10.2.1 runs fine on it ....</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you call c++ low level coding, I'm going to laugh at you. The mac is much better for low level coding, because it's essentially impossible to do on something as cryptic as an x86, unless you have a lot of time and a lot of experience. And, if you're so inclined, you can call 1:1 altivec routines in your C, objC. SSE is a bitch.
For high level coding, I tend to prefer Project Builder over VS or any of the GNU tools.
Next, the G4 800 is significantly faster than a p3 650. The compiler sucks though, but even so, the g4 800 will outperform a p3 650. There are some fundamental differences, obviously, between Win and Mac that account for true and perceived speed bonuses. (try running a lot of simultaneous bg processes on the mac. Latency is a lot less on the mac here).
So, in reality, the PPC/Mac would be a much better choice for running a huge Database. Pretty weird, huh?
The PowerPage has received word that Apple is working on a revision to the professional PowerBook that has a completely new motherboard with a revised architecture for increased throughput across all buses.
Prototypes have been seen sporting a new "variable timing bus and processor" in which the processor and the bus speed are governed by processing demand, a sort of high/low mode which effectively doubles battery life for such mundane tasks as watching DVDs or listening to music CDs.
The actual speed of the processor goes up and down, and the timing speed of the various buses also changes. This reduces the battery discharge rate, and lengthens battery life significantly.
The new variable timing technology has not been confirmed for the January 2003 update but appears possible. It could also could be for the next (or even next next) generation model. Pretty cool actually.
i think that if the gen powerbooks have this then wow!
then i feel the next rev will have ddr etc. anyone agree with me?
Well I have been waiting for the new PB so long, that it's like when you're so hungry and you don't eat -- you knew you were hungry, but you aren't anymore. I'm going to ride it out to the next revision, but I'm no longer excited about it -- I'm numb.
thats too bad... right now i'm using 800ti ... the thing is great... but i see your point... if i needed to but one now then yes i would wait but when these puppies came out i was happy it was perfect... it had a great video card and the processor is perfect for the bus... but my next purchase will probly be a desktop... since i feel this laptop can last for a good 2 years until i get a new one...
i have always been happy with apples 3rd revs of laptops ... i have a wallstreet 300 and that was the rev of that model and i have a pismo and that is the 3rd rev of the curvy g3s and now the 800ti... not trying to say there is number thing going on here but generally apple gets it right 2 or 3 revs in the model... so what i'm hopping for the waiters is that they get the same form but better a class up on the innards...
so good luck ... and hope the thing really screams
If you call c++ low level coding, I'm going to laugh at you. The mac is much better for low level coding, because it's essentially impossible to do on something as cryptic as an x86, unless you have a lot of time and a lot of experience.
So, in reality, the PPC/Mac would be a much better choice for running a huge Database. Pretty weird, huh?</strong><hr></blockquote>
the c++ stuff is based on ace & the stl so its portable accross multiple os's
for places where i dont have a choice i use
a mix of c & asm
for db's production wise solaris & compaq true64
are better choices than a ppc. im simply running a very small oracle instance on the laptop
gcc is an excellent compiler & since i dont use
any vc++ specifics it works fine for me
x86 is not cryptic if you know what your doing
i havent tried project builder but will look at
it i dont need a front end for low level systems
at this point.
the ti800 is still a good machine, but people should wait before paying so much..
$3400 is a lot of money with the economy the way it is at the moment, but it upto the consumers
to use common sense before spending their $$
apple will like any other corp use their customers
to their advantage, its upto the customers to ensure they are getting a good deal by voting
you guys are freaking ridiculous... If you had gotten the PB a month ago when the oct 15th rumors started, you would have gotten to use the computer a month longer then if the new computers came out.... but the new computers didn't come out... the waiting game doesn't do you any good.... i wasted 2 months of the summer waiting for a pb before i realized how retarded it is to wait... if you can get the PB at any kind of decent price (edu, etc.) you should be eating them up... it is a great machine, but i bet if they lowered the low end to $2000 they would sell a boatload of them... its just a question of whether or not they are going to be making any money off them...
