Huh? I missed that part. what part of the argument went to K court?
As in Kobe not immediately coming out and saying he had sex with the girl is damning evidence against his defense. Given a typical celeb's access to legal advice, I'd say it was a calculated non-admittal.
Yes, I'm obviously condoning rape just because I have a Kobe fetish.
No...I'm just saying this girl's story gets weaker by the minute, and not by virtue of underhanded wheeling and dealing.
EDIT: Since what actually happened might not necessarily be black & white (Outrageous assertion, I know! Pun not intended either...), here are some other gray area scenarios to ponder:
What if she did say "no?" What if she said "no" repeatedly, then said "yes?" Is that necessarily coercion or just a good sales job? How many of us have gotten three "nos" and one "yes" before?
What if she gave him the Lewinsky treatment or made out with him for a while, then wanted to leave, only to have Kobe ask her to not to leave while holding onto her while she starts getting out of bed? What if she gave no indication of "no" or "yes?"
"No means no" is oversimplifying the situation to the extreme. Any woman could have a rough starf--k with a celeb and claim she did not consent afterward.
As in Kobe not immediately coming out and saying he had sex with the girl is damning evidence against his defense.
I never said it was damning evidence against his defense, I said it was a lie and that I consider him untrustworthy.
It will mean ****-all in court. But we're hardly the jury, now are we?
He claimed innocence (of the entire thing) and told us to forget it because "you know me", a false image he created for marketing purposes.
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Given a typical celeb's access to legal advice, I'd say it was a calculated non-admittal.
Of course.
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No...I'm just saying this girl's story gets weaker by the minute, and not by virtue of underhanded wheeling and dealing.
How does that make her story weaker? Depression issues make one more likely to falsely accuse someone of rape? It could just as easily make her story stronger.
If we can bring that up, how about superstar Kobe, millionaire at 17 getting anything he wants caught up in the moment when the unthinkable happens: a girl says "no"?
I don't think it's about hating women, necessarily, it's about the way we view sexual roles. Kobe is fine, men are supposed to **** anyone they can and women are just the whores. So he cheated on his wife, no big deal, happens all the time. But this girl tried out for American Idol, brazen hussy!
Yes, I'm obviously condoning rape just because I have a Kobe fetish.
that's not what i meant.
Quote:
No...I'm just saying this girl's story gets weaker by the minute, and not by virtue of underhanded wheeling and dealing.
Not weak at all if this doesn't come into court. maybe in the public opinion... not in the educated puplic opinion though.
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What if she did say "no?" What if she said "no" repeatedly, then said "yes?" Is that necessarily coercion or just a good sales job? How many of us have gotten three "nos" and one "yes" before?
What if she gave him the Lewinsky treatment or made out with him for a while, then wanted to leave, only to have Kobe ask her to not to leave while holding onto her while she starts getting out of bed? What if she gave no indication of "no" or "yes?"
"No means no" is oversimplifying the situation to the extreme. Any woman could have a rough starf--k with a celeb and claim she did not consent afterward.
if she said no after he started porkin. then yes. guilty or rama. proving that is a diff. matter. Is it me or did the DA have a miniscule chesire grin when he talks about the "physical evidence"? If photos of bruises consisitant with rape come out he is toast.
2 more questions.
is the aug. 6th thing just a everyone goes to court and the judge says "how do you plead?"then kobe says "not guilty"
or is this hearing before that hearing?
also,
did he or did he not say he was innocent of having sex before the adultry admission?
Not weak at all if this doesn't come into court. maybe in the public opinion... not in the educated puplic opinion though.
Right, because the educated are going to completely ignore how this girl is possibly an unstable, emotional basketcase (to a degree which requires medical attention) who brags about Kobe's schlong at parties.
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Is it me or did the DA have a miniscule chesire grin when he talks about the "physical evidence?"
The morning of the press conference, he looked completely as I would have expected...reluctant to take the case because he knew he'd be up against ridiculous odds. I don't see how anybody present would have mustered a smile given the seriousness of it all.
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did he or did he not say he was innocent of having sex before the adultry admission?
He never once publicly denied having sex with the girl.
