Is today tomorrow? I don't see new PBs. Kinda surprised actually, considering the gap between the G5 and everything else, I imagine there will be a storm of updates soon.
I guess I tend to agree with others in that a G5 PowerBook released soon would rip sales from Power Mac G5s. Perhaps later in the Summer/early Fall would be best/soonest possible. Of course, selling XX number of machines is the important thing here; whether or not they are Power Macs or PowerBooks only matters to Apple with their percentage markups. Anyone have any idea what Apple's markup is on a Power Mac (G4) versus the PowerBook G4?
Thinking back to the MPF in Oct 2002, IBM did state the following numbers for the PowerPC 970:
Typical Power Dissipation:
42W @ 1.8 GHz, 1.3v
19W @ 1.2 GHz, 1.1v
This makes me think about some chip guru questions I've had.
From figures I've seen, power dissipation for CPUs seems to be linearly proportional (roughly at least) to clock frequency when voltage remains a constant. Is this generally true?
I'm also getting the impression that power dissipation is proportional to the square of the core voltage (not surprising, given P = V^2 / R). True?
Now, what is it that leads to the decision of which voltage to use for a particular application? I'm sure that some voltages simply don't work -- too low or too high -- but within the acceptable voltage range, what drives the choice to use something other than the lowest voltage possible? Does the lowest possible voltage increase with clock speed?
Now, what is it that leads to the decision of which voltage to use for a particular application? I'm sure that some voltages simply don't work -- too low or too high -- but within the acceptable voltage range, what drives the choice to use something other than the lowest voltage possible? Does the lowest possible voltage increase with clock speed?
And recalling also that the chipset voltages were constant at 1.3v, I wonder if this is merely a voltage stepping chip (the one at 1.2GHz). I know Power Management is getting a workover for Panther, but I wonder if this is a reason why? Voltage stepdown (and thus heat) when in low power mode.
Actually, the clock frequency vs. power consumption curve is not linear - it follows a log curve. And even though the initial specs for the 970 looked promising ( as posted above: 1.8 GHz = 42 Watts // 1.2 GHz = 19 Watts ), these specs were from a prerelease ( on 10/15/2002 ) marketing document.
The EETimes has reported that the 2 GHz 970 uses 97 Watts which would move the whole clock frequency vs. power consumption curve much higher. I've done some back of the envelope calculations and they show that the 970 at 1-1.2 GHz in it's present form will probably use around 30-40 Watts.
That is alot for a laptop - probably more that Apple would want for the PB series. So it might be some time before we see the 970 in a laptop - prob. not until the .9 um process chip.
Again, these numbers are back of the envelope and are not measured. We probably will not see real numbers released until someone gets a G5 and actually measures a real unit.
I mean there IS a reason for 9 fans in the G5 tower!
Not to pick on you in particular, Powerdoc, but I keep seeing people do this: The new process will be 90 nm, which is 0.9 µm -- definitely not 0.9 nm.
Definitely not 0.9nm (not yet!) but 90nm is actually 0.09µm.
I'm also getting the impression that power dissipation is proportional to the square of the core voltage (not surprising, given P = V^2 / R). True?
Yes but active devices (transistors) don't have simple values for R.
Quote:
Now, what is it that leads to the decision of which voltage to use for a particular application? I'm sure that some voltages simply don't work -- too low or too high -- but within the acceptable voltage range, what drives the choice to use something other than the lowest voltage possible? Does the lowest possible voltage increase with clock speed?
Another complex issue. A given device will run faster with higher voltages but higher speed, lower power, smaller devices can be designed if lower voltages are used. The last is perhaps most important. When transistor gets become very thin they cannot support higher voltages and will fail.
What's kinda surprising to me is the outright LACK of any info whatsoever. There's not been a single reliable leak regarding a) the specs b) the availability or c) pricing.
A couple of websites have simply posted chatter and "I heard it from a guy..." kind of stuff, but there's really nothing concrete.
Does it even exist, this mythical new 15" PowerBook?
I mean, we're strictly going on assumptions here, looking at the 12" and 17" and assuming - logically, I'd suppose - that a new 15" will share their skin, hinge design, motherboard, keyboard, AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, etc.
Said it before and I'll say it again: never has one product been so strongly desired and waited for! I think there are a good 10-15 people here waiting to get one (yours truly included) and I know 3 people in "real life" who are waiting - VISA card in hand - for them to be announced.
Crap-fire, Apple...let's GO! Get a move on it...you're sitting on about half-a-gazillion dollars in sales. Dang, just get us a preview or "sneak peak", even.
