I'm hoping for a situation like we had when the b&w G3 was introduced. All the new specs and a new case were introduced at nearly half the price. Obviously we can't expect a sub-$1000 tower, but I don't think $1299 is TOO far fetched. There is also rumor of a workstation level system and Apple will need some distance in pricing there as well. (If that rumor turns out to be true) There are gonna be some amazing deals on old G4's come Monday, I'm sure of that...
I'd love to think that the prices would stay the same (or even-- dare I say it? drop), but, c'mon. This is Apple we're talking about here. A move to previous price points is probably going to happen (1699,2299, & 3299, right?).
Quote:
Now we could use a price drop on the displays, a 1.6 Ghz system with a 17 inch LCD for under $2000 would make me a happy man indeed.
Now that's an interesting idea. What's more likely is that Apple would offer a rebate to bring the price under $2k.
Fair enough, Fred. Don't forget about the flimsy new keyboard and mouse.
aaaarrrrgggghhhhhglargle......return of the puck and miniboard????
----------------------
Also, remember that any downward pressure on the Powermac increases the downward pressure on the iMac.....and I'm not of the impression that Apple is making a whole lot of margin on them to begin with.
How many people wanna bet the Matsu will be disappointed no matter what?
He wants a PowerMac at Low End iMac prices...
You mean he wants what computers actually cost in the Real World nowadays.
If the low end is $1299, I'll put an order in on Monday. If its $1599, I'll wait 9 months for a possible price drop and then decide if I even really need or want one. In 9 months, who knows what Opteron 64bit machines will be out there.
And who besides Dell and Apple is making a profit?
Don't kid yourself.
And BTW, according to The Register, Sun is releasing a 64bit workstation soon under $2k. So I would think Apple could release one for considerably less.
So then logically, Matsu, you'd accept a tradeoff of a 1299-1499 entry level in return for a 2999-3299 high end?
Yep, I would, these machines have to cover a lot of territory, from mid range to high end.
It is VERY VERY odd to speak of 1299-1499 towers as low end, in the rest of the market these would be high-end or upper mid range prices (for towers that come without displays). These are the market share building machines among a community that counts, PROS -- pros who will buy lotsa expensive software licenses, peripherals, service, they need a price on a PM class machine that can bring these people in, iMacs won't do it, they're boutique computers (especially in the minds of potential PM buyers).
It's gotta be a PM and as I've said, the bottom end spec doesn't have to be killer at all. Basic drive and RAM alotments will do, and a middling OK Gfx card, even something with just 32-64MB. The important thing is to get the cost of entry down and spurn some migration of the sorts of customers who will spend that ammount twice over in the years that follow in software, new machines, periphs, service etc etc... Pro customers can be very profitable, but you've got to think long term and get a bigger pool going. Pros will NOT switch to iMacs, and they will not overpay just for the privelege of "switching." There needs to be a hefty price incentive to go with all those other good things Apple provides.
It's all about principals. At $1299, I think Apple makes a smart movie and I *support* them by going out and buying the machine. At $1599, I think they're slightly greedy and might just watch from the sidelines unless there is something else that can put me over the edge.
And its not my allowance I'm worried about, its more like mortgage payments.
none of that matters? It's all about the bottom line?
So why aren't you guys buying eMacs?
If the eMac gets a 970... will you buy it for $899?
You act as if a person does not get an OS, software when buying another vendors machine.
eMacs will never be 64bit, they wont deal with 4gigs of RAM in 'em either. And before you ask, YES, I work with machines with 4Gigs+ of RAM. True, at home I only have 1Gig of RAM...
My point is, the price should be in ballpark range of everyone else. If a highend workstation companies like IBM/SGI/Sun releases 64bit workstations with 1Gig of RAM for decent prices, there is NO reason Apple can't either.
Don't get me wrong, I think the new specs are awesome. *I* personally won't buy for a while if the price is $1599. Thats just ME, one person. But, if the price was $1299-$1399, I *BET* you tons of people would buy them, including me.
I went to the Dell site and could not config a PC with all those wonderful iApps, Final cut, nor OSX.
Guess its since they spend Soooo much money on RD items such as cutting edge 64 bit OSes named after cats, they can't afford to build iApps...
On another note, i went to a BMW dealer and told the salesman WTF? If Ford can make Ford tempos for less money why can't you drop the price of your 325i?
geezus... I'm all for cheaper macs but most seem to forget all the goodies and the user experince that only comes with a mac.
You don't get all that much software, PM's don't even come with an office suite. Most computers in the PM's price range come with an office suite and a psuedo-iLife of some sort. Sure their iLife copies are miserable, but iLife itself is hardly that useful in the real world. There's a bit of a "software myth" in the RDF, there's somee very key stuff missing from Apple machines, and the main feature, iLife, while great, really is not that useful when you get down to it. Pros will use something better, and most consumers won't use it too much, you'd get much better value from a legitimate office suite than you do from iLife.
How many good home movies have you made? How many good DVD's?
PC's have got office and music covered. In the real world, they're a lot closer than mac heads pretend.
USer experience, yes, XP finds remarkable way to make you notice the UI, no matter how hard you try to ignore it sometimes it just gets bent on gettinng in your way, but file compatibility and fluid web site interoperability are bopth part of the user experience too, and PC's just school macs when it comes to that, even if it has more to do with certain underhanded M$ tactics than it does with the mac per se.
this is semi off topic, but are these machines going to use DDR333 PC 2700 or DDR400 PC 3200? i cant help but notice that prices for these two vary a good deal...
