, my Mac IIci is feeling really sluggish...
sorry: edit/ i think the current g4 are made in elk grove ca just outside the captiol
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
I have to disagree with you on that point. The last couple of times that Apple forcibly removed a rumor from a site, it was a very clear indicator that the rumor was right on. If Apple wants this to be as secret as can be, then it would be prudent to them to NOT pull the rumor down.
Mostly, Apple can't do squat about rumors. They can only threaten legal action if someone publishes trade secrets or misuses their trademarks. Otherwise, their only recourse is to publicly refute rumors but their policy is to ignore them instead.
Not sure about others world wide but last I heard Apples plant in Cork in the South of Ireland was still assembeling finished G4s. IBM also have a huge Production/R&D facility in north Dublin but I have no evidence of any link.
Originally posted by kupan787
I would bet that 90% of us will not run a 64 bit app anytime in the next 5 years!
I'd bet that Apple would ship _something_ with the machine that's 64-bit. There were AltiVec freebies to demonstrate the speedup there -> I'd expect easy/free or ships-with-machine access to _something_ that shows a 64-bit application obliterating a 32-bit application.
So... I'm thinking a lot more than 90% of the people with 970s will run 64-bit apps. But I agree, 1% will use _use_ them productively somehow.
Originally posted by Nevyn
I'd bet that Apple would ship _something_ with the machine that's 64-bit. There were AltiVec freebies to demonstrate the speedup there -> I'd expect easy/free or ships-with-machine access to _something_ that shows a 64-bit application obliterating a 32-bit application.
But that brings us back to Panther. I don't think the machines will ship initially with any kind of 64 bit app, since Jaguar wouldn't support them. However I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of a "demo" 64 bit app included with Panther in September or even the announcement of a high end 64 bit app announced with the release of Panther.
I really don't expect apple to "announce" the 970 PowerMacs at WWDC, though that would be very nice, but I think they will be "generically introduced" in some kind of a non-specific manner. Of course it is purely speculation on my part but I don't think Steve will want to do two major introductions at WWDC. Panther will be the WWDC focus with just enough info to let us know that shortly following an Apple Event will introduce new hardware that will take full advantage of Panther's capabilities and introduce a new generation of performance.
No matter when it happens it will be grand. This summer marks the beginning. And let's not forget that the 970 is only one part of the equation. It is not only the 970, but the system that the 970 makes possible as well.
Originally posted by Nevyn
I'd bet that Apple would ship _something_ with the machine that's 64-bit.
Judging from the numerous complaints I've seen from the Mac community over the last few months, I would have to say the Jaguar (and perhaps later, the Panther) calculator will get its much-needed speed boost from the new 64-bit processor.
Originally posted by Nevyn
So... I'm thinking a lot more than 90% of the people with 970s will run 64-bit apps. But I agree, 1% will use _use_ them productively somehow.
I should have made my statment better. Sure someone could write a shareware calculator app that is 64 bits, but that doesn't mean it will run faster than a 32 bit calculator (in fact it might run slower!).
90% of us will never need to run a 64 bit app within the next 3-5 years. 32 bit apps will continute to be developed after the release of the 970s. Office, Applewoks, Mail, iTunes, iMovie, iCal, Doom 3, Quake 3, Address Book, etc will not need to be 64 bit. They wont see ANY benefits to being "ported" to 64 bits.
90% of you guys need to just imagine the 970 is a 32bit chip. The 970s advances aren't in its bitness, but rather the multitude of other advancements it has.
Now, if Apple wants to wow people with a 64-bit platform, look no further than the markets they're trying to enter: The IT sector that Apple is currently wooing would sit up and take notice of a demonstration of Oracle 9i - not the applications, the database - running at full power on Panther. Or <insert 3D application here> rendering at much higher speeds than the G4 could hope to match.
Maybe Apple could announce 64-bit CoreAudio, allowing engineers to apply an almost infinite number of effects to audio tracks without introducing a discernable level of distortion, but I doubt it. 32 bit audio ought to be enough for anybody.
There's no shortage of possibilities, really. The 64-bit market is definitely there, although it's not a market that will be of interest to most of the installed Mac user base. But then, if you're trying to gain market share, appealing to people outside your installed base is definitely a Good Thing(TM).
