<strong>I figure there's still one more improvement due in the Quicksilver/MDD line.
MWNY01 - dual 800MHz Quicksilver
MWSF02 (almost) - dual 1GHZ Quicksilver
MWNY02 - dual 1.25GHz MDD
MWSF03 - dual 1.5 to 1.6GHz MDD
I don't believe Apple is going to get rid of the MDD enclosure until it has been in service for a year, like the Quicksilver. The speed prediction is based on the steady 25% increases we have been seeing recently. It looks like these four releases were planned a long time ago. The overall speed increase will be right around 100% in 18 months. Sound familiar?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ummm...the dual 1.25 were not released until August and were not shipped until October so your timeline is a bit off. There will one more Rev of the G4 before the 970 is released. I doubt it will be in MWSF though.
also the law you are referring to is not based on clock speed, but on the overall speed of the processor which is related to but seperate from the clock speed.
I think it would be nice for Apple to update their consumer lines before the x-mas shopping season (eMac/iMac) and I really wouldn't mind MWSF being a pure software show - if Apple can deliver good softwae, that is.
In my opinion Apple will be focusing more on selling the Macs because of what you can do with them and not updated models, really.
I mean, if press/ads tell Joe Schmoe that he can write documents, spreadsheets, make drawings, edit video and shuffle mp3s around without having to worry where to get his w4rezed Wh0rd fo Xp that's simply more of a reason to buy a computer for Joe than having 3ghz is. Apple is on the best way of being percieves as _the_ platform to do media for home users so switching the big shows to demoing what you _can do_ with a Mac is better than Photoshop bakeoffs.
Be honest now, whom but us geeks actually cares if his iMac runs on a 100 or 133 bus, as long as one can use it to make clips of your kids goofing up at the pool :cool:
So I guess updates of consumer lines will happen before xmas and pro line will maybe get a bump in january (since from what I know january is the time for businesses to buy new equipment).
so, what do both markets - pros/consumers - need next?
consumers like cheap, reliable, "complete" (aka= software) machines; the ibook is good enough for a while; the imac is still a class of its own (16:9 screen will be still a killer argument FOR an imac); the folks like me need plug-n-play for all needs: audio (itunes), video (imovie3), office (Aworks7) - so, what will we see:
"just" software in jan for the masses? (and WHAT improved software - it will be a fest!)
--------------
pros do need FASTER machines; they need CHEAPER machines - the market is still absolutely down, nobody dares to invest? the guys from the IT dept need very good arguments for the whitecollarguys from controlling, why they need new machines? btw: a OsX version of XPress does also mean lots of investment for new software? "hey, the old program does work, doesn't it? And, funny haired Art Director, don't tell me, the new version does more then the old one? harharhar"
2 possibilites: someone has a very good trick out of the hat, how a G4 boosts like hell; or, Steve is able to say "put your investements in new hardware on cease - on 24March03 I will sell the G5 dreammachine!"
I had used the wireless keyboard and mouse, that was a very bad design because you will never know when the batteries will actually run out of the power although they had the power indications. This is annoying especially the wireless optical mouse. It is the real pain in the ass when the mice was out of power and you didn't have any batteries available while you had lots of report to write, since then, I sold the wireless keyboard and mouse and replace them with a USB one.
<strong>A 1ghz G4 iMac would have to have at least a 133mhz bus. I forget offhand what the max bus multiplier for the G4 was, but I recall it was below 10.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You'r thinking of something different. The max multiplier is 16. And the max for the yet to be released 7457 will be 32.
perhaps you are thinking about the last half integer multiple for the 7450-5 which is 8.5.
Steve will talk 1 1/2h about Software only, especially the Digital Hub and how well it goes and the transition to MacOS X and how well that goes. That's it.
New hardware will follow late January to late February, nothing spectacular, just a 100MHz increase here and some 200MHz there for iMac and PowerMac.
also the law you are referring to is not based on clock speed, but on the overall speed of the processor which is related to but seperate from the clock speed.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, as has been stated many times on this board, Moore's law has nothing to do with speed (clock or processing), at least directly. He simply stated that the number of transistors in the leading process would double every 18 months.
It is all marketing. Bill Gates on the Today show pushing tablet PC's. The issue is innovation not speed. Isn't Apple going to innovate their way out of the industry slowdown. Try the Compaq <a href="http://www.smb.compaq.com/html/tablet/index.asp?c=smbtabletpc_SMBSublevel&n=D_I_DR_148x1 10_G_x_1699newcompaqtabletpctc1000&r=smb_SubLevNot ebooks_L&BEID=19701&SBLID=&oi=E9CED&t=ad" target="_blank">TC1000</a> for innovation that will get consumer attention.