as for new products... i wouldn't expect a PB update until MWSF and even then there is a good chance that it will be a new enclosure.... meaning that there will be Rev. A problems with the machine.... remember when the first Ti's came out? people were buying 500 Pismos because they felt they were a better deal. it wasn't until the Rev C machines (with the res upgrade... at least thats what did it for me) before the "new" form factor became better then the pismo...
so if you wait, you will never be happy...
just bite the bullet, get the PB and be happy with it... its not like when the new models come out you computer will be any worse...
the TiBook is a good machine, regardless of whether or not a better model comes out in the next month.... because there will most likely be problems associated with that as well...
that said... it would be nice if apple did make one more model of the TiBook like an ultimate config and drop the price of the 667 to $2300-$2400 and the 800 to $2900-$3000 and price the 1GHz ultimate config at around $3600-$3700... but why would that happen... since when has apple been reasonable and rational (at least to its consumers...) take a look at the iMac pricing... its been all over the map!!
Paul - I don't think you address the reason why a lot of people are waiting to buy (like myself...). I have no problem with the current machine. I am not waiting to buy because I want the latest and greatest... In fact, given how prude Apple tends to be with updates, I am not expecting a significant increase in cpu performance. I am, however, hoping for a better price. Once a slightly faster processor comes out, I'd like to get the Ti800 for what is currently the Ti667 price. I am guessing that many other who are looking to get a pb are in the same boat. The prospect of paying the original price for what is generally considered a "stale" product on most of these rumor boards does not have me running to the bank.
[quote]Mac OS X 10.2.2 will be the second interim upgrade to Apple's Unix-based OS since Jaguar shipped for $129 on Aug. 24. Apple reportedly seeded a pre-release build to developers earlier this month, minus the Elvis enhancements. While the company didn't provide a list of changes and bug fixes, testers said the update modified system files dealing with Address Book, Mail, Sherlock, NetInfo Manager, and Terminal utilities. <strong>Changes</strong> were also made to disc recording, <strong>power management, and drivers for ATI and Nvidia graphics processors.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Interesting that 10.2.2, expected in mere weeks, seems to have some tune-ups to Power Management, and some newer drivers for ATI graphic cards. HMmmmmm...sounds like the 10.2.2 update is partly for the new version of PowerBooks???
<strong>How many times do I have to tell you all! - I dont quite understand where any off you are coming from - I have told you a million times...
APPLE WILL NOT!!! I repeat NOT update the G4 powerbook until Feb 2003.
Please get over it and wait will Feb.
Jools</strong><hr></blockquote>Well then, supposing you're right, Apple is a pack of assholes. They need to update the PowerBook, and no, I don't think they'll let it shrivel until February of next year. Where the hell are you getting that info?
How this one for ya? A guy on the MacNN PowerBook forums (link <a href="http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128279"; target="_blank">here</a>) says his two sources told him that a new model may be out on Wednesday 10/23.
A TiBook will be my first ever apple computer. Should I wait for the 1ghz models? How does OSX perform? Is 1ghz going to give me that last little boost that kills any lag I may experience?
The 800Mhz Ti screams with Jaguar. You probably won't notice any additional interface snappiness with the 1GHz model, since it's about as fast as it's going to get right now, IMO. (All apps launch in a single bounce, windows take less than a half-second to appear, etc.)
The only thing you'll get with the 1GHz Ti will probably be things like faster encoding of QuickTime movies, better game performance, etc.
EDIT: Yes, I own a 800 Ti. You will probably want to wait, though; new models are rumored for October 23rd, but we've heard that tripe before.
Thanks for the response. I guess I have waited all this time to become an Apple user, (hopefully) a couple more days won't matter. Then again I'd hate to see the lead time on those systems once they are released. Whats the usual turn-around time for new hardware like the powerbooks?
[quote]Whats the usual turn-around time for new hardware like the powerbooks? <hr></blockquote>
Speed bumps and feature revisions are usually made available immediately. On new models or heavy revisions there might be a wait. That doesn't answer your question, does it?