Originally posted by Shaktai
. . . I really don't expect apple to "announce" the 970 PowerMacs at WWDC, though that would be very nice, but I think they will be "generically introduced" in some kind of a non-specific manner. Of course it is purely speculation on my part but I don't think Steve will want to do two major introductions at WWDC. . .
Apple needs to provide information about both Panther and the 970 to the developers so they can begin work on 64-bit applications. If Apple talks about the 970, it would be awkward not to mention where it will be used. I don't see how Apple can avoid announcing the PowerMacs at WWDC or before, and at WWDC makes the most sense.
Originally posted by Amorph
I can see it now: Jobs types into Calculator: 4000000000 + 4000000000 = ... See?! Panther finishes this calculation so much quicker!
Heh.
Maybe Apple could announce 64-bit CoreAudio, allowing engineers to apply an almost infinite number of effects to audio tracks without introducing a discernable level of distortion, but I doubt it. 32 bit audio ought to be enough for anybody.
Audio and colour spaces are better represented by 64-bit floating point which 32-bit PowerPCs do just fine. 64-bitness' primary benefit is in the huge address spaces so any impressive demos should leverage that. Demoing the processing of a 16 layer 64-bit per pixel 8K x 8K image would be impressive but would require a 64-bit enabled image processing app. Adobe might be able to update Photoshop, but I wouldn't bet on it.
"I have suspected that the editor of MacBidioulle has been intentionally spoofing and flaming the PPC 970 rumors, just for fun and games... as **NONE** of their past five or six published reports jives at **ALL** with what my own daily, very-real human contacts in Taiwan have been telling me about PPC 970 based Macs.
If you'll look back about 5-weeks, you'll see that the day following my MacWhispers report that PPC 970 production was surprisingly ahead of schedule, MB published a hauntingly similar piece, but with a number of "details" added as flourish. Since that time, the site has just been cranking up the intensity of the 970 drumbeat.
If anyone's really interested in first-person supplied info, from a Mac guy who's just trying to share what he knows, here's the reality:
1. 90% Confidence level: The next PowerBook is indeed going to sport a PPC 970, and have a specially built 15.4" LCD from ChiMei at a resolution higher than 1280x800
2. 90% Confidence level: The next Power Macs are still being referred to as "Power Macs" by everyone in the OEM channel, and are coming with PPC 970 chips, as well. They will have a completely new case desing, but still following the silver/gray/clear muted color schemes of recent pro machines, and will have an (at least substantially) aluminum front panel
3. 95% Confidence level: Both the Powerbook and new Power Macs are entering the production cycle "soon," whatever the hell that means.
I plan on still being around next year, and afterwards, and truly don't want to see what little reputation I've earned get fried right here and now, so I am being excrutiatingly cautious in what I report here, and on MacWhispers.
Take it for what you will. "
He seems to lay out what 970 info he has. Strange he doesn't do it on his site though.
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
He seems to lay out what 970 info he has. Strange he doesn't do it on his site though.
Yepp, very strange. But I think I recall that he earlier said he was working under NDA from Apple now, so he had to be more careful as what to put up on the site, and therefore he post on message boards instead.
Originally posted by NETROMac
Yepp, very strange. But I think I recall that he earlier said he was working under NDA from Apple now, so he had to be more careful as what to put up on the site, and therefore he post on message boards instead.
Where did you hear that? I can't imagine Steve granting NDA status to any webmaster of a rumors site, especially Mac Whispers.
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
Where did you hear that? I can't imagine Steve granting NDA status to any webmaster of a rumors site, especially Mac Whispers.
He's supposedly producing the ErgoMac, DVForge, MacTable, and MacMice brands, and they are developing some new product and has gotten NDA'd by Apple because they needed "hardware information" or something like that. So he stated that he had to be more careful as what to put up on the site as Apple covered a lot in their NDA's. At least that is if this "jack" person is the same as powerjack on spymac which I think he is. I saw it in a thread some days ago, but I couldn't find it now. Oh, well.
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
Where did you hear that? I can't imagine Steve granting NDA status to any webmaster of a rumors site, especially Mac Whispers.
Also would be a nice way to shut them up, wouldn't it. Give them all the information they want under NDA, hey probably give them a pre-prod powermac for the hassle. I know that would shut me up