Not sure why people don't like the finder. If you look at it, it's the same as every other iApp. Look at iTunes, you have your playlists on the left, you highlight them and get a listing on the right, same as this finder shot. They're just making everything consistant.
The only difference is the finder has much larger icons than iTunes, et al. But it works just the same. Me thinks that this is how they'll introduce the "smart playlists" for the finder.
But the Finder shouldn't be like an iApp. Nor should it be like some overly complicated 'pro' application, it should just be an amazing Finder. Comparing the Finder to an iApp reminds me of wizards, and wizards remind me of Windows, and Windows reminds me of why I use a Mac.
There have been a couple of comments about the highlighting of files in the Finder. Am I the only one that thinks that the blue outline around the name of the file is actually an implementation of a finder color label? I mean, how else would they do it? The old color labels used to tint the icon; that doesn't seem like it would work too well with today's icons. Coloring the file name would seem to make more sense.
But the Finder shouldn't be like an iApp. Nor should it be like some overly complicated 'pro' application, it should just be an amazing Finder. Comparing the Finder to an iApp reminds me of wizards, and wizards remind me of Windows, and Windows reminds me of why I use a Mac.
The philosophy of iApps is *nothing* like a wizard, though. They don't hold your hand and guide you through a step-by-step process, with the user dutifully clicking next, next, next.
The iApp philosophy aims to present your data in a simple and clear single-window interface, with the capabilty to do live, powerful searches. All with an absolute minimum of hand-holding and linear instruction.
iTunes is an iApp, and it's *not* dumbed-down in any way. It's a great application.
There are aspects to iApps that more consumer-oriented (e.g. "Make a Book" section of iPhoto), and those don't have much application to the Finder. But everything about the iApps that relate to navigation and finding your data *do*.
But the Finder shouldn't be like an iApp. Nor should it be like some overly complicated 'pro' application, it should just be an amazing Finder. Comparing the Finder to an iApp reminds me of wizards, and wizards remind me of Windows, and Windows reminds me of why I use a Mac.
I can see how could think it looks "windows-ish", but when I first looked at it, I thought it looked familiar. About 2 seconds later I realized it was the basic iApp interface.
Personally I'm happy with that. I absoutely love the iTunes interface and think it's much easier to find music with it than files in the current finder. The fact that their possibly switching to this makes me pretty happy, and I already know how to use it!
Of course that's just my opinion on it, I'm sure others have thier reasons for not liking the change.
Comparing the Finder to an iApp reminds me of wizards, and wizards remind me of Windows, and Windows reminds me of why I use a Mac.
Well that logic is way off. The digital hub applications remind you of window wizards? Good thing you're not a philosopher.
I like the new finder, and I'm sure that if this next version is anything like some of the new applications that are out (Compressor, LiveType, Composer), that it is ultra smooth and very sharp. No doubt rebuilt from the ground up, and somewhat customizable.
Because they are realising, over time, that what they imposed with X was a pile of crap. And we're the beta testers.
These kinds of knee-jerk comments are just too obliquely stupid to respond to.
Quote:
Originally posted by knee
What I don't understand is why Apple seems to be consistently screwing around with the UI of the operating system.
Toning down pinstipes, toning down transparency around the OS, and offering a choice for brushed-metal interface is screwing around? They're responding to users, seems to me. Making Aqua a bit more quiet, and subtle. Less visual noise, and more choice.
Exposé, meanwhile, aims to solve a serious problem -- a mess of hidden or obscured windows, either in a single app, or from apps across the system, that need to navigated in a hurry. I just wonder what the Exposé animation will be.
The new Finder *does* look like a serious change, but if the Panther introduces a seriously updated filesystem (as strongly rumored), NOT to provide an updated interface for this would be utterly inappropriate. That's what an interface is supposed to -- stand between functionality and the user. New functionality very often requires change.
It's not that it looks Window-ish that bugs me, it's the idea of making the Finder only the bare bones basic app that scares me. I could care less about GUI changes (I can change that) and layout (well I care a lot actually, but that's not the point). It's the file manager, not an iApp. Integrating it with iApps sounds fine (I guess it could be done...), using ideas from iApps would be great (imagine the search filter from iTunes being in your toolbar, folder of 137 items narrowed down to what you want by typing a few letters). One of the pictures showed something about 'folder actions', which makes me think of something like a smart playlist, or the ever so useless (but neat) Piles, but making it worthwhile. I guess you misunderstood my post, I was not saying that making the Finder easier to use would be bad, nor was I saying iApps are dumbed down.