At the sub-$1000 price point, I'd be perfectly happy with a fast CD-RW. They burn faster anyway. Either of these low-end models would fit nicely with my purchasing plans. Just so that I can save money a bit longer, I've said that I won't buy until I can get a Ghz entry-level system. Ideally, I'd want enough money left over for a 17" widescreen LCD, or even better the rumored 19" widescreen.
I difinitely agree that after yesterday's new 'Books we won't see any new Apple hardware until MWSF. After all, most Pros don't have to ask Santa for new hardware.
<strong>T/iBooks in early May, all new, new case etc.</strong><hr></blockquote>
One of the things I never understand is why Mac users are always demanding new cases. If it is a case (forgive the pun) of improving a flaw like in the PowerMacs I can understand it but the Powerbook really is a great form factor. I really don't know why people would want to change it.
I see Apple updating iMacs prior to MWSF. Currently the iMac is the oldest Mac, followed by the Powermacs...So Apple can update all products except the towers before MWSF. Then at MWSF the show will focus on Powermacs. Why this big focus on the towers? He he he he!
Within the next month:
iMac update.
$200 price drop across the iMac lineup:
999
17" LCD display
867 MHz G4
Geforce 4 MX 32 MB
CDRW
1299
17" LCD display
867 MHz G4
Geforce 4 MX 32 MB
Combo
1499
17" LCD display
1 GHz G4
Geforce 4 MX 32 MB
Superdrive
1799
19" LCD display
1 GHz G4
ATI Radeon 9000 pro 64 MM
Superdrive
One product line left for MWSF.....
Powermacs. We've been hearing that the 970 will not be ready before the end of 03, that we must settle for a 7457 G4 with a measly 200 Hz FSB and an ultra-lame clockspeed of 1.3 GHz. Fu[k that. I believe that Apple and IBM have conspired to hide the truth about how close the PPC 970 is to full-scale production. I'm talkin' outta my ass here, but what else makes sense? Would Apple devote a MWSF to Powermacs if all we had were the 7457 G4s? Even at 1.5 GHZ, they wouldn't be something to focus the spotlight on. Also consider that the MDD Powermacs wreak of "stop-gap models" with a short lifespan.
Apple announces PPC 970 based Powermacs, with REDUCTIONS in prices! Seriously, I expect the towers to drop in price with the introduction of PPC 970s, because I suspect they will be cheaper for Apple to buy than Moto's G4. Like I said I'm talkin' outta my ass so just chill.
Announced at MWSF, shipping by April. Duals on the midrange and high end. New tower case design.
Of course with the intro of the PPC 970 in a Mac, Jobs will have to run lots of bake-offs. Figure about an hour of bake-of time during the expo, a good time to go get baked outdoors behind the civic center.
Ok, the more realistic scenario is that MWSF focuses on the iMacs, which will go a full year without an update (once a killer design, now entirely non-competitive because of Apple's refusal to upgrade the performance or lower the price).
7457 in late Jan or Feb, in a stealth announcement as is usual for Powermacs.
<strong>It is all marketing. Bill Gates on the Today show pushing tablet PC's. The issue is innovation not speed. Isn't Apple going to innovate their way out of the industry slowdown. Try the Compaq <a href="http://www.smb.compaq.com/html/tablet/index.asp?c=smbtabletpc_SMBSublevel&n=D_I_DR_148x1 10_G_x_1699newcompaqtabletpctc1000&r=smb_SubLevNot ebooks_L&BEID=19701&SBLID=&oi=E9CED&t=ad" target="_blank">TC1000</a> for innovation that will get consumer attention.</strong><hr></blockquote>
[quote] According to those number-crunchers at Gartner Dataquest, Tablet PCs will account for just 1.2 per cent of all worldwide notebook shipments in 2003 - equivalent to 423,000 units. <hr></blockquote>I wouldn't really call that getting consumer attention. I expect it will end up much like the Newton near term where the medical profession and a few other niches pick up on it but not a lot of other people.
By the time it really picks up the worst of the downturn will be gone.