The last PowerBook rev was available immediately, as were the newest Power Macs, except for the 1.25GHz model (where we can assume they were waiting for processors from Motorola). The one nice thing about Apple's new "quiet" introduction strategy is that they can usually just wait until the machines are ready before announcing them, rather than having to announce at an expo in July and saying they'll ship in September.
Comments
<strong>
speedwise i'd put my ti 800 (1gb ram) in the same
class as my dell p3 650 (512mb ram)
nb. i am running oracle9i on the dell & c++
compilers on top
. . . .
if you don't do any intensive dba work or low
level coding then its a great machine
10.2.1 runs fine on it ....</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you call c++ low level coding, I'm going to laugh at you. The mac is much better for low level coding, because it's essentially impossible to do on something as cryptic as an x86, unless you have a lot of time and a lot of experience. And, if you're so inclined, you can call 1:1 altivec routines in your C, objC. SSE is a bitch.
For high level coding, I tend to prefer Project Builder over VS or any of the GNU tools.
Next, the G4 800 is significantly faster than a p3 650. The compiler sucks though, but even so, the g4 800 will outperform a p3 650. There are some fundamental differences, obviously, between Win and Mac that account for true and perceived speed bonuses. (try running a lot of simultaneous bg processes on the mac. Latency is a lot less on the mac here).
So, in reality, the PPC/Mac would be a much better choice for running a huge Database. Pretty weird, huh?
Fri, 18 Oct 2002, 08:03
Tequila Mockingbird
The PowerPage has received word that Apple is working on a revision to the professional PowerBook that has a completely new motherboard with a revised architecture for increased throughput across all buses.
Prototypes have been seen sporting a new "variable timing bus and processor" in which the processor and the bus speed are governed by processing demand, a sort of high/low mode which effectively doubles battery life for such mundane tasks as watching DVDs or listening to music CDs.
The actual speed of the processor goes up and down, and the timing speed of the various buses also changes. This reduces the battery discharge rate, and lengthens battery life significantly.
The new variable timing technology has not been confirmed for the January 2003 update but appears possible. It could also could be for the next (or even next next) generation model. Pretty cool actually.
i think that if the gen powerbooks have this then wow!
then i feel the next rev will have ddr etc. anyone agree with me?
cheers,
m2
i have always been happy with apples 3rd revs of laptops ... i have a wallstreet 300 and that was the rev of that model and i have a pismo and that is the 3rd rev of the curvy g3s and now the 800ti... not trying to say there is number thing going on here but generally apple gets it right 2 or 3 revs in the model... so what i'm hopping for the waiters is that they get the same form but better a class up on the innards...
so good luck ... and hope the thing really screams
cheers,
m2
<strong>
If you call c++ low level coding, I'm going to laugh at you. The mac is much better for low level coding, because it's essentially impossible to do on something as cryptic as an x86, unless you have a lot of time and a lot of experience.
So, in reality, the PPC/Mac would be a much better choice for running a huge Database. Pretty weird, huh?</strong><hr></blockquote>
the c++ stuff is based on ace & the stl so its portable accross multiple os's
for places where i dont have a choice i use
a mix of c & asm
for db's production wise solaris & compaq true64
are better choices than a ppc. im simply running a very small oracle instance on the laptop
gcc is an excellent compiler & since i dont use
any vc++ specifics it works fine for me
x86 is not cryptic if you know what your doing
i havent tried project builder but will look at
it
at this point.
the ti800 is still a good machine, but people should wait before paying so much..
$3400 is a lot of money with the economy the way it is at the moment, but it upto the consumers
to use common sense before spending their $$
apple will like any other corp use their customers
to their advantage, its upto the customers to ensure they are getting a good deal by voting
with their $$.
so i dont think waiting a couple of weeks
is gonna kill anyone
there got that off my chest
if theres no new pbooks but a rev d then maybe
apple can try the following
1.80gb hdd std
2.933 + l3 cache (maybe bump the cache up ?)
