I didn't say they didn't shoot or that it wasn't excessive. You said it was premeditated.
To plan, arrange, or plot (a crime, for example) in advance.
v. intr.
To reflect, ponder, or deliberate beforehand.
So you are claiming that these cops in entirely different cars somehow planned, arranged or plotted to kill this guy before they carried it out.
You are claiming that when they stepped out of the car after the chase, they knew they were going to kill this man. I see plenty of proof for all sorts of claims, but not for that one.
Nick
i think that police are trained by all logic to not shoot unless threatened (and this threatened is not the shoot and ask questions latter threatened, this threatenend is the do i see a gun, if i see a gun is it really a gun, if it is a gun, i warn the gun carrier etc etc...). police that skip that step premeditate the actions that follow -- instead of going by the books, they think, probably well before the incident happens (unless they are dolts), that if they encounter anyone with a gun they will kill them. i did not say the police got together to plan to murder this man. only one needs to have the conception that if they see a gun they will shoot. all the others just have to have the conception that if they hear fire they will shoot as well -- that is where all the premeditation occurs...
i think that police are trained by all logic to not shoot unless threatened (and this threatened is not the shoot and ask questions latter threatened, this threatenend is the do i see a gun, if i see a gun is it really a gun, if it is a gun, i warn the gun carrier etc etc...). police that skip that step premeditate the actions that follow -- instead of going by the books, they think, probably well before the incident happens (unless they are dolts), that if they encounter anyone with a gun they will kill them. i did not say the police got together to plan to murder this man. only one needs to have the conception that if they see a gun they will shoot. all the others just have to have the conception that if they hear fire they will shoot as well -- that is where all the premeditation occurs...
Again you are getting into thoughts and motives with no backing. Did one of the officers have a history of pulling his weapon or firing often? That and it is a fairly heavy claim. Idiots yes, premeditated murderers, no.
first: the suspect was an ass ( and drunk) for getting out of his car and pointing anything at an armed cop. Doubly an ass because he is black and should know that white cops do not value black lives as much as thier own or other white people.
Having said that;
second: Having examined that tape.
a) He was shot 8 times. He was shot at no less than 9 times. I counted at least 9 shots.
b) When he ran in front of the nearest camera there was one cop with his gun drawn and not more than 2 feet away from the suspect. Why was he unable to discern "the weapon?" Why did the suspect point the "weapon" at the cop closest to him rather than the cop at the far end (off camera)?
c) The cop closest to him actually put his gun to the head of the suspect. At which point, had he felt threatened he could have fired. But the suspect not only lowered "the weapon." He did try to use it.
d) After the "gun to the head" the suspect manages to "walk" away from the aformentioned officer, still holding the "weapon." If the officer felt that he or his partner were in mortal danger, why not shoot now?
e) the suspect manages to walk no less than 10 feet away from both officers when one of them fires two shots at his back. At this time the suspects hannds are down. After being shot (at?) twice he turns his torso around and raises the hand without the "Weapon." that is NOT a shooting stance.
f) The far officer who was off camera during the "gun to the head" incident then continues to charge the suspect, who has now again turned his back to the officers and is walking away, and repeatedly fires at the suspect's back until he drops to the ground with the presumable 8 shots.
That my friends is an execution. Two times the officers had the opportunity to shoot the suspect when he was facing them with the so called "weapon." They chose instead to wait until he was walking away from them and posed no threat to thier lives. They COULD have called in backup. They COULD have waited for back up to come and surround the suspect and accertain whether he indeed had a weapon. especially since he failed to use it the two opportunities he had.
I´ll try again: If weapons wasn´t so widespread in US situations where cops take a cellphone for a gun would not occur.
He was killed because guns are so common in US. Not because he had one himself.
Why isn´t that a good argument against guns?
I think you just made your own point. He didn't have a gun yet mangaged to take a fairly normal situation and escalate it into a shooting---had he obeyed the officers this would not have happened.
You don't need guns to cause problems. The murder rate in Paris is 5 per 100,000.
I think you just made your own point. He didn't have a gun yet mangaged to take a fairly normal situation and escalate it into a shooting---had he obeyed the officers this would not have happened.
So him not obeing the officers is the reason for this? If had behaved like this he wouldn´t have been shot.
Quote:
Originally posted by ena
You don't need guns to cause problems. The murder rate in Paris is 5 per 100,000.
The killing by guns alone in US is over 10 per 100.000. Thats not including homocide by other means. And murder rates normally are higher in dence populated areas than in a country on a whole. Your point was again?