<strong>It is all marketing. Bill Gates on the Today show pushing tablet PC's. The issue is innovation not speed. Isn't Apple going to innovate their way out of the industry slowdown. Try the Compaq <a href="http://www.smb.compaq.com/html/tablet/index.asp?c=smbtabletpc_SMBSublevel&n=D_I_DR_148x1 10_G_x_1699newcompaqtabletpctc1000&r=smb_SubLevNot ebooks_L&BEID=19701&SBLID=&oi=E9CED&t=ad" target="_blank">TC1000</a> for innovation that will get consumer attention.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What's interesting is that the desktop image MS shows for the Tablet PC is that of a green hill (a grassy knoll? :eek: ) with a bright blue sky above it. The one on the T1000 is a dead ringer for the OS X default desktop. Rather odd coincidence...
<strong>I'm not so sure we'll see a 19" iMac. I think they could sell a lot of them, but I'd rather see Apple work on making the consumer desktops cheaper and faster.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with Matsu, kinda. A 19" iMac has the viewable area almost as large as a 21" CRT. A 21" CRT is not for the home user. Plus it kills the possibility of selling the large Apple flat panels.
<strong>Announced at MWSF, shipping by April. Duals on the midrange and high end. New tower case design.</strong><hr></blockquote>
JYD, I like your thinking. But wasn't the new Buick Roadmaster wind tunnels supposed to cool that massive 7lb, or whatever, heatsink? Not sure about the case design change, but 970 introduction, ahoy! I've been of that thinking since learning of the gp-ul.
Well, one thing is a given, no new powermacs at MWSF. They would be announced later in the month or in Feb. They will have the new Moto G4, new mobo, faster FSB and should have reall DDR. The case will probably stay the same because it will change 6 months later when the 970 comes out.
<strong>It is all marketing. Bill Gates on the Today show pushing tablet PC's. The issue is innovation not speed. Isn't Apple going to innovate their way out of the industry slowdown. Try the Compaq <a href="http://www.smb.compaq.com/html/tablet/index.asp?c=smbtabletpc_SMBSublevel&n=D_I_DR_148x1 10_G_x_1699newcompaqtabletpctc1000&r=smb_SubLevNot ebooks_L&BEID=19701&SBLID=&oi=E9CED&t=ad" target="_blank">TC1000</a> for innovation that will get consumer attention.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yea and on CNN, the tag lines says-
$400 Million Dollar Gamble: Experts say new microsoft tablet has very little 'new' in it.
Comments
<strong>I figure there's still one more improvement due in the Quicksilver/MDD line.
MWNY01 - dual 800MHz Quicksilver
MWSF02 (almost) - dual 1GHZ Quicksilver
MWNY02 - dual 1.25GHz MDD
MWSF03 - dual 1.5 to 1.6GHz MDD
I don't believe Apple is going to get rid of the MDD enclosure until it has been in service for a year, like the Quicksilver. The speed prediction is based on the steady 25% increases we have been seeing recently. It looks like these four releases were planned a long time ago. The overall speed increase will be right around 100% in 18 months. Sound familiar?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ummm...the dual 1.25 were not released until August and were not shipped until October so your timeline is a bit off. There will one more Rev of the G4 before the 970 is released. I doubt it will be in MWSF though.
also the law you are referring to is not based on clock speed, but on the overall speed of the processor which is related to but seperate from the clock speed.
In my opinion Apple will be focusing more on selling the Macs because of what you can do with them and not updated models, really.
I mean, if press/ads tell Joe Schmoe that he can write documents, spreadsheets, make drawings, edit video and shuffle mp3s around without having to worry where to get his w4rezed Wh0rd fo Xp that's simply more of a reason to buy a computer for Joe than having 3ghz is. Apple is on the best way of being percieves as _the_ platform to do media for home users so switching the big shows to demoing what you _can do_ with a Mac is better than Photoshop bakeoffs.
Be honest now, whom but us geeks actually cares if his iMac runs on a 100 or 133 bus, as long as one can use it to make clips of your kids goofing up at the pool :cool:
So I guess updates of consumer lines will happen before xmas and pro line will maybe get a bump in january (since from what I know january is the time for businesses to buy new equipment).
the consumer laptop is CHEAPER.
the pro model is really IMPROVED (superdrive).
so, what do both markets - pros/consumers - need next?
consumers like cheap, reliable, "complete" (aka= software) machines; the ibook is good enough for a while; the imac is still a class of its own (16:9 screen will be still a killer argument FOR an imac); the folks like me need plug-n-play for all needs: audio (itunes), video (imovie3), office (Aworks7) - so, what will we see:
"just" software in jan for the masses? (and WHAT improved software - it will be a fest!)
