The education discount on the base eMac is £70! That's more than $100! Nice to see Apple can produce a decent budget machine and still have some margins (I'd be very suprised if they did loss leading with the eMac).
Best put that saved cash toward getting a useful amount of RAM .
Does anyone know how many education purchases an individual can make in a year?
The iMac is starting to look like a bad deal, then again there really isn't any good reason why the iMac isn't priced at these levels (given that comparable LCD equipped machines are available from our wintelon friends) for eMac (CRT) money.
I just think how much more exciting these machines would be if Apple lopped 200USD off the prices, and sold them headless with a modicum of modularity (CPU and GPU on industry standard CARDS!)
While the CRT in use probably costs them 75 bucks max, the cost of building and shipping the AIO enclosure easily makes up the rest of my proposed 200 cut.
Come Apple, we need an eCUBE! Not another hermetically sealed zero display option AIO.
I just think how much more exciting these machines would be if Apple lopped 200USD off the prices, and sold them headless with a modicum of modularity (CPU and GPU on industry standard CARDS!)
Most computer buyers don't upgrade CPUs or GPUs (most don't even upgrade their software) - that's for the geeks.
And gamers, which are a very large portion of the computer buying public. While hard core gamers will never buy macs in droves unless the library grows, the library will never grow unless enough people buy suitable machines.
However, that's all besides the point. More and more people DO upgrade their video cards to gain dual display or better video output. There many many more geeks than there used to be, the numerous white box builders that you can find in any major N.Am city and all over Asia testify to this. You find many of their customers just dropping in to get the latest vid/audio card, or this and that periph. A great many consumers do, do extensive upgrading. More crucially, even those that don't routinely list expansion/upgradability in their top 3 selling features.
And almost ALL consumers, business and schools have perfectly good CRT's and LCD's around, and they keep on a completely different update cycle than the box itself.
And gamers, which are a very large portion of the computer buying public. While hard core gamers will never buy macs in droves unless the library grows, the library will never grow unless enough people buy suitable machines.
Actually Gamers are a Niche. I mean the type of gamers overclocking their comptuters and buying $400 GPU. I wouldn't even say they make up a large portion of PC's let alone Very Large.
However I do think the LCD iMac will need to start dropping. There shouldn't be an $1700 eMac at all. That's crazy.
Interesting observation - the OS 9 bootable CD-ROM and Combo models have Airport Extreme slots, whereas the OS X-only Combo iMac has only a regular Airport slot. So Airport Extreme has nothing to do with whether it's dual-boot or not.
Some other observations:
AGP 4x for the graphics (I don't know but I thought that previous eMacs had AGP 2x, not that it matters much)
133 MHz bus across the board (as opposed to 133 MHz bus on only the high end iMac)
32x10x32x8x Combo drive (I think it's faster than the previous one)
The iMacs are definitely looking like a bad value. Overpriced as usual. The $1299 iMac has no Airport Extreme, no 133 MHz bus, and a worse graphics card.
Interesting observation - the OS 9 bootable CD-ROM and Combo models have Airport Extreme slots, whereas the OS X-only Combo iMac has only a regular Airport slot. So Airport Extreme has nothing to do with whether it's dual-boot or not.
Some other observations:
AGP 4x for the graphics (I don't know but I thought that previous eMacs had AGP 2x, not that it matters much)
133 MHz bus across the board (as opposed to 133 MHz bus on only the high end iMac)
32x10x32x8x Combo drive (I think it's faster than the previous one)
The iMacs are definitely looking like a bad value. Overpriced as usual. The $1299 iMac has no Airport Extreme, no 133 MHz bus, and a worse graphics card.
So does this mean a iMac update sooner rather then later (eg. the year it took last time ) Cos the 800Mhz iMac is now looking seriously bad value, esp. in the UK. Seems weird to put Airport extreme on the eMac but not on the new iBook!?!? WTF?!
I wouldn't call gamers a niche. Gamers who are gonna pay through the nose just to play 2 FPS games are, but the white box builders are estimated to comprise as much as 30% of the PC market, and a very large chunk of their business comes from gamers (and the rest from budget builders) The market s big enough that Dell has seen fit to aim a few models in their general direction.
In the Toronto area, these little builders are everywhere, and people are always dropping in to upgrade older machines, whether or not they're gamers.
Like I said, even the big box retail customer tends to view expansion/upgradability as a key selling feature, whether or not they use it. I threw gamers out there because their DIY influence is having an impact on the market.