We have racist cops galore in the US (and everywhere else in the world you holier-than-thou shitheads who love to act like the US is unique in this regard).
I don't think it's obvious he was in a "shooter's stance" with his shiny object. I don't think the cops needed to shoot him in the back 8 times.
A black man killed by cops will ALWAYS raise a red flag with me. There's just too much very very recent history for it not to.
What is the defining difference between this situation in US and if it happened where I live if not the numbers of guns?
well, i would guess there's at least a half a dozen key differences between the law enforcement, society, violence in general, training, pay, overall wealth, on and on.
to try and say "it's cause there are guns!" without anything else to support it is pointless.
Lets make a example of thoughts. If handguns weren´t so widespread in US perhaps holding a shiny thing in ones hands would not make someone think "handgun" right away?
Did you look at the video and use your head or are you just stupid?
Guy gets out of car with arms up like he's holding a gun. Guy has his back to the cop closest to him. Cops don't have X-ray vision. Guy holds arms down and turns back to hide what's in his hands. Cops don't shoot to wound or shoot warning shots. Just shoot to kill.
This guy either wanted to be killed or was playing a very dangrous game and lost big time. Nothing to see here move along.
Ooopps no. Black guy white cops <bing kneejerk reaction> racist.
Did you look at the video and use your head or are you just stupid?
Guy gets out of car with arms up like he's holding a gun. Guy has his back to the cop closest to him.
nope.. I have the screenshot. the officer closest to the suspect is in fact at the suspects side. He can clearly see the suspecs hands and face. the officer closest to the viewer has HIS back to the camera.
Did you look at the video and use your head or are you just stupid?
Guy gets out of car with arms up like he's holding a gun. Guy has his back to the cop closest to him. Cops don't have X-ray vision. Guy holds arms down and turns back to hide what's in his hands. Cops don't shoot to wound or shoot warning shots. Just shoot to kill.
This guy either wanted to be killed or was playing a very dangrous game and lost big time. Nothing to see here move along.
Due to a former job in the worst drug and prostetution area in Copenhagen (no not pimp) I have seen situations like this many times with people being much more threatening than this individual. And holding things that reminded a lot more of guns than a silver cell phone without the police shooting them. Not even non-fatal shots.
Quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Ooopps no. Black guy white cops <bing kneejerk reaction> racist.
You have your head put royally up your ass to write with such stupidity. Where did I write anything about racism or even hint anything about it? I said the cops were acting like they were on steroides (shooting people in the back clearly on their way away=too much aggresivity) and they acted like they did because possesion of weapons are a common thing. Hell. I don´t even know if any of the police officers were blacks.
I guess no one in here has never been in a situation where you don't have time to think... 8 shots is not that many.. and can happen faster than you think. The guy was stupid to be holding anything at all.
However once I was hanging out with some friends in dallas, and this cop car started following us... then 2, and then 6 just encircled us... we all had to get out of the car, now i'm white, but 2 friends of mine there were black and another one was mexican, and the driver was white. Four cops get outwith shot guns and come up to the windows and scream at us over a PA to get out... anyways If had been holding anything the same could have happened to us I'd imagine, remember its not a time to be cocky. So all had to get on the ground with our backs behind our backs and they cuffed us with the plastic kind (those really hurt a lot) and start looking in the car. Apparenttly they thought the car was stolen and it wasn't... they said the 1 on the license plate looked like a I or L or somethen, some dumb excuse, I was so pissed. heh But they were doing their job, and its a tough job, what do you do when all the gangsters have betters guns than you? when they all know you have to fight them with your hands behind your back as is. The only thing cops have are numbers and radios... but everyone has guns.
Its a tough job being a cop people, and remember not all cops are white.
Murder, anger, hate, destruction, violence, meanness, lying and stupidity were all invented in America around the time of the American Revolutionary War.
Comments
Originally posted by trumptman
I didn't say they didn't shoot or that it wasn't excessive. You said it was premeditated.
To plan, arrange, or plot (a crime, for example) in advance.
v. intr.
To reflect, ponder, or deliberate beforehand.
So you are claiming that these cops in entirely different cars somehow planned, arranged or plotted to kill this guy before they carried it out.
You are claiming that when they stepped out of the car after the chase, they knew they were going to kill this man. I see plenty of proof for all sorts of claims, but not for that one.
