thats a mind**** right there..... the home folder is in the desktop and the desktop is within the home folder along with the hard drive which both are in.
For an instance of the direct manipulation gone haywire, see IBM's UI experiments from 90-95 or so... they had this huge push to make everything *as close to real life objects as possible*... and it was a massive failure.
[snip]
Calls for 'real world' style direct manipulation are ultimately going to have to give way as what we produce on the computer bypasses what we're limited to in the physical world.
I feel compelled to pimp my mirror of the now-defunct Isys Information Architects' "Interface Hall of Shame". It covers the awful QuickTime 4 Player interface as well as two of IBM's projects: RealPhone and RealCD. Be sure to check the "In-Depth" section.
thats a mind**** right there..... the home folder is in the desktop and the desktop is within the home folder along with the hard drive which both are in.
It's all, an interpution in the space time continuum!
Quote:
Originally posted by Paul
dude! how did you do that?! screw panther!
Heh. Looks like I may have to write that up...there's an article on the site of the guy who wrote Carbon Copy Cloner, but I don't like the way he does it. Too much stuff in the terminal and he doesn't point out some of the problems of just following his way (like, say, your keychain stops working.)
I know Brad will raise the obligatory hell, but my method involves logging in as root. To me, its okay as long as you can avoid opening Finder windows and such while logged in as root, so do the next best thing and shove your hard drives in the Dock and right click. When the apps are open, for the ones you want to stay in the dock just right click them and choose "Keep in Dock." Simple, no Finder needed.
I assume you have mounted the home folder as a volume... the question is, how?
No I changed my home folder to a volume...you cannot mount folders.
As requested, here is the walk-through to moving your home folder:
_____________________
Moving a User's Home Folder, mostly via GUI
WARNING: When you are messing around with NetInfo Manager whilst logged in as root, you are just begging to do something nasty and irrevocable. Backup.
Once again. Backup, backup, then backup your backups. Why? Because you're moving all of your stuff around, your entire home folder, your work, your life, and there's a good chance that somewhere along the line something is going to get hosed. Also, be prepared to remove all of your handy little .DS_Store files that keep track of how your icons and such are organized if you chose the method of using the Finder, because there's a good chance that while logging in as root that they will become owned by the root. And when they're owned by the root, your user won't be able to change them.
First of all, if you want to stick to the GUI, you're going to need Cocktail. As one of its many nifty and free features, Cocktail has the ability to make symbolic links, without using a command line. These are the aliases of UNIX, and not totally unlike what you get by hitting cmd+L in the Finder. Mac OS aliases and symbolic links appear the same in the Finder, yet they are not. Mac OS aliases just aren't good enough for what we need to do.
To log in as root, you need to (of course) enable the root user. If you have already done so, then skip this paragraph. In your administrator account, open NetInfo Manager (it's in /Applications/Utilities/) Unless you are interested in reinstalling Mac OS X, don't mess around with anything you don't know about. It can only lead to trouble. Click on the Security menu and select the Authenticate... menu item. Type in your user's password, and press return or click OK. You will notice that some things that were disabled are now enabled, don't be tempted to play with them. Once again with the Security menu, select the Enable Root User... menu item. Give your root user a password, preferably one your friends don't know about, confirm it and then click OK or press return. Congratulations, you are now the all-powerful totalitarian dictator of your machine. Or the compassionate, self-elected yet pro-democracy president/prime minister. Whatever tickles your fancy.
Now it's time to copy your files, since they aren't going to move on their own. Time to pick a location: Do you want it on a separate volume? Do multiple people use your machine, and if so, do their home folders need to be moved as well? In my case, I am the only user on my machine, so I elected to move only my main user. I have a big volume going to waste (as on my machine, the system must be within the first 8GB of the drive, and its partition) so I decided to make a whole volume my new home folder. Now, there are inherent dangers in this. You can unmount your home directory, potentially causing a mild disaster. I haven't yet tried, so I don't know what happens. Probably something bad. Also, if you are on a multiuser setup, other users can click the little "Ignore Permissions on this Volume" checkbox in the Finder's Get Info. This means that none of your files are really secure, no matter how stringent you are with permissions. I chose to accept the danger.