--------------
pros do need FASTER machines; they need CHEAPER machines - the market is still absolutely down, nobody dares to invest? the guys from the IT dept need very good arguments for the whitecollarguys from controlling, why they need new machines? btw: a OsX version of XPress does also mean lots of investment for new software? "hey, the old program does work, doesn't it? And, funny haired Art Director, don't tell me, the new version does more then the old one? harharhar"
2 possibilites: someone has a very good trick out of the hat, how a G4 boosts like hell; or, Steve is able to say "put your investements in new hardware on cease - on 24March03 I will sell the G5 dreammachine!"
for the pros in jan just some improved G4?
-----------
Does this nail them to a january release of new hardware?
How about the price drops on the new 'Books, did Apple cut its margins or did production and parts cost fall?
I hope for price drops in the range of $200 and hardwarebumps on all consumer desktops - thus making them really competitive.
Wasn't the LCD-iMac always better in specs than the PowerBook?
And the eMac really needs to take the CRT-iMac's place and get a better CRT. How well are the CRT-iMacs selling these days?
I don't know about the pro-machines, but Apple should release a timeline when to expect next-generation hardware.
[ 11-07-2002: Message edited by: RolandG ]</p>
<strong>A 1ghz G4 iMac would have to have at least a 133mhz bus. I forget offhand what the max bus multiplier for the G4 was, but I recall it was below 10.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You'r thinking of something different. The max multiplier is 16. And the max for the yet to be released 7457 will be 32.
perhaps you are thinking about the last half integer multiple for the 7450-5 which is 8.5.
New hardware will follow late January to late February, nothing spectacular, just a 100MHz increase here and some 200MHz there for iMac and PowerMac.
T/iBooks in early May, all new, new case etc.
At least that's what I expect.
cheers.
[ 11-07-2002: Message edited by: GnOm ]</p>
1.0GHz DP, 2MB L3, 166MHz bus, 256MB RAM, 60GB HDD, Combo Drive, Radeon 9000 -$1499
1.2GHz DP, 2MB L3, 200MHz bus, 512MB RAM, 100GB HDD, Super Drive, Radeon 9000 -$2199
1.5GHz DP, 4MB L3, 200MHz bus, 512MB RAM, 160GB HDD, Super Drive, Radeon 9700 -$2999
And hopefully they add a new entry level model:
1.0GHz SP, 1MB L3, 166MHz bus, 256MB RAM, 40GB HDD, Combo* Drive, Radeon 7500 -$999
*maybe the Combo Drive will need to be replaced with a CDRW.
<strong>
also the law you are referring to is not based on clock speed, but on the overall speed of the processor which is related to but seperate from the clock speed.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, as has been stated many times on this board, Moore's law has nothing to do with speed (clock or processing), at least directly. He simply stated that the number of transistors in the leading process would double every 18 months.
<strong>1.0GHz DP, 2MB L3, 166MHz bus, 256MB RAM, 60GB HDD, Combo Drive, Radeon 9000 -$1499
1.0GHz SP, 1MB L3, 166MHz bus, 256MB RAM, 40GB HDD, Combo* Drive, Radeon 7500 -$999[/i]</strong><hr></blockquote>
At the sub-$1000 price point, I'd be perfectly happy with a fast CD-RW. They burn faster anyway. Either of these low-end models would fit nicely with my purchasing plans. Just so that I can save money a bit longer, I've said that I won't buy until I can get a Ghz entry-level system. Ideally, I'd want enough money left over for a 17" widescreen LCD, or even better the rumored 19" widescreen.
I difinitely agree that after yesterday's new 'Books we won't see any new Apple hardware until MWSF. After all, most Pros don't have to ask Santa for new hardware.
Escher
<strong>T/iBooks in early May, all new, new case etc.</strong><hr></blockquote>
One of the things I never understand is why Mac users are always demanding new cases. If it is a case (forgive the pun) of improving a flaw like in the PowerMacs I can understand it but the Powerbook really is a great form factor. I really don't know why people would want to change it.
Within the next month:
iMac update.
$200 price drop across the iMac lineup:
999
17" LCD display
867 MHz G4
Geforce 4 MX 32 MB
CDRW
1299
17" LCD display
867 MHz G4
Geforce 4 MX 32 MB
Combo
1499
17" LCD display
1 GHz G4
Geforce 4 MX 32 MB
Superdrive
1799
19" LCD display
1 GHz G4
ATI Radeon 9000 pro 64 MM
Superdrive
One product line left for MWSF.....