With digital AV coming to the fore, the prospect of internal drive upgrades and CPU/GPU enhancements is a big consideration. Display flexibility is a huge one. Schools NEED it, not AIO's. I don't know any board that's going to throw away 3-5 year old CRT's if they can save themselves from buying a few dozen or a few hundred, or thousand, new displays.
PS, Radeon7500 and GF4MX ***on the Mac*** are just about the same thing. DX performance means nothing on the mac, it's all about OpenGL. Or did the eMacs have GF2MX? iDunnaremember?
The eMacs all had GeForce 2MX graphics cards, as does the current 800 MHz iMac.
Another thing, Matsu - most PC gamers aren't going to give up PCs any sooner than we'd give up our Macs. Okay, so you might give up your Mac pretty quick, but many Mac fanatics are very attached to their machines. PC gamers don't have a whole lot of loyalty to a particular company like Mac users. They have their preferences, of course, and they might only buy from one manufacturer for certain parts, but it varies from person to person. But they are quite loyal to their platform. They are often the people who say that "MAC sux 4 maekig stipid colrful coputars." Do you really think they'll ditch their PC that they've been hotrodding and upgrading for years in favor of a Mac, even if it's cheap and expandable? I don't think so. They'd rather buy all the components themselves and build it to their exact specifications. OS X? Who cares? There are far more games for Windows, and they run better too. Warcraft III for example - my 800 MHz iBook with a 32 MB Radeon 7500 can just run Warcraft III acceptably, but my 1.46 GHz Athlon with integrated GeForce 2MX graphics (that's shared memory!) ran it extremely smoothly.
So there are definitely more problems than just the lack of titles and the lack of a cheap, expandable "Gamer's Machine." We also need better support for better performance, as well as the loyalty of PC-gamers. And I doubt we'll get any of that.
It's not about gamers. It's about a basic expectation of the computing public. Gamers may be the only ones to exploit it, but basicaly the entire consumer public (expect AIO buyers) demands it of a desktop. AS I have said, even if they never use it, even if gamers are likely to never switch to mac. I know this. But people still demand affordable expansion out of desktop machines. And they ARE making use of it in increasing numbers.
Schools and businesses (and more consumers) would buy macs, but they want them headless (and affordable) and they do want GPU options, particularly as it pertains to updating their display capabilities, ie dual display, or for A/V. And the mac market is all about a/V, a lack of replacable display and GPU is just unacceptable in a desktop machine at e/iMac prices.
Building out of components, rather than one piece mobo's would have other cost advantages as well.
Comments
Originally posted by MacsRGood4U
Here's the line-up.
Apple Keyboard instead of Apple Pro Keyboard...maybe.
(too bad the education discount is only 20 bucks)
Originally posted by drumbug1
Wow... now we're talking...
(too bad the education discount is only 20 bucks)
Click through that image and you'll see it's a typo. It's actually $50. Not much, but they're finally getting there.
Interesting that you can only boot into OS9 with the CD-ROM and Combo Drive Models - SuperDrive is OSX only.
Best put that saved cash toward getting a useful amount of RAM
Does anyone know how many education purchases an individual can make in a year?
Why they continue to cripple machines with just 128 megs of RAM, though, is beyond me.
Originally posted by Flounder
Looks pretty good. The $799 should model should be great for schools.
Why they continue to cripple machines with just 128 megs of RAM, though, is beyond me.
Money!
And if you notice, all Mac OS X only Macs have a minimum of 256MB RAM.
I just think how much more exciting these machines would be if Apple lopped 200USD off the prices, and sold them headless with a modicum of modularity (CPU and GPU on industry standard CARDS!)
While the CRT in use probably costs them 75 bucks max, the cost of building and shipping the AIO enclosure easily makes up the rest of my proposed 200 cut.
Come Apple, we need an eCUBE! Not another hermetically sealed zero display option AIO.
Originally posted by Matsu
I just think how much more exciting these machines would be if Apple lopped 200USD off the prices, and sold them headless with a modicum of modularity (CPU and GPU on industry standard CARDS!)
Most computer buyers don't upgrade CPUs or GPUs (most don't even upgrade their software) - that's for the geeks.
However, that's all besides the point. More and more people DO upgrade their video cards to gain dual display or better video output. There many many more geeks than there used to be, the numerous white box builders that you can find in any major N.Am city and all over Asia testify to this. You find many of their customers just dropping in to get the latest vid/audio card, or this and that periph. A great many consumers do, do extensive upgrading. More crucially, even those that don't routinely list expansion/upgradability in their top 3 selling features.