So create a folder for your user, and copy everything in your home folder to it. There will probably be some files in your library that you can't read, oh well. You wanted to move your directory, that's just the way it is. Doing this as root is probably a bad idea as well, because all of your moved files will be owned by root. Not good.
You can try to remedy this by selecting your home folder in the Finder, and choose Get Info in the File menu. Click the triangle next to Ownership & Permissions and then change the owner to yourself (you may have to enter your password) and set your privileges to Read & Write. Then click the Apply to enclosed items... button, and click OK. This might screw some things up. I don't know, you'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable like Brad.
Now it's time to figure out your new directory's file path. Just remember, this is UNIX, not Mac OS 9. If you moved your stuff to a new volume that is not the boot volume, your drive won't be in the root directory, it will be in /Volumes/. So if your volume is Paul for instance, your file path isn't /Paul/, its /Volumes/Paul/. If you can't figure out your file path, just open Terminal (I know I said GUI, but this is simple enough) and drag your new home folder to the Terminal window. Boom, there's your file path. Write it down.
Once you have everything copied over and you've got your file path, log in as root. Do not touch anything. Drag your hard drive(s) from the Desktop to the right-hand side of the Dock. In the Dock, right- or control-click) on the drive containing your system install, and navigate to NetInfo Manager (once again, it is in /Applications/Utilities/) Open it up, and if necessary, authenticate your user as you did previously. Now, in the browser window, click on users and then your user's login. You will see a list of properties in the bottom pane that define characteristics about your user such as your icon or your real name. The property you want is called "home" and it is second from the bottom in the list. Its value will be a UNIX file path and read something like /Users/username/, with your login as the username. You want to change that to your new file path, which is in my case /Volumes/Jamos/ To do this, double click on the text that reads /Users/yourusername/ and enter in the new file path. Be absolutely sure that you have the case and such correct.
Now you must create an symbolic link in place of your old Home folder. If you don't feel like using the Terminal, then skip the next paragraph. Just be warned that browsing your files as root with the Finder could make some of your .DS_Store files be overwritten and therefore owned by root (which means when your normal user is logged in, the Finder will not be able to modify or overwrite them. That being said, if you would rather use the Finder, follow the next paragraph and skip the one following it.
If you want to risk .DS_Store oblivion, then being careful not to change window sizes, positions, views, etc, in the Finder go to the Users folder. If you're being cautious and want the old Home folder there as backup, then just rename it (or move it) so you can quickly reinstate it. Otherwise, just delete it.
If you do not wish to touch the evil that is the root Finder, right- or control-click on the hard drive with Mac OS X in the dock, and open up the Terminal (if it is not already running.) In the Terminal, type the following, sans quotes: "cd /Users/" Press return, and then (replacing "homedirectory" with the name of your home directory/login, and "renamedhomedirectory" to whatever name you want make sure you maintain the space and the order between the two) type the following to rename your original home folder: "mv homedirectory renamedhomedirectory". Alternatively, if you just want to erase your original home directory completely, type (sans quotes, and replacing homedirectory with the name of your home directory) "rm -rf homedirectory".
Right- or control-click on the hard drive with Mac OS X installed on it in the Dock, and navigate to wherever you left Cocktail. Click on the Files toolbar item, then click on the Links tab. Click the big button with the Terminal icon/alias badge, and select your new home folder (the item you want to create a symbolic link to.) Click Choose, and in the next view save it as your login name in /Users/. It must match the capitalization of your login (not your real name) exactly, or else it wont work.
Now it's time to say goodbye to root and login as your normal user. After doing that, if you used another volume for your home folder, you probably want to change permissions on the drive so that you can't rename it (which would lead to certain disaster as the OS simply sees your home folder disappear.) Click on the drive in the Finder and press command+i, or chose Get Info from the File menu. Click the triangle next to Ownership & Permissions and change the owner to yourself if you are not already the owner. You will be prompted to enter your password, do so and press return or click the OK button. Under the Group drop menu is a second Access drop menu, click it and select read only. Do the same for the Others drop menu. Now, change the owner to "system" and close the info window.
Congratulations, you're done! Your home folder is now where you want it. Enjoy, and if some stuff isn't working, don't blame me.
I think we are all on the same track. All and all, I like the direction of and am very happy with OS X's UI since 10.2. We finally have a nice balance and are on the right track.
Kickaha, You took my example literally. I was not suggesting using actual shape and form of familiar objects. I was referring to conceptual familiarity and expected results form an action.