Since this thread title is so vague I might as well post this again. And every day until the new PB comes out.
Seriously though, macmall.com currently has between 600 to 800 PBs in stock for each type. So unless Apple plans to screw retailers new PBs won't be released any time soon. (Probably at the creative expo or later in August).
People aren't going to buy them because they know something improved is coming!
How's THAT for a pickle to be in? Is there some sort of Titanium Recycling Program where these things can be dumped? Or spray paint them white and give them to some schoolkids and say "it's a bigger iBook...now do your homework!"
How's THAT for a pickle to be in? Is there some sort of Titanium Recycling Program where these things can be dumped? Or spray paint them white and give them to some schoolkids and say "it's a bigger iBook...now do your homework!"
Man my high school days we had Apple IIe's to work on. I'd love it if someone handed me a "recycled" PowerBook.
As far as the macmall.com issue, that's there tough sh!t. They bought em from Apple, and even though, I believe, they can recoupe money from Apple if they don't sell be sending so many back, it is no where near full credit.
So Apple ain't too concerned about others selling their product. If THEIR stores are empty, that's pretty much all that concerns them.
Speaking of vulgar, where are those *ahem* photos?
I don't have anywhere to host the pics. Seriously. Since my .mac account was shut down by Apple I don't have any server space to post the pics at.
Meh, there isn't much to see. I could only just barely give the tip a few cursory licks before stopping for fear of breaking something important. On the jpegs you can't see much because I had to set up the camera for a delayed shot--after all, who the hell am I gonna get to take photos of me ravishing my own body like that?. Then of course I had to blur the photos a bit so I wouldn't get sent to jail for them, and of course to mask my identity. Can't you just see it: Photos capture Dubya sucking own d!ck as Frat Boy!!! Well I'm not going to run for president, but you get the idea.
What's kinda surprising to me is the outright LACK of any info whatsoever. There's not been a single reliable leak regarding a) the specs b) the availability or c) pricing.
A couple of websites have simply posted chatter and "I heard it from a guy..." kind of stuff, but there's really nothing concrete.
Does it even exist, this mythical new 15" PowerBook?
I mean, we're strictly going on assumptions here, looking at the 12" and 17" and assuming - logically, I'd suppose - that a new 15" will share their skin, hinge design, motherboard, keyboard, AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, etc.
Said it before and I'll say it again: never has one product been so strongly desired and waited for! I think there are a good 10-15 people here waiting to get one (yours truly included) and I know 3 people in "real life" who are waiting - VISA card in hand - for them to be announced.
Crap-fire, Apple...let's GO! Get a move on it...you're sitting on about half-a-gazillion dollars in sales. Dang, just get us a preview or "sneak peak", even.
SOMETHING.
I know. It is frustrating as hell. The only two solid pieces of public information I've seen pointing to a new PB are:
1. A few places noted that some Taiwan trades paper had a short article asserting that some company (Compal?) had the contract to make new 15.4" PBs for Apple. They would start shipping in the second half of this year. As the current screen is 15.2" this solidly points to a new PB.
2. Not as good as the first bit of information. The Register noted that some company (don't recall the name) has started shipping samples of embedded boards with the new 7457 G4 indicating that it is just about available.
Finally, if you price a 1GHz G4 PB 15" at the Apple on line Store the availability is 7-10 days. It has been 7-10 days for a few days now so I'm not sure what that means.
Who is really going to buy a new 15in if they come out say..within the next month?
Me. I have two people interested in buying my 667 and I want to unload it before they buy elsewhere. But if the specs of the new 15 aren't compelling, I might just get a 1GHz Ti on closeout. $2,299 or so would be a pretty sweet price for that machine.
Comments
Originally posted by Aquatic
Is today tomorrow? I don't see new PBs. Kinda surprised actually, considering the gap between the G5 and everything else, I imagine there will be a storm of updates soon.
I guess I tend to agree with others in that a G5 PowerBook released soon would rip sales from Power Mac G5s. Perhaps later in the Summer/early Fall would be best/soonest possible. Of course, selling XX number of machines is the important thing here; whether or not they are Power Macs or PowerBooks only matters to Apple with their percentage markups. Anyone have any idea what Apple's markup is on a Power Mac (G4) versus the PowerBook G4?
Typical Power Dissipation:
42W @ 1.8 GHz, 1.3v
19W @ 1.2 GHz, 1.1v
So why do you think they included a 1.2GHz, low voltage and wattage measurement? It screams of PowerBook use!