And almost ALL consumers, business and schools have perfectly good CRT's and LCD's around, and they keep on a completely different update cycle than the box itself.
And gamers, which are a very large portion of the computer buying public. While hard core gamers will never buy macs in droves unless the library grows, the library will never grow unless enough people buy suitable machines.
Actually Gamers are a Niche. I mean the type of gamers overclocking their comptuters and buying $400 GPU. I wouldn't even say they make up a large portion of PC's let alone Very Large.
However I do think the LCD iMac will need to start dropping. There shouldn't be an $1700 eMac at all. That's crazy.
Originally posted by Eugene
Apple Keyboard instead of Apple Pro Keyboard...maybe.
I noticed this also...but no pics.... The Quicktime VR still has the old one pictured...
Some other observations:
AGP 4x for the graphics (I don't know but I thought that previous eMacs had AGP 2x, not that it matters much)
133 MHz bus across the board (as opposed to 133 MHz bus on only the high end iMac)
32x10x32x8x Combo drive (I think it's faster than the previous one)
The iMacs are definitely looking like a bad value. Overpriced as usual. The $1299 iMac has no Airport Extreme, no 133 MHz bus, and a worse graphics card.
edit: And it looks like the CRT iMac is gone on all fronts. It's no longer listed on the institutional purchases page for Universities.
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno
Interesting observation - the OS 9 bootable CD-ROM and Combo models have Airport Extreme slots, whereas the OS X-only Combo iMac has only a regular Airport slot. So Airport Extreme has nothing to do with whether it's dual-boot or not.
Some other observations:
AGP 4x for the graphics (I don't know but I thought that previous eMacs had AGP 2x, not that it matters much)
133 MHz bus across the board (as opposed to 133 MHz bus on only the high end iMac)
32x10x32x8x Combo drive (I think it's faster than the previous one)
The iMacs are definitely looking like a bad value. Overpriced as usual. The $1299 iMac has no Airport Extreme, no 133 MHz bus, and a worse graphics card.
So does this mean a iMac update sooner rather then later (eg. the year it took last time
In the Toronto area, these little builders are everywhere, and people are always dropping in to upgrade older machines, whether or not they're gamers.
Like I said, even the big box retail customer tends to view expansion/upgradability as a key selling feature, whether or not they use it. I threw gamers out there because their DIY influence is having an impact on the market.
With digital AV coming to the fore, the prospect of internal drive upgrades and CPU/GPU enhancements is a big consideration. Display flexibility is a huge one. Schools NEED it, not AIO's. I don't know any board that's going to throw away 3-5 year old CRT's if they can save themselves from buying a few dozen or a few hundred, or thousand, new displays.
PS, Radeon7500 and GF4MX ***on the Mac*** are just about the same thing. DX performance means nothing on the mac, it's all about OpenGL. Or did the eMacs have GF2MX? iDunnaremember?
Another thing, Matsu - most PC gamers aren't going to give up PCs any sooner than we'd give up our Macs. Okay, so you might give up your Mac pretty quick, but many Mac fanatics are very attached to their machines. PC gamers don't have a whole lot of loyalty to a particular company like Mac users. They have their preferences, of course, and they might only buy from one manufacturer for certain parts, but it varies from person to person. But they are quite loyal to their platform. They are often the people who say that "MAC sux 4 maekig stipid colrful coputars." Do you really think they'll ditch their PC that they've been hotrodding and upgrading for years in favor of a Mac, even if it's cheap and expandable? I don't think so. They'd rather buy all the components themselves and build it to their exact specifications. OS X? Who cares? There are far more games for Windows, and they run better too. Warcraft III for example - my 800 MHz iBook with a 32 MB Radeon 7500 can just run Warcraft III acceptably, but my 1.46 GHz Athlon with integrated GeForce 2MX graphics (that's shared memory!) ran it extremely smoothly.
So there are definitely more problems than just the lack of titles and the lack of a cheap, expandable "Gamer's Machine." We also need better support for better performance, as well as the loyalty of PC-gamers. And I doubt we'll get any of that.
Schools and businesses (and more consumers) would buy macs, but they want them headless (and affordable) and they do want GPU options, particularly as it pertains to updating their display capabilities, ie dual display, or for A/V. And the mac market is all about a/V, a lack of replacable display and GPU is just unacceptable in a desktop machine at e/iMac prices.
Building out of components, rather than one piece mobo's would have other cost advantages as well.
The iMac is much quieter, and you don't have to add $60 to the price just to be able to adjust the damn display.
You can also move it without giving yourself a hernia.