Quote: "Show me a pad of paper with a spellchecker, for instance." Everyone understands that concept. When we want to spell check something we get a dictionary, in essence that is what a spell checker is. No one is confused by that.
However, do an action and have the OS do something else other then what you told it to do and we start inviting frustration and confusion.
I can't think of any examples of this from the OS at the moment, but here's some from apps: You know what happens when I drag a folder into the left hand column of iPhoto? It creates a new folder with a bunch of other folders, a file called AlbumData.xml, Last Import and what not plus it creates a folder containing aliases for each picture from my original folder. The only think I told it to do was to remember what photos I have inside this folder and to shown them to me when I click on that Album.
When I open iMovie, the first think it asks me is to save the file. What file? I don't have any file yet.
iPeon, maybe you should take a computer literacy class or something. Then you'd be able to grasp the concepts of files and folders etc.
Seriously, real-world objects are good in some cases, but like the HIG says you must be pragmatic about it. If any real-world object is confusing, you need to develop a new computer-specific object.
iPeon, I feel compelled to write. This is such a long and heady thread, but here goes...
Quote:
Originally posted by iPeon
Really? Where is your computer on top of? Where do you store your hard copy documents? Unless the physical universe as we know it has changed, the desktop metaphor will always apply. Why? Because you live in the physical universe.
The problem is EXACTLY with the Desktop metaphor. We do store a couple of documents here and there on our desktop. TRUE. But we keep the dozens/hundreds/thousands of document we use regularly in folders, in filing cabinets. The Desktop is a BAD metaphor to use for organising ALL our stuff.
That's why temporary things like Disk Images, and clippings, and downloaded stuff can be put on the Desktop, ready to file away or use and dispose of. That's why our HOME is such a good metaphor - with filing cabinets for documents, pics, music etc. I tell new users of X "Hey, that's your home. File _everything_ in it." From there on, they're organised, and importantly can easily retrieve things. "That word document i prepared last month? aha! that'd be in my home, in my documents folder."
Quote:
Originally posted by iPeon
Yes they do. That is not the disagreement. The disagreement is that the new OS designers are evolving the Mac away from it's basic concept. OS X is AWSOME, I'll say that, but in some ways it's also destroying the Mac's concept. The true cause for this isn't because we now have viruses, multi-users and so on nor is it because the computer has evolved into some strange animal. Please, gives us some credit!
They are evolving the Mac to fit in with current times. I won't bother detailing, look at other's posts in this thread. I have a feeling you haven't watched many new users on Win/OS9/X. Give them a Home folder any day. they'll thank you for it. The power of the 10.3 finder is that it hides clutter when you don't need it (ie 4 levels down now = 'your root' level), but still leaves power users to explore willy nilly.
Quote:
Originally posted by cowerd
The file system is not yet seperated from the interface. When a fully integrated and data-rich file system gets implemented I'll be the first one in the happy line, until then Apple is mixing metaphors to the users detriment.
And how exactly can they separate the file system from the interface? Like it or not, computers need to work with FILES. Users, surprise surprise, also need to work with FILES. They are filed away using a FILE SYSTEM. Panther is about as close to getting it right as you can go. Windows Explorer? Only good because people have been using it for 8 years, and are used to it. 10.2? Needs some explaining to new users, but makes sense once you get your head around it. Panther's tight integration of the "home" concept is exactly what's needed. Gottit? good...
Quote: "Show me a pad of paper with a spellchecker, for instance." Everyone understands that concept. When we want to spell check something we get a dictionary, in essence that is what a spell checker is. No one is confused by that.
Confused? No, but definitely not aided by any real world analogy.
I have never spell checked from a dictionary. You see, I
was an early adopter of computer technology. In elementary
school (dating myself here) I used an AppleII clone to type
and proof my reports. Later, I used a Mac Plus. At no point
did I ever sit down at a desk and write papers by hand.
I've never used a filing cabinet for more than hard copies
of health care benefits and such. The desk I'm typing this
from has no drawers and the rolling filing cabinets in my
office are empty. I've never owned a dictionary or
thesaurus. I?ve never used a non-electronic card catalog.
I?ve physically mailed a total of around 10 envelopes in my
life. None of these letters were for personal
correspondence. All of my bills are tracked and paid from a
web browser. I threw away my telephone books and don?t have
a land line.