I think this looks like a solid advance for the finder. Bringing UI consistency with iTunes, iPhoto, Safari etc is a good idea- the point of the side window in all these apps is managing data/files- it would seem like a great idea to bring this method to the finder too.
Except that the left panels in the supposed Finder (I'm reserving judgement until Monday) are on the top, your list of mounted drives (equivalent to 'Computer'), and on the bottom, a list of aliases... you'll notice that the toolbar has been removed from the window. That's where it went.
No playlists, etc... a static list up top, and a list of aliases down below. Hurm. Not sure if I like or not.
It's not that it looks Window-ish that bugs me, it's the idea of making the Finder only the bare bones basic app that scares me. I could care less about GUI changes (I can change that) and layout (well I care a lot actually, but that's not the point). It's the file manager, not an iApp. Integrating it with iApps sounds fine (I guess it could be done...), using ideas from iApps would be great (imagine the search filter from iTunes being in your toolbar, folder of 137 items narrowed down to what you want by typing a few letters). One of the pictures showed something about 'folder actions', which makes me think of something like a smart playlist, or the ever so useless (but neat) Piles, but making it worthwhile. I guess you misunderstood my post, I was not saying that making the Finder easier to use would be bad, nor was I saying iApps are dumbed down.
I hear you. You said "the Finder shouldn't be like an iApp", but we're saying that there are some aspects of iApps that the Finder *should* be like -- as well others it shouldn't. iApps are really interesting, and for most part, really good -- it's because they're so tightly focused on what tasks they perform. The Finder should be just as tightly focused on finding and performing actions on files. Some of the iApp philosophy can help out in this.
So your example re iTunes is great, but it can go even farther.
For example -- if Panther is all it should be - imagine typing in a few letters in the Finder search field, and instantly seeing any file with those letters on your hard drive. Apply to how iTunes works with your music to all your files.
i am thinking these are probably fake, but making the finder to be organized like an iApp is not what i want...honestly IF they are real, UNLESS apple can give me an incentive for using that type instead of the way its setup now i can see myself possibly switchign to linux, and i am serious
i dont mean taht to a threat to apple and i'm sure nobody cares, i'm just saying unless its nothing like i am thinking it might bother me enough that i couldn't use it
haha or at least try to find a hack to run the old finder
I hear you. You said "the Finder shouldn't be like an iApp", but we're saying that there are some aspects of iApps that the Finder *should* be like -- as well others it shouldn't. iApps are really interesting, and for most part, really good -- it's because they're so tightly focused on what tasks they perform. The Finder should be just as tightly focused on finding and performing actions on files. Some of the iApp philosophy can help out in this.
So your example re iTunes is great, but it can go even farther.
For example -- if Panther is all it should be - imagine typing in a few letters in the Finder search field, and instantly seeing any file with those letters on your hard drive. Apply to how iTunes works with your music to all your files.
so what do you dont if you dont know what the file is called? i thinkthe current finder is great (besides needing a rewrite to make it faster)
You could always get PathFinder or any number of file managers. I was talking about leaving the regular search in, but also putting a filter in the toolbar like in iTunes so if I'm looking for My big bad file.rtf, I can open the folder it's in, containing like 300 items, type in My b and have it narrowed down to less than a handful or results instantly.
Just some comments (provided the pictures are not fake):
In general the Macintosh GUI is really starting to look more and more like Windows.
Finder = Explorer
Dock = Task Bar
Safari tied to Mac OS = Internet Explorer tied to Windows
Apple Menu = Start Menu
This a bit disturbing. The Macintosh GUI was always the hallmark of the Mac OS. I wonder if this is Apple's attempt to lure more Windows users to the Mac by making similiar GUI?
I don't like the this Finder at all. Where are the additional Finder commands located? In the menu bar? If so, that is a horrible interface decision in my opinion. Hopefully, the Finder app that is pictured is the new simple Finder app or something.
Video capabilities of iChat look neat, however, how really useful will this be for people (yeah, I want to see the people I chat with)? Does other chat applications (i.e., MSN, Yahoo, AOL, etc.) offer this functionality as well? Or will video chatting be a Mac to Mac function. Seems to be a cool technology with limited applicability.
More and more the 10.3 upgrade is looking like the Classic 9.0 upgrade. An upgrade without real merit. Moving around control panels, changing GUI interface, and adding widgets to existing applications is a great way to give the impression that some major enhancements were made. But we will see soon enough.
I am amazed that just because some anonymous guy or gal posted some incomplete and unauthenticaed picutures of what is supposed to be 10.3 to a bulletin board, that so many people here have taken them as the gospel truth. What happened to the tradition of healthy scepticism that was present on this board only a few days ago?