Right, because the educated is going to completely ignore how this girl is possibly an unstable, emotional basketcase (to a degree which requires medical attention) who brags about Kobe's schlong at parties.
No the educated are not going to make that call until the facts of the case are in.
again. depression automatically makes her a liar how?
He denied the entire report and made no clarification as to what exactly he was talking about. This "you know me" stuff calls on the reputation he has created that was obviously a lie; him being the devoted husband (wearing hospital ID bracelet while playing), being the "exception to the rule".
Cheating husbands are trustworthy, 19-year-old girls are attention-seeking groupie whores.
Actual rape cases or rape lawsuits? Civil or criminal?
You wonder this kind of thing without backing any of it up because you continually have your ass handed to you when it comes to facts.
Or that they will be ignored and punished. Or that they will be stigmatized socially...
Do you want to say that women don't dramatically underreport rape cases or are you going to pull your usual whining victim bullshit?
An appeal to Goldie Hawn movies to prove a point. You have hit a new low.
That may be the most pathetic argument you have ever made. Ever. And that's saying a lot.
You are so devoid of a clue you will bring up Bette Midler to speak for you. Hilarious.
Michael Irvin of my beloved Dallas Cowboys sued a women for filing false charges against him. Sexual assault charges, no less. Google the name "Nina Shahravan".
Kobe won't get money, you're right, Kobe doesn't need money. Money is the last thing Kobe needs. But if this girl is found guilty of false allegations and defamation do you think it won't help to rehabilitate his image? It sure helped Irvin's. She spent time in jail and paid a fine.
oooooooh. That means nothing. Tell me what she called about then we'll talk.
Or you could bring up a Diane Keaton movie to prove your point!
Why shouldn't the .gov install cameras in your house to make sure you aren't a criminal?
Privacy, learn it, love it.
Calling on a falsified image to try to exonerate yourself of any involvement makes you untrustworthy. Staying ambiguous instead of giving answers in a case this high-profile and easy to parse makes you untrustworthy.
He could've easily said, "Look, I had sex with her but it was totally consensual and the rape part of it is bullshit." but no, he wanted to keep his crafted image. He's untrustworthy. That doesn't mean he's guilty, he's just untrustworthy.
"helps him commit adultery"
Amazing.
A drama queen how?
A celebrity chaser how?
What disturbance after being "dismissed from his room"?
I've read the report of her overdosing.
"bragging kinda"? What does that mean?
The "American Idol" defense is almost as pathetic as the First Wives Club defense.
Did a male friend see physical evidence of sexual assault at a party?
Your bitterness over having your ass handed to you in the other thread is endearing, it really is. Perhaps you would consider prison rape "intimate partner violence", but not anyone else I wouldn't think.
I can't believe you're older than me, it's frightening.
Tell me of another rape case against an athlete where it lasted this long without the whole thing coming apart? Hmm...
BUT SHE TRIED OUT FOR AMERICAN IDOL! GOLDIE HAWN!
--
Eugene:
Addressed above.
Wow, a pathetic new low for you. Could you toss anymore bullshit in the air?
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LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Speaking publicly for the first time since he was accused of sexual assault, Kobe Bryant denied the allegations and said he "would never do something like that."
Yeah, that's pretty ambigious.
As for the adultery, it isn't a crime and the interview does not say he declined to answer questions about it. Astonishingly you reply privacy, learn it, love it, and then complain that he doesn't freely offer private details about a legal act to defend himself against an accusation about an illegal act. You're a 100% pure hypocrite. His actions were at least in a private room at a private business. Her's was calling public police at a public university to go to a public hospital. You use public services which generate public records, then the public should be able to see it.
Next I didn't say he was trustworthy in a vacuum. I said he was as trustworthy as the accuser.
My ass handed to me with facts huh? If you can stay on topic, I'm sure the facts support me fine. You want to disprove a generality with an extreme, you are welcome to congratulate yourself and declare yourself right all day.
You are doing the same thing here as in the other thread. You are saying she can't be a gold digger because....rape is underreported. You haven't proven crap nor do I worry about your "facts" because one is not connected to the other. Clear on that yet? Rape reporting rates has nothing to do with this woman, her character, and her motivations. I haven't read aboat a crime yet that wasn't underreported.