G4's currently come with a bunch of non-Apple apps like Snapz Pro, Graphic Converter, PixelNhance, and Art Director's Toolkit. Sure, it's not a free copy of Photoshop, but it's not like they're bare either. Frankly, most users Apple expects would use PowerMacs probably toss whatever comes with it in one folder, and then installs all the expensive software they purchased separately and really want to use anyway. I can't imagine buying a PowerMac and using its software as-is. The only big hole in this arrangment is the productivity app/suite. Why AppleWorks doesn't even ship with them is curious, though they do have that sillly Office demo.
Comments
Now we could use a price drop on the displays, a 1.6 Ghz system with a 17 inch LCD for under $2000 would make me a happy man indeed.
Now that's an interesting idea. What's more likely is that Apple would offer a rebate to bring the price under $2k.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Fair enough, Fred.
aaaarrrrgggghhhhhglargle......return of the puck and miniboard????
----------------------
Also, remember that any downward pressure on the Powermac increases the downward pressure on the iMac.....and I'm not of the impression that Apple is making a whole lot of margin on them to begin with.
1.6GHZ $1,499
1.8GHZ $1,899
DP 2GHZ $2,399
Originally posted by Jay Hipperd
These are the prices:
1.6GHZ $1,499
1.8GHZ $1,899
DP 2GHZ $2,399
You're joking. Right?
(and I mean that incredulously....
He wants a PowerMac at Low End iMac prices...
Originally posted by chu_bakka
How many people wanna bet the Matsu will be disappointed no matter what?
He wants a PowerMac at Low End iMac prices...
You mean he wants what computers actually cost in the Real World nowadays.
If the low end is $1299, I'll put an order in on Monday. If its $1599, I'll wait 9 months for a possible price drop and then decide if I even really need or want one. In 9 months, who knows what Opteron 64bit machines will be out there.
-M
Maybe they'll come out with a headless iMac box...
would that make you happy?
Does it take that long to save up your allowance?
Originally posted by chu_bakka
And who besides Dell and Apple is making a profit?
Don't kid yourself.
And BTW, according to The Register, Sun is releasing a 64bit workstation soon under $2k. So I would think Apple could release one for considerably less.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/31325.html
-M
PS> My opinions and thoughts are my own, not my employers, I have no internal info about anything, blah blah blah, you know the drill.
Originally posted by agent302
So then logically, Matsu, you'd accept a tradeoff of a 1299-1499 entry level in return for a 2999-3299 high end?
Yep, I would, these machines have to cover a lot of territory, from mid range to high end.
It is VERY VERY odd to speak of 1299-1499 towers as low end, in the rest of the market these would be high-end or upper mid range prices (for towers that come without displays). These are the market share building machines among a community that counts, PROS -- pros who will buy lotsa expensive software licenses, peripherals, service, they need a price on a PM class machine that can bring these people in, iMacs won't do it, they're boutique computers (especially in the minds of potential PM buyers).
It's gotta be a PM and as I've said, the bottom end spec doesn't have to be killer at all. Basic drive and RAM alotments will do, and a middling OK Gfx card, even something with just 32-64MB. The important thing is to get the cost of entry down and spurn some migration of the sorts of customers who will spend that ammount twice over in the years that follow in software, new machines, periphs, service etc etc... Pro customers can be very profitable, but you've got to think long term and get a bigger pool going. Pros will NOT switch to iMacs, and they will not overpay just for the privelege of "switching." There needs to be a hefty price incentive to go with all those other good things Apple provides.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
a difference of $300?
Does it take that long to save up your allowance?
It's all about principals. At $1299, I think Apple makes a smart movie and I *support* them by going out and buying the machine. At $1599, I think they're slightly greedy and might just watch from the sidelines unless there is something else that can put me over the edge.
And its not my allowance I'm worried about, its more like mortgage payments.
-M
This would be suicide but you never know with Apple.
none of that matters? It's all about the bottom line?
So why aren't you guys buying eMacs?
If the eMac gets a 970... will you buy it for $899?
Originally posted by chu_bakka
So all the software you get... the OS...
none of that matters? It's all about the bottom line?
So why aren't you guys buying eMacs?
If the eMac gets a 970... will you buy it for $899?
You act as if a person does not get an OS, software when buying another vendors machine.
eMacs will never be 64bit, they wont deal with 4gigs of RAM in 'em either. And before you ask, YES, I work with machines with 4Gigs+ of RAM. True, at home I only have 1Gig of RAM...
My point is, the price should be in ballpark range of everyone else. If a highend workstation companies like IBM/SGI/Sun releases 64bit workstations with 1Gig of RAM for decent prices, there is NO reason Apple can't either.
Don't get me wrong, I think the new specs are awesome. *I* personally won't buy for a while if the price is $1599. Thats just ME, one person. But, if the price was $1299-$1399, I *BET* you tons of people would buy them, including me.
-M
Guess its since they spend Soooo much money on RD items such as cutting edge 64 bit OSes named after cats, they can't afford to build iApps...
On another note, i went to a BMW dealer and told the salesman WTF? If Ford can make Ford tempos for less money why can't you drop the price of your 325i?
geezus... I'm all for cheaper macs but most seem to forget all the goodies and the user experince that only comes with a mac.
How many good home movies have you made? How many good DVD's?
PC's have got office and music covered. In the real world, they're a lot closer than mac heads pretend.
USer experience, yes, XP finds remarkable way to make you notice the UI, no matter how hard you try to ignore it sometimes it just gets bent on gettinng in your way, but file compatibility and fluid web site interoperability are bopth part of the user experience too, and PC's just school macs when it comes to that, even if it has more to do with certain underhanded M$ tactics than it does with the mac per se.