Um, you guys all see that the finder window still has the Icon/List/Column view buttons in the toolbar, right? So, with the exception of brushed metal and moving your "favorite places" icons from the toolbar down to a clearly hideable pane at the left (notice the dot on the separator column), you should be able to interact with it any way you want to. It just seems like people are freaking out about massive changes to the interface that really aren't that massive.
The search window does look more like the one in iTunes, Safari, etc, so hopefully it will provide similar in-window searching. However, the current Finder has a search field for the toolbar, too, which does essentially the same thing - provides a list of files meeting your criteria within the selected folder or volume. Advanced searches are available with cmd-F.
In a nutshell, I'd expect Classic fans to be able to use "messy" folder/window navigation, column fans to be able to navigate left-to-right, and Windows Explorer fans to be able to navigate list view kind of like that. All in a faster, more threaded Cocoa version of the Finder.
Comments
Originally posted by vitaflo
Not sure why people don't like the finder. If you look at it, it's the same as every other iApp. Look at iTunes, you have your playlists on the left, you highlight them and get a listing on the right, same as this finder shot. They're just making everything consistant.
The only difference is the finder has much larger icons than iTunes, et al. But it works just the same. Me thinks that this is how they'll introduce the "smart playlists" for the finder.
But the Finder shouldn't be like an iApp. Nor should it be like some overly complicated 'pro' application, it should just be an amazing Finder. Comparing the Finder to an iApp reminds me of wizards, and wizards remind me of Windows, and Windows reminds me of why I use a Mac.
Probably the 'source pane' idea (which I still think is patently false) would only appear in non-column view modes.
Originally posted by knee
What I don't understand is why Apple seems to be consistently screwing around with the UI of the operating system.
Because they are realising, over time, that what they imposed with X was a pile of crap. And we're the beta testers.
Originally posted by iBrowse
But the Finder shouldn't be like an iApp. Nor should it be like some overly complicated 'pro' application, it should just be an amazing Finder. Comparing the Finder to an iApp reminds me of wizards, and wizards remind me of Windows, and Windows reminds me of why I use a Mac.
The philosophy of iApps is *nothing* like a wizard, though. They don't hold your hand and guide you through a step-by-step process, with the user dutifully clicking next, next, next.
The iApp philosophy aims to present your data in a simple and clear single-window interface, with the capabilty to do live, powerful searches. All with an absolute minimum of hand-holding and linear instruction.
iTunes is an iApp, and it's *not* dumbed-down in any way. It's a great application.
There are aspects to iApps that more consumer-oriented (e.g. "Make a Book" section of iPhoto), and those don't have much application to the Finder. But everything about the iApps that relate to navigation and finding your data *do*.
Originally posted by iBrowse
But the Finder shouldn't be like an iApp. Nor should it be like some overly complicated 'pro' application, it should just be an amazing Finder. Comparing the Finder to an iApp reminds me of wizards, and wizards remind me of Windows, and Windows reminds me of why I use a Mac.
I can see how could think it looks "windows-ish", but when I first looked at it, I thought it looked familiar. About 2 seconds later I realized it was the basic iApp interface.
Personally I'm happy with that. I absoutely love the iTunes interface and think it's much easier to find music with it than files in the current finder. The fact that their possibly switching to this makes me pretty happy, and I already know how to use it!
Of course that's just my opinion on it, I'm sure others have thier reasons for not liking the change.
Originally posted by iBrowse
Comparing the Finder to an iApp reminds me of wizards, and wizards remind me of Windows, and Windows reminds me of why I use a Mac.
Well that logic is way off. The digital hub applications remind you of window wizards? Good thing you're not a philosopher.
I like the new finder, and I'm sure that if this next version is anything like some of the new applications that are out (Compressor, LiveType, Composer), that it is ultra smooth and very sharp. No doubt rebuilt from the ground up, and somewhat customizable.
Originally posted by Clive
Because they are realising, over time, that what they imposed with X was a pile of crap. And we're the beta testers.
These kinds of knee-jerk comments are just too obliquely stupid to respond to.
Originally posted by knee
What I don't understand is why Apple seems to be consistently screwing around with the UI of the operating system.
Toning down pinstipes, toning down transparency around the OS, and offering a choice for brushed-metal interface is screwing around? They're responding to users, seems to me. Making Aqua a bit more quiet, and subtle. Less visual noise, and more choice.