You haven't pointed to crap yet. I've given links to Kobe's statement, and reports of the suicide attempts. And now this...
No the educated are not going to make that call until the facts of the case are in.
again. depression automatically makes her a liar how?
Who said she was a automatically a big fat liar? Combined with the various other morsels we have, however, it does raise doubts. I mean, are you more inclined to believe a girl who goes straight to the police or one who *is* an emotional wreck who brags about Kobe's penis? If you think the educated public will and should ignore that, you're out of your mind. Nothing should be ignored. Every possible shred of information should at least be uncovered. Whether that stuff can be used in the courtroom is for the judge to decide.
Astonishingly you reply privacy, learn it, love it, and then complain that he doesn't freely offer private details about a legal act to defend himself against an accusation about an illegal act. You're a 100% pure hypocrite.
Revealing what happened the night of the incident is not at all like revealing something that happened 4 months before when Kobe was still in LA playing basketball. Apples & Oranges.
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Her's was calling public police at a public university to go to a public hospital. You use public services which generate public records, then the public should be able to see it.
That is some very simplistic logic. Your medical records are available to doctors at public hospitals.... should I use your childlike vapid argument to go in and say "Give me his medical records since birth, this is a PUBLIC HOSPITAL!"?
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Attempts suicide twice
What does that matter?
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Next I didn't say he was trustworthy in a vacuum. I said he was as trustworthy as the accuser.
I disagree at this point. I don't equate depression with being a liar, though.
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My ass handed to me with facts huh? If you can stay on topic, I'm sure the facts support me fine. You want to disprove a generality with an extreme, you are welcome to congratulate yourself and declare yourself right all day.
What facts support which point? You're the one who brought up DOJ/male rape, don't whine at me for not staying on topic.
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You are saying she can't be a gold digger because....rape is underreported.
Am I?
Please show me where I said she couldn't be a gold digger because rape is underreported. Please please please.
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Doesn't she sound like the victim?
We don't know a damned word she said, how can we know what she sounded like? And yet again the "kinda" is left of the "she bragged about it kinda". Not sensational enough! Can't let that little whore get away with this!
I also like how you ignore the last part of the article. All depends on which friends you want to believe, eh?
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Michael Irvin may have sued and cleared his reputation, but affording the accused their innocence would avoid the suit altogether.
Explain to me what that is supposed to mean. Please.
If you think the educated public will and should ignore that, you're out of your mind.
I would hope the educated public will ignore arguments that aren't true.
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Nothing should be ignored. Every possible shred of information should at least be uncovered. Whether that stuff can be used in the courtroom is for the judge to decide.
Nothing of substance should be ignored, I agree.
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You don't know. I don't know. Does it mean absolutely nothing?
You just put it out there, leaving everyone else to draw conclusions. I asked you what it meant, I'd like to hear your interpretation on what it could mean.
That she didn't go "straight to" the police is one.
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And atypical aspects of her life should be ignored... Gotcha.
So it's "atypical" now. Moving the goalposts.
Everything that has bearing on the case should be examined, absolutely. I haven't seen anyone make the argument that her past depression has anything to do with anything. They simply say it and leave it.
I mean, are you more inclined to believe a girl who goes straight to the police or one who *is* an emotional wreck who brags about Kobe's penis? If you think the educated public will and should ignore that, you're out of your mind. Nothing should be ignored. Every possible shred of information should at least be uncovered. Whether that stuff can be used in the courtroom is for the judge to decide.
And just raped woman don't always behaved the same way. they respond in ways that are all over the board which would explain her comments. Her bragging could be the residue of a collision between, depression, shock, anger and shame.
Tip: Skip jury duty.
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I would hope the educated public will ignore arguments that aren't true. - groverat
Revealing what happened the night of the incident is not at all like revealing something that happened 4 months before when Kobe was still in LA playing basketball. Apples & Oranges.