Originally posted by Rhumgod
Thinking back to the MPF in Oct 2002, IBM did state the following numbers for the PowerPC 970:
Typical Power Dissipation:
42W @ 1.8 GHz, 1.3v
19W @ 1.2 GHz, 1.1v
This makes me think about some chip guru questions I've had.
From figures I've seen, power dissipation for CPUs seems to be linearly proportional (roughly at least) to clock frequency when voltage remains a constant. Is this generally true?
I'm also getting the impression that power dissipation is proportional to the square of the core voltage (not surprising, given P = V^2 / R). True?
Now, what is it that leads to the decision of which voltage to use for a particular application? I'm sure that some voltages simply don't work -- too low or too high -- but within the acceptable voltage range, what drives the choice to use something other than the lowest voltage possible? Does the lowest possible voltage increase with clock speed?
Originally posted by shetline
Now, what is it that leads to the decision of which voltage to use for a particular application? I'm sure that some voltages simply don't work -- too low or too high -- but within the acceptable voltage range, what drives the choice to use something other than the lowest voltage possible? Does the lowest possible voltage increase with clock speed?
And recalling also that the chipset voltages were constant at 1.3v, I wonder if this is merely a voltage stepping chip (the one at 1.2GHz). I know Power Management is getting a workover for Panther, but I wonder if this is a reason why? Voltage stepdown (and thus heat) when in low power mode.
The EETimes has reported that the 2 GHz 970 uses 97 Watts which would move the whole clock frequency vs. power consumption curve much higher. I've done some back of the envelope calculations and they show that the 970 at 1-1.2 GHz in it's present form will probably use around 30-40 Watts.
That is alot for a laptop - probably more that Apple would want for the PB series. So it might be some time before we see the 970 in a laptop - prob. not until the .9 um process chip.
Again, these numbers are back of the envelope and are not measured. We probably will not see real numbers released until someone gets a G5 and actually measures a real unit.
I mean there IS a reason for 9 fans in the G5 tower!
Originally posted by shetline
Not to pick on you in particular, Powerdoc, but I keep seeing people do this: The new process will be 90 nm, which is 0.9 µm -- definitely not 0.9 nm.
Definitely not 0.9nm (not yet!) but 90nm is actually 0.09µm.
1.) Several reports of current orders delayed - until around 7/7 or 7/8
2.) Shipping status for GHz PowerBook SuperDrive model is 7-10 days at Apple online store
3.) 15-inch Titantiums are nearing 8 months without an upgrade; 12- and 17-inch models are just about 6 months old
4.) Digitimes reported new 15.4 inch PowerBook will go into production in 2nd half of 2003; we're now in 2nd half of 2003
5.) 15-inch lack faster mobo, Airport Extreme and Built in bluetooth other models possess
6.) Motorola 7457 may be available earlier than expected and may be used in the new PB models
Originally posted by shetline
I'm also getting the impression that power dissipation is proportional to the square of the core voltage (not surprising, given P = V^2 / R). True?
Yes but active devices (transistors) don't have simple values for R.
Now, what is it that leads to the decision of which voltage to use for a particular application? I'm sure that some voltages simply don't work -- too low or too high -- but within the acceptable voltage range, what drives the choice to use something other than the lowest voltage possible? Does the lowest possible voltage increase with clock speed?
Another complex issue. A given device will run faster with higher voltages but higher speed, lower power, smaller devices can be designed if lower voltages are used. The last is perhaps most important. When transistor gets become very thin they cannot support higher voltages and will fail.
A couple of websites have simply posted chatter and "I heard it from a guy..." kind of stuff, but there's really nothing concrete.
Does it even exist, this mythical new 15" PowerBook?
I mean, we're strictly going on assumptions here, looking at the 12" and 17" and assuming - logically, I'd suppose - that a new 15" will share their skin, hinge design, motherboard, keyboard, AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, etc.
Said it before and I'll say it again: never has one product been so strongly desired and waited for! I think there are a good 10-15 people here waiting to get one (yours truly included) and I know 3 people in "real life" who are waiting - VISA card in hand - for them to be announced.
Crap-fire, Apple...let's GO! Get a move on it...you're sitting on about half-a-gazillion dollars in sales. Dang, just get us a preview or "sneak peak", even.
SOMETHING.
Originally posted by jante99
WRONG!
Since this thread title is so vague I might as well post this again. And every day until the new PB comes out.