Powermacs. We've been hearing that the 970 will not be ready before the end of 03, that we must settle for a 7457 G4 with a measly 200 Hz FSB and an ultra-lame clockspeed of 1.3 GHz. Fu[k that. I believe that Apple and IBM have conspired to hide the truth about how close the PPC 970 is to full-scale production. I'm talkin' outta my ass here, but what else makes sense? Would Apple devote a MWSF to Powermacs if all we had were the 7457 G4s? Even at 1.5 GHZ, they wouldn't be something to focus the spotlight on. Also consider that the MDD Powermacs wreak of "stop-gap models" with a short lifespan.
Apple announces PPC 970 based Powermacs, with REDUCTIONS in prices! Seriously, I expect the towers to drop in price with the introduction of PPC 970s, because I suspect they will be cheaper for Apple to buy than Moto's G4. Like I said I'm talkin' outta my ass so just chill.
Announced at MWSF, shipping by April. Duals on the midrange and high end. New tower case design.
Of course with the intro of the PPC 970 in a Mac, Jobs will have to run lots of bake-offs. Figure about an hour of bake-of time during the expo, a good time to go get baked outdoors behind the civic center.
Ok, the more realistic scenario is that MWSF focuses on the iMacs, which will go a full year without an update (once a killer design, now entirely non-competitive because of Apple's refusal to upgrade the performance or lower the price).
7457 in late Jan or Feb, in a stealth announcement as is usual for Powermacs.
<strong>It is all marketing. Bill Gates on the Today show pushing tablet PC's. The issue is innovation not speed. Isn't Apple going to innovate their way out of the industry slowdown. Try the Compaq <a href="http://www.smb.compaq.com/html/tablet/index.asp?c=smbtabletpc_SMBSublevel&n=D_I_DR_148x1 10_G_x_1699newcompaqtabletpctc1000&r=smb_SubLevNot ebooks_L&BEID=19701&SBLID=&oi=E9CED&t=ad" target="_blank">TC1000</a> for innovation that will get consumer attention.</strong><hr></blockquote>
[quote] According to those number-crunchers at Gartner Dataquest, Tablet PCs will account for just 1.2 per cent of all worldwide notebook shipments in 2003 - equivalent to 423,000 units. <hr></blockquote>I wouldn't really call that getting consumer attention. I expect it will end up much like the Newton near term where the medical profession and a few other niches pick up on it but not a lot of other people.
By the time it really picks up the worst of the downturn will be gone.
[ 11-07-2002: Message edited by: Telomar ]</p>
<strong>It is all marketing. Bill Gates on the Today show pushing tablet PC's. The issue is innovation not speed. Isn't Apple going to innovate their way out of the industry slowdown. Try the Compaq <a href="http://www.smb.compaq.com/html/tablet/index.asp?c=smbtabletpc_SMBSublevel&n=D_I_DR_148x1 10_G_x_1699newcompaqtabletpctc1000&r=smb_SubLevNot ebooks_L&BEID=19701&SBLID=&oi=E9CED&t=ad" target="_blank">TC1000</a> for innovation that will get consumer attention.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What's interesting is that the desktop image MS shows for the Tablet PC is that of a green hill (a grassy knoll? :eek: ) with a bright blue sky above it. The one on the T1000 is a dead ringer for the OS X default desktop. Rather odd coincidence...
<strong>I'm not so sure we'll see a 19" iMac. I think they could sell a lot of them, but I'd rather see Apple work on making the consumer desktops cheaper and faster.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree with Matsu, kinda. A 19" iMac has the viewable area almost as large as a 21" CRT. A 21" CRT is not for the home user. Plus it kills the possibility of selling the large Apple flat panels.
<strong>Announced at MWSF, shipping by April. Duals on the midrange and high end. New tower case design.</strong><hr></blockquote>
JYD, I like your thinking. But wasn't the new Buick Roadmaster wind tunnels supposed to cool that massive 7lb, or whatever, heatsink? Not sure about the case design change, but 970 introduction, ahoy! I've been of that thinking since learning of the gp-ul.
<strong>It is all marketing. Bill Gates on the Today show pushing tablet PC's. The issue is innovation not speed. Isn't Apple going to innovate their way out of the industry slowdown. Try the Compaq <a href="http://www.smb.compaq.com/html/tablet/index.asp?c=smbtabletpc_SMBSublevel&n=D_I_DR_148x1 10_G_x_1699newcompaqtabletpctc1000&r=smb_SubLevNot ebooks_L&BEID=19701&SBLID=&oi=E9CED&t=ad" target="_blank">TC1000</a> for innovation that will get consumer attention.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yea and on CNN, the tag lines says-
$400 Million Dollar Gamble: Experts say new microsoft tablet has very little 'new' in it.