That is some very simplistic logic. Your medical records are available to doctors at public hospitals.... should I use your childlike vapid argument to go in and say "Give me his medical records since birth, this is a PUBLIC HOSPITAL!"?
What does that matter?
I disagree at this point. I don't equate depression with being a liar, though.
What facts support which point? You're the one who brought up DOJ/male rape, don't whine at me for not staying on topic.
Am I?
Please show me where I said she couldn't be a gold digger because rape is underreported. Please please please.
We don't know a damned word she said, how can we know what she sounded like? And yet again the "kinda" is left of the "she bragged about it kinda". Not sensational enough! Can't let that little whore get away with this!
I also like how you ignore the last part of the article. All depends on which friends you want to believe, eh?
Explain to me what that is supposed to mean. Please.
Apple and oranges, how about legal and illegal for apples and oranges. Likewise revealing private legal acts should not be necessary to deny illegal ones. He was asked point blank if he sexually assaulted her and said no he would never do something like that. In Groverat's world, this is an ambigious statement. Finally prior history is relevent when accusing others. What people do to themselves is fine but when you accuse someone, you are starting an investigation that involves both parties.
Likewise your argument about the public hospital misses the point. You aren't a prosecuter, and I'm not making a claim against you. If I claimed you raped my child and my medical records showed a history of dementia and repeated calls related to it, you bet your bottom I think that relevent and if I publicly name you as the accuser, then I would expect you to publicly bring tht forth as well.
Here is what you said regarding gold-digging and reporting...
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Couple that with the chorus of "gold-digging whore!" at first mention of the case from across the nation and its little wonder rape victims even bother.
Seems pretty clear to me. All rape underreported because this woman could be a gold digger.
And next time you don't need all those pleases, a with suger on top will be sufficient.
And lastly as for what my statement about Michael Irvin meant. He wouldn't have had to sue to get his reputation cleared if sexual assault weren't a crime where you are presumed guilty and where one word (no) can determine whether you are a criminal or not.
Apple and oranges, how about legal and illegal for apples and oranges.
What did she do that was illegal?
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Finally prior history is relevent when accusing others. What people do to themselves is fine but when you accuse someone, you are starting an investigation that involves both parties.
Prior history of what is relevant when accusing others?
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If I claimed you raped my child and my medical records showed a history of dementia and repeated calls related to it, you bet your bottom I think that relevent and if I publicly name you as the accuser, then I would expect you to publicly bring tht forth as well.
You have absolutely no idea if those calls are related to "dementia". I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that you don't even know what "dementia" is.
You have no idea what those calls were about and nothing but your own internal processes to say they are related to "dementia".
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Here is what you said regarding gold-digging and reporting...Couple that with the chorus of "gold-digging whore!" at first mention of the case from across the nation and its little wonder rape victims even bother.Seems pretty clear to me. All rape underreported because this woman could be a gold digger.
That doesn't even make sense.
My statement referred to how difficult rape is to prove coupled with societal stigma of the accuser (not to mention physical intimidation) makes me wonder why they even bother to report it. My words.
Does that mean "This woman can't be a gold-digger because rape is underreported."? Absolutely not. Your last sentence in that quote doesn't even make sense.
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And lastly as for what my statement about Michael Irvin meant. He wouldn't have had to sue to get his reputation cleared if sexual assault weren't a crime where you are presumed guilty and where one word (no) can determine whether you are a criminal or not.
I'm not seeing your argument here; are you saying that people shouldn't be so quick to judge people accused of sexual assault or(and?) that the definition of sexual assault should be legally changed to allow for a few "no"s?
Comments
in your Kangaroo court,
Huh? I missed that part. what part of the argument went to K court?
Originally posted by keyboardf12
Huh? I missed that part. what part of the argument went to K court?
As in Kobe not immediately coming out and saying he had sex with the girl is damning evidence against his defense. Given a typical celeb's access to legal advice, I'd say it was a calculated non-admittal.
And now some more fuel for this fire.
Ever thought that being depressed, her self esteem was really really low?
And mr basketball thought he could have his way?
Hmm..I thought this stuff isn't going to be allowed into the courtroom anyway...