What interface metaphor would be good for someone with my
background?
Seriously, this is an important issue in the field of
interface design. Computers have drastically changed office
work, school work, and life in general. Starting to emerge
are users for which ?real-world? metaphors are meaningless.
Or perhaps? not meaningless but a distraction rather than a
useful aid.
Hell, the concept of an ?index? is almost lost on today?s
youth. It used to be everyone in America used telephone
books. Now kids don?t even know what ?yellow pages? are.
Index? Why not just type in what you want and hit return?
The days of the virtual ?desktop? are numbered no matter
how logical the metaphor seems from our current perspective.
Does anyone else find it funny that we're sitting here debating intricacies of good UI design... yet no one has commented on the unreadably long word-count per line?
Doesn't matter how the finder behaves in comparison to the pain of scrolling horizontally to read each line of text.
The obvious reason? I only want to have one volume?
I don't want to have 3 different partitions, like some people do. I know in some ways it's better, but right now my install follows the KISS principle.
An interesting occurrence. A friend of mine whom I recently convinced to switch form a PC to a Mac was having some problems. He was downloding iChatAV. It would download but the download wasn't in the desktop. He had no idea where it was at.
"Are you sure you have Safari's preferences set to download to the desktop"
YES!!! I do!!!! Arrrr arghhhh.
"Dude! What happen to my Desktop Icon in the Dock, it use to have little windows now it looks like a regular folder." I had no Idea what he was talking about.
After an hour over the phone trying to figure this out I finally gave up and told him I would drop by today and see what was going on. When I saw it I busted up laughing.
Take a look at it for yourself what the problem was.
Comments
Originally posted by Kickaha
For an instance of the direct manipulation gone haywire, see IBM's UI experiments from 90-95 or so... they had this huge push to make everything *as close to real life objects as possible*... and it was a massive failure.
[snip]
Calls for 'real world' style direct manipulation are ultimately going to have to give way as what we produce on the computer bypasses what we're limited to in the physical world.
I feel compelled to pimp my mirror of the now-defunct Isys Information Architects' "Interface Hall of Shame". It covers the awful QuickTime 4 Player interface as well as two of IBM's projects: RealPhone and RealCD. Be sure to check the "In-Depth" section.
Originally posted by Spart
I should write a decent tutorial on moving your home folder around...it is quite easy (and doable with GUI.)
I assume you have mounted the home folder as a volume... the question is, how?
Originally posted by applenut
thats a mind**** right there..... the home folder is in the desktop and the desktop is within the home folder along with the hard drive which both are in.
It's all, an interpution in the space time continuum!
Originally posted by Paul
dude! how did you do that?! screw panther!
Heh. Looks like I may have to write that up...there's an article on the site of the guy who wrote Carbon Copy Cloner, but I don't like the way he does it. Too much stuff in the terminal and he doesn't point out some of the problems of just following his way (like, say, your keychain stops working.)
I know Brad will raise the obligatory hell, but my method involves logging in as root. To me, its okay as long as you can avoid opening Finder windows and such while logged in as root, so do the next best thing and shove your hard drives in the Dock and right click.
Originally posted by Barto
I assume you have mounted the home folder as a volume... the question is, how?
No I changed my home folder to a volume...you cannot mount folders.
As requested, here is the walk-through to moving your home folder:
_____________________
Moving a User's Home Folder, mostly via GUI
WARNING: When you are messing around with NetInfo Manager whilst logged in as root, you are just begging to do something nasty and irrevocable. Backup.
Once again. Backup, backup, then backup your backups. Why? Because you're moving all of your stuff around, your entire home folder, your work, your life, and there's a good chance that somewhere along the line something is going to get hosed. Also, be prepared to remove all of your handy little .DS_Store files that keep track of how your icons and such are organized if you chose the method of using the Finder, because there's a good chance that while logging in as root that they will become owned by the root. And when they're owned by the root, your user won't be able to change them.
First of all, if you want to stick to the GUI, you're going to need Cocktail. As one of its many nifty and free features, Cocktail has the ability to make symbolic links, without using a command line. These are the aliases of UNIX, and not totally unlike what you get by hitting cmd+L in the Finder. Mac OS aliases and symbolic links appear the same in the Finder, yet they are not. Mac OS aliases just aren't good enough for what we need to do.