Nick
i think that police are trained by all logic to not shoot unless threatened (and this threatened is not the shoot and ask questions latter threatened, this threatenend is the do i see a gun, if i see a gun is it really a gun, if it is a gun, i warn the gun carrier etc etc...). police that skip that step premeditate the actions that follow -- instead of going by the books, they think, probably well before the incident happens (unless they are dolts), that if they encounter anyone with a gun they will kill them. i did not say the police got together to plan to murder this man. only one needs to have the conception that if they see a gun they will shoot. all the others just have to have the conception that if they hear fire they will shoot as well -- that is where all the premeditation occurs...
Originally posted by billybobsky
i think that police are trained by all logic to not shoot unless threatened (and this threatened is not the shoot and ask questions latter threatened, this threatenend is the do i see a gun, if i see a gun is it really a gun, if it is a gun, i warn the gun carrier etc etc...). police that skip that step premeditate the actions that follow -- instead of going by the books, they think, probably well before the incident happens (unless they are dolts), that if they encounter anyone with a gun they will kill them. i did not say the police got together to plan to murder this man. only one needs to have the conception that if they see a gun they will shoot. all the others just have to have the conception that if they hear fire they will shoot as well -- that is where all the premeditation occurs...
Again you are getting into thoughts and motives with no backing. Did one of the officers have a history of pulling his weapon or firing often? That and it is a fairly heavy claim. Idiots yes, premeditated murderers, no.
Nick
How many have had weapons pulled on them?
The moral of the story is when the Cop puts on his lights, pull over and be respectful.
Had he done that, he wouldn't have gotten shot.
Having said that;
second: Having examined that tape.
a) He was shot 8 times. He was shot at no less than 9 times. I counted at least 9 shots.
b) When he ran in front of the nearest camera there was one cop with his gun drawn and not more than 2 feet away from the suspect. Why was he unable to discern "the weapon?" Why did the suspect point the "weapon" at the cop closest to him rather than the cop at the far end (off camera)?
c) The cop closest to him actually put his gun to the head of the suspect. At which point, had he felt threatened he could have fired. But the suspect not only lowered "the weapon." He did try to use it.
d) After the "gun to the head" the suspect manages to "walk" away from the aformentioned officer, still holding the "weapon." If the officer felt that he or his partner were in mortal danger, why not shoot now?
e) the suspect manages to walk no less than 10 feet away from both officers when one of them fires two shots at his back. At this time the suspects hannds are down. After being shot (at?) twice he turns his torso around and raises the hand without the "Weapon." that is NOT a shooting stance.
f) The far officer who was off camera during the "gun to the head" incident then continues to charge the suspect, who has now again turned his back to the officers and is walking away, and repeatedly fires at the suspect's back until he drops to the ground with the presumable 8 shots.
That my friends is an execution. Two times the officers had the opportunity to shoot the suspect when he was facing them with the so called "weapon." They chose instead to wait until he was walking away from them and posed no threat to thier lives. They COULD have called in backup. They COULD have waited for back up to come and surround the suspect and accertain whether he indeed had a weapon. especially since he failed to use it the two opportunities he had.
He was killed because guns are so common in US. Not because he had one himself.
Why isn´t that a good argument against guns?
Originally posted by Anders
I´ll try again: If weapons wasn´t so widespread in US situations where cops take a cellphone for a gun would not occur.
He was killed because guns are so common in US. Not because he had one himself.
Why isn´t that a good argument against guns?
I think you just made your own point. He didn't have a gun yet mangaged to take a fairly normal situation and escalate it into a shooting---had he obeyed the officers this would not have happened.
You don't need guns to cause problems. The murder rate in Paris is 5 per 100,000.
He was killed because guns are so common in US. Not because he had one himself.
Why isn´t that a good argument against guns?
because it's not based on fact but assumptions?
Originally posted by ena
I think you just made your own point. He didn't have a gun yet mangaged to take a fairly normal situation and escalate it into a shooting---had he obeyed the officers this would not have happened.
So him not obeing the officers is the reason for this? If had behaved like this he wouldn´t have been shot.
Originally posted by ena
You don't need guns to cause problems. The murder rate in Paris is 5 per 100,000.
The killing by guns alone in US is over 10 per 100.000. Thats not including homocide by other means. And murder rates normally are higher in dence populated areas than in a country on a whole. Your point was again?
Originally posted by alcimedes
because it's not based on fact but assumptions?
Again: What is the defining difference between this situation in US and if it happened where I live if not the numbers of guns?