No...I'm just saying this girl's story gets weaker by the minute, and not by virtue of underhanded wheeling and dealing.
EDIT: Since what actually happened might not necessarily be black & white (Outrageous assertion, I know! Pun not intended either...), here are some other gray area scenarios to ponder:
What if she did say "no?" What if she said "no" repeatedly, then said "yes?" Is that necessarily coercion or just a good sales job? How many of us have gotten three "nos" and one "yes" before?
What if she gave him the Lewinsky treatment or made out with him for a while, then wanted to leave, only to have Kobe ask her to not to leave while holding onto her while she starts getting out of bed? What if she gave no indication of "no" or "yes?"
"No means no" is oversimplifying the situation to the extreme. Any woman could have a rough starf--k with a celeb and claim she did not consent afterward.
As in Kobe not immediately coming out and saying he had sex with the girl is damning evidence against his defense.
I never said it was damning evidence against his defense, I said it was a lie and that I consider him untrustworthy.
It will mean ****-all in court. But we're hardly the jury, now are we?
He claimed innocence (of the entire thing) and told us to forget it because "you know me", a false image he created for marketing purposes.
Given a typical celeb's access to legal advice, I'd say it was a calculated non-admittal.
Of course.
No...I'm just saying this girl's story gets weaker by the minute, and not by virtue of underhanded wheeling and dealing.
How does that make her story weaker? Depression issues make one more likely to falsely accuse someone of rape? It could just as easily make her story stronger.
If we can bring that up, how about superstar Kobe, millionaire at 17 getting anything he wants caught up in the moment when the unthinkable happens: a girl says "no"?
I don't think it's about hating women, necessarily, it's about the way we view sexual roles. Kobe is fine, men are supposed to **** anyone they can and women are just the whores. So he cheated on his wife, no big deal, happens all the time. But this girl tried out for American Idol, brazen hussy!
Yes, I'm obviously condoning rape just because I have a Kobe fetish.
that's not what i meant.
No...I'm just saying this girl's story gets weaker by the minute, and not by virtue of underhanded wheeling and dealing.
Not weak at all if this doesn't come into court. maybe in the public opinion... not in the educated puplic opinion though.
What if she did say "no?" What if she said "no" repeatedly, then said "yes?" Is that necessarily coercion or just a good sales job? How many of us have gotten three "nos" and one "yes" before?
What if she gave him the Lewinsky treatment or made out with him for a while, then wanted to leave, only to have Kobe ask her to not to leave while holding onto her while she starts getting out of bed? What if she gave no indication of "no" or "yes?"
"No means no" is oversimplifying the situation to the extreme. Any woman could have a rough starf--k with a celeb and claim she did not consent afterward.
if she said no after he started porkin. then yes. guilty or rama. proving that is a diff. matter. Is it me or did the DA have a miniscule chesire grin when he talks about the "physical evidence"? If photos of bruises consisitant with rape come out he is toast.
2 more questions.
is the aug. 6th thing just a everyone goes to court and the judge says "how do you plead?"then kobe says "not guilty"
or is this hearing before that hearing?
also,
did he or did he not say he was innocent of having sex before the adultry admission?
and is there a link to this espn thing?
Not weak at all if this doesn't come into court. maybe in the public opinion... not in the educated puplic opinion though.
Right, because the educated are going to completely ignore how this girl is possibly an unstable, emotional basketcase (to a degree which requires medical attention) who brags about Kobe's schlong at parties.
Is it me or did the DA have a miniscule chesire grin when he talks about the "physical evidence?"
The morning of the press conference, he looked completely as I would have expected...reluctant to take the case because he knew he'd be up against ridiculous odds. I don't see how anybody present would have mustered a smile given the seriousness of it all.
did he or did he not say he was innocent of having sex before the adultry admission?
He never once publicly denied having sex with the girl.
Right, because the educated is going to completely ignore how this girl is possibly an unstable, emotional basketcase (to a degree which requires medical attention) who brags about Kobe's schlong at parties.
No the educated are not going to make that call until the facts of the case are in.
again. depression automatically makes her a liar how?