To log in as root, you need to (of course) enable the root user. If you have already done so, then skip this paragraph. In your administrator account, open NetInfo Manager (it's in /Applications/Utilities/) Unless you are interested in reinstalling Mac OS X, don't mess around with anything you don't know about. It can only lead to trouble. Click on the Security menu and select the Authenticate... menu item. Type in your user's password, and press return or click OK. You will notice that some things that were disabled are now enabled, don't be tempted to play with them. Once again with the Security menu, select the Enable Root User... menu item. Give your root user a password, preferably one your friends don't know about, confirm it and then click OK or press return. Congratulations, you are now the all-powerful totalitarian dictator of your machine. Or the compassionate, self-elected yet pro-democracy president/prime minister. Whatever tickles your fancy.
Now it's time to copy your files, since they aren't going to move on their own. Time to pick a location: Do you want it on a separate volume? Do multiple people use your machine, and if so, do their home folders need to be moved as well? In my case, I am the only user on my machine, so I elected to move only my main user. I have a big volume going to waste (as on my machine, the system must be within the first 8GB of the drive, and its partition) so I decided to make a whole volume my new home folder. Now, there are inherent dangers in this. You can unmount your home directory, potentially causing a mild disaster. I haven't yet tried, so I don't know what happens. Probably something bad. Also, if you are on a multiuser setup, other users can click the little "Ignore Permissions on this Volume" checkbox in the Finder's Get Info. This means that none of your files are really secure, no matter how stringent you are with permissions. I chose to accept the danger.
So create a folder for your user, and copy everything in your home folder to it. There will probably be some files in your library that you can't read, oh well. You wanted to move your directory, that's just the way it is. Doing this as root is probably a bad idea as well, because all of your moved files will be owned by root. Not good.
You can try to remedy this by selecting your home folder in the Finder, and choose Get Info in the File menu. Click the triangle next to Ownership & Permissions and then change the owner to yourself (you may have to enter your password) and set your privileges to Read & Write. Then click the Apply to enclosed items... button, and click OK. This might screw some things up. I don't know, you'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable like Brad.
Now it's time to figure out your new directory's file path. Just remember, this is UNIX, not Mac OS 9. If you moved your stuff to a new volume that is not the boot volume, your drive won't be in the root directory, it will be in /Volumes/. So if your volume is Paul for instance, your file path isn't /Paul/, its /Volumes/Paul/. If you can't figure out your file path, just open Terminal (I know I said GUI, but this is simple enough) and drag your new home folder to the Terminal window. Boom, there's your file path. Write it down.
Once you have everything copied over and you've got your file path, log in as root. Do not touch anything. Drag your hard drive(s) from the Desktop to the right-hand side of the Dock. In the Dock, right- or control-click) on the drive containing your system install, and navigate to NetInfo Manager (once again, it is in /Applications/Utilities/) Open it up, and if necessary, authenticate your user as you did previously. Now, in the browser window, click on users and then your user's login. You will see a list of properties in the bottom pane that define characteristics about your user such as your icon or your real name. The property you want is called "home" and it is second from the bottom in the list. Its value will be a UNIX file path and read something like /Users/username/, with your login as the username. You want to change that to your new file path, which is in my case /Volumes/Jamos/ To do this, double click on the text that reads /Users/yourusername/ and enter in the new file path. Be absolutely sure that you have the case and such correct.
Now you must create an symbolic link in place of your old Home folder. If you don't feel like using the Terminal, then skip the next paragraph. Just be warned that browsing your files as root with the Finder could make some of your .DS_Store files be overwritten and therefore owned by root (which means when your normal user is logged in, the Finder will not be able to modify or overwrite them. That being said, if you would rather use the Finder, follow the next paragraph and skip the one following it.
If you want to risk .DS_Store oblivion, then being careful not to change window sizes, positions, views, etc, in the Finder go to the Users folder. If you're being cautious and want the old Home folder there as backup, then just rename it (or move it) so you can quickly reinstate it. Otherwise, just delete it.