Exposé, meanwhile, aims to solve a serious problem -- a mess of hidden or obscured windows, either in a single app, or from apps across the system, that need to navigated in a hurry. I just wonder what the Exposé animation will be.
The new Finder *does* look like a serious change, but if the Panther introduces a seriously updated filesystem (as strongly rumored), NOT to provide an updated interface for this would be utterly inappropriate. That's what an interface is supposed to -- stand between functionality and the user. New functionality very often requires change.
Originally posted by mugwump
Well that logic is way off. The digital hub applications remind you of window wizards? Good thing you're not a philosopher.
And that is definately not what I said.
No playlists, etc... a static list up top, and a list of aliases down below. Hurm. Not sure if I like or not.
Originally posted by iBrowse
It's not that it looks Window-ish that bugs me, it's the idea of making the Finder only the bare bones basic app that scares me. I could care less about GUI changes (I can change that) and layout (well I care a lot actually, but that's not the point). It's the file manager, not an iApp. Integrating it with iApps sounds fine (I guess it could be done...), using ideas from iApps would be great (imagine the search filter from iTunes being in your toolbar, folder of 137 items narrowed down to what you want by typing a few letters). One of the pictures showed something about 'folder actions', which makes me think of something like a smart playlist, or the ever so useless (but neat) Piles, but making it worthwhile. I guess you misunderstood my post, I was not saying that making the Finder easier to use would be bad, nor was I saying iApps are dumbed down.
I hear you. You said "the Finder shouldn't be like an iApp", but we're saying that there are some aspects of iApps that the Finder *should* be like -- as well others it shouldn't. iApps are really interesting, and for most part, really good -- it's because they're so tightly focused on what tasks they perform. The Finder should be just as tightly focused on finding and performing actions on files. Some of the iApp philosophy can help out in this.
So your example re iTunes is great, but it can go even farther.
For example -- if Panther is all it should be - imagine typing in a few letters in the Finder search field, and instantly seeing any file with those letters on your hard drive. Apply to how iTunes works with your music to all your files.
i dont mean taht to a threat to apple and i'm sure nobody cares, i'm just saying unless its nothing like i am thinking it might bother me enough that i couldn't use it
haha or at least try to find a hack to run the old finder
Originally posted by Hobbes
I hear you. You said "the Finder shouldn't be like an iApp", but we're saying that there are some aspects of iApps that the Finder *should* be like -- as well others it shouldn't. iApps are really interesting, and for most part, really good -- it's because they're so tightly focused on what tasks they perform. The Finder should be just as tightly focused on finding and performing actions on files. Some of the iApp philosophy can help out in this.
So your example re iTunes is great, but it can go even farther.
For example -- if Panther is all it should be - imagine typing in a few letters in the Finder search field, and instantly seeing any file with those letters on your hard drive. Apply to how iTunes works with your music to all your files.
so what do you dont if you dont know what the file is called? i thinkthe current finder is great (besides needing a rewrite to make it faster)
In general the Macintosh GUI is really starting to look more and more like Windows.
Finder = Explorer
Dock = Task Bar
Safari tied to Mac OS = Internet Explorer tied to Windows
Apple Menu = Start Menu
This a bit disturbing. The Macintosh GUI was always the hallmark of the Mac OS. I wonder if this is Apple's attempt to lure more Windows users to the Mac by making similiar GUI?
I don't like the this Finder at all. Where are the additional Finder commands located? In the menu bar? If so, that is a horrible interface decision in my opinion. Hopefully, the Finder app that is pictured is the new simple Finder app or something.
Video capabilities of iChat look neat, however, how really useful will this be for people (yeah, I want to see the people I chat with)? Does other chat applications (i.e., MSN, Yahoo, AOL, etc.) offer this functionality as well? Or will video chatting be a Mac to Mac function. Seems to be a cool technology with limited applicability.
More and more the 10.3 upgrade is looking like the Classic 9.0 upgrade. An upgrade without real merit. Moving around control panels, changing GUI interface, and adding widgets to existing applications is a great way to give the impression that some major enhancements were made. But we will see soon enough.
The search window does look more like the one in iTunes, Safari, etc, so hopefully it will provide similar in-window searching. However, the current Finder has a search field for the toolbar, too, which does essentially the same thing - provides a list of files meeting your criteria within the selected folder or volume. Advanced searches are available with cmd-F.
In a nutshell, I'd expect Classic fans to be able to use "messy" folder/window navigation, column fans to be able to navigate left-to-right, and Windows Explorer fans to be able to navigate list view kind of like that. All in a faster, more threaded Cocoa version of the Finder.