Originally posted by groverat
trumptman:
He denied the entire report and made no clarification as to what exactly he was talking about. This "you know me" stuff calls on the reputation he has created that was obviously a lie; him being the devoted husband (wearing hospital ID bracelet while playing), being the "exception to the rule".
Cheating husbands are trustworthy, 19-year-old girls are attention-seeking groupie whores.
Actual rape cases or rape lawsuits? Civil or criminal?
You wonder this kind of thing without backing any of it up because you continually have your ass handed to you when it comes to facts.
Or that they will be ignored and punished. Or that they will be stigmatized socially...
Do you want to say that women don't dramatically underreport rape cases or are you going to pull your usual whining victim bullshit?
An appeal to Goldie Hawn movies to prove a point. You have hit a new low.
That may be the most pathetic argument you have ever made. Ever. And that's saying a lot.
You are so devoid of a clue you will bring up Bette Midler to speak for you. Hilarious.
Michael Irvin of my beloved Dallas Cowboys sued a women for filing false charges against him. Sexual assault charges, no less. Google the name "Nina Shahravan".
Kobe won't get money, you're right, Kobe doesn't need money. Money is the last thing Kobe needs. But if this girl is found guilty of false allegations and defamation do you think it won't help to rehabilitate his image? It sure helped Irvin's. She spent time in jail and paid a fine.
oooooooh. That means nothing. Tell me what she called about then we'll talk.
Or you could bring up a Diane Keaton movie to prove your point!
Why shouldn't the .gov install cameras in your house to make sure you aren't a criminal?
Privacy, learn it, love it.
Calling on a falsified image to try to exonerate yourself of any involvement makes you untrustworthy. Staying ambiguous instead of giving answers in a case this high-profile and easy to parse makes you untrustworthy.
He could've easily said, "Look, I had sex with her but it was totally consensual and the rape part of it is bullshit." but no, he wanted to keep his crafted image. He's untrustworthy. That doesn't mean he's guilty, he's just untrustworthy.
"helps him commit adultery"
Amazing.
A drama queen how?
A celebrity chaser how?
What disturbance after being "dismissed from his room"?
I've read the report of her overdosing.
"bragging kinda"? What does that mean?
The "American Idol" defense is almost as pathetic as the First Wives Club defense.
Did a male friend see physical evidence of sexual assault at a party?
Your bitterness over having your ass handed to you in the other thread is endearing, it really is. Perhaps you would consider prison rape "intimate partner violence", but not anyone else I wouldn't think.
I can't believe you're older than me, it's frightening.
Tell me of another rape case against an athlete where it lasted this long without the whole thing coming apart? Hmm...
BUT SHE TRIED OUT FOR AMERICAN IDOL! GOLDIE HAWN!
--
Eugene:
Addressed above.
Wow, a pathetic new low for you. Could you toss anymore bullshit in the air?
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Speaking publicly for the first time since he was accused of sexual assault, Kobe Bryant denied the allegations and said he "would never do something like that."
Yeah, that's pretty ambigious.
As for the adultery, it isn't a crime and the interview does not say he declined to answer questions about it. Astonishingly you reply privacy, learn it, love it, and then complain that he doesn't freely offer private details about a legal act to defend himself against an accusation about an illegal act. You're a 100% pure hypocrite. His actions were at least in a private room at a private business. Her's was calling public police at a public university to go to a public hospital. You use public services which generate public records, then the public should be able to see it.
Attempts suicide twice
Next I didn't say he was trustworthy in a vacuum. I said he was as trustworthy as the accuser.
My ass handed to me with facts huh? If you can stay on topic, I'm sure the facts support me fine. You want to disprove a generality with an extreme, you are welcome to congratulate yourself and declare yourself right all day.
You are doing the same thing here as in the other thread. You are saying she can't be a gold digger because....rape is underreported. You haven't proven crap nor do I worry about your "facts" because one is not connected to the other. Clear on that yet? Rape reporting rates has nothing to do with this woman, her character, and her motivations. I haven't read aboat a crime yet that wasn't underreported.
You haven't pointed to crap yet. I've given links to Kobe's statement, and reports of the suicide attempts. And now this...