3.increase total ram to 2gb
4.64mb radeon 7500 or nvidia2go
most predictions have focused on gfx & the bus
but it also be nice to have more ram.
dont see any reason why portables cannot goto 2gb
any thoughts on this ?
as for new products... i wouldn't expect a PB update until MWSF and even then there is a good chance that it will be a new enclosure.... meaning that there will be Rev. A problems with the machine.... remember when the first Ti's came out? people were buying 500 Pismos because they felt they were a better deal. it wasn't until the Rev C machines (with the res upgrade... at least thats what did it for me) before the "new" form factor became better then the pismo...
so if you wait, you will never be happy...
just bite the bullet, get the PB and be happy with it... its not like when the new models come out you computer will be any worse...
the TiBook is a good machine, regardless of whether or not a better model comes out in the next month.... because there will most likely be problems associated with that as well...
that said... it would be nice if apple did make one more model of the TiBook like an ultimate config and drop the price of the 667 to $2300-$2400 and the 800 to $2900-$3000 and price the 1GHz ultimate config at around $3600-$3700... but why would that happen... since when has apple been reasonable and rational (at least to its consumers...) take a look at the iMac pricing... its been all over the map!!
[ 10-19-2002: Message edited by: Paul ]</p>
i agree 100% with paul there.....
it badly needs a price drop....
frankly some of the sluggishness will go away
if apple really goes all out & optimizes aqua
which is the biggest cpu/mem hog at the moment
its a little ridiculous to see x running quicker
than aqua (if you install gentoo linux which is
a superb distro ,,,www.gentoo.org)
for the people who need machines right away
get a ti800 & live with it....just make sure
its a rev c
apart from the heat issue i havent had any paint
issues after 4 months of daily use
for the airport stuff ...changing channels to something other than 1 dramatically improved
reception for me ...YMMV....
enjoy
pete
grin~!~ on the other hand waiting till nov 1
wont kill you either
[ 10-20-2002: Message edited by: Miles ]</p>
[quote]Mac OS X 10.2.2 will be the second interim upgrade to Apple's Unix-based OS since Jaguar shipped for $129 on Aug. 24. Apple reportedly seeded a pre-release build to developers earlier this month, minus the Elvis enhancements. While the company didn't provide a list of changes and bug fixes, testers said the update modified system files dealing with Address Book, Mail, Sherlock, NetInfo Manager, and Terminal utilities. <strong>Changes</strong> were also made to disc recording, <strong>power management, and drivers for ATI and Nvidia graphics processors.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Interesting that 10.2.2, expected in mere weeks, seems to have some tune-ups to Power Management, and some newer drivers for ATI graphic cards. HMmmmmm...sounds like the 10.2.2 update is partly for the new version of PowerBooks???
APPLE WILL NOT!!! I repeat NOT update the G4 powerbook until Feb 2003.
Please get over it and wait will Feb.
Jools
<strong>How many times do I have to tell you all! - I dont quite understand where any off you are coming from - I have told you a million times...
APPLE WILL NOT!!! I repeat NOT update the G4 powerbook until Feb 2003.
Please get over it and wait will Feb.
Jools</strong><hr></blockquote>Well then, supposing you're right, Apple is a pack of assholes. They need to update the PowerBook, and no, I don't think they'll let it shrivel until February of next year. Where the hell are you getting that info?
'Put up or Shut up'
In other words, qualify the source of your 'inside' information on Aplle's schedule for the PowerBook.
You can't just make a such grand statement without backing it up with actual evidence.
If you don't then we can only assume youre statement is completely unfounded.
<strong>Kitty litter, you're so full of crap.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Isn't that what kitty litter is FOR?
Thanks,
-Chris
The only thing you'll get with the 1GHz Ti will probably be things like faster encoding of QuickTime movies, better game performance, etc.
EDIT: Yes, I own a 800 Ti. You will probably want to wait, though; new models are rumored for October 23rd, but we've heard that tripe before.
[ 10-21-2002: Message edited by: Steve ]</p>
Speed bumps and feature revisions are usually made available immediately. On new models or heavy revisions there might be a wait. That doesn't answer your question, does it?
The last PowerBook rev was available immediately, as were the newest Power Macs, except for the 1.25GHz model (where we can assume they were waiting for processors from Motorola). The one nice thing about Apple's new "quiet" introduction strategy is that they can usually just wait until the machines are ready before announcing them, rather than having to announce at an expo in July and saying they'll ship in September.