If you do not wish to touch the evil that is the root Finder, right- or control-click on the hard drive with Mac OS X in the dock, and open up the Terminal (if it is not already running.) In the Terminal, type the following, sans quotes: "cd /Users/" Press return, and then (replacing "homedirectory" with the name of your home directory/login, and "renamedhomedirectory" to whatever name you want make sure you maintain the space and the order between the two) type the following to rename your original home folder: "mv homedirectory renamedhomedirectory". Alternatively, if you just want to erase your original home directory completely, type (sans quotes, and replacing homedirectory with the name of your home directory) "rm -rf homedirectory".
Right- or control-click on the hard drive with Mac OS X installed on it in the Dock, and navigate to wherever you left Cocktail. Click on the Files toolbar item, then click on the Links tab. Click the big button with the Terminal icon/alias badge, and select your new home folder (the item you want to create a symbolic link to.) Click Choose, and in the next view save it as your login name in /Users/. It must match the capitalization of your login (not your real name) exactly, or else it wont work.
Now it's time to say goodbye to root and login as your normal user. After doing that, if you used another volume for your home folder, you probably want to change permissions on the drive so that you can't rename it (which would lead to certain disaster as the OS simply sees your home folder disappear.) Click on the drive in the Finder and press command+i, or chose Get Info from the File menu. Click the triangle next to Ownership & Permissions and change the owner to yourself if you are not already the owner. You will be prompted to enter your password, do so and press return or click the OK button. Under the Group drop menu is a second Access drop menu, click it and select read only. Do the same for the Others drop menu. Now, change the owner to "system" and close the info window.
Congratulations, you're done! Your home folder is now where you want it. Enjoy, and if some stuff isn't working, don't blame me.
Originally posted by dfiler
Hefty dose of pragmatism please!
I think we are all on the same track. All and all, I like the direction of and am very happy with OS X's UI since 10.2. We finally have a nice balance and are on the right track.
Kickaha, You took my example literally. I was not suggesting using actual shape and form of familiar objects. I was referring to conceptual familiarity and expected results form an action.
Quote: "Show me a pad of paper with a spellchecker, for instance." Everyone understands that concept. When we want to spell check something we get a dictionary, in essence that is what a spell checker is. No one is confused by that.
However, do an action and have the OS do something else other then what you told it to do and we start inviting frustration and confusion.
I can't think of any examples of this from the OS at the moment, but here's some from apps: You know what happens when I drag a folder into the left hand column of iPhoto? It creates a new folder with a bunch of other folders, a file called AlbumData.xml, Last Import and what not plus it creates a folder containing aliases for each picture from my original folder. The only think I told it to do was to remember what photos I have inside this folder and to shown them to me when I click on that Album.
When I open iMovie, the first think it asks me is to save the file. What file? I don't have any file yet.
That's what I'm talking about.
I'd suspected you'd either moved your home folder to a different volume, or connected to it over a network.
Unfortunatly, I was hoping that you'd figured out how to make folders into volumes (without turning them into DMGs in the process).
Barto
Seriously, real-world objects are good in some cases, but like the HIG says you must be pragmatic about it. If any real-world object is confusing, you need to develop a new computer-specific object.
Barto
Originally posted by iPeon
Really? Where is your computer on top of? Where do you store your hard copy documents? Unless the physical universe as we know it has changed, the desktop metaphor will always apply. Why? Because you live in the physical universe.
The problem is EXACTLY with the Desktop metaphor. We do store a couple of documents here and there on our desktop. TRUE. But we keep the dozens/hundreds/thousands of document we use regularly in folders, in filing cabinets. The Desktop is a BAD metaphor to use for organising ALL our stuff.
That's why temporary things like Disk Images, and clippings, and downloaded stuff can be put on the Desktop, ready to file away or use and dispose of. That's why our HOME is such a good metaphor - with filing cabinets for documents, pics, music etc. I tell new users of X "Hey, that's your home. File _everything_ in it." From there on, they're organised, and importantly can easily retrieve things. "That word document i prepared last month? aha! that'd be in my home, in my documents folder."
Originally posted by iPeon
Yes they do. That is not the disagreement. The disagreement is that the new OS designers are evolving the Mac away from it's basic concept. OS X is AWSOME, I'll say that, but in some ways it's also destroying the Mac's concept. The true cause for this isn't because we now have viruses, multi-users and so on nor is it because the computer has evolved into some strange animal. Please, gives us some credit!