Accuser bragged
Doesn't she sound like the victim?
Michael Irvin may have sued and cleared his reputation, but affording the accused their innocence would avoid the suit altogether.
More later...
Nick
Originally posted by keyboardf12
No the educated are not going to make that call until the facts of the case are in.
again. depression automatically makes her a liar how?
Who said she was a automatically a big fat liar? Combined with the various other morsels we have, however, it does raise doubts. I mean, are you more inclined to believe a girl who goes straight to the police or one who *is* an emotional wreck who brags about Kobe's penis? If you think the educated public will and should ignore that, you're out of your mind. Nothing should be ignored. Every possible shred of information should at least be uncovered. Whether that stuff can be used in the courtroom is for the judge to decide.
Astonishingly you reply privacy, learn it, love it, and then complain that he doesn't freely offer private details about a legal act to defend himself against an accusation about an illegal act. You're a 100% pure hypocrite.
Revealing what happened the night of the incident is not at all like revealing something that happened 4 months before when Kobe was still in LA playing basketball. Apples & Oranges.
Her's was calling public police at a public university to go to a public hospital. You use public services which generate public records, then the public should be able to see it.
That is some very simplistic logic. Your medical records are available to doctors at public hospitals.... should I use your childlike vapid argument to go in and say "Give me his medical records since birth, this is a PUBLIC HOSPITAL!"?
Attempts suicide twice
What does that matter?
Next I didn't say he was trustworthy in a vacuum. I said he was as trustworthy as the accuser.
I disagree at this point. I don't equate depression with being a liar, though.
My ass handed to me with facts huh? If you can stay on topic, I'm sure the facts support me fine. You want to disprove a generality with an extreme, you are welcome to congratulate yourself and declare yourself right all day.
What facts support which point? You're the one who brought up DOJ/male rape, don't whine at me for not staying on topic.
You are saying she can't be a gold digger because....rape is underreported.
Am I?
Please show me where I said she couldn't be a gold digger because rape is underreported. Please please please.
Doesn't she sound like the victim?
We don't know a damned word she said, how can we know what she sounded like? And yet again the "kinda" is left of the "she bragged about it kinda". Not sensational enough! Can't let that little whore get away with this!
I also like how you ignore the last part of the article. All depends on which friends you want to believe, eh?
Michael Irvin may have sued and cleared his reputation, but affording the accused their innocence would avoid the suit altogether.
Explain to me what that is supposed to mean. Please.
What does that matter?
You don't know. I don't know. Does it mean absolutely nothing?
I mean, are you more inclined to believe a girl who goes straight to the police or one who *is* an emotional wreck who brags about Kobe's penis?
The incident was June 30th. Kobe was brought in on July 4th.
click
Seems likely that it was even before that because they went through a series of interviews and a review of the physical evidence and a meeting between the DA and investigators. The Judge then ordered the case sealed.
If you think the educated public will and should ignore that, you're out of your mind.
I would hope the educated public will ignore arguments that aren't true.
Nothing should be ignored. Every possible shred of information should at least be uncovered. Whether that stuff can be used in the courtroom is for the judge to decide.
Nothing of substance should be ignored, I agree.
You don't know. I don't know. Does it mean absolutely nothing?
You just put it out there, leaving everyone else to draw conclusions. I asked you what it meant, I'd like to hear your interpretation on what it could mean.
I would hope the educated public will ignore arguments that aren't true.
Like what?
Nothing of substance should be ignored, I agree.
And atypical aspects of her life should be ignored... Gotcha.
Like what?
That she didn't go "straight to" the police is one.
And atypical aspects of her life should be ignored... Gotcha.
So it's "atypical" now. Moving the goalposts.
Everything that has bearing on the case should be examined, absolutely. I haven't seen anyone make the argument that her past depression has anything to do with anything. They simply say it and leave it.
I mean, are you more inclined to believe a girl who goes straight to the police or one who *is* an emotional wreck who brags about Kobe's penis? If you think the educated public will and should ignore that, you're out of your mind. Nothing should be ignored. Every possible shred of information should at least be uncovered. Whether that stuff can be used in the courtroom is for the judge to decide.