Originally posted by ena
How many have had weapons pulled on them?
me me me.... when you set off your house alarm with adt, it is met with excessive force, and i do mean excessive...
Originally posted by Anders
So him not obeing the officers is the reason for this? If had behaved like this he wouldn´t have been shot.
The Diallo Shooting in NY shows that Black men are shot at when they are no threat.
Patrick Dorismond was shot for refusing drugs from an undercover narcotics officer.
Originally posted by billybobsky
me me me.... when you set off your house alarm with adt, it is met with excessive force, and i do mean excessive...
By the cops or the robbers? I assume you mean cops but not entirely clear.
I don't think it's obvious he was in a "shooter's stance" with his shiny object. I don't think the cops needed to shoot him in the back 8 times.
A black man killed by cops will ALWAYS raise a red flag with me. There's just too much very very recent history for it not to.
Originally posted by Anders
So him not obeing the officers is the reason for this? If had behaved like this he wouldn´t have been shot.
yes
On the murder rate---it's a cultural problem, America has always had guns, but the murder rate has not always been what it is now.
Careful when you break down the demographics though---they'll call you a racist.
What is the defining difference between this situation in US and if it happened where I live if not the numbers of guns?
well, i would guess there's at least a half a dozen key differences between the law enforcement, society, violence in general, training, pay, overall wealth, on and on.
to try and say "it's cause there are guns!" without anything else to support it is pointless.
Originally posted by Anders
And that warrant 8 shots in the back?
Lets make a example of thoughts. If handguns weren´t so widespread in US perhaps holding a shiny thing in ones hands would not make someone think "handgun" right away?
Did you look at the video and use your head or are you just stupid?
Guy gets out of car with arms up like he's holding a gun. Guy has his back to the cop closest to him. Cops don't have X-ray vision. Guy holds arms down and turns back to hide what's in his hands. Cops don't shoot to wound or shoot warning shots. Just shoot to kill.
This guy either wanted to be killed or was playing a very dangrous game and lost big time. Nothing to see here move along.
Ooopps no. Black guy white cops <bing kneejerk reaction> racist.
Originally posted by Scott
Did you look at the video and use your head or are you just stupid?
Guy gets out of car with arms up like he's holding a gun. Guy has his back to the cop closest to him.
nope.. I have the screenshot. the officer closest to the suspect is in fact at the suspects side. He can clearly see the suspecs hands and face. the officer closest to the viewer has HIS back to the camera.
Originally posted by Scott
Did you look at the video and use your head or are you just stupid?
Guy gets out of car with arms up like he's holding a gun. Guy has his back to the cop closest to him. Cops don't have X-ray vision. Guy holds arms down and turns back to hide what's in his hands. Cops don't shoot to wound or shoot warning shots. Just shoot to kill.
This guy either wanted to be killed or was playing a very dangrous game and lost big time. Nothing to see here move along.
Due to a former job in the worst drug and prostetution area in Copenhagen (no not pimp) I have seen situations like this many times with people being much more threatening than this individual. And holding things that reminded a lot more of guns than a silver cell phone without the police shooting them. Not even non-fatal shots.
Originally posted by Scott
Ooopps no. Black guy white cops <bing kneejerk reaction> racist.
You have your head put royally up your ass to write with such stupidity. Where did I write anything about racism or even hint anything about it? I said the cops were acting like they were on steroides (shooting people in the back clearly on their way away=too much aggresivity) and they acted like they did because possesion of weapons are a common thing. Hell. I don´t even know if any of the police officers were blacks.
However once I was hanging out with some friends in dallas, and this cop car started following us... then 2, and then 6 just encircled us... we all had to get out of the car, now i'm white, but 2 friends of mine there were black and another one was mexican, and the driver was white. Four cops get outwith shot guns and come up to the windows and scream at us over a PA to get out... anyways If had been holding anything the same could have happened to us I'd imagine, remember its not a time to be cocky. So all had to get on the ground with our backs behind our backs and they cuffed us with the plastic kind (those really hurt a lot) and start looking in the car. Apparenttly they thought the car was stolen and it wasn't... they said the 1 on the license plate looked like a I or L or somethen, some dumb excuse, I was so pissed. heh But they were doing their job, and its a tough job, what do you do when all the gangsters have betters guns than you? when they all know you have to fight them with your hands behind your back as is. The only thing cops have are numbers and radios... but everyone has guns.
Its a tough job being a cop people, and remember not all cops are white.
Amazing, but true!