They are evolving the Mac to fit in with current times. I won't bother detailing, look at other's posts in this thread. I have a feeling you haven't watched many new users on Win/OS9/X. Give them a Home folder any day. they'll thank you for it. The power of the 10.3 finder is that it hides clutter when you don't need it (ie 4 levels down now = 'your root' level), but still leaves power users to explore willy nilly.
Originally posted by cowerd
The file system is not yet seperated from the interface. When a fully integrated and data-rich file system gets implemented I'll be the first one in the happy line, until then Apple is mixing metaphors to the users detriment.
And how exactly can they separate the file system from the interface? Like it or not, computers need to work with FILES. Users, surprise surprise, also need to work with FILES. They are filed away using a FILE SYSTEM. Panther is about as close to getting it right as you can go. Windows Explorer? Only good because people have been using it for 8 years, and are used to it. 10.2? Needs some explaining to new users, but makes sense once you get your head around it. Panther's tight integration of the "home" concept is exactly what's needed. Gottit? good...
Originally posted by iPeon
Quote: "Show me a pad of paper with a spellchecker, for instance." Everyone understands that concept. When we want to spell check something we get a dictionary, in essence that is what a spell checker is. No one is confused by that.
Confused? No, but definitely not aided by any real world analogy.
I have never spell checked from a dictionary. You see, I
was an early adopter of computer technology. In elementary
school (dating myself here) I used an AppleII clone to type
and proof my reports. Later, I used a Mac Plus. At no point
did I ever sit down at a desk and write papers by hand.
I've never used a filing cabinet for more than hard copies
of health care benefits and such. The desk I'm typing this
from has no drawers and the rolling filing cabinets in my
office are empty. I've never owned a dictionary or
thesaurus. I?ve never used a non-electronic card catalog.
I?ve physically mailed a total of around 10 envelopes in my
life. None of these letters were for personal
correspondence. All of my bills are tracked and paid from a
web browser. I threw away my telephone books and don?t have
a land line.
What interface metaphor would be good for someone with my
background?
Seriously, this is an important issue in the field of
interface design. Computers have drastically changed office
work, school work, and life in general. Starting to emerge
are users for which ?real-world? metaphors are meaningless.
Or perhaps? not meaningless but a distraction rather than a
useful aid.
Hell, the concept of an ?index? is almost lost on today?s
youth. It used to be everyone in America used telephone
books. Now kids don?t even know what ?yellow pages? are.
Index? Why not just type in what you want and hit return?
The days of the virtual ?desktop? are numbered no matter
how logical the metaphor seems from our current perspective.
Does anyone else find it funny that we're sitting here debating intricacies of good UI design... yet no one has commented on the unreadably long word-count per line?
Doesn't matter how the finder behaves in comparison to the pain of scrolling horizontally to read each line of text.
And how exactly can they separate the file system from the interface
iPhoto, iTunes. Or were y'all just not paying proper attention.
[spellchech spellcheck spell check there thats better]
Originally posted by Barto
I'd suspected you'd either moved your home folder to a different volume, or connected to it over a network.
That's exactly what I've done...
Originally posted by Barto
Unfortunatly, I was hoping that you'd figured out how to make folders into volumes (without turning them into DMGs in the process).
Why would you need to do that? Just use an existing volume and move all of your stuff...
Originally posted by Spart
Why would you need to do that?
The obvious reason? I only want to have one volume?
I don't want to have 3 different partitions, like some people do. I know in some ways it's better, but right now my install follows the KISS principle.
Originally posted by Barto
iPeon, maybe you should take a computer literacy class or something. Then you'd be able to grasp the concepts of files and folders etc.
I've been using Macs since 1984. Actually my first comp was the Lisa. I think I grasp the folder concept very well thank you.
"Are you sure you have Safari's preferences set to download to the desktop"
YES!!! I do!!!! Arrrr arghhhh.
"Dude! What happen to my Desktop Icon in the Dock, it use to have little windows now it looks like a regular folder." I had no Idea what he was talking about.
After an hour over the phone trying to figure this out I finally gave up and told him I would drop by today and see what was going on. When I saw it I busted up laughing.
Take a look at it for yourself what the problem was.
Originally posted by ChrisG
HHAAAHHAHAHALOLLOLOLOL Thats just to funny. I might regret this...but....How did he manage that?!?!
That's the thing, I have no idea. LMAO