And just raped woman don't always behaved the same way. they respond in ways that are all over the board which would explain her comments. Her bragging could be the residue of a collision between, depression, shock, anger and shame.
Tip: Skip jury duty.
I would hope the educated public will ignore arguments that aren't true. - groverat
Agreed.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/interne....ap/index.html
Web site id's wrong woman.
Originally posted by groverat
trumptman:
Revealing what happened the night of the incident is not at all like revealing something that happened 4 months before when Kobe was still in LA playing basketball. Apples & Oranges.
That is some very simplistic logic. Your medical records are available to doctors at public hospitals.... should I use your childlike vapid argument to go in and say "Give me his medical records since birth, this is a PUBLIC HOSPITAL!"?
What does that matter?
I disagree at this point. I don't equate depression with being a liar, though.
What facts support which point? You're the one who brought up DOJ/male rape, don't whine at me for not staying on topic.
Am I?
Please show me where I said she couldn't be a gold digger because rape is underreported. Please please please.
We don't know a damned word she said, how can we know what she sounded like? And yet again the "kinda" is left of the "she bragged about it kinda". Not sensational enough! Can't let that little whore get away with this!
I also like how you ignore the last part of the article. All depends on which friends you want to believe, eh?
Explain to me what that is supposed to mean. Please.
Apple and oranges, how about legal and illegal for apples and oranges. Likewise revealing private legal acts should not be necessary to deny illegal ones. He was asked point blank if he sexually assaulted her and said no he would never do something like that. In Groverat's world, this is an ambigious statement. Finally prior history is relevent when accusing others. What people do to themselves is fine but when you accuse someone, you are starting an investigation that involves both parties.
Likewise your argument about the public hospital misses the point. You aren't a prosecuter, and I'm not making a claim against you. If I claimed you raped my child and my medical records showed a history of dementia and repeated calls related to it, you bet your bottom I think that relevent and if I publicly name you as the accuser, then I would expect you to publicly bring tht forth as well.
Here is what you said regarding gold-digging and reporting...
Couple that with the chorus of "gold-digging whore!" at first mention of the case from across the nation and its little wonder rape victims even bother.
Seems pretty clear to me. All rape underreported because this woman could be a gold digger.
And next time you don't need all those pleases, a with suger on top will be sufficient.
And lastly as for what my statement about Michael Irvin meant. He wouldn't have had to sue to get his reputation cleared if sexual assault weren't a crime where you are presumed guilty and where one word (no) can determine whether you are a criminal or not.
Nick
Apple and oranges, how about legal and illegal for apples and oranges.
What did she do that was illegal?
Finally prior history is relevent when accusing others. What people do to themselves is fine but when you accuse someone, you are starting an investigation that involves both parties.
Prior history of what is relevant when accusing others?
If I claimed you raped my child and my medical records showed a history of dementia and repeated calls related to it, you bet your bottom I think that relevent and if I publicly name you as the accuser, then I would expect you to publicly bring tht forth as well.
You have absolutely no idea if those calls are related to "dementia". I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that you don't even know what "dementia" is.
You have no idea what those calls were about and nothing but your own internal processes to say they are related to "dementia".
Here is what you said regarding gold-digging and reporting...Couple that with the chorus of "gold-digging whore!" at first mention of the case from across the nation and its little wonder rape victims even bother.Seems pretty clear to me. All rape underreported because this woman could be a gold digger.
That doesn't even make sense.
My statement referred to how difficult rape is to prove coupled with societal stigma of the accuser (not to mention physical intimidation) makes me wonder why they even bother to report it. My words.
Does that mean "This woman can't be a gold-digger because rape is underreported."? Absolutely not. Your last sentence in that quote doesn't even make sense.
And lastly as for what my statement about Michael Irvin meant. He wouldn't have had to sue to get his reputation cleared if sexual assault weren't a crime where you are presumed guilty and where one word (no) can determine whether you are a criminal or not.
I'm not seeing your argument here; are you saying that people shouldn't be so quick to judge people accused of sexual assault or(and?) that the definition of sexual assault should be legally changed to allow for a few "no"s?