Seriously though, macmall.com currently has between 600 to 800 PBs in stock for each type. So unless Apple plans to screw retailers new PBs won't be released any time soon. (Probably at the creative expo or later in August).
How's THAT for a pickle to be in? Is there some sort of Titanium Recycling Program where these things can be dumped? Or spray paint them white and give them to some schoolkids and say "it's a bigger iBook...now do your homework!"
Originally posted by pscates
How's THAT for a pickle to be in? Is there some sort of Titanium Recycling Program where these things can be dumped? Or spray paint them white and give them to some schoolkids and say "it's a bigger iBook...now do your homework!"
Man my high school days we had Apple IIe's to work on. I'd love it if someone handed me a "recycled" PowerBook.
As far as the macmall.com issue, that's there tough sh!t. They bought em from Apple, and even though, I believe, they can recoupe money from Apple if they don't sell be sending so many back, it is no where near full credit.
So Apple ain't too concerned about others selling their product. If THEIR stores are empty, that's pretty much all that concerns them.
Originally posted by KidRed
Speaking of vulgar, where are those *ahem* photos?
I don't have anywhere to host the pics. Seriously. Since my .mac account was shut down by Apple I don't have any server space to post the pics at.
Meh, there isn't much to see. I could only just barely give the tip a few cursory licks before stopping for fear of breaking something important. On the jpegs you can't see much because I had to set up the camera for a delayed shot--after all, who the hell am I gonna get to take photos of me ravishing my own body like that?. Then of course I had to blur the photos a bit so I wouldn't get sent to jail for them, and of course to mask my identity. Can't you just see it: Photos capture Dubya sucking own d!ck as Frat Boy!!! Well I'm not going to run for president, but you get the idea.
Originally posted by pscates
What's kinda surprising to me is the outright LACK of any info whatsoever. There's not been a single reliable leak regarding a) the specs b) the availability or c) pricing.
A couple of websites have simply posted chatter and "I heard it from a guy..." kind of stuff, but there's really nothing concrete.
Does it even exist, this mythical new 15" PowerBook?
I mean, we're strictly going on assumptions here, looking at the 12" and 17" and assuming - logically, I'd suppose - that a new 15" will share their skin, hinge design, motherboard, keyboard, AirPort Extreme, Bluetooth, etc.
Said it before and I'll say it again: never has one product been so strongly desired and waited for! I think there are a good 10-15 people here waiting to get one (yours truly included) and I know 3 people in "real life" who are waiting - VISA card in hand - for them to be announced.
Crap-fire, Apple...let's GO! Get a move on it...you're sitting on about half-a-gazillion dollars in sales. Dang, just get us a preview or "sneak peak", even.
SOMETHING.
I know. It is frustrating as hell. The only two solid pieces of public information I've seen pointing to a new PB are:
1. A few places noted that some Taiwan trades paper had a short article asserting that some company (Compal?) had the contract to make new 15.4" PBs for Apple. They would start shipping in the second half of this year. As the current screen is 15.2" this solidly points to a new PB.
2. Not as good as the first bit of information. The Register noted that some company (don't recall the name) has started shipping samples of embedded boards with the new 7457 G4 indicating that it is just about available.
Finally, if you price a 1GHz G4 PB 15" at the Apple on line Store the availability is 7-10 days. It has been 7-10 days for a few days now so I'm not sure what that means.
Not much to go on.
Who is really going to buy a new 15in if they come out say..within the next month?
I am for sure. I need one for school. And I cant verywell take my G3 lombard.
Originally posted by NEMESIS
Alright, Speak Up !
Who is really going to buy a new 15in if they come out say..within the next month?
If the new 15.4"ers come out within a month, I have 3 grand waiting. If not I will get a Dell Inspiron 600m (Centrino).
Personally, I think that I will be ordering a Powerbook G4 15.4" in 11 days. I really feel that they will be released during Macworld CreativePro.
Originally posted by chazmox:
The EETimes has reported that the 2 GHz 970 uses 97 Watts
Could they mean 2 CPUs, that is, 2 x 48W? At least, that's what I thought remembering IBM's estimate of 42W @ 1.8 GHz. Does anybody know for sure?
Originally posted by NEMESIS
Who is really going to buy a new 15in if they come out say..within the next month?
Me. I have two people interested in buying my 667 and I want to unload it before they buy elsewhere. But if the specs of the new 15 aren't compelling, I might just get a 1GHz Ti on closeout. $2,299 or so would be a pretty sweet price for that machine.